Do you consider Gollywog dolls to be racist?

[Dragonfly]

Well if this wasnt discussed I would be non the wiser put it that way.

 

[Nic1107]

I know no one meant to offend anyone.

 

[poppy]

I found this discussion really interesting and actually quite surprising. I actually thought the poll would come back overwhelmingly for 'yes'.

Like some others have said, even though the dolls are probably not viewed in the same light today as they were fifty odd years ago (as a lot don't know the history), they do come from racist origins - not just the name 'Gollywog' which is obviously racist, but the 'personality' on the marmalade jars are representations of the minstrel tradition, where white people would 'blacken up' (putting on wigs, black make up, bright red lips and white circles around the eyes) and would dance around in comical fashion as an intended parody of a black person for the entertainment of other white people. These dolls are very linked with this image.

I have to say, even though, I realise that most people who have these dolls today are not being intentionally racist, but like others have said, I would feel really uncomfortable owning one or buying one for a child knowing the history. I totally disagree with what some others have said comparing them to dolls like Cabbage Patch Dolls or Rainbow Brite - these do not have the connotations or history that golliwog dolls have.

 

[NuKe]

I found this discussion really interesting and actually quite surprising. I actually thought the poll would come back overwhelmingly for 'yes'.

Like some others have said, even though the dolls are probably not viewed in the same light today as they were fifty odd years ago (as a lot don't know the history), they do come from racist origins - not just the name 'Gollywog' which is obviously racist, but the 'personality' on the marmalade jars are representations of the minstrel tradition, where white people would 'blacken up' (putting on wigs, black make up, bright red lips and white circles around the eyes) and would dance around in comical fashion as an intended parody of a black person for the entertainment of other white people. These dolls are very linked with this image.

I have to say, even though, I realise that most people who have these dolls today are not being intentionally racist, but like others have said, I would feel really uncomfortable owning one or buying one for a child knowing the history. I totally disagree with what some others have said comparing them to dolls like Cabbage Patch Dolls or Rainbow Brite - these do not have the connotations or history that golliwog dolls have.

me too!!! at least 50/50!

 

[Nikkinoonoo]

I found this discussion really interesting and actually quite surprising. I actually thought the poll would come back overwhelmingly for 'yes'.

Like some others have said, even though the dolls are probably not viewed in the same light today as they were fifty odd years ago (as a lot don't know the history), they do come from racist origins - not just the name 'Gollywog' which is obviously racist, but the 'personality' on the marmalade jars are representations of the minstrel tradition, where white people would 'blacken up' (putting on wigs, black make up, bright red lips and white circles around the eyes) and would dance around in comical fashion as an intended parody of a black person for the entertainment of other white people. These dolls are very linked with this image.

I have to say, even though, I realise that most people who have these dolls today are not being intentionally racist, but like others have said, I would feel really uncomfortable owning one or buying one for a child knowing the history. I totally disagree with what some others have said comparing them to dolls like Cabbage Patch Dolls or Rainbow Brite - these do not have the connotations or history that golliwog dolls have.

Me then
My arguement was in context not a buckshee remark. It was about the style of doll.

 

[NuKe]

I found this discussion really interesting and actually quite surprising. I actually thought the poll would come back overwhelmingly for 'yes'.

Like some others have said, even though the dolls are probably not viewed in the same light today as they were fifty odd years ago (as a lot don't know the history), they do come from racist origins - not just the name 'Gollywog' which is obviously racist, but the 'personality' on the marmalade jars are representations of the minstrel tradition, where white people would 'blacken up' (putting on wigs, black make up, bright red lips and white circles around the eyes) and would dance around in comical fashion as an intended parody of a black person for the entertainment of other white people. These dolls are very linked with this image.

I have to say, even though, I realise that most people who have these dolls today are not being intentionally racist, but like others have said, I would feel really uncomfortable owning one or buying one for a child knowing the history. I totally disagree with what some others have said comparing them to dolls like Cabbage Patch Dolls or Rainbow Brite - these do not have the connotations or history that golliwog dolls have.

Me then
My arguement was in context not a buckshee remark. It was about the style of doll.

what does "buckshee" mean? Honestly never heard it before!

 

[Nikkinoonoo]

Like said off the cuff, said without planning etc... that's not a good explaination sorry

 

[NuKe]

i understand! this forum is expanding my vocabulary lol! i found out what twee meant the other day too!

 

[poppy]

I found this discussion really interesting and actually quite surprising. I actually thought the poll would come back overwhelmingly for 'yes'.

