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[summer rain]

This is the most up to date NHS advice on weaning; note it says only by 8-9 months they should be on 3 meals a day

https://www.nhs.uk/start4life/pages/taste-for-life.aspx

(ignore the fact they don't mention BF after 1 year, grr). Its fine for your baby to be on 2 or only 1 meal a day at this stage; your milk is very nutritious and for most full term babies stores of iron don't start to run out until 9 months, my son is on what I like to term 1.5 meals a day; we are doing BLW but I don't see why TW (traditional weaning) would be any different and aside from my eldest where I did rush to give solids too quickly due to poor medical advice all of mine have started on solids very gradually even if they are TW'ed, milk is the best way for them to grow and get all the nutrients they need until 1 year; food is just to learn new tastes and to slowly adapt to a mainly food based diet so that when they turn 1 they can make the transition more easily. My son still eats a lot of food despite having his milk feeds as usual, you could still adapt it so you're feeding more to a routine but not cutting down on milk feeds by always offering milk first and moving more gradually towards 3 meals a day. I have also pretty much never given puddings, as a family we only have puddings as special treats so I see no benefit whatsoever in giving them puddings twice a day when they are weaning onto solids most of them are just empty calories, or at best made with cows milk which is less nutritious than your milk. xx

 

[tiggercats]

I hate HV how do they get away with spouting so much mis-information

My LO started BLW at 6 months and for the first couple of weeks only had one food offering every other day, he wasn't interested by it. It took until 9 months to be on 3 meals a day and even now at 18 months he often still has 4 BF a day plus 3 meals and random snacks although more recently it is more normal for him to only have 3 BF's. I had a HV at 7 or 8 months tell me he didn't need to be BF that often.

Just take it at whatever pace is right for you and your LO, your supply will adjust to whatever you ask of it.

 

[MamaBird]

On the advice of a specialist we started solids at 4 months and by 6 months she was having 4 meals a day. HOWEVER, the specialist said to offer the breast first. So What I did was offer her the breast then we'd have breakfast, if she wanted to nurse before nap I would do that, then breast and lunch, same in the afternoon and then breast and supper and then again in the evening the breast if she wanted it and then we had a little snack before bed but breast right before bed instead of before snack. She was and still is waking in the night and we do breast then as well.

Around 6-7 months is when I gradually started introducing some water during the day or a 1/4 amount of apple juice with 3/4 water.

Now at almost 11 months she still has her 4 meals a day but bigger quantities and about 6 nursing sessions. And only in the last month or two have we introduced random snacks throughout the day when she seems she might be a bit hungry.

 

[braijackava]

A little help please ladies. Max just turned 4 months, and I am still exclusively breastfeeding him. The last few days my breasts have been very tender all the time, and my letdown has become very painful. It stings! My only other symptoms have been headaches and dizziness, which I don't think are related. He doesn't seem to have any signs of thrush, but has been very upset and nursing a lot lately. Any ideas on what this could be?

 

[Experiment13]

Hello!
I would love some one on one encouragement.

I am 32 years old and Sam is our first child. We had problems latching and are now using a shield. He has a shallow latch and a weak suck. He also falls asleep at the breast. Lactation consultant has us using a natural flow bottle to supplement him with my EBM when he is not satisfied at the breast because his weight gain was too slow.

We had his frenulum cut but lactation consultant thinks it needs cut deeper, so we will take care of that this week. My ideal scenario is that we learn how to latch correctly and ditch the shied forever. Does anyone have any success stories with this? I am aware we introduced the bottle early but the lactation consultant said that with these bottles we are using the dangers of nipple confusion are way less important then him getting what he needs. We tried finger feeding and he was not a big fan.

He is otherwise healthy and thriving 2 week old.

Thank you in advance!

 

[tiggercats]

braijackava - I believe there is another growth spurt at 4 months which might be the reason for nursing a lot. I don't have experience of thrush so can't help there, but with LO nursing more are you drinking plenty of fluids? If you are dehydrated that can cause headaches and dizziness.

