Controversial - Madeline McCann

[aliss]

I'm genuinely curious if people would care 7 years later if Madeline came from a "welfare" home or something similar? Because as much as people feel the McCanns are given some sort of grace by the media for their status, it also means people seem to care a lot more about Madeline too for the same reason. So, as much as people wish to hate the McCanns for being given "preferential" passes by the media, it is worth considering that threads like this also seem to show that the public's reaction tends to follow the same train of thought. What's "our' excuse? One of John Walsh's methods was to try and show the cases that people didn't care about - the poor child, the black child, the child nobody cares about.

Don't get me wrong, of course Madeline deserves to be found. But before we cry out against how the McCanns are treated so much better because of their status, don't forget that the reason the media cares is because that is what the public cares about too. The media only cares about what the public wants to buy. Sorry, but this thread demonstrates exactly that - nearly 7 years later, Madeline is at the top of the news. Elizabeth Smart (prior to her location), Polly Klaas. Did anyone give a shit about Gina Dejesus? No. Highway of Tears? Anyone heard of that? Probably not. Nobody gives a shit about native girls.

Not trying to get to philosophical here, but before we are quick to condemn the McCanns, we should be looking the mirror too.

 

[Pearls18]

I'm genuinely curious if people would care 7 years later if Madeline came from a "welfare" home or something similar? Because as much as people feel the McCanns are given some sort of grace by the media for their status, it also means people seem to care a lot more about Madeline too for the same reason. So, as much as people wish to hate the McCanns for being given "preferential" passes by the media, it is worth considering that threads like this also seem to show that the public's reaction tends to follow the same train of thought. What's "our' excuse? One of John Walsh's methods was to try and show the cases that people didn't care about - the poor child, the black child, the child nobody cares about.

Don't get me wrong, of course Madeline deserves to be found. But before we cry out against how the McCanns are treated so much better because of their status, don't forget that the reason the media cares is because that is what the public cares about too. The media only cares about what the public wants to buy. Sorry, but this thread demonstrates exactly that - nearly 7 years later, Madeline is at the top of the news. Elizabeth Smart (prior to her location), Polly Klaas. Did anyone give a shit about Gina Dejesus? No. Highway of Tears? Anyone heard of that? Probably not. Nobody gives a shit about native girls.

Not trying to get to philosophical here, but before we are quick to condemn the McCanns, we should be looking the mirror too.

This is exactly it, I said in a previous post that it is society, the authorities and the media that should be ashamed for the light this case is portrayed in compared to all the other missing children's cases out there, that is not the McCann's fault, the one thing you can not fault them for is having the power and will to use all the resources to their advantage to try and get Maddie back which is what surely any of us would do. I don't think many resent THEM for the way it has been handled, I have obviously expressed what I think about what their doing is in all of this and judge them for that, but my feelings for how the case has been carried on with this much might (although a good thing for Maddie of course) and what that says about us as a society is just that, a judgement of society, not the McCanns.

 

[sherple]

The family of Ben Needham are asking for government backing for the same assistance that has been given to the McCanns. Apparently no British police have even travelled to greece to investigate.

 

[zanDark]

The family of Ben Needham are asking for government backing for the same assistance that has been given to the McCanns. Apparently no British police have even travelled to greece to investigate.

Actually they have traveled to Kos to help with the search. If I recall correctly they worked with our police here to search specific sites where they believed he might have been buried accidentally.

The truth is that Bens parents have received more help from police and journalists here than in the UK and every once in a while a "sighting" or something pops up in the news. Last I heard his mother was fighting for a DNA testing on a man she suspects might be her son.

Unfortunately we do live in a world where people and media are more interested in the "saddest" story, or the story that people will be more interested in.

 

[Sarahkka]

I think condemning the McCanns is victim-blaming.
And no, Madeline is not the only victim. Her family has been dealing with her abduction for years now. The abductor is the criminal, not the parents.
It is very grim to hear how quickly we turn on each other in tragedies like this, rather than offer compassion and support.
It is very interesting how few people have commented that the abductor is perhaps the one all the rage should be focused on.

 

[zanDark]

I think condemning the McCanns is victim-blaming.
And no, Madeline is not the only victim. Her family has been dealing with her abduction for years now. The abductor is the criminal, not the parents.
It is very grim to hear how quickly we turn on each other in tragedies like this, rather than offer compassion and support.
It is very interesting how few people have commented that the abductor is perhaps the one all the rage should be focused on.

