Controversial - Madeline McCann

[JASMAK]

Trouble is, the evidence for that leap just doesn't seem that strong for me. And perhaps more convincingly for me, as the years wear on and they keep going back and back to the media, I have to ask: "If you were the kind of idiot who accidentally killed their child, and successfully got away with covering it up, why the hell would you not just let the media furore die down quietly, and go away? Why would you ever, ever bring it up again?" All you would have to say in response to enquiries is that you have accepted your child is gone now, so many years later, and you are just trying to deal with your grief in private.

good point; of you'd accidentally killed your child you wouldn't keep bringing the media attention, nor asking the police to look into it again. I never thought there was foul play, but if there was, to risk being found out all over again is just stupid

On another thread it has been asked though, why she left her twins in the very place that she believed her daughter to have been taken from to go and sound the alarm? Surely you wouldn't do that? Sheer panic maybe? Not thinking past where is Madeleine?

i have to admit that I've done stupid things with my kids in the past; leaving them in harms way, and I'm just lucky nobody took advantage of it and nothing happened to them. Sometimes though, depending on the situation, you aren't thinking straight and you act on impulse. Plus, at that point perhaps she wasn't thinking "abduction" and was simply wondering if Madeleine had walked out of the door, so perhaps she still saw the apartment as "safe" and therefore no need to take the twins with her

Going out for dinner is not an impulse decision. Apparently they did it before too. I have a coworker who used to leave his daughter sleeping in the crib while he left to take his other daughter to school. He would be gone 30-45 minutes. Just as bad! Not impulse...pure laziness!

 

[Lara310809]

Trouble is, the evidence for that leap just doesn't seem that strong for me. And perhaps more convincingly for me, as the years wear on and they keep going back and back to the media, I have to ask: "If you were the kind of idiot who accidentally killed their child, and successfully got away with covering it up, why the hell would you not just let the media furore die down quietly, and go away? Why would you ever, ever bring it up again?" All you would have to say in response to enquiries is that you have accepted your child is gone now, so many years later, and you are just trying to deal with your grief in private.

good point; of you'd accidentally killed your child you wouldn't keep bringing the media attention, nor asking the police to look into it again. I never thought there was foul play, but if there was, to risk being found out all over again is just stupid

On another thread it has been asked though, why she left her twins in the very place that she believed her daughter to have been taken from to go and sound the alarm? Surely you wouldn't do that? Sheer panic maybe? Not thinking past where is Madeleine?

i have to admit that I've done stupid things with my kids in the past; leaving them in harms way, and I'm just lucky nobody took advantage of it and nothing happened to them. Sometimes though, depending on the situation, you aren't thinking straight and you act on impulse. Plus, at that point perhaps she wasn't thinking "abduction" and was simply wondering if Madeleine had walked out of the door, so perhaps she still saw the apartment as "safe" and therefore no need to take the twins with her

Going out for dinner is not an impulse decision. Apparently they did it before too. I have a coworker who used to leave his daughter sleeping in the crib while he left to take his other daughter to school. He would be gone 30-45 minutes. Just as bad! Not impulse...pure laziness!

No, of course choosing to go out for dinner and leave your kids isn't an impulsive decision; I meant that once she found Madeleine to be gone, she was probably on auto-pilot and just freaking out, so again left the twins in the apartment while she went to look for her and raise the alarm. That's the impulsive behaviour I meant; not the fact that they went out for dinner in the first place.

BTW your co-worker had some balls to do that; I'd never take such a risk

 

[JASMAK]

Trouble is, the evidence for that leap just doesn't seem that strong for me. And perhaps more convincingly for me, as the years wear on and they keep going back and back to the media, I have to ask: "If you were the kind of idiot who accidentally killed their child, and successfully got away with covering it up, why the hell would you not just let the media furore die down quietly, and go away? Why would you ever, ever bring it up again?" All you would have to say in response to enquiries is that you have accepted your child is gone now, so many years later, and you are just trying to deal with your grief in private.

good point; of you'd accidentally killed your child you wouldn't keep bringing the media attention, nor asking the police to look into it again. I never thought there was foul play, but if there was, to risk being found out all over again is just stupid

On another thread it has been asked though, why she left her twins in the very place that she believed her daughter to have been taken from to go and sound the alarm? Surely you wouldn't do that? Sheer panic maybe? Not thinking past where is Madeleine?

i have to admit that I've done stupid things with my kids in the past; leaving them in harms way, and I'm just lucky nobody took advantage of it and nothing happened to them. Sometimes though, depending on the situation, you aren't thinking straight and you act on impulse. Plus, at that point perhaps she wasn't thinking "abduction" and was simply wondering if Madeleine had walked out of the door, so perhaps she still saw the apartment as "safe" and therefore no need to take the twins with her

Going out for dinner is not an impulse decision. Apparently they did it before too. I have a coworker who used to leave his daughter sleeping in the crib while he left to take his other daughter to school. He would be gone 30-45 minutes. Just as bad! Not impulse...pure laziness!