Experiment13 - we had a rubbish latch and used shields for some feeds to minimise the pain I was in. I'm still nursing LO now and he is 18 months. Cath on here used shields full time for a while as a transition from EBM in a bottle to the breast and continued to a year, so it doesn't have to mean the end of a nursing relationship because you have introduced bottles and shields.

Hopefully others will be along with more advice as my LO has just finished his dinner so I need to go.

 

[Mork]

Just wanted to let you know experiment 13 that I used shields for the first 7 weeks from day 4 as my nipples were soooo sore. I didnt have any difficulties with supply as a result of these (make sure you eat and drink well as you would anyway) and i was able to gradually stop using them by doing every other feed without them and then eventually not using them at all. My lo has never taken a bottle - despite using several different ones supposedly like the breast. We are still bfing now. I think you have done a great job getting to two weeks with the difficulties already, you have accessed the right support and hopefully getting that extra cut this week will also make your journey smoother! Good luck and feel free to pm me xx

 

[milkymum]

I am really hoping someone here can help, I feel on the verge of giving up (not something I want to do)

DS2 is now 8.5 weeks, and is VERY slow with his weight gain. I have fought the HV all along about putting him on formula however I feel ganged up upon today from both her and the doc.

I was induced at 38 weeks (possibly 37 weeks, long story but I wasnt in the UK for my 20 weeks app, and the dates could be 1 week out)
Delivery wasnt easy but Jr arrived safe and well with no problems. Only issue for me was he didnt feed straight after delivery. (He is #5 and the others have all fed as soon as possible after delivery) I woke him up 4 hrs after delivery and he latched on but didnt do much, then I woke him again 8 hrs after delivery he took a bit of a feed but not much. Im fairly sure that his first proper feed was about 12 hrs after delivery (I could be wrong and Im sorry if that isnt relevant)

We were discharged the same day, and I thought things were going well. Midwives kept an eye on him due to the onset of Jaundice, but it wasnt bad enough for him to be admitted. By day 6 he had lost over 10% of birth weight, going from 6lb 2 oz to approx 5lb 8oz. (again its perhaps not relevant but I have read that being on IV in labour can make baby weight more, I was induced so therefore was on IV)

Since week one he has always put on weight but not much. Since passing onto the HV he has put on very little weight, apart from the past two weeks, he put on 4oz then 5 oz.....I was over the moon and thought we were past the worst of it, However he had to get his injections today and the HV wanted him to put on 2oz (she weighed him on Monday and he was 6lb14oz, she wanted him 7lb, but he was only 6lb 15.5oz)

When the doctor came in they started talking about how I will have to start topping him up as he is going to need more calories, I kinda feel stitched up by her. She was heaping praise on Monday about his increase and today just made me feel like I should have done more!

I am dead set against top ups and really want to avoid them at all costs if possible, I dont find it easy to express (I am thinking of trying another pump, but will that really make a difference?)

I dont want to stop feeding him and I feel that formula top ups is a slippery slope that once I go down there is no coming back from!

I should say that DS2 is generally a happy soul, content, feeds well (I think, I did see the local lactation councillor who was meant to keep in touch but hasnt, though I know the HV is keeping her informed) The HV and doctor told us today he is hitting all his development milestones but not his weight.

Sorry for the rambling post, I hope you understand Im just so frustrated and trying hard not to cry as I write this.
They have given me 10 days to get his weight up.....Im not sure what else I can do!

Breast feeding shouldnt be this hard, I shouldnt have to fight to keep at it and I feel I should be getting more support to keep going instead of having them all try to encourage me to 'give him a bottle'....surely this should be my choice? If its difficult where is the support???