Not everyone believes that she was abducted though

The reason there are so many differing views on the entire incident is because everyone believes a different theory. If I believed the abduction story then I'd have the same opinion as you, but I personally believe that she either had an accident, or they gave her too much medication to sleep and was found too late. Of course I'm going to blame her parents for that as well as for the fact that they hid it to protect themselves and left their child's body in a foreign country.

It all depends on which scenario people believe and there is no wrong or right opinion since we're all going based on how we each interpret what we hear and read about the case.

 

[sherple]

I think condemning the McCanns is victim-blaming.
And no, Madeline is not the only victim. Her family has been dealing with her abduction for years now. The abductor is the criminal, not the parents.
It is very grim to hear how quickly we turn on each other in tragedies like this, rather than offer compassion and support.
It is very interesting how few people have commented that the abductor is perhaps the one all the rage should be focused on.

Not everyone believes that she was abducted though

The reason there are so many differing views on the entire incident is because everyone believes a different theory. If I believed the abduction story then I'd have the same opinion as you, but I personally believe that she either had an accident, or they gave her too much medication to sleep and was found too late. Of course I'm going to blame her parents for that as well as for the fact that they hid it to protect themselves and left their child's body in a foreign country.

It all depends on which scenario people believe and there is no wrong or right opinion since we're all going based on how we each interpret what we hear and read about the case.

Im not sure about this theory personally because why would they keep on and on pushing for answers if there was a chance they could be discovered as the culprits? Surely they would just let it fizzle out and not take it to parliament to fight for the met to investigate?

 

[Pearls18]

I think condemning the McCanns is victim-blaming.
And no, Madeline is not the only victim. Her family has been dealing with her abduction for years now. The abductor is the criminal, not the parents.
It is very grim to hear how quickly we turn on each other in tragedies like this, rather than offer compassion and support.
It is very interesting how few people have commented that the abductor is perhaps the one all the rage should be focused on.

For me it is because they allowed the abduction to take place and it was avoidable, I would be interested to know how people would feel if Madeleine had been sick and choked and died due to the fact there was no adult supervising, or if she had let herself out and wondered into the road and got run over, would people who don't blame the McCanns feel the same? Because there is no abductor to blame, but amounts to the same thing, their lack of responsibility has indirectly led to her death. It's not as black and white to just concentrate on the bad guy, we know we live in a world with criminals, we need to protect our children against them as much as we do moving vehicles, sickness etc we won't always succeed, we can't control everything, but their situation could have been controlled better. I think if they showed a bit more remorse about the decisions they made, and as someone else has said perhaps implored people not to do what they did the humanity in me would kick in more to let it go, but I find it unnatural to blame only one person in this mainly due to their disregard for their actions.

 

[nic18]

I personally don't think she was taken, I think she died and the McCanns know exactly what happened. there is another thread on this I will get the link to, and someone left a link to a website about how there was no evidence anyone else (abductor) were in the house.

 

[nic18]

https://babyandbump.momtastic.com/general-chatter/606165-kate-mccann-releasing-book.html

 

[Lara310809]

...It is very interesting how few people have commented that the abductor is perhaps the one all the rage should be focused on.

i personally think that the parents are as much to blame as the abductor. Obviously the abductor is a vile human being, but he was a criminal with an opportunity. The parents shouldn't have given him/her that opportunity; or at least not such a huge and obvious one. I don't for one moment think the McCanns are blameless in all of this.

You take your eyes off your kids at the beach for one second and one of them is swept out to sea; you are partially to blame for not having seen it and raised the alarm. You let go of your child's hand momentarily to retrieve something from your bag and the run into the road and get hit by a car; you are partially at fault. The fact is that they weren't fully caring for their kids at the time, and that helped the criminal commit his crime.

 

[Foogirl]

I don't blame them. I don't think it is important whether people forgive them or not. The part they played in their situation will be on their own conscience for the rest of their lives and it is down to them whether they forgive themselves or not.

I don't think they did the right thing. I don't think it was a mistake, it was a conscious decision where most right thinking parents would have alarm bells ringing. I don't think you can liken it to "turning your back for a moment" which is something unavoidable. They should have known better - no matter what their profession or social status. The fact they are both Doctors is irrelevant. I'm certain there are some Street Sweepers out there who know it's not the right thing to do.

