breast is no longer best...new research

[FemmeEnceinte]

Actually, it makes me feel better to see FF mums says that their LOs are the same as Molly. So, thanks

I do agree, Kit. I think we're all just defensive because we're all struggling in some way. I am finding it tough, but I'm also loving it. It's a very mixed bag. I'm sorry that it didn't happen for you, don't feel bad... I'm FF and have the best immune system of anyone I know and I'm pretty sure formula has improved somewhat in the last 22 years! Who's to say that the next generation of FF children wont suffer with IBS or suffer far less ailments as formula improves all the time. What we can't see just yet is the long term picture, we're all looking to the past still for a lot of our research. The gap between the two is closing fairly quickly.

x

 

[faille]

If the thread stays on track, it's actually quite interesting to see everybodies pov. It's good to see the other side of the story and also good to see other people on the "same side" and their opinions, too.


I also think the whole reason why a lot of ff'ing mums get a bit sensitive/defensive is that if they wanted or tried to bf and didn't succeed, it's often related to bad experiences with bf'ing and when the whole phrase 'breast is best' is shoved down your throat (not saying this thread is doing that but it's plastered all over the hospitals, mws and now the TV!) - it's kinda like kicking you when you're down; that it shouldn't matter how hard it was or how what went wrong, you're still a bad mum because you didn't succeed in giving your LO "the best possible start in life". That phrase kinda dismisses the individual circumstances and ignores the bad experience the mother has had with bf'ing.

I was never comfortable with the idea of bf'ing anyway but when the time come I genuinely wanted to give it a go. When (I thought) it worked, it was lovely but when it didn't work it was hell. My own experience has put me off wanting to try bf'ing again yet I'm "looked down" for it

 

[Vickie]

I FF Hannah from the start but I would never say she was an easy baby. She didn't sleep through the night until after 6 months, was (and still is) a clingy baby, slept in my arms for all naps for 3.5 months because I couldn't put her down..........

These things can happen no matter how you feed your child.

And even though I FF I had plenty of frustrations and worries. One downside I'd say to FF is that you CAN see the amount your child is having, and if they aren't taking in the "recommended" amount (or more than the recommended amount though in our case it was the latter) it is extremely worrying. I spent a lot of time very frustrated and worried that my child wasn't getting enough milk.

 

[Blah11]

Maybe it should be changed to breastMILK is best. Seems as though no one would/could disagree with that. In defense of the NHS though, I think those adverts as geared more towards pregnant women, not women who tried and for one reason or another couldn't breastfeed.

 

[Tiff]

Or we could go with Wobbles' suggestion that what is best is for Mommy and Baby to be happy. Be it due to breast milk or formula.

 

[polo_princess]

Well nobody should worry if another decides to breast or formula feed - Whats it to do with anyone why should anyone try to understand it or defend it - why do people do just that if people just minded their own got on with their own lives these stupid debates wouldn't be an issue?- Your Mum/Mom your choice. Its all so very pointless imo.

Exactley, these kind of threads always make me chuckle somewhat, why is everyone so concerned about everyone elses parenting choices, worry about your own first and foremost, and when you become the perfect parent then you are in the position to criticise other peoples parenting skills and decisions.

I honestly couldnt care less what X,Y,Z does with their children, i didnt give birth to their child, i dont pay to raise it, so im not in any position to tell them how they should be parenting!!

 

[faille]

Maybe it should be changed to breastMILK is best. Seems as though no one would/could disagree with that. In defense of the NHS though, I think those adverts as geared more towards pregnant women, not women who tried and for one reason or another couldn't breastfeed.

That's what I was trying to say earlier, I don't think anyone could disagree that breastmilk is best but breastfeeding not always

I don't think the bf'ing campaigns are done in the right way either... They put too much pressure on women to try and bf and make them try through guilt and thinking they "should" rather than making women want to breastfeed. BF with the former mindset and you're almost guarenteed to fail.. Go in with the latter and you're more likely to stick it out.

