breast is no longer best...new research

[Mum2b_Claire]

Yep I agree Femme. Although I was unable to BF (non latching baby!) I can totally see your point.

 

[Blah11]

I agree with you too femme.

 

[helent1983]

Me too! x

 

[andbabymakes3]

This is so sad. Why the point scoring and one-upmanship?

I for one have found my first 5 months of motherhood emotional, stressful, bewildering, exhausting, life changing, incredible, mind blowing, tearful...I exclusively bf'd for the first month-ish, then switched to combination feeding because that is what works FOR ME.

I find it so sad that we, as women, don't support eachother in WHATEVER choice we make. What the hell happened to sisterhood?

Fine, yes, formula isn't natural. I totally agree with that. Breasts are there to feed our babies. However, we introduced a bottle of formula because I was sat for I think the 4th day in a row, sobbing with frustration that I couldn't 'get it right'. Would it have been good for my baby or me to continue, tears dripping onto her little head as I fed her? Seriously? I think not.

Thankfully, one of the things I sussed out pdq is that I know what is best for my baby. Not the hv, or the midwife (two of whom hadnt even had children??), or my family, or my friends, or other mums...just me. My baby, my choice.

Why do women feel the need to always go one better? I dont understand it? The constant battles - SAHM v working mums, breastfeeding mums v formula feeding mums, blw mums v puree mums, early weaning mums v late weaning mums...we're all just mums. No matter what way we go about it, all we want is happy, healthy, loved babies.

 

[pip holder]

This is so sad. Why the point scoring and one-upmanship?

I for one have found my first 5 months of motherhood emotional, stressful, bewildering, exhausting, life changing, incredible, mind blowing, tearful...I exclusively bf'd for the first month-ish, then switched to combination feeding because that is what works FOR ME.

I find it so sad that we, as women, don't support eachother in WHATEVER choice we make. What the hell happened to sisterhood?
Fine, yes, formula isn't natural. I totally agree with that. Breasts are there to feed our babies. However, we introduced a bottle of formula because I was sat for I think the 4th day in a row, sobbing with frustration that I couldn't 'get it right'. Would it have been good for my baby or me to continue, tears dripping onto her little head as I fed her? Seriously? I think not.

Thankfully, one of the things I sussed out pdq is that I know what is best for my baby. Not the hv, or the midwife (two of whom hadnt even had children??), or my family, or my friends, or other mums...just me. My baby, my choice.

Why do women feel the need to always go one better? I dont understand it? The constant battles - SAHM v working mums, breastfeeding mums v formula feeding mums, blw mums v puree mums, early weaning mums v late weaning mums...we're all just mums. No matter what way we go about it, all we want is happy, healthy, loved babies.

Wonderfully put

everyone

 

[mrsholmes]

i agree!

 

[AppleBlossom]

All I will say is, it doesn't matter if you bf or ff, as long as your baby is fed does it matter? I bf'ed for almost 2 weeks. Everytime I did it I cried in pain because Grace was such a greedy baby she sucked so hard and then would get frustrated when she wasn't getting as much as she wanted. I won't say I enjoyed it because I didn't, I hated it. So after that I started FFing and me and Grace were much happier. I don't believe for a second that by not BFing my child that I have done wrong by her. I always do what is best for Grace and I don't feel at all guilty for the decision I made, I have no reason to feel guilty because she is a happy healthy baby who has been ill once in the over 18 months she has been here. I haven't read all 27 pages because I don't think it's necessary because I could probably predict what is written in here. But anyone that is offended by other people saying their way is right, unless you DO feel guilty for doing something then you won't be offended by someone saying it's wrong.

 

[faille]

I've skimmed through some of the pages and just wanna share my opinion regarding why ff'ing mums sometimes get aggrivated and offended when bf'ing mums use the phrase 'breast is best' - it makes me (and I'm sure others) feel as though we are failing our babies some how and we're "second" best by offering formula - it's as if we're being told that we're not as "good" as bf'ing mums. I know that isn't the intention but that's what that particular phrase says to me. And it's nothing to do with feeling guilty - it's that word, "best"

Breastfeeding isn't best, but I wont argue that breastmilk is (to some degree.. I'd take formula over a smoking alcholics breastmilk any day).