I think its unfair to say there is only interest in the story because of their social standing and their jobs. A three year old goes missing in this way and the world pays attention. There was a lot of interest in the Ben Needham case but it is worth remembering that happened before the days of rolling 24 hour news. Look at the April Jones case? That was massive news. Sara Payne. Jessica and Holly. They weren't from wealthy families. Shannon Matthews? Going back decades, Caroline Hogg, Susan Maxwell - all from different backgrounds but still the press played out the stories.

It is true lots of children go missing every day, but statistically over 90% of them will be abducted by family members. This kind of "snatched by a stranger" abduction is very rare and when it happens, it is a story. Do you really think we wouldn't still be hearing about Jessica and Holly, or April Jones if their bodies hadn't been found?

It's too easy to jump on the middle class doctor part of the story when the reality is, it is largely irrelevant to the story.

 

[Pearls18]

I don't blame them. I don't think it is important whether people forgive them or not. The part they played in their situation will be on their own conscience for the rest of their lives and it is down to them whether they forgive themselves or not.

I don't think they did the right thing. I don't think it was a mistake, it was a conscious decision where most right thinking parents would have alarm bells ringing. I don't think you can liken it to "turning your back for a moment" which is something unavoidable. They should have known better - no matter what their profession or social status. The fact they are both Doctors is irrelevant. I'm certain there are some Street Sweepers out there who know it's not the right thing to do.

I think its unfair to say there is only interest in the story because of their social standing and their jobs. A three year old goes missing in this way and the world pays attention. There was a lot of interest in the Ben Needham case but it is worth remembering that happened before the days of rolling 24 hour news. Look at the April Jones case? That was massive news. Sara Payne. Jessica and Holly. They weren't from wealthy families. Shannon Matthews? Going back decades, Caroline Hogg, Susan Maxwell - all from different backgrounds but still the press played out the stories.

It is true lots of children go missing every day, but statistically over 90% of them will be abducted by family members. This kind of "snatched by a stranger" abduction is very rare and when it happens, it is a story. Do you really think we wouldn't still be hearing about Jessica and Holly, or April Jones if their bodies hadn't been found?

It's too easy to jump on the middle class doctor part of the story when the reality is, it is largely irrelevant to the story.

So do you think then that if, as has already been said, a lower class family who were in say a butlins, left their children in a room, unlocked, and then went to the pub around the corner and a child was snatched the media would interpret it exactly as they have done with the McCanns? I know they wouldn't. In the media class does play a part, it's just the way it is. The girls you mention fit the perfect profile for the cute little white girls that gets the press stirring, yes you have a point about the stranger aspect, but around London you will often see in local press about young children from ethnic minorities going missing, around Uxbridge I would say it happens once a month, never once is it national news. I assume (hope) these cases are resolved quickly, but April Jones was in the national media the day she went missing, so it's not like the media waited out until it was definitely a long term case.

 

[IsabellaJayne]

i believe they overdosed her by mistake (as its believed they drugged their children often to get them to sleep) and covered it up. And now they're in too deep.

That's my personal opinion.

 

[Sarahkka]

I think condemning the McCanns is victim-blaming.
And no, Madeline is not the only victim. Her family has been dealing with her abduction for years now. The abductor is the criminal, not the parents.
It is very grim to hear how quickly we turn on each other in tragedies like this, rather than offer compassion and support.
It is very interesting how few people have commented that the abductor is perhaps the one all the rage should be focused on.

Not everyone believes that she was abducted though

The reason there are so many differing views on the entire incident is because everyone believes a different theory. If I believed the abduction story then I'd have the same opinion as you, but I personally believe that she either had an accident, or they gave her too much medication to sleep and was found too late. Of course I'm going to blame her parents for that as well as for the fact that they hid it to protect themselves and left their child's body in a foreign country.

It all depends on which scenario people believe and there is no wrong or right opinion since we're all going based on how we each interpret what we hear and read about the case.

Those are some pretty massive and nasty speculations. Based on what? Some sensationalist "news" reporting?
This isn't some whodunnit on TV. The McCanns are real people with feelings. Speculating like that is awful. It's really vindictive, mean-spirited gossip-mongering. These people have lost their child. Suggesting that they murdered her is pretty outrageous. If there were evidence to support what you are saying, something would have been done about it.
I find it incredible how many on here are casually, yet confidently, stating this as though it's factual. Again, where is the compassion?

 

[Sarahkka]

...It is very interesting how few people have commented that the abductor is perhaps the one all the rage should be focused on.

i personally think that the parents are as much to blame as the abductor. Obviously the abductor is a vile human being, but he was a criminal with an opportunity. The parents shouldn't have given him/her that opportunity; or at least not such a huge and obvious one. I don't for one moment think the McCanns are blameless in all of this.

