breast is no longer best...new research

[lollylou1]

I totally understand hun, I don't think anyone here is trying to argue that breastfeeding is easy, by any route. If it were that easy, I doubt there would be a market for formula at all!

But in saying that, I don't see how someone posting this is 'taking away from your achievement'. Most FF Moms I know totally agree that it is a pat on the back to get as far as you have. I guess I just don't see the point in things?

Like, okay I know its hard. I know it hurts. I was there myself. How is someone saying that FF is "just as good" takes away from you? Again, this is people choosing to take offence to it? Or am I mistaken somehow? And when you say something like that, how am I as a FF Mom supposed to take that? So you are saying that no, it isn't just as good and we're giving second rate stuff to our babies? How is someone supposed to take that?

I get that they are your feelings, but did you really need to say that? Knowing how touchy a subject like this is? Especially in the formula feeding section where there are quite a few Moms who desperately wanted to breastfeed but couldn't? Moms who have a hard enough time as it is?

I dunno, to me it'd be like posting a in the LTTTC forums. I can understand if this was posted in the breastfeeding section, but I dunno. I'm not trying to say that BF Moms shouldn't feel like they can come in here, and when I really sit down and think about it if I saw "Formula sucks" as a thread in the BF section I'd probably feel compelled to check it out as well. But I'd like to think that when I have posted in the BF sections that I've always maintained that I love seeing the breastfeeding milestones blinkies, and how proud I am of BF mothers for really sticking it out.

Is it too much to ask to have the same courtesy in the FF area?

I don't even know if I'm making sense. I am NOT trying to be argumentative either, or make you feel that you can't post in here. I hope you know that. I'm just truly not understanding some things, and I always figure it is better to ask questions rather than to assume.

I think it's widely accepted that it's not as good. Hence the slogan: Breast is beast. BUT, that doesn't mean that formula isn't good or enough for babies, if it weren't... I wouldn't be here. My mother FF me.

When we say, it's not as good... it's not meant to be offensive. Formula does plenty of wonderful things for mum and baby but it doesn't do everything that breastmilk does. Fine, the extra things that breastmilk does aren't essential to survival but, like anything, it's a matter of opinion whether or not it's essential to YOU. I suffer with IBS, eczema, pet allergies and hayfever... all of which breastmilk is proven to reduce the risk of. My decision to BF is to prevent these things in my child because of how much they've been a bother to me. You might say these things would have happened anyway and you're right... there's no way to know if it could have been prevented but, if there's a way I can massively reduce the risk for Molly then I'm all for it. Now, they're not serious ailments... I'm alive, healthy, childbearing and have a brilliant immune system... formula has served me well. I just would consider all that, plus not suffering with the things that I do... a massive bonus. My OH was breastfed for 2 years and has no health complaints whatsoever, along with a superb immune system. That's what I want for Molly, because that's what I'd chose for me.

None of this means that if you chose not to try or if it's just not for you that you're a substandard parent in any way. I know fine well just how miserable BF can make a person at times and, for some people, in different circumstances, having led different lives, it's just not right for them. Who wants a depressed mother who has issues bonding with her child for the sake of a few minor ailments? That's when it's just not worth it. Further to that, if you didn't get support or you found it too difficult physically or if it just was impossible for any reason... it still doesn't make you bad or defective in any way. Would you ever look at your child and be crippled with guilt because they have hayfever? simply because you didn't BF? Of course not... your child is happy and healthy and that's the most important thing of all.

So, no it's not as good for a few little reasons but that's not to say it isn't good or even great... it's a little miracle for millions of women.

What bothers me is that, when people try to make out that it's just as good, it suggests that people needn't bother BFing at all. It suggests that, after all the nights of tears and misery trying to stop Molly swallowing air and giving herself painful gas, all the worrying over whether or not she's getting enough because she's not had a wet nappy in a while is for nothing. The things I'm doing this for are important to me and I take a lot of comfort in my lowest moments in the fact that what I am doing will be worth it in the long run.

