"Comic Relief money should be spent on contraception"

[KaceysMummy]

Lifes what we make it - I believe.
Some peoples life is all about love and family, I don't think its very right for people to decide whether someone else should be able to have children or not.
However - the problem in Africa is massive...
I am very for 'love is all you need' but in this situation its very different - they babies need a lot more.
I don't see how any African mother would want to have more children, knowing the daily struggles her and her family already go through - every parent wants more for their own child.
China have/had a one child policy...
but its more the HIV that needs to be 'fixed' rather than population.

 

[moomin_troll]

hugger thats abit over the top! barbie doesnt have aids for a start which is the main concern.

that would be like saying i shouldnt be alowed to have my children, seen as i was a sahm who relied on my husbands wage. hes not around anymore, ive got a 2 yr old and pregnant, i dont get the normal benifits a sinlge mum usualy gets. but that doesnt mean i cant have my children....where as if i had aids and was poor from day 1 i wouldnt plan a child at all.

but most of the woman in africa dont plan babies, they are abused and raped and they cant go get a abortion if they want, they have no choice but to give birth to that child

 

[flubdub]

Ok here is a hypothetical scenario. Ken and Barbie are middle class folk living in suburbia with 2 children. Barbie is a SAHM with no qualifications and Ken works in a bank. One day, Ken loses his job as a result of global economic issues. They lose all their savings and assets and cannot afford to look after their children. There are no benefits or social welfare. Should Barbie be sterilized?

No because they are probably using contraception.
They dont in Africa.

 

[Lightworker]

Lol- I am sorry to laugh as this is clearly not a laughing matter but just to clarify- Africans do use contraception for the most part. Ugandas levels of HIV dropped after huge efforts on the part of the govt spreading condoms. This practice was later emulated in several other countries. In many countries you cannot walk anywhere without seeing giant billboards for condoms! Contraception is there. Whether it is taken up is another matter - due to attitudes or extreme situ like war, rape etc.

 

[blahblahblah]

Ok here is a hypothetical scenario. Ken and Barbie are middle class folk living in suburbia with 2 children. Barbie is a SAHM with no qualifications and Ken works in a bank. One day, Ken loses his job as a result of global economic issues. They lose all their savings and assets and cannot afford to look after their children. There are no benefits or social welfare. Should Barbie be sterilized?

This is probably a more realistic scenario:

Barbie has 6 children, and in keeping them fed, goes without herself. She is HIV positive. She knows she is ill and cannot cope with more children. Ken and/or others routinely rape her, and she does not have access to regular healthcare or contraception.

Should Barbie have the option to be sterilised if she chooses to?

 

[flubdub]

Ok here is a hypothetical scenario. Ken and Barbie are middle class folk living in suburbia with 2 children. Barbie is a SAHM with no qualifications and Ken works in a bank. One day, Ken loses his job as a result of global economic issues. They lose all their savings and assets and cannot afford to look after their children. There are no benefits or social welfare. Should Barbie be sterilized?

This is probably a more realistic scenario:

Barbie has 6 children, and in keeping them fed, goes without herself. She is HIV positive. She knows she is ill and cannot cope with more children. Ken and/or others routinely rape her, and she does not have access to regular healthcare or contraception.

Should Barbie have the option to be sterilised if she chooses to?

YES!

 

[flubdub]

Lol- I am sorry to laugh as this is clearly not a laughing matter but just to clarify- Africans do use contraception for the most part. Ugandas levels of HIV dropped after huge efforts on the part of the govt spreading condoms. This practice was later emulated in several other countries. In many countries you cannot walk anywhere without seeing giant billboards for condoms! Contraception is there. Whether it is taken up is another matter - due to attitudes or extreme situ like war, rape etc.

That doesnt mean they use them!!! Im assuming then that if they are "using condoms for the most part" that the Afriacan population is going down?

 

[Lightworker]

Moomin- these woment are women JUST LIKE YOU, with life stories JUST LIKE YOU. So many times I have read of couples who worked white collar jobs, husband dies, mother is left to look after children and the situation deteriorates to the point of having them homeless. LIKE YOU they experience crises in life, how are they any less deserving of the right to reproduce? My hypothetical situ was not OTT it was a true and accurate reflection of whats on the ground.

 

[flubdub]

Moomin- these woment are women JUST LIKE YOU, with life stories JUST LIKE YOU. So many times I have read of couples who worked white collar jobs, husband dies, mother is left to look after children and the situation deteriorates to the point of having them homeless. LIKE YOU they experience crises in life, how are they any less deserving of the right to reproduce? My hypothetical situ was not OTT it was a true and accurate reflection of whats on the ground.