I probably should add that DH is trying to be supportive, he is dead against me even giving DS2 any bottles.....possibly to the point where I feel the same amount of pressure from him NOT to give bottles, where the HV wants me TOO give bottles.....
I moved between baby #4 and #5 so this is a new HV and I wish I could move back to have my old HV she was great....Im hoping this one will be but the way I feel, Im ready to give in and let them all be right, even though it feels wrong to me

Again Im really sorry for rambling and I hope some of this at least in cohesive

Any help anyone can offer I will be so so so greatful

Thanks for reading!

 

[summer rain]

Has your LO been checked for tongue tie or other oral issues which would mean milk transfer may not be 100% optimum even if the latch looks fine? Also do you have any allergies or food intolerances in your family? As rarely these can cause poor weight gain and no other symptoms. Is your LO still jaundiced at all? Getting the advised number of wet and dirty nappies a day? If you must give a top up, and sometimes top ups can help; would it be possible to express milk and give EBM instead of formula though? At this age the risk of nipple confusion is minimal and you can usually trick a baby into taking more milk than they usually would if its in the form of a bottle, and thus more calories. My eldest had a very similar pattern of taking long to regain his birthweight then poor weight gain but we now know he did have tongue tie and reflux so that may have partially explained it; they expected him to get back up to his birth centile by the next HV session; which would have meant him gaining 2lbs in a week when otherwise he'd only gain 4-5oz a week; I just didn't go again. xx

 

[milkymum]

Has your LO been checked for tongue tie or other oral issues which would mean milk transfer may not be 100% optimum even if the latch looks fine? Also do you have any allergies or food intolerances in your family? As rarely these can cause poor weight gain and no other symptoms. Is your LO still jaundiced at all? Getting the advised number of wet and dirty nappies a day? If you must give a top up, and sometimes top ups can help; would it be possible to express milk and give EBM instead of formula though? At this age the risk of nipple confusion is minimal and you can usually trick a baby into taking more milk than they usually would if its in the form of a bottle, and thus more calories. My eldest had a very similar pattern of taking long to regain his birthweight then poor weight gain but we now know he did have tongue tie and reflux so that may have partially explained it; they expected him to get back up to his birth centile by the next HV session; which would have meant him gaining 2lbs in a week when otherwise he'd only gain 4-5oz a week; I just didn't go again. xx

Thanks for the reply.

The only oral issue they have looked for is thrush, but he doesnt have that, to be honest i wouldnt know what to look for with tongue-tie.
DS1 has a cows milk protein/lactose intolerance, it was picked up at 16 weeks (after weeks of accusing me of causing his failure to thrive!)
The HV has been quick to dismiss this as DS2 doesnt display any of the signs that DS1 showed (DS1 was ill for weeks, screaming, runny nappies all the time, never content always trying to latch on), DD3 had reflux and DS1 was wrongly diagnosed with that, the HV seems quick to dismiss this as well, DS2 did have a bad few days the other week, but she has told us its colic and to just keep him 'topped up with gripe' we tend to give him 2.5 mls with every feed.
He is no longer jaundice, but we were sent in for a prolonged jaundice test just to make sure.
He has plenty of wet nappies, but not so many dirty ones, which we mentioned while at the hospital getting the jaundice test, the doctor there dismissed that as within normal range (and I know that our others were irregular) the doctor at the hospital also told us to not worry about his weight as long as he wasnt loosing, which he hasnt done!

I have tried to express but I only get a pathetic amount out and it feels like it takes forever, thats why I was thinking about getting a different pump (I have the TT closer to nature electric one, but was looking at a medela swing, though Im not 100% sure I will have any more success?)

I really am becoming fretful every time I feed, Im scared he isnt taking enough, and then I stress about what his weight will be next time.....its becoming a vicious circle that I have been in before and I really dunno how much more I can take before I give in and do what they all want, even though as I said before I feel it isnt right for him or me.