No, of course choosing to go out for dinner and leave your kids isn't an impulsive decision; I meant that once she found Madeleine to be gone, she was probably on auto-pilot and just freaking out, so again left the twins in the apartment while she went to look for her and raise the alarm. That's the impulsive behaviour I meant; not the fact that they went out for dinner in the first place.

BTW your co-worker had some balls to do that; I'd never take such a risk

I know! One time he drove me home...and we were talking in the vehicle for a loooong time....he's a chatter....then he said 'well, I should go....baby is in the crib". He wasn't even in a hurry to get home. I felt SICK knowing his lo was home alone! What if there was a fire, or robbed, or a gas explosion, or what if HE was in a car accident!

 

[Tiff]

Personally I don't understand it either. Granted, this story hasn't had as much media attention over here... but I want to say I read somewhere that the resort they were at did have babysitting services that they turned down?

I know that some of the resorts we've gone to have babysitting services, but its during the day... not at night/dinner time. So they could've turned it down during the day and its getting misconstrued?

Either way, I don't understand leaving your kid like that. Most resorts will do room service, they could've easily had their dinner in the room where their kiddos were.

I'm so paranoid I don't even leave Claire in the house alone while I go to check our community mailboxes. Its a 2 min walk down the street but I just can't bring myself to do it!

 

[Tasha]

I'm interested in seeing the concrete evidence to prove abduction.

As whilst some people think they're involved, the rest think abduction. Why? Oh because that's what the McCanns said.

It's ALL speculation, no matter what your OPINION is on the matter....which everyone is entitled to form and shouldn't be name called as malicious and nasty for doing so.

Totally agree with this. It is all very well saying about speculation but considering there is no evidence of an abduction at all (no finger prints, no dna, no marks on a white washed wall despite supposedly going out through a (small) window with a child in their arms), so to me to talk about an abduction is speculation too.

 

[Tasha]

Personally I don't understand it either. Granted, this story hasn't had as much media attention over here... but I want to say I read somewhere that the resort they were at did have babysitting services that they turned down?

I know that some of the resorts we've gone to have babysitting services, but its during the day... not at night/dinner time. So they could've turned it down during the day and its getting misconstrued?

Either way, I don't understand leaving your kid like that. Most resorts will do room service, they could've easily had their dinner in the room where their kiddos were.

I'm so paranoid I don't even leave Claire in the house alone while I go to check our community mailboxes. Its a 2 min walk down the street but I just can't bring myself to do it!

There was a crèche service during the day which they used and at night there was a baby sitting service and a listening in service.

 

[lhancock90]

I haven't read the rest of the thread but personally, since day 1, i have always felt that Gerry and Kate McCann have always known exactly what happened to their daughter.
There is so much that doesn't add up, so much that conflicts, the only person with my sympathy is that beautiful little girl.

 

[JASMAK]

I really dont think they did it. They were visiting with alot of friends and they all took turns checking on all the children. Dont you think their friends would notice if the parents did something? They had lots of kids and adults in the group.

 

[Tasha]

Jasmak, they said they were checking but each parent said different things in relation to how often the children were checked (ranging from five minutes to thirty minutes, which is quite a bit difference to be getting mistaken over). They also didn't check each others children, only their own aside from once when another parent checked in on Maddie and the twins but he didn't see them, just stuck his head in and they weren't crying so left. So it is plausible that the others didn't know.

 

[Tasha]

Oh and I don't think they did something so it was a murder by the way, I believe there was an accident.

 

[lhancock90]

I think it was an accident and i do think SOME of the friends know. I just don't trust any of them.

 

[Tiff]

I'm still having a hard time wrapping my mind around leaving them alone in the apartment. I actually googled a bit last night to try and read up on it, main thing that keeps coming up is that the other authorities are re-opening the case?

What were the clues that made people think that Madeline has died? Why do the authorities believe she's still alive?

I also read that the first eyewitness of a man carrying a child has been discredited as it was another British holiday goer who was picking up his own child from the night Creche.

There's now a 2nd eye witness whom the authorities believe took Madeline? But wouldn't Madeline cry and fuss if some hulking stranger came into her room and tried to take her?

Man, I picked up my neighbour's 3 year old who always tries to run in front or behind of my daughter's school van and he let out a yowl like you would not believe! And he KNOWS me, but I invaded that "space" iykwim?

 

[Tasha]

I'm still having a hard time wrapping my mind around leaving them alone in the apartment. I actually googled a bit last night to try and read up on it, main thing that keeps coming up is that the other authorities are re-opening the case?

What were the clues that made people think that Madeline has died? Why do the authorities believe she's still alive?

I also read that the first eyewitness of a man carrying a child has been discredited as it was another British holiday goer who was picking up his own child from the night Creche.

There's now a 2nd eye witness whom the authorities believe took Madeline? But wouldn't Madeline cry and fuss if some hulking stranger came into her room and tried to take her?