If the fact that people say it's not as good is offensive to some then I don't know what to say about that really. I want women to BF, I want to support them and so, no, I won't tell them it's just as good because, for a number of small reasons, it isn't. That's not putting anyone down, it's just a medical fact.

I hope this has been taken well and not as offensive. As I have said before, formula is great and a lifeline for millions. It's a constant reassurance to even the most diehard BFers that, whatever happens, formula is always there if something should go wrong.

i never really get involved in the FF and breast feeding topics because it often ends in rows etc but i was interested in the title, i have read a few pages and then decided to skip to the end to see what was going on!!

i dont mean to seem though im picking on you hun but yours was the last post and therefore stands out the most to me!

My husband was breastfed for about 12 months, he has bad eye sight, awful allergies to nearly everything, excema, asthma and hayfever also quite bad! i was formula fed and am always bloody ill!!!

and although i can see your point about how you worded

I think it's widely accepted that it's not as good

people that chose to FF do so for a reason but im quite sure they do believe that it is just as good a BF or they wouldnt do it! but as i read through your post where you stay would u feel guilty that your child had hayfever because u didnt breastfeed implies to me that u would feel guilty but then inturn how do u think that makes FF mummies feel!

i tried to BF and admittedly not very hard but soon FF and i am very happy with my decision, Annabelle was diagnosed as lactose intolerant at 3 weeks old so we had special formula anyway!

im not trying to argue hun im just stating it how i personally see it!
im very open minded and support either method just as well as the other i dont think its wrong to BF if i could of i would but for all the parents who wanted to but couldnt its hard to be told your not giving your baby the best!

Lou
xxx

 

[FemmeEnceinte]

I wouldn't feel guilty. I suffer with it and I'd hardly say it's a big deal or life affecting... but if I could choose? I'd obviously choose not to have it.

With regards to you and your OH, it's like I said... some people will have allergies regardless but BFing does drastically reduce the risk. I don't see the difference between formula and breast milk as being enormous, it's small but can be significant.

It must be hard to feel like you're not giving your child "the best" but that's not true and people shouldn't feel like that. Only you can know what is best for your child, but when it comes to which of the two is better... they are pretty similar, save for a few small things. So, breast is best BUT not massively or significantly. If it was massively or significantly better then formula wouldn't be allowed to exist/people wouldn't use it.

It just comes down to what you believe is best.

 

[faille]

im not trying to argue hun im just stating it how i personally see it!
im very open minded and support either method just as well as the other i dont think its wrong to BF if i could of i would but for all the parents who wanted to but couldnt its hard to be told your not giving your baby the best!

Lou
xxx

Definately.
And being told we're putting our babies "at risk" by not bf'ing doesn't really go down well either

I know nobody has outrightly said that ff is "wrong/harmful/bad" etc but it has been implied indirectly. By saying how much "better" bf'ing is still makes the ff'ing mum feel the same as saying ff is 'worse' iygwim?

We know in an ideal world that everyone would be able to bf and there wouldn't be this issue but it does start to get to you when you constantly hear that "breast is best".

At first you agree and just shrug it off because it didn't work out for whatever reason.. But then you hear it some more and it starts cutting a little deeper. I know it's a 'positive' phrase but it most definately causes a lot of negative feelings for those who tried or couldn't even try.

Hope that makes sense

BTW, I'm not saying that people shouldn't promote bfing because they should and there definately needs to be more support out there. But maybe there's a way to word it to stop ff'ing parents feel like they're doing 'wrong' by not offering 'the best'. I really hope that makes sense... This is such a sensitive subject because it's so personal and one of the few aspects of motherhood we have very little control over, if any.

 

[faille]

I wouldn't feel guilty. I suffer with it and I'd hardly say it's a big deal or life affecting... but if I could choose? I'd obviously choose not to have it.

With regards to you and your OH, it's like I said... some people will have allergies regardless but BFing does drastically reduce the risk. I don't see the difference between formula and breast milk as being enormous, it's small but can be significant.

