Bit off topic... court whilst pregnant

[Jamiesmummy22]

Ok so not sure where to post this... basically my ex boyfriend (not baby’s father) brutally assaulted me in front of my young son last December leaving me with injuries requiring hospital treatment and a few weeks off work with a swollen face from where I was punched, bad tendon and nerve damage in my hand from pushing him off me whilst he was trying to strangle and bite me. He went on the run and police got him a few days after... he pleaded not guilty and stupidly the courts granted him bail until trial earlier this year... which he breached his bail conditions and failed to show for. A second court date was made whils he again breached and failed to show. He went on the run again for 6 months set up a new life with his new girlfriend... fortunately he was caught just a few days ago and went to court and it was decided he be held in prison until trial at end of November. I will be around 18 weeks pregnant then and a bit worried and stressed about being interrogated by his lawyer. There is 2 witnesses to this case 3 including myself. I’m wondering if anyone has had any experience of attending court as a witness whilst pregnant? A friend had said I may not need to go with me being pregnant and putting extra stress on the baby etc anyone know if this is true? I don’t mind going and if I have to I have to but if it can be avoided, it’s probably better for the baby. It was obviously a very traumatic time and I did suffer from with really bad anxiety/panic attacks after the assault for months and was put on medication, it’s only in the last few months I have overcome all this and began to move forward. Any advice would be helpful x

 

[IchigoMewMew]

I've not been a witness but I've been on a jury, the staff seemed very kind and sensitive during the trial. There is usually a curtain around the witness box so you can't see the defendant and they empty the court before you enter and leave. One of my cases there was a very heavily pregnant police office giving evidence, they let her sit down and there was a jug of water there. If you're really not feeling up to giving evidence in person let them know as soon as you can I think they can arrange to do it via video. Also another thing to bear in mind that although he's not on bail if he has any family members attending they will usually enter the court building through the same entrance, you may not be able to avoid everyone you may not want to come face ti face with. We found it quite awkward as jurors having to walk past our defendant and his (scary looking!) family to get into the court

 

[Emsabub]

I’m not due to be a witness but I’m also in court at 31 weeks pregnant for a different reason. My ex is making up horrible lies about me to try and see our daughter more & I’ll need to put my point across and all that. It means I’m being put in contact with a specialist midwife I don’t need because of new baby, it’s nothing to do with this one but dragging an unborn child into the situation you have nothing to do with is really making us angry.
Like ichigo said I’ve heard you can ask to do it via video link, you have that right surely I’d think?
Good luck, hope all goes well

 

[Jamiesmummy22]

I've not been a witness but I've been on a jury, the staff seemed very kind and sensitive during the trial. There is usually a curtain around the witness box so you can't see the defendant and they empty the court before you enter and leave. One of my cases there was a very heavily pregnant police office giving evidence, they let her sit down and there was a jug of water there. If you're really not feeling up to giving evidence in person let them know as soon as you can I think they can arrange to do it via video. Also another thing to bear in mind that although he's not on bail if he has any family members attending they will usually enter the court building through the same entrance, you may not be able to avoid everyone you may not want to come face ti face with. We found it quite awkward as jurors having to walk past our defendant and his (scary looking!) family to get into the court

Thanks for your reply. At court last time when he never showed they did say there would be a screen so I couldn’t see him but he could see me... apparently he has to be able to see me. This creeps me out! that’s a good point that I never really gave it a thought about bumping into his family. I think I will speak to the procurator fiscal or victim support about it and see what’s best to do maybe this video evidence would be an option.

 

[Jamiesmummy22]

I’m not due to be a witness but I’m also in court at 31 weeks pregnant for a different reason. My ex is making up horrible lies about me to try and see our daughter more & I’ll need to put my point across and all that. It means I’m being put in contact with a specialist midwife I don’t need because of new baby, it’s nothing to do with this one but dragging an unborn child into the situation you have nothing to do with is really making us angry.
Like ichigo said I’ve heard you can ask to do it via video link, you have that right surely I’d think?
Good luck, hope all goes well

Oh that doesn’t sound good, sorry to hear that. It’s extra stress you could do without. Sorry to hear that. I can totally understand why you are really angry that doesn’t seem right at all dragging your unborn child into a situation that’s nothing to do with him or her. Thank you I will ask about the video evidence. Thanks hope all goes well for your court case too.