 

[summer rain]

If you type tongue tie into google; the images will show differing levels of severity of tongue tie and there are some different types also. At your LOs age its fine for them to have less pooey nappies as long as they have enough wets. Is there an NHS BF support team in your area, sometimes they can intervene on your behalf and tend to know more than HVs. I think if one of your others had a cows milk protein intolerance then it is a possiblity that this baby will too even if they seem to be asymptomatic, my second eldest's only symptoms were poor weight gain, and mild to moderate eczema which only developed really at 4 months plus, otherwise he seemed completely fine. Yet at around 5 months he got sprayed with some drops of fromage frais by OHs little cousin and his entire head and body came up in hives and another time, he grabbed OHs spoon that had traces of yoghurt on it, licked it and ended up being rushed to hospital with a swollen airway and huge hives all over his face and body. When tested he was found to be severely allergic to pretty much everything in non-human milk. The paediatrician at the hospital said this 100% explained his horrible weight gain between 8 weeks and 7 months during which time he only gained just over 1lb in total and they were vehement I must continue BF as long as possible and said they would not trust any formula on the market with allergies so severe. I continued to BF him while slowly introducing solids and when he was still only on solids once a day; and not even every day he suddenly put on 2lb in one month and from then on he just kept gaining dramatically and went from the 0.4th centile to 75th in around a year! I truly shudder to think what would have happened had I had a different HV than the supportive one I had then; and I had been advised to top up with formula before his allergies were discovered.

My mum had a similar experience with my youngest sister; her only symptom, poor weight gain so they had her top up with formula; the formula didn't do anything to help her weight gain and when my mum was down to one brief feed every day she relactated. She had a horrible feeling the formula wasn't good for my sister and she was right. My sister continued to gain weight poorly throughout childhood and from the age of about 6 onwards she frequently had diarrhoea, in her early teens it was found she has crohns and the specialists dealing with her do think that the formula top ups may have been a contributing factor.

At the end of the day you're under no obligation legal or otherwise to see your health visitor or to attend their clinic, they can threaten all they want but thats the bottom line. If your GP is conspiring with the HV to gang up against you (and this is what they are doing) then I would ask around about sympathetic BF supportive GPs and change to them, there was another lady on here who was going through similar her HV even reported her to SS but they found nothing wrong and found the lady to be a competent mother who had her childs best interests at heart, and she changed her GP and made a formal complaint about the HV. In your case I would then ask your new doctor to get you a referral to a paediatrician as you feel there are other causes of the poor weight gain and you want them properly investigated. Once you have the hospital paediatricians seeing your child regularly and investigating things the HVs will have nothing to say. This is well within your rights to do and ask this. Good luck! xx

ETA Just done a bit of calculating and if you allow your baby the 2 weeks to regain his birthweight; then he has been gaining around 4oz a week on average (and HVs are supposed to take their gain overall not pick it apart by an individual weekly basis) which is at the lower end of average but is certainly not terrible especially looking at how your LO was born on the lower centiles to begin with. I would definitely change your GP.

 

[Spunky]

I'm overwhelmed by the first page and all the people. Can someone pick me up or recommend who you think would fit me please?

I'm 27 going to be a SAHM (which is weird for me). We don't co-sleep, he gets his own space and I have mine.
My problem: Baby has a vigorous suck according to the lactation consultant. I have used (and am right now due to favoring a breast from mastitis) nipple shilds and the nipple shells to heal some bleeding nipples. James has a good latch, but it still hurts. Everytime I feed him it hurts. Usually just in the beginning (except for lately, but I'm just getting over mastitis) for about the first 30-60 seconds it hurts a lot. I'm just so frustrated. Everyone just tells me it takes time, but he's 5 weeks old now. Why haven't they toughened up yet? I have a mom and husband that are very encouraging about BF, but I'm sore and sad... Thanks for any help someone can offer.

 

[Nervous_1]

Hi Spunky!

It took weeks for me to stop feeling any pain when my LO latched on, partly because I had thrush and partly because I had HUGE cracks that took forever to heal. I had to use shields for what seemed like forever til things healed a bit, although I would give the odd "naked" feed just to see if things were improving yet. I'd say that it took me probably 3 or 4 months thanks to the thrush to actually get no pain at all when I fed, but I am an extreme case! For most women I think things tend to improve at around weeks 6-8 so you're almost there!

