Giving gay people the right to marry in church

[Midnight_Fairy]

I am not religious but I can see how things seen as right or wrong could upset people. Its not always black and white and maybe church should (but never will) modernise with the times.

 

[caz81]

If over 50% of marriages end in divorce I think the real definition of marriage has been lost anyways...

Well, I dont believe in divorce either!

Question here...

Marrying cousins etc...? It's done in the bible is it not? That has now changed.

Its still legal to marry your cousin

 

[Eve]

I don't either, but seriously look how many people marry in a church who don't care... who do not believe in God, etc...

Is it legal to marry your cousin everywhere?
It sure as **** isn't socially acceptable, and incest etc... is wrong but it was done in the bible. I clearly remember reading " The Childrens Living Bible" to my son every night before bed until I came to a part in it about so and so married their cousin.

 

[tina3747]

I think I sit on the fence with this.
I believe a church has the right to refuse gay marriage as legal, it's a fundamental basis of all religion that it's one man/one woman. I don't think gods law, could ever move away from that simplistic view unfortunately and I do believe that a religious person in whatever faith has the right to not think its right but not necessarily wrong iykwim?!
The unity between a man and woman is a perfect one, a woman without a man cannot get pregnant, I suppose this is where the basis of the religious marriage comes.
On the other hand, if you are a person of a certain faith, and god is a very important part of your life I think it would be as important for a homosexual copule to marry in the eyes of god as it would be a heterosexual one, why are they any less important.
I'd call myself agnostic (sit on the fence with most things in my life ha!) I'm not sure what outcome this could ever have. It's not fair to make a religion turn it's back on everything they've taught for hundreds of year for a number of people that could essentially get married in a million other places anyway.

 

[Tegans Mama]

I think I sit on the fence with this.
I believe a church has the right to refuse gay marriage as legal, it's a fundamental basis of all religion that it's one man/one woman. I don't think gods law, could ever move away from that simplistic view unfortunately and I do believe that a religious person in whatever faith has the right to not think its right but not necessarily wrong iykwim?!
The unity between a man and woman is a perfect one, a woman without a man cannot get pregnant, I suppose this is where the basis of the religious marriage comes.
On the other hand, if you are a person of a certain faith, and god is a very important part of your life I think it would be as important for a homosexual copule to marry in the eyes of god as it would be a heterosexual one, why are they any less important.
I'd call myself agnostic (sit on the fence with most things in my life ha!) I'm not sure what outcome this could ever have. It's not fair to make a religion turn it's back on everything they've taught for hundreds of year for a number of people that could essentially get married in a million other places anyway.

That's the point I was making though. I don't expect anyone who is religious and not gay to understand - but being unable to be married in the eyes of g-d just because my partner is a woman is something that has changed the way I feel about marriage and about g-d and about basically everything.
My wife and I are civil partnered. I say were married because frankly we are more married than many straight couples will ever be. I didn't get married because I was pregnant, because my wife had money or a good job or a good social standing. I got married because I love my wife and I intend to spend the rest of my life with her.
I don't know, it's a hard discussion for me to be part of because I see both sides. As a gay woman I believe I should be accepted by my religion. As a Jewish woman I can see that I am not. Although I would never be publicly judged or humiliated I would not be "part" of the Jewish community of I were to seek to be a part of it.

 

[Missy86]

Tegans Mama, what is the difference between being married and being in a civil partnership I am really clueless

 

[sparkle_1979]

If I were gay I wouldn't want to get married in a church as why get married in a place where they think what you are is wrong.

It's a hard one though. I believe in gay marriage but also think if the bible says marriage is for man and women then the church has the right to not allow it.

 

[JASMAK]

God makes no mistakes. It is people her on this planet who are judging, not God. I do not believe that people who are gay are anything less than anyone else and should not be used against them for ANYTHING, just like skin colour. Its disgusting, and God will judge those who judge others.

 

[JASMAK]

PS I am Catholic.

 

[Eve]

God makes no mistakes. It is people her on this planet who are judging, not God. I do not believe that people who are gay are anything less than anyone else and should not be used against them for ANYTHING, just like skin colour. Its disgusting, and God will judge those who judge others.

Thank you!