 

[DobbyForever]

I am going to preface this with I am not a lawyer. I am just a multiple time DV survivor and have been in and out of civil, criminal, and family court because my last two exes were deplorable, narcissistic psychopaths. I am also in the bay in CA because local laws can be super different. ETA: just realized you said whilst, and I think that’s a European thing so my legal advice/how courts work are probably entirely different. Sorry!

If you want anything that happened to you considered, you have to go. Unfortunately, if you do not then any related declarations or police reports can get thrown out on hearsay. Especially if the cops who did the reports are not called, but even then your testimony heavily outweighs theirs because they didn’t witness the actual event. Same with any nurses or doctors who treated you.

I have high anxiety as a result of stress my mom had when pregnant. I expressed my worry about this to my gyn, and she assured me this only occurs when there is extreme stress for prolonged periods of time. My mom was abused during her pregnancy, and like mother like daughter so was I. My son was a low birth weight (can be associated with IPV) and is 15m old exhibiting signs of trauma from what little interaction he has had with his dad.

Now, the judge and prosecutor will protect you. You are a cooperative witness, so all that badgering you see on tv will not happen to you. Lawyers have to ask and get permission to do that. It’s literally called asking to treat the witness as hostile. Otherwise, not allowed.

It will still suck. I would reach out to a local domestic violence group to arrange for an advocate to go with you. They will escort you to the court, they are allowed to sit with you on the stand, and they can provide support afterwards as well. They cannot speak for your in the court, but they can literally hold your hand through the whole thing. They also are trained to do simple things like stand literally so you don’t see your ex in the hallway.

If you choose to go, consider writing a victim statement in lieu of testifying. You have a right to make a statement. You can say your piece and leave. I found that very therapeutic.

The choice is hard and yours to make. If it were me I would ask:
1. Is my testimony the difference between him getting the consequences he should?
2. Is my testimony going to protect myself and my baby? (Particularly is there already a restraining order in place? For how long? And keep in mind if you have a CRIMINAL not CIVIL restraining order, if his criminal charges are dropped then so is your restraining order)

I am so sorry for all you are going through. Stay strong. If you ever need to talk feel free to pm me

 

[DobbyForever]

Also if you cannot find an advocate to go (I ran into this twice), you can explain this to security when you first enter. They will ask you to hang around the security check (still awkward when people roll by but usually the sight of multiple sheriffs keeps the peace), and they will walk you to the court room.

Additionally witnesses cannot be present in court when another witness is testifying. But otherwise it is open. You can ask for an escort to the door if you need it. And if they dismiss everyone all at once they typically send them in a staggered fashion when a DVRO is involved

I have seen signs about testifying remotely using phones or video so you could definitely ask

 

[Jamiesmummy22]

I am going to preface this with I am not a lawyer. I am just a multiple time DV survivor and have been in and out of civil, criminal, and family court because my last two exes were deplorable, narcissistic psychopaths. I am also in the bay in CA because local laws can be super different. ETA: just realized you said whilst, and I think that’s a European thing so my legal advice/how courts work are probably entirely different. Sorry!

If you want anything that happened to you considered, you have to go. Unfortunately, if you do not then any related declarations or police reports can get thrown out on hearsay. Especially if the cops who did the reports are not called, but even then your testimony heavily outweighs theirs because they didn’t witness the actual event. Same with any nurses or doctors who treated you.

I have high anxiety as a result of stress my mom had when pregnant. I expressed my worry about this to my gyn, and she assured me this only occurs when there is extreme stress for prolonged periods of time. My mom was abused during her pregnancy, and like mother like daughter so was I. My son was a low birth weight (can be associated with IPV) and is 15m old exhibiting signs of trauma from what little interaction he has had with his dad.

Now, the judge and prosecutor will protect you. You are a cooperative witness, so all that badgering you see on tv will not happen to you. Lawyers have to ask and get permission to do that. It’s literally called asking to treat the witness as hostile. Otherwise, not allowed.

