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Awwww, BabyD another lovely bump!

I'm getting so jealous now, grow baby grow! (Although I will regret saying that in a few months time!)
 
im sky+ing the panorama thing, thought it would just annoy me too much.

Spoken to doula who was just rly supportive, talked to her about the appt and she said how it was disgusting that they dont talk to me like an educated human being etc. Ive done my research and was asking for information from them which they refused to give because of pettyness and rule following.

So the plan is to not go to any more clinic appts until my blood glucose looks like its going high, theyre just a total waste of time. Ive been to three so far and theyve not told me anything at all which i didnt know. will go to the usual community MW appts for wee testing etc. If my sugars do go high Im not going to the consultant, Ill see the diabetic team and that is it.

Im also strongly leaning towards refusing the growth scans at 28 32 and 36w. Consultant today hinted that they would want to induce me if i had a big baby which is against the guidelines (also the scans can be 1lb out either way so not much use). I just need to do a bit of research to find out if there is any useful information to be gleaned from the scans, Id ask the consultant but I would have to double check what she said anyway so whats the point.

Im not against having the scans per se but I dont want to get to 38w and go in for daily monitoring with them pressuring me to induce all the time. Itll just give them extra ammunition and really what information does it tell them apart from the size which is probably wrong anyway. I can deal with the pressure and will just say no thankyou to the inductions but the stress is not going to be conducive for me being in a nice calm place where my body knows its safe to go into labour, itll think shit theres a threat better clamp down.

your town visit sounds a bit stressful,school holidays are such a bad idea arent they! They should stagger them based on area or something.

Let me know if the panorama thing is worth watching!
 
It's worth watching to give you ammunition against induction! Although saying that my friend at the end was induced, but she always goes over with her girlies, they like to be proper cooked :lol:

It was good, Luke was shocked though at what can happen :( I think every woman was induced though?

Maybe compromise with the scans Helen? Go to the 32 week one and see what happens so you have some idea, and also get a little peek at bubba and can be reassured on the sex too :)

My town is a nightmare, to stagger the holiday's they'd have to do it throughout the country! Penzance doesn't get as bad as St Ives though, you can't move there on a sunny day!
 
oh ive got plenty of ammo against it for my particular situation! Not even started with if I go overdue :p I cant decide with the growth scans tbh. Theres no real point in just going to one as they need to compare them to look for growth spurts, but the only reason I would have a growth spurt is if my bloods arent controlled, and if they arent I just go on insulin and get em back down. Rich has said he'd like to see the baby at the 32w one but I might just get a sneaky private 4d one instead. Just gonna see how I go really.

I might just tell them ive become a strict vegan therefore cannot be given any synthetic oxytocin as its an animal product lol.

Its just so boring to have to go on about bloody induction all the time, if you went into a Drs with angina they wouldnt say lets book your heart surgery in because theres a risk of this developing into a heart attack, theyd treat the bloody angina and give you all the risks and options. Am NOT going to worry about it any more.

Thats what I mean about the summer hols, maybe schools starting with a-e can have their hols in June, f-m in July, n-z in august. Im putting that in the idea hat with the food in pill form!
 
Hi all!
Rachel, OMG I can't believe Isobel still uses a kiddie potty!!! That's ridiculous! Her mom and OH sound like they really are just lazy. Can't stand when people just sit on their asses and let everyone else to it for them!

Jayne, glad you've got a scan coming up. I'm sure baby's doing just fine! :)

Helen, awww man! At least you get another look Saturday. More time to see baby! :) I have another ultrasound next week for them to check the heart better (original scan was at 19w4d) because it was a little early to see everything. I had to do mine a little early though because we were gone on vacation during week 20. That's definitely annoying to take that much time off work and have nothing done!

Jade and BabyDeacon, great bump pics! Looking beautiful and definitely not a whale! lol

Leigh, glad you're finally doing a little better! :) I need a sign that says that most of the time, too! lol
 
I forgot to tell you all the cutest thing! Last night I was reading in "What to Expect" and it said that this week baby can notice light. It said you can put a flashlight up to your tummy and baby will move from it. I tried it when I went to bed last night, and it really worked! I felt kinda mean because obviously Gus was sleeping, and I was shining a bright light into his little world, but it was still really cool! And the book said he can hear us now, so I made Nick talk to him. It was sooooo sweet watching him carry on a conversation with my stomach! :) I can't wait til Nick can feel the kicks!
 
The light thing is totally true! A lady in my home birth group had a breech a few weeks ago and was told to shine a torch in the bikini line. Baby turned!
 
Morning ladies.