It must be hard to feel like you're not giving your child "the best" but that's not true and people shouldn't feel like that. Only you can know what is best for your child, but when it comes to which of the two is better... they are pretty similar, save for a few small things. So, breast is best BUT not massively or significantly. If it was massively or significantly better then formula wouldn't be allowed to exist/people wouldn't use it.

It just comes down to what you believe is best.

I was writing my reply when you posted and I honestly feel that is the way to promote bf'ing to ff'ing mums without it coming off sounding like ff is 'wrong' or 'bad' somehow. Thanks hun x

 

[FemmeEnceinte]

I think I was a lot more judgemental before I tried to BF. Now that I have, I can see just how hard it is and just how good a thing formula really is.

x

 

[Wobbles]

Whats best is what Mum/Mom decides



No ifs and buts about it why be bothered about this statement either way (outraged or using it to prove your choice).

Neither is neglect or child abuse and thats what matters - when boob or bottle is given you love your babies right? Well thats the best thing to digest

Are you more interested in statistics that are more superior or more interested in your children and what suits your final decision.

 

[Kit]

Oh dear - I thought this thread was back on track.
I don't know how to do multiple quotes so I will just have to copy and paste!

What people need to remember is that there is guilt, emotional turmoil and a great deal of stress on BOTH sides of this debate.

I understand why you feel this way, but I suspect that these feelings are not quite as strong on the "right" side of the breast is best debate. It is emotionally easier to succeed at something, even something painful and difficult, than it is to try and ultimately fail. This is why FF mums are generally going to be a little more defensive.

And can people please stop saying it's natural...? Yes, it is to some people but for others it completely isn't.

As Foogirl said there is a language/semantics issue here - I think people are using "natural" in 2 different ways - of course breastfeeding is natural - nature intended all mammals to breastfeed their offspring. However, it does not always come naturally to everyone.

Sorry wobbles but I cant believe that all these breastfeeding mothers have been able to come into the FF section and offend formula feeding mothers IN THE FORMULA FEEDING SECTION!

As I said earlier, I haven't seen people being offensive, save where disagreeing with others - most of the original opinions stated have been polite and generally very carefully worded. Are we going to finish up with a situation where we have to request access to a feeding forum and prove we do/don't feed in a particular way. As someone, can't remember who, said - this is not an apartheid situation!

It would be very nice for those of us who did not succeed at BFing if research showed that they were equally good. Unfortunately, that is not the case. Breastmilk has been shown to be statistically better - we don't yet know just how much better - but it is a fact that it is better for a number of reasons. That is not to say that it is the best option for everyone - clearly it wasn't best for me as my child would have starved had there not been another option! There is absolutely nothing we can do to change this fact - therefore there is probably always going to be guilt/regret associated with FFing after attempting to BF. There is realistically absolutely no way that BFing can be promoted, as it should be, without implying that FFing is less beneficial. Those of us who wanted to BF and couldn't are unfortunately just going to have to live with it and take comfort from knowing that we did our best. Those of us who actively chose to FF for any reason whatsoever will just have to have faith in the decision and in the reasons why they decided it was best for them. We really, really shouldn't have a situation where any mention of the proven benefits of breastfeeding becomes offensive!

This is not to say that I have any time whatsoever for BFing mums who decide to ram their views down my throat and actively criticise the fact that I FF. I have met 2 such mums in real life and I had the greatest difficulty in not beating them about the head with my Avent bottle. If anyone posts overt criticism of FFing or, as happened a while ago, a suggestion that FFing mums simply don't try hard enough, I will have a bit more to say on the matter!

Finally, a request - not intended to be controversial, just my view. I feel that there are issues - BFing is one, weaning age is another, CIO is another, where giving advice or promoting the "mainstream" view is sometimes treated as a no-go area - because offence is almost always taken by those who do things differently. Can we all work together so that we don't finish up with a situation where people who BF, wait till 6 months to wean, don't do CIO etc, in short who generally follow the mainstream advice, don't become complete pariahs on the forum!!