It will still suck. I would reach out to a local domestic violence group to arrange for an advocate to go with you. They will escort you to the court, they are allowed to sit with you on the stand, and they can provide support afterwards as well. They cannot speak for your in the court, but they can literally hold your hand through the whole thing. They also are trained to do simple things like stand literally so you don’t see your ex in the hallway.

If you choose to go, consider writing a victim statement in lieu of testifying. You have a right to make a statement. You can say your piece and leave. I found that very therapeutic.

The choice is hard and yours to make. If it were me I would ask:
1. Is my testimony the difference between him getting the consequences he should?
2. Is my testimony going to protect myself and my baby? (Particularly is there already a restraining order in place? For how long? And keep in mind if you have a CRIMINAL not CIVIL restraining order, if his criminal charges are dropped then so is your restraining order)

I am so sorry for all you are going through. Stay strong. If you ever need to talk feel free to pm me

Thank you for your informative reply, I found it very helpful. I’m in the uk. I’m sorry you have been through the same, it’s horrible.

This is my thing, I don’t want charges dropped because I’m not there to back up the evidence. I went through so much to just let it slip through the net plus I couldn’t forgive myself if he did this or worse to another poor woman. He has bail conditions in place and he’s not allowed to enter my hometown or communicate with me at all... obviously these mean nothing now as he’s in prison until trial. He has a history of domestic violence which I found out after what he did to me. He badly beat up his ex wife too. He’s also got pending charges for child abuse (which I also found out after what happened to me) and was due to go to court for that but like my trial he has failed to show, so he’s facing a jail sentence.
I suppose another thing is this happened almost a year ago I can’t remember exactly word for word my statement I gave to the police. I’m just going to go to court and get it over with. What is this victim statement you mention? That may be a good idea. Sorry I’m clueless about all this. Thanks for your message.

 

[DobbyForever]

No! Being clueless about this stuff is good. It means you haven’t had to live through it before. When you start knowing the inner workings of court, that’s when you start feeling like poop.

It is hard because I know stares can vary so differently, that I’m not sure what a different country might be like.

A victim statement is literally just a letter. You can address it to your ex, to the judge, to the court... I wrote mine to the judge. I don’t believe I have that computer anymore, but I can look for it. I explained what my ex had done, how it affected me, and what I ultimately wanted from the court (to feel safe again by having a restraining order and to make sure this never happens to another woman). I just read it and was excused, no questions asked. On my way out I heard the judge light up my ex and grant me a 10 year DVRO.

Sounds like he may not even show so here’s to hoping. But I would definitely reach out to a well established advocate group to get advice to see about alternate ways to testify.

Or talk to some lawyers who do free consultations to see what they recommend. I just know here in the states if the witness does not show then the evidence is thrown out on hearsay because it was not made under oath/penalty of perjury of the court

 

[Babybump87]

Dobby has given you some really great advice which I cannot add anymore too as I think she’s covered it very well .

I was just going to mention the privacy screen . I just came off jury duty and the lady was assaulted by a member of the public . She didn’t want him to see her to the screen/curtain was pulled around . Everyone else in the court room could see her apart from the Defendant . I thought that was the whole point of those screens to make the person giving witness evidence more comfortable by not letting the Defendant see them . Although you say you won’t be able to see him , he can still see you which makes you feel uncomfortable . Why does he need to be able to see you ? I’ve never heard of that, always thought it was just the Judge ,Jury and Counsel who need to see. I would question this again . You may also be able to get a court liaison officer who will stay with you through out the hearing . Hopefully you will only be required at court once to give evidence . You can go over any statements you have previously given with your solicitor .

I hope you find a comfortable way of dealing with this situation . Maybe your going to go through a rough , stressful few days before you can let it go and move on happily with your new baby and family. Good luck xx

 

[Babybump87]

I’ve just pulled this from the gov.uk website . Note the first bullet point under these steps include . So you can definitely give your evidence behind a screen/curtain without him having to see you.