Wow lots of things being discussed here.

Jade and BabyD, WICKED bumps. Mines not like that LOL. I still feel like its too high up! Ill post a pic later today.

GTT: Ive been told to arrive at 8.30, they take blood then you sit for an hour and they give you a fizzy drink then they take blood again after the hour and then you go home. Simple. GD is nothing major, nothing to worry about and Im not panicking or stressing. I dont even know if I have it yet and if I do, they will monitor and make sure baby and I are ok.

Helen, you seem to have so much planned what with ammo and views and opinions. I got the impression your birth plan was wonderful home birth with doula, relaxed and a smooth run up to the birth and to enjoy your pregnancy. Im getting confused with all the scan, induction, consultant, gtt and other talk it seems more stressful for you :(

x
 
sunshine623 said:
I forgot to tell you all the cutest thing! Last night I was reading in "What to Expect" and it said that this week baby can notice light. It said you can put a flashlight up to your tummy and baby will move from it. I tried it when I went to bed last night, and it really worked! I felt kinda mean because obviously Gus was sleeping, and I was shining a bright light into his little world, but it was still really cool! And the book said he can hear us now, so I made Nick talk to him. It was sooooo sweet watching him carry on a conversation with my stomach! :) I can't wait til Nick can feel the kicks!
Click to expand...

Yes my books mention the light thing too, voices, sounds, light etc. I cant see anything on the outside of my tummy yet or feel it so Pete wont be able to either which is a shame. Kitty was very active yesterday which was nice. She liked the grapes I ate cold from the fridge, made her wiggle lol.

Plans today, crochet some more and chill (again).

True Blood was wicked! Loved it, lots going on too. I felt so sorry for Tommy but I fear its not the end of that ;)

X
 
I'd love to have a stress free pregnancy and all that. The thing is I have to deal with them telling me untruths at every appt and not giving me balanced views. If I don't stand up for myself it won't be the natural birth which i want. Aim is to get it all sorted so that when I go for monitoring at 38w+ it won't be a stressful onslaught with them trying force me into induction every day.

I'm writing them a letter today about it all. Will help to get it all out.
 
Who are you writing to? I dont understand why this is happening to you to be honest :(

x
 
The hospital have a policy that they induce all women under the diabetic team at 38w. This includes people with gd. It's quite a common policy but not based on fact. The people who write the pre-guidance say it's based on what they've always done rather than actual evidence

They say it's because of the increased risk of still births but those stats include babies born at 28w (more chance of congenital problems if you have higher blood sugar before 12w). The studies are ridiculously weak. There are studies showing that induction at 38w and monitoring for problems have the same outcome. I'm asking for monitoring rather than go straight to induction

They don't give me a balanced view about it at all. I tried to have a talk to them yesterday about the alternatives and the dr told me they never do monitoring. Nice guidelines state that all hospitals should offer monitoring as an alternative to induction.

I hope that's clear. I'll write the letter later and post it here. Might make things a bit clearer.
 
Hello everyone,

Lovely bumps girls.

Helen, I understand you are becoming stressed with the whole issue, and I really hope you get to have a Home Birth, however I do think it is important that you remain open-minded, at the end of the day labour is very unpredicable and it can also be very dangerous, as much as you would like a home birth it may just not be possible. I too am considering home birth and at the end of the day it is your right to have the baby where you choose but it is also important to remember that the safety of both you and the baby has to be priority. I'm sure you know this already.

Lastly and I don't mean to speak out of turn, but please remember that although you have had some 'difficult and unsupportive' situations arise through your prenatal care and you obviously have some prejudice against the system, (I can understand that to some degree) but the other ladies on here have chosen to put their trust and faith in the midwifery system and will be using a hospital for their labour, birth and after care. I'm just worried that some people, perhaps those who haven't had children before might become fearful and put off by a very biased view of things. At the end of the day there is a place for hospitals and care professionals in our country, they do a very difficult job and are very under resourced, as we have all learnt, but we wouldn't want to be without them would we?

Anyway, this is just my opinion, I am entitled to discuss it, I hope I haven't come across badly and I hope you can understand what I have said in the way it was meant. Han Xxx
 
I think that was well put Han and I agree. I feel for you Helen but I feel that your strong opinions and set plan is perhaps causing more trouble for you than needed and upsetting you unnecessarily? Midwives and staff are there to support you, your plans and what you want as best they can, not work against you which perhaps you think they are as you seem so out to get them? Writing a letter, I feel, wont help. Thats what your birth plan is for. To express you personal preferences. If they can, they adhere to it.