Like some others have said, even though the dolls are probably not viewed in the same light today as they were fifty odd years ago (as a lot don't know the history), they do come from racist origins - not just the name 'Gollywog' which is obviously racist, but the 'personality' on the marmalade jars are representations of the minstrel tradition, where white people would 'blacken up' (putting on wigs, black make up, bright red lips and white circles around the eyes) and would dance around in comical fashion as an intended parody of a black person for the entertainment of other white people. These dolls are very linked with this image.

I have to say, even though, I realise that most people who have these dolls today are not being intentionally racist, but like others have said, I would feel really uncomfortable owning one or buying one for a child knowing the history. I totally disagree with what some others have said comparing them to dolls like Cabbage Patch Dolls or Rainbow Brite - these do not have the connotations or history that golliwog dolls have.

Me then
My arguement was in context not a buckshee remark. It was about the style of doll.

Sorry Nikki, I misinterpreted your remark.

I do think it is important though for people to understand the essential difference between a gollywog doll and other types of black dolls you can buy. Gollywogs are not just innocent, cute black dolls, they were intended insulting parodies on black people when they were first made decades ago. Like I said, they were linked with the minstrel shows. They have exaggerated features and do not resemble black people at all. They are vastly different from a black baby doll.

 

[Dragonfly]

I hit no on the poll as I didnt know the origins of the doll just that it was a black doll. But I do now I admit ignorance. You do learn sometihng new here every day.

 

[SKATERBUN]

I found this discussion really interesting and actually quite surprising. I actually thought the poll would come back overwhelmingly for 'yes'.

Like some others have said, even though the dolls are probably not viewed in the same light today as they were fifty odd years ago (as a lot don't know the history), they do come from racist origins - not just the name 'Gollywog' which is obviously racist, but the 'personality' on the marmalade jars are representations of the minstrel tradition, where white people would 'blacken up' (putting on wigs, black make up, bright red lips and white circles around the eyes) and would dance around in comical fashion as an intended parody of a black person for the entertainment of other white people. These dolls are very linked with this image.

I have to say, even though, I realise that most people who have these dolls today are not being intentionally racist, but like others have said, I would feel really uncomfortable owning one or buying one for a child knowing the history. I totally disagree with what some others have said comparing them to dolls like Cabbage Patch Dolls or Rainbow Brite - these do not have the connotations or history that golliwog dolls have.

me too!!! at least 50/50!

I think this is a very young forum, lots of people in their 20's, and although aware of the doll as being cute and likable, maybe not so aware of its origins.
I must admit im in my 30s and did know the history behind it but im kind of in denial. Like poppy i wouldnt own one now not because im PC, but i would feel uncomfortable, but its hard for me as i grew up thinking it was a cute little doll like everyone else; so im kinda sitting on the fence

 

[Blue_bumpkin]

In the past, white people in America, would dress up and paint their faces to have exaggerated features for plays/performances to essentially make fun of black people.

Just because you remember something from when you were an innocent child, does not mean it is not racist.

It is like Sambo in America.

Anyways, you can google it to read why, us in North America would see that as racist.

the look of the doll was based on a minstrel - but thats only because she had a doll in her childhood that was similar. It was other people's use of the word golliwog and the use of the character itself to portray black people in a bad light (you can even google this and see it was Enid Blyton who was most famous for doing this) that means people take issue with them, imo anyway.

The creator of the doll didn't intend them as racist so I think thats why I dont have a problem with them.

ETA: just to add aswell that it wasnt only white people that played minstrels black people did too - but they are obviously racist and were created to be so.

 

[blinkybaby]

To be honest I find so many films and programs with black poeple are allowed to refer to white poeple on the colour of their skin as racist yet if a white person said that it would be racist. There dosnt seem to be an even balance at all. Like undercover brother, funny film but really racist!

As for gollywogs its a black doll, most dolls are white so why not a black one to even it out? I think its the wog or sometihng thats slang for black and it was called golly after that. I dont think they are racist unless i missed something with them. Never paid much attention to them.

Im glad you posted that because I didnt want to post and seem to be going off point but Chris Rock blatantly slates white people yet nothing is said.. My OH has his dvds and you should hear him going on.

I think the race card is always the first thing thrown in the pot.

Yeah he is pretty heavy on the "white poeple this and that" yet i cant say the same about black people or I would be racist. And white people arnt allowed to say the word nigger though black poeple say it to each other all the time? is that not racist we cant even say a word they use all the time in songs and to each other because of the colour or our skin. Now thats racist.

The reason for that is that the "N" word is a word created by white people that was used to reference black people in a derogatory way, the fact that they use that word now is an act of defiance - it's like they are taking the word away from white people and reclaiming it for themselves.