But the campaign thing is a whole nother issue

 

[helent1983]

Maybe it should be changed to breastMILK is best. Seems as though no one would/could disagree with that. In defense of the NHS though, I think those adverts as geared more towards pregnant women, not women who tried and for one reason or another couldn't breastfeed.

Exactly!! This is what everyone who BFs (apart from the odd few I am sure!) thinks. No-one ever means to be funny to people who FF or tries to make them feel guilty. The point of the matter is that breast milk is best but formula is such a close match!

Formula companies try and replicate breastmilk so that must mean that breastmilk is the most compatible for a baby!

Hope this makes sense

xx

 

[ellie1275]

Not told they are wrong or bad for not wanting to nurse their baby.

I'm not sure anyone has done that on this thread, have they?
(Although it took me all day to read it, I might have missed it!!)

I was drawn to the thread by the screaming headline which appeared on the main bay forums page. I was annoyed by the tone and the misinformation of it and was interested to see what was being said. I would never tell anyone they were wrong for not doing it and in my experience, the majority of BF mums I come across are of the same attitude. As with all things there is a minority of people who will take a more militant stance, but I don't think I've seem them on this thread.

Put the shoe on the other foot and imagine next to the breastfeeding section, you saw a thread entitled "Formula Feeding proven to be harmful to babies" I'm sure you'd be right in there to tell us how wrong you thought that was!

can I just say that, how was my post misinformed? I didnt give any exact info I just said I had read it and wrote what I had read? and as for the tone of it I feel it was far more innocent than your comment made here which I feel IS offesive as it is an attack at me?
as also how is 'formaula feeding proven to be harmful' the same thing as 'breast is no longer best?' that would be a comparison to 'breast is not good for baby?' which i did not say.
I was meerly jesting at my frustration with the amount of grief I recieve for not breast feeding (not out of want of trying!!) from people who feel that it is not my choice and that I am somehow letting my baby down by not doing so.
All I wanted to acheive from this post was to see if anyone else had heard about the research, which I asked in my original post, and clarification of what the study was.
my breast police comment I realise in hindsight may have offended people but that was not my intention, every woman is entitled to their view and I meant it from a personal perspective.
sorry to single you out but i do feel that some people on here have actually offended me

 

[Kit]

Not told they are wrong or bad for not wanting to nurse their baby.

I'm not sure anyone has done that on this thread, have they?
(Although it took me all day to read it, I might have missed it!!)

I was drawn to the thread by the screaming headline which appeared on the main bay forums page. I was annoyed by the tone and the misinformation of it and was interested to see what was being said. I would never tell anyone they were wrong for not doing it and in my experience, the majority of BF mums I come across are of the same attitude. As with all things there is a minority of people who will take a more militant stance, but I don't think I've seem them on this thread.

Put the shoe on the other foot and imagine next to the breastfeeding section, you saw a thread entitled "Formula Feeding proven to be harmful to babies" I'm sure you'd be right in there to tell us how wrong you thought that was!

can I just say that, how was my post misinformed? I didnt give any exact info I just said I had read it and wrote what I had read? and as for the tone of it I feel it was far more innocent than your comment made here which I feel IS offesive as it is an attack at me?
as also how is 'formaula feeding proven to be harmful' the same thing as 'breast is no longer best?' that would be a comparison to 'breast is not good for baby?' which i did not say.
I was meerly jesting at my frustration with the amount of grief I recieve for not breast feeding (not out of want of trying!!) from people who feel that it is not my choice and that I am somehow letting my baby down by not doing so.
All I wanted to acheive from this post was to see if anyone else had heard about the research, which I asked in my original post, and clarification of what the study was.
my breast police comment I realise in hindsight may have offended people but that was not my intention, every woman is entitled to their view and I meant it from a personal perspective.
sorry to single you out but i do feel that some people on here have actually offended me

I don't think Foogirl was attacking you with this post - I don't think she meant that your post was misinformed, but rather that the article itself had an imflammatory headline and was misinformed - which seems to be true - and that she was interested in what views were being expressed on the thread.