You take your eyes off your kids at the beach for one second and one of them is swept out to sea; you are partially to blame for not having seen it and raised the alarm. You let go of your child's hand momentarily to retrieve something from your bag and the run into the road and get hit by a car; you are partially at fault. The fact is that they weren't fully caring for their kids at the time, and that helped the criminal commit his crime.

So anyone who gets robbed/raped/criminally victimzed somehow "is as much to blame" as their opportunistic criminal? They made it easy for them and should really blame themselves for their own violation? The public demonizing of this couple reminds me of rape victims who get to go through hell in a totally different way as they are socially ostracized and judged because someone violated them. It's just wrong to act this way towards others. I certainly would not have made the choice that the McCanns did that night, but I am not going to sit here and harp on about what awful people and parents they were. They made a bad call and they are paying for it in the worst way possible. The lack of compassion for their situation is kind of staggering.
The April Jones case generated a thread just like this. People could not wait to pile on and rant about how her parents had made the mistake of letting her out past 7pm. As if that was the reason she was victimized. She was abducted and murdered because a sick individual targeted her. He is the one who did something wrong. Not the victim. Not her family.
Look, I get that the disappearance of any child is tragic and emotional, whether we know the family or not. But vilifying these parents this way - what does it accomplish? Does it make us feel superior somehow? Do we need to get some kind of weird comfort by feeling that this must have happened because they are bad people? And the rampant salacious speculation - not a side of human nature I think we should be proud of, quite frankly. I'd rather live in a world in which we offer support and compassion to each other when tragedy strikes, not lash out at each other.

 

[zanDark]

Those are some pretty massive and nasty speculations. Based on what? Some sensationalist "news" reporting?
This isn't some whodunnit on TV. The McCanns are real people with feelings. Speculating like that is awful. It's really vindictive, mean-spirited gossip-mongering. These people have lost their child. Suggesting that they murdered her is pretty outrageous. If there were evidence to support what you are saying, something would have been done about it.
I find it incredible how many on here are casually, yet confidently, stating this as though it's factual. Again, where is the compassion?

First of all I think we can all express our opinions without being called nasty, vindictive, mean-spirited and gossips I guess resorting to name calling and insults instead of calmly expressing your opinion is the opposite of all those things you are insinuating about me?

Yes the McCanns are real people with real feelings...but in my mind, all the reports I've heard and read with the cadaver dogs, witness statements etc are enough to make me lean towards what I believe. I can't know what happened none of us can which is why I said that we all interpret what we see and hear differently and there is no right or wrong opinion.

BTW their daughter was (is?) a real person with real feelings as well...and even if she was abducted and her parents had nothing to do with it...they still chose to leave her distressed ALONE night after night. And that's not speculation, it's straight from them. So where's the compassion for the little girl that wanted her parents and was sedated so they could enjoy their dinners and vacation? I'm sorry but that doesn't sound like good parenting to me! I'm all for parents enjoying themselves and going out, but sedating your kids and leaving them alone in a strange place just crosses a line for me....and I imagine it crosses a line for most people which just makes it a bit more difficult for people to sympathize with them And btw if you read my very first post in this thread I do mention that even though I disagree with their parenting techniques, I do feel bad for them and the consequence they have to pay for their actions.


Seriously...we can all have different opinions without insulting each other . I'm not big on name calling or insulting others, nor do I care for conversations with people that think that being impolite makes their points clearer...I just wanted to reply since you took the time to reply to me and now I'm going to bow out since there is no need to repeat myself or sit around being insulted. :wave:

 

[Sarahkka]

Those are some pretty massive and nasty speculations. Based on what? Some sensationalist "news" reporting?
This isn't some whodunnit on TV. The McCanns are real people with feelings. Speculating like that is awful. It's really vindictive, mean-spirited gossip-mongering. These people have lost their child. Suggesting that they murdered her is pretty outrageous. If there were evidence to support what you are saying, something would have been done about it.
I find it incredible how many on here are casually, yet confidently, stating this as though it's factual. Again, where is the compassion?

First of all I think we can all express our opinions without being called nasty, vindictive, mean-spirited and gossips I guess resorting to name calling and insults instead of calmly expressing your opinion is the opposite of all those things you are insinuating about me?

