I wrote this in a facebook argument and it sums it up nicely:
On a serious note, because I take the politics of Westeros very seriously, I think the Starks been viewed as "good guys" is very much a case of the winners writing history. Why should Theon show them any loyalty? They killed his brothers. While they were kind to him, he was still a HOSTAGE and they sure as shit would have killed him had his father tried to rebel again. What did they owe him? The Starks have killed a lot of people, too. Robb's rebellion isn't really any different than Balon's. He's broken several oaths. Yes, many of these betrayals were motivated by love, but how is that somehow more honorable than the motivation of family loyalty? He's started a war. He's not some great guy. In season 3 he beheads Rickard, which in actually is no different than the scene in season 2 when Theon beheads Rodrik - it's just cleaner and more valiantly executed.
I gotta disagree hun (as much as I love you
)
Robb beheads rickard to punish him for murdering 2 innocent, unarmed boys
Whereas Theon beheads rodrik to show that he's king of the castle.
Also I'm curious as to what other oaths Robb has broken? (Other than one to marry a Frey girl obviously). I am thoroughly prepared to be blown out of the water by your politico social knowledge of westeross as I am of course a lowly tavern wench from flea bottom
LOL! You're allowed to disagree with me
Yes, the reasons for the excecutions were different, but they both followed through with the intent of a show of power. Robb's motivation is admittedly more *ahem* ego.
In terms of the oathes, I just see them both as having broken one major promise. With Robb, it's the Frey marriage. I know it seems romantic, but in their culture a marriage betrothal is serious business. I actually see Theon's broken oath - to be loyal to Robb as King of the North - more valiant in this scenario. He's been a hostage his entire life and he decides he wants to be part of his house once again. I think it's a very sympathetic position (thought granted he's much more torn in the show than he is in the books).
What I really like about Game of Thrones is that there are no "bad guys". It's pretty gray with a few exceptions (Joffrey, Ramsey aka "the boy"). I think the characters are really human. They're all motivated by normal human things - love, family, power, sex. Even when we don't agree with their choices, we can see why they might find themselves doing what they do.
Debate soc.:
Yes the characters are very "human" honorable traits and faults. But I'm afraid I will always side with the Starks. Ned was, to me, a truly honorable man who raised his family with honour, and despite having Theon as a "ward" raised him almost as a son (as evidenced by the brotherly relationship that theon &robb had previously). Theon was using Stark gold to pay for his tumbles with Ros!
Ned was kind with the pocket money dontcha think? Theon was doing fairly well for himself if he could afford to flip Ros a gold coin for a final glimpse of her foofy!
I find catelyn stark less honourable. I know Jon snow was a painful reminder to her of her husband's infidelity but they had Jon from being a little baby and it was in no way his fault, and yet she treated him with barely disguised contempt.
I feel very sorry for theon in respect to the position he was put in by his father &sister and the difficult choice he had to make but I don't think his actions were honourable in any respect. Look at Jon snow being told to kill the horse trader- whatever danger it put him in- he just couldn't do it because of honour. I think that's something he got from his father.
(I know your love for theon is all-consuming and blinding though
so we will have to agree to differ
) x
Theon Greyjoy!
chat later ladies x)
