"Comic Relief money should be spent on contraception"

[blahblahblah]

at the idea of even thinking of 'heavily encouraging' sterilisation. African women are entitled to have babies and they are also entitled to the same human rights as we are.

Out of interest, would you/others feel the same about this issue if it was targeted directly at men/women with HIV?

 

[Blah11]

at the idea of even thinking of 'heavily encouraging' sterilisation. African women are entitled to have babies and they are also entitled to the same human rights as we are.

Out of interest, would you/others feel the same about this issue if it was targeted directly at men/women with HIV?

That's a tricky one. I probably would but only if they 100% knew what HIV and AIDS were and that the likelyhood would be their baby being born with HIV. I don't imagine any woman choosing to risk passing on that horrible virus to any new life.

Safe sterilisation should be available if the woman wants it of course, but not heavily encouraged or forced.

 

[moomin_troll]

theres a woman in this country whos hiv positive and yet has unprotected sex with her husband and has had 4 children, each time risking giving the hiv to her husband or kids which i find so selfish....luckly her children dont have it.

but thats a risk i couldnt take and dont think anyone should

 

[Blah11]

really? ugh. My desire for babies is so strong but not if it meant potentially passing on a deadly virus :\ people sicken me.

 

[Nic1107]

But you planned your children, yes? I cant imagine women in Africa planning to have kids. Sorry but I cant. Or, maybe one child, and when they cant feed that one, I imagine the child-planning would stop! And also, when you got pregnant after your loss, you knew you could care, and look after the child. These women do not.

Of course they plan to have kids. Whether it's something that people in more fortunate situations can understand or not- women in Africa have the same desire and yes, the same rights to have children. Think about it- a few centuries ago, extreme poverty and devastating epidemics of communicable disease were the harsh reality of everyday life in societies that are generally wealthy and well-taken-care-of now: places like present-day UK and US. Should our ancestors have been sterilized?

 

[moomin_troll]

yeah it was afew yrs ago now and she was all over mags saying how proud she was...made me so mad and i thought u idiot about her husband. bloody playing with theres and childrens lives made me sick

 

[Blah11]

Epitome of selfishness?

 

[Eve]

I stand by what I've said before... and after reading some of the comments on this page... to the woman who has unprotected sex with her OH and having HIV and having 4 children...

 

[Laura2919]

I havent read all the posts so I apologise if I have repeated someone else!

Yes I do think thats what the money should be spent on. Regardless of Religion or what they believe in they are giving birth to children who will more than likely die before they are even a year old and if they do make it they live with the smallest amount of everything. Water, food, toilets, clothing. All the things we take for granted.

If they were given contraception and I am not talking about a condom I am talking about something like the implant or injection there wouldnt be such a huge problem. Its definitely not going to stop all the problems in those countries but its gonna make it easier to manage (be it the wrong word to use)

I can honestly say all I donated was the price of two red noses and only that cos my daughters wanted one. If there was something like this idea in place then maybe I would donate more but while they are allowed to just keep creating lives they cant look and care for I dont see why I should.

I do feel sorry for them and the parts of Comic Relief I did watch was sad but they dont help the situation by having more and more children. Surely even they must know they are giving birth to children that are suffering.

 

[Blah11]

overpopulation isnt as much an issue as hiv and poverty

 

[indy and lara]

There are many HIV positive parents in the UK and around the world. An HIV parent does not mean that the child will be HIV positive. It is also worth remembering that in the 'developed' world, HIV does not mean an automatic death sentence anymore due to advancements and availability of antiretroviral drugs. One of the biggest issues in Africa is the fact that these drugs are not available to all.

Should all women in struggling countries in Africa be sterilised in order to reduce the population then only the very wealthy will be able to have children. How can that ever be okay?

To be honest, I kind of agree with Mum2J&K. If each persons situation was looked at individually - not just a mass sterilising spree, as that wouldnt be right.
But if a woman/family has, say 3, kids, and she/they cant look after or feed them, then I think she should be sterilised. Not forcibly, but heavily encouraged, to do so.
Otherwise, she may go on to have 4, 5, 6, 7 kids and the first 3 that she had will suffer even more!
Wheres the fairness in that?

I know everyone would be screaming "human rights, human rights" but what about the kids?

Sterilisation should be available but IMO it should never be forced, nor heavily encouraged. A mother in this country who has many children, whom she cannot afford would never be led in her choices to do with sterilisation because it is unethical.

Besides of her three children, one, two or three could die, and if they do then there is often an 'empty arms syndrome', many women feel the need to have another baby, not to replace but to help them heal, these are normal feelings whether you be in the UK or Africa, but sterilisation is permanent, it means there is no going back. Also if all three of her children have died, who looks after her as she gets old?

All wrong reasons to have kids!QUOTE]

When my son died I had empty arms syndrome. As did many of the mums I know who have lost children. I do not think that it was the wrong reason to go on and have another child thank you very much. The emotions surrounding losing a child are the same regardless of where you are in the world. It is pretty common to go on to have another child.