We really do need to try to be a little less ready to take offence where none is being given - at the risk of repeating myself, I don't recall any offensive posts coming from the BF "side", although there have been some offensive comments aimed AT the BFers.

It occurs to me that we are all treating this as an issue of succeeding or failing at BFing, whereas there is actually a third point of view in this debate. Many people choose to FF from birth and may be reading this and feeling marginalised by the suggestion (by me and others) that the only reason for not BFing is trying and failing. I know the breast is best campaign is aimed at persuading everyone to at least give it a go, but there are many, many women who make the decision that FF is best for them for many legitimate reasons - medical, emotional, practical etc. So while those of us who tried and failed at BFing are struggling with accepting the viewpoint of those who do BF, no doubt some FFing by choice mums are struggling with the viewpoint expressed by those who FF by default. If we feel that the breast is best campaign makes us somehow second best, I would imagine the FF by choice mums probably find it even more galling.

While some of us are seeing a straightforward divide between BF and FF, others are probably seeing BF and failed BF as just two aspects of the BF "side" of the breast is best debate.

Maybe if we try to see that this is a multi-perspective issue and not a straightforward BF v FF issue then we might be able to avoid taking offence quite so much!

 

[Foogirl]

can I just say that, how was my post misinformed? I didnt give any exact info I just said I had read it and wrote what I had read and as for the tone of it I feel it was far more innocent than your comment made here which I feel IS offesive as it is an attack at me?

As Kit says, there was no attack on you, but my reasons for posting what I did were;

1) The "research" (which isn't actually research) isn't new, it is a review of old research which Professor Carlsen (who has links to Glaxo SK) carried out. If you look at any research with a pre-conceived question in mind, you are very likely to find a favourable answer to your question somewhere.

2) Your synopsis of what he actually reported was one sided and inaccurate.

3)The use of the term "breast police" didn't seem to be an "innocent" comment. But I accept your explanation as to why you used it

I understand that you may not have read the research, or indeed any discussion around it - as I said, this type of thing isn't ever reported widely on by journalists with a scientific background, but by lazy tabloid hacks who are looking for a sensationalist headline and lack the intelligence to look at the real facts. Given your admission that you feel guilt, I can also understand why you wouldn't want to go digging further to find a balance in the reporting. To be honest, I was more interested in what the reaction to your post would be rather than in what your initial post actually said. If you feel me questioning your initial post is attacking you personally, I apologise for that, it wasn't my intention, I simply wanted to challenge the validity of the claims.

as also how is 'formaula feeding proven to be harmful' the same thing as 'breast is no longer best?'

I wasn't actually drawing any comparison with my choice of fictional topic, rather I was giving an example of a sensational post which would likely draw someone from this section to post in that one.

 

[Jody R]

I only got through about half of this discussion so I apologise if I am going over old ground.

I'm with the people who say that whatever way works best for mum and baby is the best way for them and nobody else has a right to tell them otherwise.

Our baby group is a mixture of BF and FF babies and as mums together we find we get along well and nobody looks down on anybody else for doing it their own way.

I tried to breastfeed Joseph but he didn't take to it at all. He was hungry all the time but refusing to feed for long when at my breast. He lost so much of his birthweight we were nearly hospitalised after five days at home.

I gave up because I realised during one feed that the liquid going into his mouth was not milk, it was my blood. No wonder he was pulling away from me.

And for all the Breast is Best talks they gave me at the hospital during parentcraft classes and midwives appointments not one midwife was available to help me feed him while we were there after his birth. I was stuck on my own in a corner behind a curtain, at one point thinking one of the other mum's partners was about to attack a doctor who accidentally knocked over a jug of water. I felt alone, scared, confused and unsupported and at that one time frightened for the safety of my baby. Breast might be natural and normal but it doesn't always come easy to people and I might have succeeded if I had been given help right at the start.