And can people please stop saying it's natural...? Yes, it is to some people but for others it completely isn't. Using a toilet isn't natural - that's man made but we still use one right?? Being naked is natural, we're not born with clothes but the majority still wear them.

And giving birth is "natural" but it doesn't always go without needing medical assistance so not all the time it's that easy as saying its natural

 

[Foogirl]

I've skimmed through some of the pages and just wanna share my opinion regarding why ff'ing mums sometimes get aggrivated and offended when bf'ing mums use the phrase 'breast is best' - it makes me (and I'm sure others) feel as though we are failing our babies some how and we're "second" best by offering formula - it's as if we're being told that we're not as "good" as bf'ing mums. I know that isn't the intention but that's what that particular phrase says to me. And it's nothing to do with feeling guilty - it's that word, "best"

I think it comes down to language and semantics. Breastmilk is the best option, and breastfeeding also offers an added level of comforting. But formula feeding and using another sort of comfort whether it be a dummy and a cuddle etc, is as close an alternative as it can possibly be. There are any number of examples where apparently "second place" substitutes are used and people don't get all bent out of shape about it. Using a substitute should never be considered as a failure. If a mum is doing the best they possibly can given their own set of circumstances then how can that be failing?

And can people please stop saying it's natural...? Yes, it is to some people but for others it completely isn't. Using a toilet isn't natural - that's man made but we still use one right?? Being naked is natural, we're not born with clothes but the majority still wear them.

Again it is down to language. It is what nature intended. But just as with every other aspect of life, man made solutions have been developed for those situations where the "natural" solution isn't possible. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that and it is how we have been able to evolve and survive as a species. I like the use of the word "natural" as it helps make it more acceptable in public. How can someone complain about a mother breastfeeding her child if it is a natural thing to do? It makes it less taboo.

 

[ryder]

Sorry wobbles but I cant believe that all these breastfeeding mothers have been able to come into the FF section and offend formula feeding mothers IN THE FORMULA FEEDING SECTION!

This thread has more bfing mothers posting in it then FF mothers.

Honestly, I support breastfeeding and people who nurse their babies. I am willing to give it a go again with this baby too.

But I know that myself, nor most of the formula feeding mothers hike over to the breastfeeding section and argue that formula feeding is better etc. There's plenty of things I dont like reading, which im sure many other formula feeders dont appreciate, again, you dont see anyone going over to the breastfeeding section and letting loose on the breastfeeding moms?

I was under the assumption that these 2 sections were made so people could get supported. Not told they are wrong or bad for not wanting to nurse their baby.

Guess I was wrong, seems to be a double standard.

 

[Foogirl]

Not told they are wrong or bad for not wanting to nurse their baby.

I'm not sure anyone has done that on this thread, have they?
(Although it took me all day to read it, I might have missed it!!)

I was drawn to the thread by the screaming headline which appeared on the main bay forums page. I was annoyed by the tone and the misinformation of it and was interested to see what was being said. I would never tell anyone they were wrong for not doing it and in my experience, the majority of BF mums I come across are of the same attitude. As with all things there is a minority of people who will take a more militant stance, but I don't think I've seem them on this thread.

Put the shoe on the other foot and imagine next to the breastfeeding section, you saw a thread entitled "Formula Feeding proven to be harmful to babies" I'm sure you'd be right in there to tell us how wrong you thought that was!

 

[ryder]

actually no, i've seen a few threads with things that I think are wrong and that annoy me in the breastfeeding section. I however control myself and stay out of them because those are the rules.

And when peopl post for support in breastfeeding etc, I have always supported them. So no, I dont like reading things from breastfeeding moms saying its natural and they think its wrong that people dont try, or that they dont "approve" or support people who just dont like it or dont want to try.