 

[FemmeEnceinte]

What people need to remember is that there is guilt, emotional turmoil and a great deal of stress on BOTH sides of this debate.

I understand why you feel this way, but I suspect that these feelings are not quite as strong on the "right" side of the breast is best debate. It is emotionally easier to succeed at something, even something painful and difficult, than it is to try and ultimately fail. This is why FF mums are generally going to be a little more defensive.

I don't know... it's hideously difficult to succeed in doing something that you just don't want to do. I'll be painfully honest... some nights, I don't want to do it any more. I worry that she's not getting enough, that she's sensitive to things in my diet, that she's miserable and unhappy because BF babies are just far less settled. I, personally, don't benefit in any way other than day to day convenience. It isn't about me... it's about my daughter. So, some days, late at night it's an empty feeling success. It's early days and I'm aware it gets easier but that's the reality of BFing for many women.

In the day time, I love it... always. It's easier and I can see more clearly that she's happy and what I'm doing is the best thing for her. No matter how small a difference the benefits might be. I need to know that because I wouldn't do it otherwise. It drives and motivates me.

Not one BF mother is sat here, smug and content in her "success" over FF mothers. I resent the implication that we are as it suggests there is something in it for us.

 

[Kit]

What people need to remember is that there is guilt, emotional turmoil and a great deal of stress on BOTH sides of this debate.

I understand why you feel this way, but I suspect that these feelings are not quite as strong on the "right" side of the breast is best debate. It is emotionally easier to succeed at something, even something painful and difficult, than it is to try and ultimately fail. This is why FF mums are generally going to be a little more defensive.

I don't know... it's hideously difficult to succeed in doing something that you just don't want to do. I'll be painfully honest... some nights, I don't want to do it any more. I worry that she's not getting enough, that she's sensitive to things in my diet, that she's miserable and unhappy because BF babies are just far less settled. I, personally, don't benefit in any way other than day to day convenience. It isn't about me... it's about my daughter. So, some days, late at night it's an empty feeling success. It's early days and I'm aware it gets easier but that's the reality of BFing for many women.

In the day time, I love it... always. It's easier and I can see more clearly that she's happy and what I'm doing is the best thing for her. No matter how small a difference the benefits might be. I need to know that because I wouldn't do it otherwise. It drives and motivates me.

Not one BF mother is sat here, smug and content in her "success" over FF mothers. I resent the implication that we are as it suggests there is something in it for us.

Nowhere in that post did I say that anyone involved in this thread is being "smug and content" - in fact you will see that I said the exact opposite. There are "smug" BF mums out there - as I said I met two of them - but not on this thread as far as I can tell.
I wouldn't have thought that many people, BFing or FFing would disagree that it is emotionally easier/better/whatever word you want to use to try to do something and succeed than it is to fail. It doesn't detract from your success - I would have thought it was just a fact, in the same way that the benefits of BFing are a fact.

No doubt I am know going to have offended a FFer as well. In the middle and seeing both sides seems to be an unpopular place to be.

 

[Wobbles]

Am I missing something because I didn't think this thread was about your breastfeeding milestones nor is this section for that use.

 

[FemmeEnceinte]

No, I think you're very articulate and make your points well. I happen to agree for the most part.

Also, the smug and content comment wasn't directed at you. I just get the impression that FF mothers who are so quick to be offended/defensive are of that mindset.

I can't speak for everyone but, emotionally, I don't feel like there is any personal success to be gained in what I'm doing. I'm happy that I'm able to do it and maybe I take that for granted, I can also appreciate how hard it must be to not succeed for whatever reason. I just don't think that makes you emotionally worse off than those of us who face daily turmoil, seeing how contented FF babies seem in comparison, seeing how much more sleep FF mother seem to get and living the reality of BFing. It's certainly not peachy 100% of the time. At least once a day I think "This is just too hard!". To that end, I do feel like there has been some sort of personal failure on my part.