Are you using Lansinoh? I swear that this stuff is a little purple tube of magic. You can also take paracetamol or ibuprofen around half an hour before a feed and I found that helped to numb the pain a little bit. Oh, and hot baths helped me too (if you have a shower this might work better for you so stop any ducts getting clogged and causing mastitis).

Keep going, I promise that once things click into place it really is the easiest thing in the world!

 

[gertrude]

milkymum - sorry to hear you're having a hard time. My LO wasn't putting on weight fast enough and at one point dropped nearly 15% of her birth weight. We combi fed for 3 months and we never had (or have, she was fretful last night so I put her to the boob and she latched better than she had in weeks )

anyway, I didn't understand why there was such a push for her to gain so fast until my Dr explained that if she was to get poorly she had no energy reserves to be able to fight it and would probably end up having to the hospital straight away rather than stay at home. Until that point I had been fighting the top ups too, but the thought of her being in hospital was not a good one.

For us I never had the supply to give her solely EBM (I wish I could have my time again) but even now I express so she gets some breast milk. I have the medela swing and it's a great pump. It took a while for me (and my boobs ) to get used to it and quickly I could get 1/2oz out a time - remember I have a low supply because pickle never sucked hard enough etc so I'm sure you'll get more Definitely keep with the pumping as it will help your supply too

I'm not sure if you'll find any of that useful but I hope so xx

 

[milkymum]

gertrude thanks for the reply.

Im not sure it is a supply problem as I normally feel full before he feeds and tend to fell lighter after.

I do understand why there is a concern, DS1 ended up at hospital with an intolerance then just as we were getting up onto an easy keel he was admitted with bronchiolitis, and I was aware that it could have been worse had he still be as little as he had been.

My issue is more that I want to keep feeding DS2 myself and I am the one pushing for it, but getting no support from the 'professionals' no advice other than formula, no suggestions of other things to try other than formula....
Im angry that I only got to see the councillor because I called my midwife (after I was discharged from her care)
I am becoming paranoid and stressed out every time he feeds, has he had enough? Does he need more? Why wasnt he on for longer?
I had started to relax, after all last week he put on 4 oz and this week he had put on 5oz and the HV was full of praise, only to turn on my in front of the doctor!!

I really havent felt so low about feeding any of my other children.....Ive never questioned myself so much, never doubted myself so much....Ive never with the others felt like giving up before the child indicated it was what they wanted!....Ive never felt such a lack of support or met HV who are so quick to suggest bottles before trying to help and support the breast feeding....after all isnt that drummed into us that Breast is Best?!?!

 

[summer rain]

I agree with you, and I think it is really pedantic of your HV to get the GP involved because your LO had gained half an oz less than she said would be acceptable (or at least this is what I understand from your post). As I said overall your LO has gained on average 4-5oz every week since week two if you divide it all up; your LO is not currently on the charts but would have been born just above the 2nd centile, if your LO was born say on the 50th they would not have been so funny if they had fallen to the 9th or the 2nd. I am not saying formula top ups are not needed in extreme cases but almost every case I have seen like this; either the baby is healthy but just a small gainer naturally but by the time this is realised formula has completely taken over; or there is an underlying cause that is not helped by just glossing it over by giving formula top ups and again by the time this is realised it is often too late to return to EBF. When a FF baby has trouble gaining weight its not assumed the feeding method is to blame or the baby is not getting enough, and on the rare occasions it is the HCPs are relaxed about it and say just feed more often and see how things go; when its BF involved low supply is always blamed without any basis and top ups are always seen as the first course of action . Imagine the uproar if a FF baby had this problem and a doctor said they think the mum should try topping up with donor breastmilk as a solution?

 

[Emma 21]

id love a champion its my 3rd baby the 1st i have fed for this long she struggles with latch n always seems hungry, she is 17days old i get down n feel guilty as still not bk to birthweight she is supplemented with formula, my elec pump arrived today tho so hoping to cut out formula, i feel drained had no idea it would be such hard work.