 

[Foogirl]

actually no, i've seen a few threads with things that I think are wrong and that annoy me in the breastfeeding section. I however control myself and stay out of them because those are the rules.

Well, not exactly. You have posted in there and potentially things that could cause offence to BF mothers if they were of a mind to take it that way.

But as you say, it is entirely unacceptable for anyone to judge anyone for their choices, no matter what section they do it in.

 

[mrs.beanz]

I have 3 kids. I breast fed the first and the third and am currently breastfeeding. I tried with the second and it just didn’t happen. Do I think breast is best? Not really. It depends on what that mother is putting in her body to begin with. I don’t agree with there being a best or a natural label on feeding your child. Sure it is said that women have breasts for that reason, animals feed their young that way etc etc. but being a mother is what women have been made to believe they were put on this earth for and to be made to feel that you cannot or choose not to do the “best” or “natural” thing will make anyone feel like a failure whether they already felt guilty about it or not. Every mother I have ever met is very defensive when it comes to their children or the way they parent whether the argument is right or wrong…so why be so surprised about the reaction from mothers that FF? They are doing what a mother does…Defending.. whether she FF’s or BF’s.
As far as I’m concerned if a mother does what she feels is right and isn’t harming her child, who am I to complain. A happy mother makes a happy child and making a mother miserable over something such as this is in some way harmful to a child…in my opinion anyway.
Maybe they say breast is best because it rhymes and its shorter than saying breast was right for ME and MY baby. I got over feeling bad about not being able to breastfeed my second and don’t have an opinion about FFing mothers even now that I am breastfeeding…because the last time I checked they gave birth to that baby…not me.

One more thing....Mothers do an amazing thing. They carry and give birth to another human being. They nurture and love their child for their rest of their lives and when that baby grows up, and makes a life for themselves, it had nothing to do with the way they were fed. Just the fact that they were fed at all and loved by an amazing woman.

 

[pip holder]

actually no, i've seen a few threads with things that I think are wrong and that annoy me in the breastfeeding section. I however control myself and stay out of them because those are the rules.
And when peopl post for support in breastfeeding etc, I have always supported them. So no, I dont like reading things from breastfeeding moms saying its natural and they think its wrong that people dont try, or that they dont "approve" or support people who just dont like it or dont want to try.

I genuinely did not know that I wasn't allowed in here if that is the case?
We are all adults, why should there be a feeding apatheid and self imposed segregation over something as fundamental as feeding our babies.
I wouldn't dream of deliberately offending anyone in here - I do BF but soon will also FF and therefore straddle the two forums (oo-er) as I haven't got a clue what I'm meant to be doing.

Both 'groups' of feeders come up against stick for many different reasons in life but isn't that why we are members here - to support one another? To educate one another?

-As Foo pointed out, loads of BF ing girls wouldn't even have seen the thread if it wasn't for the wow factor title.

This was always going to be emotive but can we all just be a bit empathetic towards each other and realise that no one has it easy where feeding is concerned but YOUR baby YOUR choice.

As I've said elswhere in the past - we are lucky that our babies are well enough to feed.
Indeed we are lucky to have babies full stop. Many girls on this site would love to be bickering about feeding but tragic events have put paid to it.

 

[Tiff]

A big part of me resents the fact that FF is much easier in practice than BF. A lot of women work really hard, push through agony and major obstacles to BF their baby, truly believing in what they're doing and wanting desperately to do it. Some nights, when I've had no sleep because LO wants to BF round the clock and some days when it's the same and we're in a growth spurt I start to think how much easier it would be to give her formula, because then she'd settle for longer and sometimes OH could feed her and I could sleep for more than 3 hours at a time. Then, when this debate kicks off and people roll up with the "it's just as good" argument, it really takes away from all the hard work people put in and considering how hard it is for most women... I think it deserves a little respect, recognition and not to be dismissed as "not best" or, more irritatingly, "just as good".