I would love a home birth but being a first time Mum with no previous labour experience I feel for me it would not be my option at this stage. Fighting against staff and their professional opinions might not be the best way to go hence why I have taken it all in my stride and have kept an open mind with ALL aspects of pregnancy. Hospitals arent evil and whilst its been in the media a lot lately, I still put my faith in Leeds General although I do appreciate all hospitals arent the same.

Do you actually have GD, Ive looked back quite a way and cant see where you told us? I havent been told at all that gd patients are induced at 38 weeks at our hospital. I have a gtt for gd in September and dont see what the problem is? You have it, they deal with it the best they can. If they have to induce you because youre in trouble or ill health then surely thats better than you or your baby suffering?

X
 
I totally get where you're coming from. Maybe I'm being too strong about my views in here. I did start with a very open mind about my care and am not anti hospital at all. I have been treated very badly and truly believe that the entire maternity system is broken. I have been given one sided information and that seriously worries me. They are supposed to make sure that we have informed consent and in my situation they don't care. They refuse to answer simple questions such as where scans are done and if I hadn't thought to do my own research I would be none the wiser

I am talking about in my own specific situation tho and as things currently stand. There are many good reasons for induction and nothing is safe but often it is by far the safest option in a lot of situations. I have no problem with interventions if they're needed but they're just not needed as things currently stand in my situation.

I dont actually think I'm being biased. I've looked at the research and guidelines and made an informed decision based on evidence. There are guidelines written for what they should do when diabetic women refuse induction so it's not an uncommon situation.
 
I'll write more later. Have my stats etc at home which will explain things.
 
If thats the case then your treatment has been poor and Ive never come across anyone else thats had this happen at all, its appalling.

I was given leaflets to show where my scans would be, what floor etc and how to get there. Most people Ive dealt with have been helpful and happy to give me information. Theres no need for them not to help. Perhaps, talking to your midwife and explaining all this will help, my midwife is happy to do things on my behalf like phone calls, meetings etc. If shes not doing that for you, change midwives.

More info would be helpful as we all want to support each other here and its not nice to have someone being treated badly.
x
 
I'm really sorry you are having a shit time with it all Helen, glad you read my post in the way it was meant. I know that there is a vast difference in the level of care you get at different hospitals. Maybe you should go in and have a big chat with your midwife, tell her all your concerns and then if your still unhappy maybe change midwives. You need to have someone from the hospital who understands your needs and preferences, becuase at the end of the day if you do need to go in, there should be a good overall history of what you need/want in your green notes and birth plan etc.

Regarding being biased, yes you seem to have done research but the problem is research can be reviewed and disected very spuriously and often fact isn't fact, so therefore it can be viewed in a bias way. For example I am from the 'no vaccination camp' yet there is alot of statistics and research that tells me that I should be vacinating my children, however there is also alot of research, on the same statistics, presented in a different way telling me I shouldn't vacinate, it depends which way you look at it.

Thanks for taking on board what I said re any concern or worry your views may raise, I appreciate that. Xxxx
 
Heres my letter to them. I dont know if Ill send it but it stops the info bouncing around in my head at least. Ive not included specific references to studies but theres plenty out there if you want to look. Will spoiler it so its not a massive wall of text.