The midwives who came to our house were more able to help but they could only be there for one feed and I struggled and Joseph nearly became very ill. And then when I had to stop I felt isolated because the only groups running near us were Breastfeeding Cafe's and as a FF mum I wasn't welcome.

Joseph's health was failing on breast feeding (not perhaps the milk but certainly the method) and he thrived on formula feeding (again perhaps not the milk but the method) and now he is a healthy little boy of 10 months. Breast is not best for us.

So yes, I do feel that FF mums are neglected and looked down upon by the medical profession and the local authorities who arrange the groups and clinics.

But not by most other mums, however they choose to feed their baby. As I said, our group of mums respect the choices of others no matter how different they are to their own. And I know from speaking to the BF mums that they feel just as neglected and looked down upon, especially when they are expected to BF in a toilet cubicles or glared at (or perved at) in cafes etc.

I feel sorry for the OP in this discussion, she posted an article supporting FF in the FF section and probably didn't expect to start an argument or have her motives questioned. If she had posted it in the BF section that might be a different matter but she didn't.

And Blah although I agree that we can't avoid all disagreements in our lives you seem to be a bit abrupt in the way you state things, as I've quoted you below.

I like the whole breast should be seen as normal too. I think that's mainly what pee's me off in todays society especially with *SOME* young/teen mummies or those in lower classes. I dunno why but a lot seem to automatically go buy bottles and formula when preg instead of buying a breastpump and nursing bras. It should be the other way round really.

Not only are we in the middle of what seems to be a small scale argument on BF/FF but you threw teen mums and class wars into the mix, two more things guarenteed to get peoples backs up.

I'm sure there are as many teen mums breast feed as formula feed, as many working class as middle or upper class. What you've said is about the same as me saying posher mothers all have elective c-sections because they are too posh to push and then express their milk so the nanny can feed the baby while they swan off to the gym and the nail salon to get back to being a size zero. It's a sweeping and snobbish generalisation that just isn't true (and no I don't believe it, I was using the example to make a point).

Before Joseph was born I bought everything, nursing bras, pump, bottles and formula because I wanted to be prepared for any eventuality. To answer your question as to why, it's because I was scared and I wanted back-up for whatever might happen. I didn't want to find I was stuck without something I needed if and when I needed it.

 

[ryder]

lol I love how this thread is almost ALL breastfeeding mothers continually rubbing it in that breast is best.

I dont think it is at all! And hearing that repeatedly is what is offensive. Amoung some of the other comments made. I dont think the people responding and defending saying "THEY havent seen any offensive comments" is really appropriate when you arn't a formula feeder.

How can a breastfeeding mother who looks down on formula feeders and has never formula fed understand what makes a ff offended?

I think in my very first post in this thread I didnt agree with the thread or title either. I think people should be free to choose. The only thing thats best for your baby is what works for you, whether it be formula or breastmilk.

This thread isnt even about the title anymore. Its just another thread for the breastfeeding crew to shove it down ff;s throats that they are better and their babies are fed better.

Whatever...

 

[ryder]

btw, when these 2 sections were created I believe there was talk of them being made "secret sections" to avoid things like this? Maybe if people cant stop being offensive that is a good idea?

The breastfeeding section is filled with insults about formula feeders which I ignor usually if I am reading something there.

 

[mommyof3co]

I was a FF mom, I formula fed Landon and then I nursed Casen and Hayden and I still see nothing offensive. There are just things in breastmilk that formula can not do and in that sense and how it changes with the baby and is made specifically for your baby is why I do feel it is best. But that doesn't mean formula is bad and like someone else said it doesn't mean the act of breastfeeding is best, it's what you feel is best for your family. I don't understand why people get so offended, you did what you felt was best, who cares what others think?