There seems to be a thread running through this from some posters that children in Africa only know starvation, rape and abuse. Being born into a poor family does not mean that you will be raped or abused. While there are some African countries where this happens, not all African children face a life of abuse. Sadly children all over the world in many supposedly developed countries face the same yet we do not call to sterilise women in these countries.

I wonder what would happen in centain countries in Africa if women were to be sterilised in a mass programme? Countries do actually need babies to be born or their population will die out. Are only the wealthy in these countries to have children as they are the only ones who will be able to afford to look after them?

But you planned your children, yes? I cant imagine women in Africa planning to have kids. Sorry but I cant. Or, maybe one child, and when they cant feed that one, I imagine the child-planning would stop! And also, when you got pregnant after your loss, you knew you could care, and look after the child. These women do not.

I just can't understand why people think that women in Africa do not care for or look after their children. Of course they do. They love their children as much as you do.

Instead of being annoyed by the women who have children, why are we not up in arms about the fact that there are societies in the world where people are starving? Should Comic Relief have been advocating mass sterilisation I would certainly not have donated as I did.

 

[Lightworker]

I find it weird that people think they can solve all, or indeed any, of Africa's problem by preventing people from having children. Even if all Africans decided to not have any more children the problems would still be right there. Are they going to magically vanish because there are no more babies? Those advocating mass-sterilization/contraception, have you done any reading into the issues plaguing the continent?

 

[Laura2919]

I dont think anyone has said its going to 'magically vanish' all problems but its a way of keeping all the problems minimal.

So its ok that they give birth to a child and the baby starves to death or dies at a very early age because they are unable to care for a child I'm just not comfortable with the fact they actually have babies and how many of them have stopped and said but what if I cant care for my child properly? Come on seriously if that happened over here it wouldnt be ok..

 

[Nic1107]

People do that all the time... in developed countries as well. Get pregnant and then wonder if they can take care of a kid, I mean.

I don't think anyone so far outside of their situation can truly ever understand the mindset or emotions of women living in extreme poverty. Maybe they have all the confidence in the world that they will be able to take care of their child- by sacrificing what they have for themselves, by living with hope and prayer, by the love they feel for their child they will find a way to raise that child safe and happy. Maybe they're right- not every baby in Africa dies, do they? Should the children who are alive and happy- despite living in a situation we couldn't handle- not exist today? Maybe they are right for a while, but then their fortunes take a turn for the worst. Maybe they're wrong. We don't know any better than they can guess- and like I said before, having children throughout the course of the vast majority of history, in all nations, was often a risk of great peril to mother and child. We have not advanced so far ahead of women in third-world countries that we can decide, independently of their consent, into which families a child is allowed to be born.

 

[Lightworker]

Ah well - Forced sterilization has been recognized by the international community as a Crime Against Humanity and so, mercifully, it will probably never happen. Not as long as there are human beings that have FULL, IN-DEPTH knowledge of the African situation, and have complete respect for the fundamental rights of human beings. (Even Africans)

 

[flubdub]

People do that all the time... in developed countries as well. Get pregnant and then wonder if they can take care of a kid, I mean.

Not in the millions.
And you say "wonder" if they can take care of the kids. "Wonder"
The people in Africa, know.

 

[flubdub]

Ah well - Forced sterilization has been recognized by the international community as a Crime Against Humanity and so, mercifully, it will probably never happen. Not as long as there are human beings that have FULL, IN-DEPTH knowledge of the African situation, and have complete respect for the fundamental rights of human beings. (Even Africans)

The only people that have used the word "forced" on this thread, are the people that say "sterilsation souldnt happen."

Nobody has actually said "We should FORCE sterilsation on them".

 

[Lightworker]

I thought someone further back did say they should be forced. In any case, whether it is forced or "heavily encouraged" it is still at odds with the rights of the people. And more importantly, it is absolutely useless as far as solving problems go. Also, by even mentioning sterilization, people are declaring that the African's life will never amount to anything so they dont deserve to have children ever. How is that not wrong? How is that consistent with the empowerment of Africans?

 

[flubdub]

I thought someone further back did say they should be forced. In any case, whether it is forced or "heavily encouraged" it is still at odds with the rights of the people. And more importantly, it is absolutely useless as far as solving problems go. Also, by even mentioning sterilization, people are declaring that the African's life will never amount to anything so they dont deserve to have children ever. How is that not wrong? How is that consistent with the empowerment of Africans?

I said, encourage sterilsation after one of two children. How is that NOT wrong?
If she cant feed those first two kids, she shouldnt have more. She just shoudnt. Babies are being born to starve to death.

 

[Lightworker]

Ok here is a hypothetical scenario. Ken and Barbie are middle class folk living in suburbia with 2 children. Barbie is a SAHM with no qualifications and Ken works in a bank. One day, Ken loses his job as a result of global economic issues. They lose all their savings and assets and cannot afford to look after their children. There are no benefits or social welfare. Should Barbie be sterilized?