I would like to complain about the treatment I have been receiving since being referred to the specialist Diabetic Obstrition Clinic at St Michaels Hospital in Bristol. There have been a number of issues and I have been hoping that each one would be the last and things would go smoothly from then, but more issues crop up and I am not prepared to receive treatment like this any more. It is stressful and I have lost all trust in the ability of the team to treat me.
My first contact with the hospitals system was when my Community Midwife called me on a Wednesday saying that they had just that day received a fax saying that I needed to be booked in asap for my clinic appt on the Monday. I had informed the clinic along with my GP that I was pregnant 4 weeks earlier. I had to attend my booking in appt with less than one days notice, unprepared and without the support of my partner as he wasn’t given enough notice to get the time off work – I didn’t even get the message until 6.30pm on the Wednesday and she wanted me there Thursday morning.
At my booking in appointment I was given incorrect information about what scans I would have, the Midwife told me that as I was having my dating scan at 8weeks I wouldn’t get anything else until 20w as they don’t do NT scans for anyone. I said that I would probably go ahead and get a private 12w scan for reassurance then, she went on to tell me how dangerous scans are and that I shouldn’t have them for the health of the baby. I know there is a line of thought that the ultrasounds are unsafe, but the number of scans I have had/will have on the NHS I cant believe that an extra one would cause that much more damage. This was alarmist and upset me.
It turned out that I DO get a NT scan and the Midwife was just not up to speed on current procedures, it makes me wonder what else she got wrong.
At my first clinic appointment at 8weeks I was informed that I would need to be induced at 40 week. I showed concern about this, but was told that it was due to ‘the very real risk of still birth’. No further information was offered. I went away without the information to make an informed decision about my care.
Around 10 weeks I was sent an appointment for an eye scan at the eye hospital. I am unable to make the only times which they have which is on a Friday morning between 8 and 11am. The eye hospital advised me to get referred to another hospital, I called the clinic and was told that I had no other choice, there was nowhere else I could be referred. This means I will go without apparently essential screening. If it is so important then why have such restrictive hours for the screening? I cancelled my appointment as I would not be able to make it, I was sent another in the post with a heading saying I had failed to attend my previous appointment and no more would be sent if I DNA again. I had called and cancelled so do not appreciate being told that I am wasting NHS resources.
This may have been done by my Community Midwife (at Nailsea Family Practice) or the clinic, I am not sure – around this time I noticed that on my maternity notes, it had been ticked to say that my birthing options have been discussed and consultant led birth has been agreed on. This certainly has not been discussed nor agreed. I was told that I would have to have an induction at 40w whatever the status of my diabetes, however, my options if I went into labour pre-40w were not discussed at all. I have altered my notes as I do not want everyone thinking that I have agreed to something with full informed consent.
At my second appointment at 12 weeks I was again told of the need to induce me, this time at 38 weeks. I was also told that my blood sugar would most likely shoot up by my next appointment at 16 weeks. At 16 weeks I had a third appointment and my blood sugar was still under control. I discovered that my HBA1c at 12 weeks had been 5.2 mmol (lower than pre pregnancy) which is a non-diabetic level meaning the fetus had a much lower chance of developing any congenital defects which may lead to stillbirth or complications after birth. I was again reminded that I would be induced at 38w. Again, no discussion as to why this was needed.
As I hadn’t had a great experience at my first midwife appointment I decided that I would like to see the other midwife in the practice. I made the appointment on a day when I knew that she would be seeing me and made it clear that I wanted to see her specifically. I arrived and was told that the midwife I wanted to see was on holiday (something she surely knew a while beforehand) and I would be seeing the midwife I saw at booking in. At my 16 week midwife appointment she was unable to tell me specific information about local services. I asked about any council run exercise schemes for pregnant women and she had no information about this. I later found out that I can get free swimming, I would not have known this if I hadn’t taken it upon myself to look specifically at antenatal swimming. Apparently leaflets should be given at booking in but I did not receive one. What else is there which she gets wrong or doesn’t tell me. How am I supposed to trust her with my care?
I received a report of my 8w appointment around now. This stated that I was ‘under the impression that I was on Metformin for infertility’. I take these quote marks to mean that I was wrong. Well I can tell you Im not. I had been diagnosed with PCOS and at my pre-pregnancy checkup in October 2010 my HBA1c was 6.1, not perfect but not a level which they said needed medication. I raised the issue of taking Metformin myself as we had been trying to get pregnant for nearly a year and the nurse agreed that it I could take it if I wanted as it may help with my fertility and that I could take up to 2g per day, she said I should judge myself how much I wanted to take. She did not prescribe me Metformin because of concerns over my blood sugars.
I recently had my anomaly scan done at 18+6. This involved both myself and my husband taking a day off work each. Before I even got on the table the nurse told me it would be too early to see everything and I would have to come back. If its that obvious then why book me in. This was a waste of mine and the NHS’ resources. I raised the issue with my consultant at the appointment afterwards and she said they book people in earlier rather than later because people want to see the baby. Forgive me if Im wrong but doesn’t the NHS work slightly differently? If I wanted to see my baby I couldn’t just turn up and be given a scan, there would have to be a good reason for it due to strict control of limited resources.
I had a fetal ECG booked for a few days later and it took my husband to point out to the consultant that if they couldn’t see the heart today they weren’t going to be able to see it in enough detail 4 days later.
I had decided that I would like to have a discussion regarding the induction and at my consultant appointment raised the possibility that I could be monitored rather than automatically induced. I informed the consultant that I had done my research and this was an informed decision but had some points I wanted to discuss. I was hoping to get into a discussion about the reasons for induction, the risk factors and the alternatives available.
She asked me what type of monitoring I would like as they don’t actually do any. I stated that I would like a scan to check whether the placenta was starting to fail/age and I knew that it was only a snapshot but wondered if there was any other test available.
She told me at great length how it was a snapshot (thanks, Id just told her that) and its not something they do as theres no point as the baby may die two hours later. She later explained that it can be useful for picking up developing problems which seems quite useful to me. I could see we were not going to get anywhere with this conversation so asked for practical information about where the scans would be done, how often etc. She had no information about this as she said they never do it and that they could scan me constantly and could possibly still end up with a stillbirth.
NICE guidelines state that at and after 38 weeks “Monitoring of fetal wellbeing should be offered to women with diabetes who are awaiting spontaneous labour” so it doesn’t seem unreasonable for me to ask for “monitoring” without knowing the specific name of the test. The consultant wrote in my notes what I had requested, again using quote marks. The conclusion I draw from this is that she thought I was being naive and hadn’t done my research.
The reasons I feel induction is not currently necessary in my case.
Induction in diabetic women is a policy which the RCOG say is based on “usual practice rather than sound research” There are many studies showing there is an increased risk of stillbirths in diabetics(4-5 times higher), however, the term stillbirth includes those babies born after 24 weeks. Higher blood glucose has been shown to cause congenital defects which may be the cause of many of these premature labours. Excluding these statistics, a much lower incidence of stillbirths is observed, with many of the cases being due again to congenital defects. There is no evidence that induction would have saved these babies. I admit there are a number of so called unexplained still births and cases where the placenta has aged prematurely (just as there are in the wider population) which is why I believe it is prudent for me to go for monitoring. Sacks' study on induction of labour vs conservative management (ie monitoring) in diabetics says that they benefits of induction are unclear.
Induction itself carries risks and is more likely to lead to further interventions which have their own risks. I am happy to be induced if I develop complications however I will not subject my child to such risks based on this weak evidence.