 

[Tiff]

I think (personally) that it varies from individual. I had a very hard time when I stopped breastfeeding at first. I'm okay with it now, but it was hard. There are some that don't get over it.

My MIL is one of them. My OH is 35 and she STILL gets upset about not breastfeeding him. He was born overseas and the nurses popped a bottle in his mouth right away and he rejected breastfeeding due to it.

I don't think its someone else's place to say whether or not someone should/shouldn't be offended. We're an eclectic group of ladies and some things are taken differently. I don't think that someone should have to overly explain if offence is taken. Not drawn out at least, but I can see how it is frustrating when people have repeatedly said that this is a hurtful topic and some of the comments have been upsetting and it seems like it doesn't matter?

I don't agree with the OP either, for that matter. I think it should be whatever makes Mommy and Baby happy. End of story. It just seems like we keep beating this dead horse further and further into the ground.

 

[Foogirl]

Everybody seems offended you only have to look at the response to this research to see that then its a fight to prove ones choice. Its pathetic the whole thing.

I come at it from an entirely different stand point, whether it be Breast Feeding, vaccinations or even what the best type of baby oil to use, my beef is with bad science, rather than with the actual topic in itself. Of course as a breast feeder this is one which I have a personal interest in. But I would genuinely accept a properly conducted piece of research if it discovered there was no difference between formula and breastmilk. It wouldn't change my choice as my reasons go beyond the purported health benefits. I actually think the benefits statistically are not that significant.

It is when this bad science is accepted as fact and used almost in a two fingers up kind of way that I get riled up. I see no need for anyone to prove ones choice as it is a personal issue.

 

[pinkbow]

wow i spotted this when i was searching unread posts and boy its long lol...but i think its a nice healthy "debate"

personally i like the phrase..."i dont care how u feed ur baby....and long as u feed ur baby" and fits well in here i think lol

i think people who are getting offended and keep comming back on how BF mums r here is because they have guilt etc...if u didnt ud simply walk away from this thread.

but annnnyhoo i think its been highly informative hearing both sides tbh

 

[KrisKitten]

Iv tried to read through as much of this thread as i can stomach and what i dont understand is why exactly any1 saying 'i feed this way and i think it is best for my child' offensive to anyone?
Surely anything ne1 does is what they think is best for their child? I breastfeed and im happy in the knowledge that that is best for my baby, if u formula feed im sure u r happy in the knowledge that that is best for ur baby so y not leave it at that?
Tbh i don't care what research says, i FEEL like breastfeeding is good for him, therefor i enjoy doing it, it is excellent for bonding and im proud of myself for doing it.
At the same time if u dont feel comfortable/were not able to im sure uv still bonded with your baby, ur bub is healthy and growing and u FEEL lke ur bub is happy.
SO who gives a crap what research says or what any1 else sez for that matter, surely Mum Knows Best?
I find this BF vs FF argument pathetic xxx

 

[ryder]

Iv tried to read through as much of this thread as i can stomach and what i dont understand is why exactly any1 saying 'i feed this way and i think it is best for my child' offensive to anyone?
Surely anything ne1 does is what they think is best for their child? I breastfeed and im happy in the knowledge that that is best for my baby, if u formula feed im sure u r happy in the knowledge that that is best for ur baby so y not leave it at that?

Because they arnt saying they think breastfeeding is best for THEIR child. They are saying they think breastfeeding is best period...

And since this is the formula feeding section, I dont find a bunch of breastfeeders coming in here saying they think breastfeeding is best, very supportive.

And I dont think people should be able to come in and say they dont support people who choose to bottlefeed etc. Its really no ones business why they choose to bottlefeed.

If people dont want to support formula feeders in this section then im not sure what they are doing here. Thats all im saying. Kind of defeats the purpose of 2 seperate sections if people are allow to come in and insult people like that?