Yes the McCanns are real people with real feelings...but in my mind, all the reports I've heard and read with the cadaver dogs, witness statements etc are enough to make me lean towards what I believe. I can't know what happened none of us can which is why I said that we all interpret what we see and hear differently and there is no right or wrong opinion.

BTW their daughter was (is?) a real person with real feelings as well...and even if she was abducted and her parents had nothing to do with it...they still chose to leave her distressed ALONE night after night. And that's not speculation, it's straight from them. So where's the compassion for the little girl that wanted her parents and was sedated so they could enjoy their dinners and vacation? I'm sorry but that doesn't sound like good parenting to me! I'm all for parents enjoying themselves and going out, but sedating your kids and leaving them alone in a strange place just crosses a line for me....and I imagine it crosses a line for most people which just makes it a bit more difficult for people to sympathize with them And btw if you read my very first post in this thread I do mention that even though I disagree with their parenting techniques, I do feel bad for them and the consequence they have to pay for their actions.


Seriously...we can all have different opinions without insulting each other . I'm not big on name calling or insulting others, nor do I care for conversations with people that think that being impolite makes their points clearer...I just wanted to reply since you took the time to reply to me and now I'm going to bow out since there is no need to repeat myself or sit around being insulted. :wave:

I wasn't name-calling. I was calling a spade a spade.
What you call "interpreting opinions differently", I call rampant and irresponsible speculation. Also known as gossipmongering, and in this case, very close to slander. Which traditionally, is not considered a very nice thing to do and is pretty distasteful considering the situation. You certainly aren't the only one on here to do so, but it doesn't make it okay. Please - provide some actual evidence (not your "interpretation" of sensationalistic media reports) to support these remarks and I will withdraw my comments and make you a very humble and heartfelt apology. Otherwise, this kind of speculation does nothing but create more hurt and misery in an already awful situation.
You and I both agree that we would have made a different parenting choice than the McCanns did, but I won't read posts suggesting that they were responsible for her actual murder and not challenge them. You are not awful or vindictive, but that type of thinking and speculating is. And please re-read my reply to you. I am calling out your actions, not you. There is an important difference.

 

[Lara310809]

...It is very interesting how few people have commented that the abductor is perhaps the one all the rage should be focused on.

i personally think that the parents are as much to blame as the abductor. Obviously the abductor is a vile human being, but he was a criminal with an opportunity. The parents shouldn't have given him/her that opportunity; or at least not such a huge and obvious one. I don't for one moment think the McCanns are blameless in all of this.

You take your eyes off your kids at the beach for one second and one of them is swept out to sea; you are partially to blame for not having seen it and raised the alarm. You let go of your child's hand momentarily to retrieve something from your bag and the run into the road and get hit by a car; you are partially at fault. The fact is that they weren't fully caring for their kids at the time, and that helped the criminal commit his crime.

So anyone who gets robbed/raped/criminally victimzed somehow "is as much to blame" as their opportunistic criminal? They made it easy for them and should really blame themselves for their own violation? The public demonizing of this couple reminds me of rape victims who get to go through hell in a totally different way as they are socially ostracized and judged because someone violated them. It's just wrong to act this way towards others. I certainly would not have made the choice that the McCanns did that night, but I am not going to sit here and harp on about what awful people and parents they were. They made a bad call and they are paying for it in the worst way possible. The lack of compassion for their situation is kind of staggering.
The April Jones case generated a thread just like this. People could not wait to pile on and rant about how her parents had made the mistake of letting her out past 7pm. As if that was the reason she was victimized. She was abducted and murdered because a sick individual targeted her. He is the one who did something wrong. Not the victim. Not her family.
Look, I get that the disappearance of any child is tragic and emotional, whether we know the family or not. But vilifying these parents this way - what does it accomplish? Does it make us feel superior somehow? Do we need to get some kind of weird comfort by feeling that this must have happened because they are bad people? And the rampant salacious speculation - not a side of human nature I think we should be proud of, quite frankly. I'd rather live in a world in which we offer support and compassion to each other when tragedy strikes, not lash out at each other.

i never said that. But if someone is robbed or pick pocketed through their own stupidity, i.e. Leaving their wallet in their back pocket, or their bag unzipped with their iPod in plain sight, then yes, I believe they are partially at fault. You have to accept some responsibility for your actions; especially when you haven't taken the care that other people have to avoid the same crime. And than you for putting words in my mouth, but I don't believe rape is ever the victim's fault - if you don't or can't express your consent to sex, then it's rape. I would never say a rape victim was guilty of helping it happen, because I just don't believe that's possible. But this is a different scenario.