So, it's like I said in my original post... and really, it doesn't matter at all who has it the hardest... we ALL suffer. We're all finding it hard and we all have times when we wish things were different. If we can appreciate that and not just to agree to disagree then I think it makes us wiser and more compassionate in debates like these.

 

[FemmeEnceinte]

Am I missing something because I didn't think this thread was about your breastfeeding milestones nor is this section for that use.

Milestones? I'm trying to make the point that people shouldn't feel as though BF mothers have succeeded because that's not what it's about. Also, that it's hard and I can see why some people choose not to do it...

 

[Wobbles]

Everybody seems offended you only have to look at the response to this research to see that then its a fight to prove ones choice. Its pathetic the whole thing.

Wish my Megan slept through (well her Daddy does) she wakes every 2 hours at 10 months old ...is formula fed and weaned.

 

[Love Bunny]

why can't everyone just accept one anothers choices? Be a breastfeeder and proud! Be a formula feeder and proud! It doesn't matter what you feed your baby as long as they are happy and fed! x

 

[Wobbles]

Well nobody should worry if another decides to breast or formula feed - Whats it to do with anyone why should anyone try to understand it or defend it - why do people do just that if people just minded their own got on with their own lives these stupid debates wouldn't be an issue?- Your Mum/Mom your choice. Its all so very pointless imo.

 

[FemmeEnceinte]

I don't feel like I'm fighting to prove myself, I just want people not to feel bad if they don't BF because it's not easy.

I appreciate some children will be different, it just seems that FF children are more settled and content from looking around the baby club. That said, I think we're all guilty of "why do they have it easier than me?" In fact, I think this whole debate pretty much comes down to that.

Anyway, I think I've made my point/derailed this thread enough. Hopefully, nobody has been offended and can see the good intentions behind my posts.

 

[Wobbles]

^ I didn't mean you personal I meant generally - Its a common debate.

 

[Love Bunny]

Well nobody should worry if another decides to breast or formula feed - Whats it to do with anyone why should anyone try to understand it or defend it - why do people do just that if people just minded their own got on with their own lives these stupid debates wouldn't be an issue?- Your Mum/Mom your choice. Its all so very pointless imo.

Your completely right - unless something is harming baby it has nothing to do with anyone. And as long as your happy with your own choice then there shouldn't be a problem ! x

 

[Kit]

No, I think you're very articulate and make your points well. I happen to agree for the most part.

Also, the smug and content comment wasn't directed at you. I just get the impression that FF mothers who are so quick to be offended/defensive are of that mindset.
.

Oh good - because I agree with almost all your posts! I am sorry you find it such tough going. I don't mean to suggest that FF mums have a monopoly on guilt but I do think that, IN GENERAL, people will find it easier on the emotions to succeed. And I think that those who do should be able to celebrate their achievements. I think it is like running a marathon. If you and I both trained every day, had injuries and motivation problems, sacfrificed other things and when it came to race day you struggled on and finished and I couldn't go on after 20 miles, we would both be aching and exhausted but you would still know you succeeded whereas I would just limp home feeling like I had wasted my time. Seeing you with your medal would hurt even if you didn't wave it around and look happy and I would feel bad if I didn't feel happy for you.

This thread has the potential to get us all understanding both points of view much better but not if we keep taking offence at the same old stuff.

And wobbles - I don't jnderstand about the milestones issue. I haven't seen any reference to milestones. Have missed something?

 

[caz81]

I don't feel like I'm fighting to prove myself, I just want people not to feel bad if they don't BF because it's not easy.

I appreciate some children will be different, it just seems that FF children are more settled and content from looking around the baby club. That said, I think we're all guilty of "why do they have it easier than me?" In fact, I think this whole debate pretty much comes down to that.

Anyway, I think I've made my point/derailed this thread enough. Hopefully, nobody has been offended and can see the good intentions behind my posts.

the max we have ever had is a 4 1/2hr gap between feeds and she is ff so must be doing something wrong!!