I would like my concerns about the standard of my care to be replied to in full and answers to the following question:-
I would like full details of why the clinic feels induction is needed in my specific situation and all risks associated with accepting or declining induction.
Please send me information on the methods used to induce and all possible complications.
I would like to know what percentage of inductions in diabetics go to c-section or instrumental delivery in St Michaels Hospital, Bristol or diabetics attending UBHT in general if you do not have this information.
What happens if the induction fails to bring on labour?
If I refuse induction, how will I be monitored, where will it happen, how often. What information will be sought and how will they know if/when I am in a situation where I need interventions.
I expect a balanced view based on evidence. My clinic have been unable and unwilling to address these issues for me which is why I write to you
I do not want induction to be brought up at any of my future appointments. I will discuss it once at 37 weeks if my situation remains as it is or sooner if I develop additional complications. Any discussion on induction because of diabetes must come based on new information regarding my health for example findings from a doppler scan. Please make my team aware of this so that I don’t have to go through any additional unnecessary stress.

Hopefully you can see why Ive been so unhappy with my care. Im not even talking about home birth yet, just my refusal to be induced as things currently stand. If I was having a hospital birth it would be exactly the same.

Right, off for armpit wax, ouch!
 
Awww, Amy! Yay for bubs moving with the light :) I like annoying my baby already by poking it when I can feel it, it already has a different temperment from it's big sister, she would kick back, mostly into my cervix though :lol:

Rach - True Blood was good, Luke also thinks there's more to come with the Tommy storyline, I'm not so sure, although I can see him ripping off Maxine I wonder if Jessica would help Hoyt out on this one though?

Helen - I don't know if there's anything in pregnancy is stress free! All we get is bombarded by the media by what to do and what not to do, 25 years ago my mum didn't have all of this and I'm fine, so what's changed??

Is there any way that you can change midwives completely? I changed my Dr surgery the week after I found out I was pregnant due to my feelings that my previous midwife didn't really give a shit and was completely losing touch (Have since found out so many bad things about her that I'm glad she's not my midwife). I met my current midwife after I'd had Tegan and she was lovely then and still is now, I actually get phone calls from her when I ask for them and she's called to make sure I knew about the changes to my 20 week scan (the old one wouldn't have done that, nor would the Dr's in my old surgery).

I can understand them inducing a woman who has type 1 diabetes and is on insulin such as my bestie, but you're type 2 and I don't understand why they're pushing you for induction when as best as I can gather you are managing it very well with your diet (much better than my dad!)


I've had a lovely long lie in today :) until noon where I got in the shower and felt dizzy coz I hadn't eaten (twat) Still feeling a wee bit dizzy now but I've just had my lunch - tuna and cheese sarnie, so tempted to buy a sandwich toaster coz that is super yummy when the tuna is warm and the cheese has melted, mmmmmmmm! All I want to do is go back to bed, but then that's not gonna help my recovery from chicken pox at all :( boohoo :(
 
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