And as for April Jones, I don't know much about the case, but I certainly wouldn't let a five year old daughter of mine go outside without adult supervision past 7pm; past 5pm actually. I realise an abduction can happen during broad daylight (there was an attempted abduction at my daughter's school a few weeks ago, at midday, in front of all the teachers and over 100 parents, so I'm aware it happens), but it's MORE likely to happen when most people are indoors in the evenings. I live in a far safer place than England, and even I wouldn't let my kids roam free like that. You have a child and you vow to protect them, not put them into potentially harmful situations.

And who said I have a lack of compassion for the McCanns? My heart goes out to them, BUT I wouldn't waste as much time feeling sorry for them as feeling sorry for Madeleine. She wasn't the one that went out for dinner, she wasn't the one who left the apartment unlocked for anyone to walk in. She was the true victim in this; the person that did NOTHING wrong and paid the price for someone else's misjudgement.

And I don't for one minute think the McCanns are bad people. I hope you're speaking generally, because if you're replying solely to my response, then you've misunderstood everything I've said. I simply said that they made a massive lapse of judgement, and that their parenting techniques should be questioned. Pi don't think they're bad people though; they're GPs and I'd still trust them with my health concerns if I was on their patient roll. I certainly wouldn't trust them to look after my children though; would YOU? I think you'd be hard pushed to find a parent who would be happy leaving their kids with the McCanns after something like this, and that (to me) shows that the public doubt their parenting capabilities.

I still respect them and listen to what they have to say; I just think it could have been avoided so easily. I never implied I went around slagging them off to all of sundry, because I realise they made a mistake and are paying for it. It's just a mistake that shouldn't have been allowed to happen, because they should have thought about it. Had they even taken a second to consider what might have happened during their absence (and by that I mean a child vomiting and choking, or a child waking and crying for them; I don't necessarily mean abduction), they wouldn't have left the apartments that evening. Any sane parent would have stayed much closer and actually looked after their sick child... Or at least used the night crèche!

And for the record, not because you have said it, but because a lot of people on this thread are saying it, and I just want to state that I feel differently - I don't believe there is any foul play in this. I do believe it was an abduction, and not a case of accidental death.

 

[sue_88]

Those are some pretty massive and nasty speculations. Based on what? Some sensationalist "news" reporting?
This isn't some whodunnit on TV. The McCanns are real people with feelings. Speculating like that is awful. It's really vindictive, mean-spirited gossip-mongering. These people have lost their child. Suggesting that they murdered her is pretty outrageous. If there were evidence to support what you are saying, something would have been done about it.
I find it incredible how many on here are casually, yet confidently, stating this as though it's factual. Again, where is the compassion?

First of all I think we can all express our opinions without being called nasty, vindictive, mean-spirited and gossips I guess resorting to name calling and insults instead of calmly expressing your opinion is the opposite of all those things you are insinuating about me?

Yes the McCanns are real people with real feelings...but in my mind, all the reports I've heard and read with the cadaver dogs, witness statements etc are enough to make me lean towards what I believe. I can't know what happened none of us can which is why I said that we all interpret what we see and hear differently and there is no right or wrong opinion.

BTW their daughter was (is?) a real person with real feelings as well...and even if she was abducted and her parents had nothing to do with it...they still chose to leave her distressed ALONE night after night. And that's not speculation, it's straight from them. So where's the compassion for the little girl that wanted her parents and was sedated so they could enjoy their dinners and vacation? I'm sorry but that doesn't sound like good parenting to me! I'm all for parents enjoying themselves and going out, but sedating your kids and leaving them alone in a strange place just crosses a line for me....and I imagine it crosses a line for most people which just makes it a bit more difficult for people to sympathize with them And btw if you read my very first post in this thread I do mention that even though I disagree with their parenting techniques, I do feel bad for them and the consequence they have to pay for their actions.


Seriously...we can all have different opinions without insulting each other . I'm not big on name calling or insulting others, nor do I care for conversations with people that think that being impolite makes their points clearer...I just wanted to reply since you took the time to reply to me and now I'm going to bow out since there is no need to repeat myself or sit around being insulted. :wave:

I agree with you.

The cadaver dogs is EVIDENCE enough for me to suggest some serious foul play went on. Human blood found in the apartment, on Kate's clothes, in their rental car.

https://www.mccannfiles.com/id161.html