I have endless respect for women who try and are unable because I KNOW just how hard it is. I envy some women for their ability to not care if it doesn't work out, because I know that's just not me. I'll BF until Molly is done or I am physically incapable and even then, I'll be sad. Don't get me wrong... I enjoy the emotional experience and I enjoy knowing that I am persevering through trying times. But it is incredibly difficult and anyone taking my achievement away by taking this one piece of research as gospel will always be offensive, to me. One swallow does not a summer make.

What people need to remember is that there is guilt, emotional turmoil and a great deal of stress on BOTH sides of this debate.

I totally understand hun, I don't think anyone here is trying to argue that breastfeeding is easy, by any route. If it were that easy, I doubt there would be a market for formula at all!

But in saying that, I don't see how someone posting this is 'taking away from your achievement'. Most FF Moms I know totally agree that it is a pat on the back to get as far as you have. I guess I just don't see the point in things?

Like, okay I know its hard. I know it hurts. I was there myself. How is someone saying that FF is "just as good" takes away from you? Again, this is people choosing to take offence to it? Or am I mistaken somehow? And when you say something like that, how am I as a FF Mom supposed to take that? So you are saying that no, it isn't just as good and we're giving second rate stuff to our babies? How is someone supposed to take that?

I get that they are your feelings, but did you really need to say that? Knowing how touchy a subject like this is? Especially in the formula feeding section where there are quite a few Moms who desperately wanted to breastfeed but couldn't? Moms who have a hard enough time as it is?

I dunno, to me it'd be like posting a in the LTTTC forums. I can understand if this was posted in the breastfeeding section, but I dunno. I'm not trying to say that BF Moms shouldn't feel like they can come in here, and when I really sit down and think about it if I saw "Formula sucks" as a thread in the BF section I'd probably feel compelled to check it out as well. But I'd like to think that when I have posted in the BF sections that I've always maintained that I love seeing the breastfeeding milestones blinkies, and how proud I am of BF mothers for really sticking it out.

Is it too much to ask to have the same courtesy in the FF area?

I don't even know if I'm making sense. I am NOT trying to be argumentative either, or make you feel that you can't post in here. I hope you know that. I'm just truly not understanding some things, and I always figure it is better to ask questions rather than to assume.

 

[mommyof3co]

From what I understood that it's not against the rules to post in the "other" forum but you can't go in preaching about how your way of feeding is better and putting down others. If you can offer advice to the subject it's ok....someone correct me if I'm wrong??

I thought both sides were just discussing, no one on "the breastfeeding side" seemed to be putting anyone down that I saw atleast, maybe I missed something, I just scanned the past couple pages. They've even tried to word it and make sure they say they don't think formula feeding is bad in any way. It was just a discussion. I don't think both sides should be prevented from discussing feeding as long as it's done in the right way. My opinion of course.

 

[Wobbles]

Pip holder ...What Mummuof3co said. Its not that its not allowed but unfortunately your way of thinking doesn't happen. WW3 is often on the cards its AWFUL so with both support forums available it gives nobody the right to preach or shout down at others for their way of thining should it be the opposite ...although you will find Mums who feed the same way can offend each other too haha but not quite so bad to handle.

Then theres the fact of people getting support in the right section without reading threads that they don't relate to and have no support to offer (titles of threads are never clear).

This one has been left alone as much as possible but I can see it coming to an end quite quickly rather than dragging it out - It will with no doubt that I'd place money on it get out of control.

 

[milkmachine]

the continual aggressive accusing posting of someone isnt really helpful....things have been plodding along really nicely IMO its nice to see bfeed and ffeed mamas discussing and supporting eachother.

 

[FemmeEnceinte]

I totally understand hun, I don't think anyone here is trying to argue that breastfeeding is easy, by any route. If it were that easy, I doubt there would be a market for formula at all!

But in saying that, I don't see how someone posting this is 'taking away from your achievement'. Most FF Moms I know totally agree that it is a pat on the back to get as far as you have. I guess I just don't see the point in things?