 

[summer rain]

Have you had your LO checked for tongue tie, a severe lip tie or high arched palate? These can cause latching problems and thus a problem with them getting enough milk to gain well. xx

 

[Emma 21]

no how would i go bout tht.. my hv and midwife have been pushing formula and stopping breastfeeding she like are you sure you want to feed and i do... by the way is it normal to be really thirsty. she 18 days old

 

[milkymum]

I agree with you, and I think it is really pedantic of your HV to get the GP involved because your LO had gained half an oz less than she said would be acceptable (or at least this is what I understand from your post). As I said overall your LO has gained on average 4-5oz every week since week two if you divide it all up; your LO is not currently on the charts but would have been born just above the 2nd centile, if your LO was born say on the 50th they would not have been so funny if they had fallen to the 9th or the 2nd. I am not saying formula top ups are not needed in extreme cases but almost every case I have seen like this; either the baby is healthy but just a small gainer naturally but by the time this is realised formula has completely taken over; or there is an underlying cause that is not helped by just glossing it over by giving formula top ups and again by the time this is realised it is often too late to return to EBF. When a FF baby has trouble gaining weight its not assumed the feeding method is to blame or the baby is not getting enough, and on the rare occasions it is the HCPs are relaxed about it and say just feed more often and see how things go; when its BF involved low supply is always blamed without any basis and top ups are always seen as the first course of action . Imagine the uproar if a FF baby had this problem and a doctor said they think the mum should try topping up with donor breastmilk as a solution?

Sorry I wasnt clearer, the doctor came in to give bubs his jabs, but while he was there I then felt 'ganged up on'

The doctor that checked DS2 for prolonged jaundice at the hospital did look at DS2's red book and even he said that DS2 was just gonna be a baby who slowly put the weight back on but again the HV counters that by saying the hospital will ask why I have done Formula top ups....I just feel stuck in this vicious circle with no end.

The doctor saw us just the other week, there was concern that bub had silent reflux, but we had been giving him gripe and that seemed to help. We still give him gripe regularly, the HV told us to give it at every feed. Again though I even question that now, is there something else that gripe is hiding?

I knew he was below the bottom centile, but I pulled out all of the older children's red books and she saw for herself that none of my others have been in the higher centiles, they are all relatively small.....H and I are only 5ft4 and 5ft2.

I get frustrated at the lack of active help they are prepared to give me, I also feel that sometimes Im not offered the help (for example) a first time mum would get! I feel that just cos I have others that I breast fed Im not expected to have problems and when I do I should 'just get on with it' Every child is their own person, so why is it expected that I should know how to deal with problems?

Summer rain your comparison is so right, I never thought of it that way before.....I just feel that the HVs in this new area are so quick to force FF as opposed to offer active BF help, like its an easy answer, it isnt them that has to keep trying....it isnt them who has to do the work!

One other thing I wanted advice on (I do hope its my paranoia and not a problem) but DS2 seems to latch on 9/10 times easily, but then pulls of screaming. We have to try to calm him down a bit to try to get him back on, normally if I can get him back on he feeds fine, but only for about 10-15 mins (is this normal?) other times he refuses to go back on and just gets himself all wound up......any advice or suggestions as to why he is doing this?
I had started to relax thinking that he was latched on for less time due to getting the hang of it, and just getting the milk out more effectively, however after Fri Im back to trying to second-guess myself and thinking that this is the sign of another issue!

Sorry and thank you again so much for all the help and advice
Sorry I know I do tend to ramble, H says that I am over analyzing things too much now, but I cant help it. I feel like I have 10 days to get DS2 up to whatever weight she thinks he should be, and if he isnt then I wont have any say in it....I just sometimes feel like my head might explode with all the stress, then the HV tells me to stop worrying about it and just enjoy him.....how can I when I feel she has me playing her numbers game!