Man, I picked up my neighbour's 3 year old who always tries to run in front or behind of my daughter's school van and he let out a yowl like you would not believe! And he KNOWS me, but I invaded that "space" iykwim?

I will try and answer point by point as there is a lot in there plus I will spoiler cos it could be upsetting to some and so it is a choice to read it or not iykwim.

Spoiler

* Yes the authorities have reopened the case due to new evidence.

* What made me think she had died? Well first and foremost the cadaver, yes that is just intelligence and not proof that she died but no one had died in that apartment and for it to be found in various locations in the apartment and in the hire car that they hired AFTER Maddie had gone missing would be extremely unlikely, not to mention on Kate's clothes (she said she was a GP and dealt with dead bodies so to be expected, which okay but who wears clothes to deal with dead bodies and then on holiday? plus she was only working two days a week as a locum so unlikely that she came in contact with dead bodies that much and also you don't go hugging them so it is some what suspicious that she says her patients would mean she had the smell on her), also cuddle cat had the smell too (Kate explained that by saying cuddle cat had gone to work with her, firstly who takes their childs comforter to work with them any way? But especially if they are working around illness and dead bodies, plus for the smell to be on the toy then what she do with it for it to be on there?). There was also blood found in the same places as the cadaver (they explained the blood and the smell of cavader in the boot of the car saying it was rotting steaks they had put in the boot who carries that around and even if that accounts for blood (Keela the blood dog was trained to look for human blood) it doesn't account for cavader).

Next is the probable DNA of Maddies found in the boot of the hire car (they said it was dirty nappies that they carried around in the trunk/boot but remember that they didn't have the hire car when they had Maddie and it was bodily fluid it came from), it had 15 out of 19 components match, in the UK that is enough to say it is a match but not in Portugal.

Then there is the lack of evidence of any sort of abduction. Not one single shred of evidence. First the Mccanns said that the door was locked and they had closed the window and shutter so the fact it was jemmed opened meant they took her through the window. The only finger print on there was Kate's, there was no evidence of it being forced open and there was zero DNA any where on the frame, no fibres from clothing, no marking on the walls. Considering that the person would of been climbing out a window with a four year old in their arms, you would think Maddie's hair (as it was down) would of touched the frame or that as they got out the window that their clothes would of touched, or as they climbed up the white washed walls that it would of left some sort of mark. But no, nothing. So then the story changed, they had left the door unlocked. I know it was a traumatic time but it was a pretty huge thing to get wrong and plus now the window being opened made even less sense.

There are other things, I could really be here all day but for now those are the main things.

* The authorities don't as far as I am aware, they keep an open mind. I know the UK police have said they do but the files from the Portuguese police say different, they live open the possibility of abduction (they would be silly not to as obviously a body hasn't been found) but the files do say about an accident that night.

* Yes it has been discredited. Interestingly Tanner's sighting become more clear after days, in particular after the Smith's sighting (the one they are now interested in) came forward. She was always a bit vague previous to that but now she could suddenly see the exact pattern on the girls PJ's (impossible given the lighting apparently).

IF someone came and took her (it is clear I don't think that) well it could be that she was sedated or had been given medication and therefore didn't fuss. Obviously no proof on that or anything but just a possible theory on it, for you.

Any way it is probably best not to try and google, there is a lot of 'pro-McCann's and anti McCanns' and both sides are responsible for a lot of half truths, exaggerations, full on lies even to try and influence others. If you want the link to the files then I can PM you), better to base your thoughts on that than the pro's, antis and the media, really.

 

[Tiff]

Sure, I'll check 'em out. Thank you!

 

[nic18]

can you pm me it to please my views are 100% the exact same as you Tasha!

 

[baby D]

me too please, Tasha xx

 

[JASMAK]

Jasmak, they said they were checking but each parent said different things in relation to how often the children were checked (ranging from five minutes to thirty minutes, which is quite a bit difference to be getting mistaken over). They also didn't check each others children, only their own aside from once when another parent checked in on Maddie and the twins but he didn't see them, just stuck his head in and they weren't crying so left. So it is plausible that the others didn't know.

Ok, even so....the possible crime gets unlikely the more people around. Its too many people involved.

 

[Foogirl]

It is important to understand, there doesn't need to be a cadaver to get a cadaver dog reaction. There can be many indicators the dogs will give. Just because they reacted in the apartment, does not mean there was a body in that apartment.

 

[zanDark]

It is important to understand, there doesn't need to be a cadaver to get a cadaver dog reaction. There can be many indicators the dogs will give. Just because they reacted in the apartment, does not mean there was a body in that apartment.

This is interesting. What sort of things (other than decaying meat products or raw meat products) can the cadaver dogs react to? Are they not trained like the dogs that sniff out drugs etc...or do they also sometimes react to other things as well when there are no drugs involved?

 

[Tiff]

My father works with cadaver dogs. He goes to fire scenes where there's been a fatality and the dogs will smell out the bodies and sit where they are buried under the rubble. They're quite accurate actually.

Tasha - Are you going to send those articles?