Like, okay I know its hard. I know it hurts. I was there myself. How is someone saying that FF is "just as good" takes away from you? Again, this is people choosing to take offence to it? Or am I mistaken somehow? And when you say something like that, how am I as a FF Mom supposed to take that? So you are saying that no, it isn't just as good and we're giving second rate stuff to our babies? How is someone supposed to take that?

I get that they are your feelings, but did you really need to say that? Knowing how touchy a subject like this is? Especially in the formula feeding section where there are quite a few Moms who desperately wanted to breastfeed but couldn't? Moms who have a hard enough time as it is?

I dunno, to me it'd be like posting a in the LTTTC forums. I can understand if this was posted in the breastfeeding section, but I dunno. I'm not trying to say that BF Moms shouldn't feel like they can come in here, and when I really sit down and think about it if I saw "Formula sucks" as a thread in the BF section I'd probably feel compelled to check it out as well. But I'd like to think that when I have posted in the BF sections that I've always maintained that I love seeing the breastfeeding milestones blinkies, and how proud I am of BF mothers for really sticking it out.

Is it too much to ask to have the same courtesy in the FF area?

I don't even know if I'm making sense. I am NOT trying to be argumentative either, or make you feel that you can't post in here. I hope you know that. I'm just truly not understanding some things, and I always figure it is better to ask questions rather than to assume.

I think it's widely accepted that it's not as good. Hence the slogan: Breast is beast. BUT, that doesn't mean that formula isn't good or enough for babies, if it weren't... I wouldn't be here. My mother FF me.

When we say, it's not as good... it's not meant to be offensive. Formula does plenty of wonderful things for mum and baby but it doesn't do everything that breastmilk does. Fine, the extra things that breastmilk does aren't essential to survival but, like anything, it's a matter of opinion whether or not it's essential to YOU. I suffer with IBS, eczema, pet allergies and hayfever... all of which breastmilk is proven to reduce the risk of. My decision to BF is to prevent these things in my child because of how much they've been a bother to me. You might say these things would have happened anyway and you're right... there's no way to know if it could have been prevented but, if there's a way I can massively reduce the risk for Molly then I'm all for it. Now, they're not serious ailments... I'm alive, healthy, childbearing and have a brilliant immune system... formula has served me well. I just would consider all that, plus not suffering with the things that I do... a massive bonus. My OH was breastfed for 2 years and has no health complaints whatsoever, along with a superb immune system. That's what I want for Molly, because that's what I'd chose for me.

None of this means that if you chose not to try or if it's just not for you that you're a substandard parent in any way. I know fine well just how miserable BF can make a person at times and, for some people, in different circumstances, having led different lives, it's just not right for them. Who wants a depressed mother who has issues bonding with her child for the sake of a few minor ailments? That's when it's just not worth it. Further to that, if you didn't get support or you found it too difficult physically or if it just was impossible for any reason... it still doesn't make you bad or defective in any way. Would you ever look at your child and be crippled with guilt because they have hayfever? simply because you didn't BF? Of course not... your child is happy and healthy and that's the most important thing of all.

So, no it's not as good for a few little reasons but that's not to say it isn't good or even great... it's a little miracle for millions of women.

What bothers me is that, when people try to make out that it's just as good, it suggests that people needn't bother BFing at all. It suggests that, after all the nights of tears and misery trying to stop Molly swallowing air and giving herself painful gas, all the worrying over whether or not she's getting enough because she's not had a wet nappy in a while is for nothing. The things I'm doing this for are important to me and I take a lot of comfort in my lowest moments in the fact that what I am doing will be worth it in the long run.

If the fact that people say it's not as good is offensive to some then I don't know what to say about that really. I want women to BF, I want to support them and so, no, I won't tell them it's just as good because, for a number of small reasons, it isn't. That's not putting anyone down, it's just a medical fact.

I hope this has been taken well and not as offensive. As I have said before, formula is great and a lifeline for millions. It's a constant reassurance to even the most diehard BFers that, whatever happens, formula is always there if something should go wrong.