That might be the case for SOME of them, but not all of them, or in fact MOST of them, or I bet even 10% of them!!

 

[moomin_troll]

Moomin- these woment are women JUST LIKE YOU, with life stories JUST LIKE YOU. So many times I have read of couples who worked white collar jobs, husband dies, mother is left to look after children and the situation deteriorates to the point of having them homeless. LIKE YOU they experience crises in life, how are they any less deserving of the right to reproduce? My hypothetical situ was not OTT it was a true and accurate reflection of whats on the ground.

did i say anywhere in my post that they shouldnt have the right to have their babys like i do? no i didnt so i have no idea what u read because it wasnt my post.

i was saying ur post was over the top and nothing like what the women in africa other countries are going thru

 

[Lightworker]

Flubdub- whether or not the population is growing or in decline is immaterial given that a significant percentage of said population consists of self-suffecient Africans. To determine whether or not it is growing brings nothing to this debate as we are concerned about the starving children. What you should be asking is, is there an increase of starving children? If so why? And deal with the cause. And then also remember to assess the state of children globally and see if this seems to be the case worldwide.

 

[Tasha]

TBF you dont know that, so you shouldnt just presume.

Oh and as for the hypothetical situation, shouldnt the last line be should Barbie be highly encouraged to be sterilised?

 

[Lightworker]

Moomin- I am african, my comment was a fair assessment based on my experiences. Also, I meant to ask, when you said "most women are raped and abused" where did you get your figures from to arrive at that conclusion?

 

[Lightworker]

Genuine question here though- what are your impressions of life in Africa? Where or how were these formed?
Flubdub- do you have proof to show that less than 10% of the population actually had jobs to begin with?

BTW- Just to clarify, I dont have anything against promotion of contraception and have seen women express gratitude for implants etc but to make it a focal point, nah.

 

[moomin_troll]

Moomin- I am african, my comment was a fair assessment based on my experiences. Also, I meant to ask, when you said "most women are raped and abused" where did you get your figures from to arrive at that conclusion?

that has come from the tv programs i have watched, articals i have read ect. im not saying its fact but i no like everywhere it goes on alot. and from my husbands experience in africa.

to me ur comment felt like it was based on a woman living in the uk so that is like asking someone if i shouldnt be allowed my children because my situation has changed and im not on a comfy income anymore.

most of the woman here have concerns about the hiv out there and also complete lack of support so these children are born with no chance.
if i was poor, not in work no benifits and had a life threatening illness i wouldnt try for a baby and do anything i could not to have one if i knew my situation wouldnt change.

 

[flubdub]

Genuine question here though- what are your impressions of life in Africa? Where or how were these formed?
Flubdub- do you have proof to show that less than 10% of the population actually had jobs to begin with?
BTW- Just to clarify, I dont have anything against promotion of contraception and have seen women express gratitude for implants etc but to make it a focal point, nah.

Oh for goodness sake. You said that these womens husbands had died and that is why they lived on the street.
Why would I say that less then 10% of people in africa have jobs?!

This is getting stupid now.

 

[Lightworker]

Moomin- yeah you know this thread is so great in that despite the current debate, its indicative that people actually care. Re the children born to an HIV + mom, the latest figures from UNICEF (or WHO cant remember which lol) are that 78% of children are achieving sero-reversion within the first 2 years of life. That is going from HIV+ at birth to HIV-. So typically, with the right care, they do stand good chances.

 

[Tasha]

The thing is religion comes into this too, why should a woman be highly encouraged/forced (yes that was said, on post 111) to go against what they believe in? Idk, I am just the sort of person who isnt comfortable with anything being forced on to someone, especially something as huge as sterilisation.

 

[moomin_troll]

Moomin- yeah you know this thread is so great in that despite the current debate, its indicative that people actually care. Re the children born to an HIV + mom, the latest figures from UNICEF (or WHO cant remember which lol) are that 78% of children are achieving sero-reversion within the first 2 years of life. That is going from HIV+ at birth to HIV-. So typically, with the right care, they do stand good chances.

again ive not said they dont stand a chance with the correct care. im not sure if ur just very pasionate or looking for a argument tonight.

in my persoanly opinion i wouldnt even try for a child if i was hiv positive, because my wanting a child wouldnt be that great thats id want to risk my babies life.

and ive posted a story on this thread before about a women in the uk who had hiv and was having unprotected sex with her husband and had 4 children. i think its disgusting to play with lifes like that no matter where u live.

 

[Lightworker]

Flubdub- calm down, sorry for my stupidity lol I probably must have misunderstood your post - it is a legitimate hazard of internet communication lol. I thought you said only 10% of the african population fitted in with my Ken and Barbie scenario, and I was merely asking for proof. Do forgive my stupidity