Just to clarify though, I don't agree with this, I think it's a racist word, a reflection of times gone by that should well be laid to rest and forgotten about - they should just let the word die out of normal use. How can society ever move on if they keep using words like this? It's like they're keeping the idea of racism alive when the majority of people aren't racist and just want to get along.

I have researched it a bit more, and gollywog dolls were based on the character of a "minstrel", which were black men who dressed in a certain way, exaggerated their own features with black and white paint, just like the dolls. They were a form of entertainment mostly for white people, on TV. It actually started up way back as white people dressed up as black people, they would paint their faces black and draw on red lips and white eyes, and because racism was not as un p/c in those days, it was seen as funny that they would exaggerate their actions and imitate black people. So if the dolls are based on this, then yes, I can see how people would find them racist. I still stand by what I said before though, that children don't really know any different and that they are a valuable cultural artifact.

 

[Dragonfly]

To be honest I find so many films and programs with black poeple are allowed to refer to white poeple on the colour of their skin as racist yet if a white person said that it would be racist. There dosnt seem to be an even balance at all. Like undercover brother, funny film but really racist!

As for gollywogs its a black doll, most dolls are white so why not a black one to even it out? I think its the wog or sometihng thats slang for black and it was called golly after that. I dont think they are racist unless i missed something with them. Never paid much attention to them.

Im glad you posted that because I didnt want to post and seem to be going off point but Chris Rock blatantly slates white people yet nothing is said.. My OH has his dvds and you should hear him going on.

I think the race card is always the first thing thrown in the pot.

Yeah he is pretty heavy on the "white poeple this and that" yet i cant say the same about black people or I would be racist. And white people arnt allowed to say the word nigger though black poeple say it to each other all the time? is that not racist we cant even say a word they use all the time in songs and to each other because of the colour or our skin. Now thats racist.

The reason for that is that the "N" word is a word created by white people that was used to reference black people in a derogatory way, the fact that they use that word now is an act of defiance - it's like they are taking the word away from white people and reclaiming it for themselves.

Just to clarify though, I don't agree with this, I think it's a racist word, a reflection of times gone by that should well be laid to rest and forgotten about - they should just let the word die out of normal use. How can society ever move on if they keep using words like this? It's like they're keeping the idea of racism alive when the majority of people aren't racist and just want to get along.
.

Agree

 

[helen1234]

in the 80's i remember (showing my age but) kids in their teens walked around with huge stereo's in their shoulders, mostly black people with tam hats were the stereo type. no-one thought anything of owning what was called a 'wog box' but.....

times change and this term now may be conceived as racist and butt out of respect i wouldn't call a huge stereo a wog box anymore .

same as gollywogs, i dont look at think ohhhh racist doll, however some people are offended by them because when the name wog in the late 80's became a name calling gimic to a black person hence why the golly wog name became the racist name nothing really to do with the doll as such

does that make sense

 

[indy and lara]

Gollywogs really do belong to another time and a different world to the one we live in. The exaggeration of the characteristics, as people have said, tie back to the idea and notion of Sambo. The Sambo character is extremely offensive and racist, portraying the black population as simple and lazy. As this notion of an inferior race was one of the major justifications of slavery it is understandable why people were and continue to be offended by it.

I think to some extent that in Britain we will never understand how images like these can cause so much outrage in the USA because we do have the same history. The Carribbean/ Asian (and Irish) immigrants who came to the UK post World War Two faced appalling discrimination and racism but not to the extent faced in the US.

I don't think that the vast majority of people who own a gollywog now do so in order to make some sort of racist jibe or comment. However, that doesn't stop them being offensive to many people simply due to their original connotation. They are quite different to a regular black doll.

 

[hopeandpray]

Didn't know the history. Still not really offended by them as the people who buy them hardly buy them to cause offence

 

[Shri]

I swear when I went to holland, gollywogs are used instead of Santa... At Christmas!!! Someone please correct me if I'm wrong!

I don't see them as rascist at all?

You are not wrong, they are called Shwarte Pete (Black Peter) and they are St. Nicolas' helpers (prolly slaves back in the slave trade day)

 

[Georgie90]

Ok, I have had a long old read about Gollys…I still disagree and say that they are now not racist….they WERE probably intended to be racist but it seems that is has backfired and this is no longer true…to not sell them now in my opinion was probably a bit silly as its clear times have changed, and now they are just a little rag doll…as opposed to a black doll.

Would you say these were offensive?

https://i55.tinypic.com/a9ldag.jpg

 

[Serene123]

No Georgie

And no I don't think they're racist. It's like, "bah bah black sheep." It's about a sheep!!!