The court may be able to take extra steps to protect you if you:

• are under 18
• have a mental or physical disability
• are afraid to give evidence
• are a victim of a sexual offence
• are a victim of other serious crimes, such as domestic violence or attempted murder

These steps include:

• screens, so the defendant cannot see you
• giving evidence by video link from somewhere else (the defendant will be able to see you)
• asking the public to leave the courtroom when you give evidence, if the case is about a sexual offence
• recording your evidence in front of a camera before the trial
• having someone explain the questions and help you reply to the court (an ‘intermediary’)

 

[DobbyForever]

Love it! Looks like there are other ways to do it! Fxed!

One more thing and again dunno if this is an American thing. We can request which order witnesses go in. Like paid hourly witnesses we can ask them to go first or people who need to pick up small children or for multi day trials days that work around work schedules. You could ask to be first or asap do you don’t sit around longer than you need to

Biggest hugs you are very brave. Here’s to hoping you can video link it!

 

[Jamiesmummy22]

No! Being clueless about this stuff is good. It means you haven’t had to live through it before. When you start knowing the inner workings of court, that’s when you start feeling like poop.

It is hard because I know stares can vary so differently, that I’m not sure what a different country might be like.

A victim statement is literally just a letter. You can address it to your ex, to the judge, to the court... I wrote mine to the judge. I don’t believe I have that computer anymore, but I can look for it. I explained what my ex had done, how it affected me, and what I ultimately wanted from the court (to feel safe again by having a restraining order and to make sure this never happens to another woman). I just read it and was excused, no questions asked. On my way out I heard the judge light up my ex and grant me a 10 year DVRO.

Sounds like he may not even show so here’s to hoping. But I would definitely reach out to a well established advocate group to get advice to see about alternate ways to testify.

Or talk to some lawyers who do free consultations to see what they recommend. I just know here in the states if the witness does not show then the evidence is thrown out on hearsay because it was not made under oath/penalty of perjury of the court

Thanks again for all this information, so grateful! I am so glad I started a thread about this now or I wouldn’t have known about all this.

I think the victim statement is a great idea. I am going to phone victim support tomorrow to find out more. I will give a few lawyers a call too who do free consultations and see what they recommend.

I have been told by the procurator fiscal that it is definately going ahead this time as he has been jailed until the trial so he will be escorted to court from prison. He failed to show twice before and breached bail so the judge obviously decided to hold him in custody.

Honestly can’t thank you enough though. I’m sure I will get through this just need to keep thinking by December it will all be over and I can finally move forward.

 

[Jamiesmummy22]

Dobby has given you some really great advice which I cannot add anymore too as I think she’s covered it very well .

I was just going to mention the privacy screen . I just came off jury duty and the lady was assaulted by a member of the public . She didn’t want him to see her to the screen/curtain was pulled around . Everyone else in the court room could see her apart from the Defendant . I thought that was the whole point of those screens to make the person giving witness evidence more comfortable by not letting the Defendant see them . Although you say you won’t be able to see him , he can still see you which makes you feel uncomfortable . Why does he need to be able to see you ? I’ve never heard of that, always thought it was just the Judge ,Jury and Counsel who need to see. I would question this again . You may also be able to get a court liaison officer who will stay with you through out the hearing . Hopefully you will only be required at court once to give evidence . You can go over any statements you have previously given with your solicitor .

I hope you find a comfortable way of dealing with this situation . Maybe your going to go through a rough , stressful few days before you can let it go and move on happily with your new baby and family. Good luck xx

Oh really. I thought too that the whole purpose of these screens was so that the defendant couldn’t see the victim so I found it odd I was told otherwise at court.
The last time I was at court (he failed to show) I was talked through the whole procedure by the clerk and she told me I would have a screen up and she would be sat next to me and I would see her and the judge but that I wouldn’t see him. She then said that he would see me because he has to see what’s going on. I didn’t think this was right. I am going to mention this to victim support as the thought of it makes me feel uneasy.
I don’t have a solicitor, I gave my statement and photographic evidence to the police, do you think I can go over my statement with the police?
Thank you for your info you have both been really helpful.
Thanks that’s the way I’m looking at it that hopefully it will all be over by the beginning of December and I can finally move forward x

 

[Babybump87]

Yes stand your ground as say you know your rights . No way should he have to see you that’s BS !

You can go over your statement with the Police if you don’t have a solicitor . They should be able to give you a copy or set up an interview

Xx.