 

[Nibblenic]

God makes no mistakes. It is people her on this planet who are judging, not God. I do not believe that people who are gay are anything less than anyone else and should not be used against them for ANYTHING, just like skin colour. Its disgusting, and God will judge those who judge others.

Thank you!

Does that mean that gay people should be allowed to marry in church then?

 

[caz81]

I don't either, but seriously look how many people marry in a church who don't care... who do not believe in God, etc...

Is it legal to marry your cousin everywhere?
It sure as **** isn't socially acceptable, and incest etc... is wrong but it was done in the bible. I clearly remember reading " The Childrens Living Bible" to my son every night before bed until I came to a part in it about so and so married their cousin.

I know it is legal here in the Uk and I dont think many people would look at it as incest here? I also dont think it is particularly socially unacceotable here either. I know that it happens quite a lot in Asian communities.

 

[Eve]

Yeah, it's a lot more likely in Japan & China etc...

 

[Nibblenic]

I certainly didnt think it would be legal to marry your first cousin and im in the UK. Ive goggled and apparently there is no law against it. Surely there must be horrible genetic implications though

 

[caz81]

I am not religious but I can see how things seen as right or wrong could upset people. Its not always black and white and maybe church should (but never will) modernise with the times.

A few people here have said the church should 'modernise' but I really dont get it, if the church changes the beliefs that it is built on then surely there is nothing left? IF the church doesnt follow the Bible then what is the point to it? True Christianity is based on the teachings of the Bible, sometimes these might make us uncomfortable but if we take away those teachings and make up our own teachings to go with the times then surely it is not Christianity anymore?

 

[caz81]

I certainly didnt think it would be legal to marry your first cousin and im in the UK. Ive goggled and apparently there is no law against it. Surely there must be horrible genetic implications though

I was just reading this, found it quite interesting! https://www.cousincouples.com/?page=facts

 

[Eve]

I read that too lol... thought it was interesting. Still Icky IMO but interesting.

Who are we to judge what should be allowed in a church. If it's unacceptable for LGBT couples to marry, why did God create them? How do we know it isn't a test from him on our own levels of acceptance and tolerance. How do we know he truly sees it as wrong... to me, there are just too many loopholes to pass judgment or tell someone of a certain faith that they shouldn't be allowed to get married in their church, or any other for that matter.

 

[caz81]

I read that too lol... thought it was interesting. Still Icky IMO but interesting.

Who are we to judge what should be allowed in a church. If it's unacceptable for LGBT couples to marry, why did God create them? How do we know it isn't a test from him on our own levels of acceptance and tolerance. How do we know he truly sees it as wrong... to me, there are just too many loopholes to pass judgment or tell someone of a certain faith that they shouldn't be allowed to get married in their church, or any other for that matter.

But we are not judging, we are following God's rules, not our own. If the Government goes against that then they are choosing to be a judge and make decisions that I feel they have no right to.

I dont believe that God is testing us in the hope that we will allow gays to marry in the Church, it wouldnt make any sense, if it was not a sin why has it been stated that it is? Why has it been stated marriage is between a man and a woman not 2 men or women? WHy would God want us to go against his word? IF anything standing up against this is a real test of faith. It would be so easy just to 'give in', its hard to stand firm against society, against friends- that is the true test of our love for God not just giving in because we are pressured to go against his word. We know that God sees it as wrong because it is said in the Bible: 1 Cor 6:9 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals and Lev 18:22-23 "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." a couple of quotes there are more.

BUT in my eyes this is not a discussion about the right and wrongs of homosexuality it is about going against Gods definition of marriage being between a man and a woman and how we dont have the right to change that.

Noone is passing judgement on people being gay (let he who is without sin cast the first stone) its purely about the changing of the word of God and I dont believe that any Government has the right to do that.

 

[bumpy_j]

I don't have a problem with gay marriage but I have a problem with forcing ministers to marry gay people if they do not want to. As with anything it's to their own discretion. If we allowed gay people to marry in all churches than we have to allow gay people to marry in all synagogues, temples and mosques aswell. There are gay churches and ministers and if they want to perform gay marriage then fantastic! I think marriage when two people are in love, whoever they are, is wonderful and it should be recognized as a marriage legally. However all ministers should have the right to turn them away if they want to.

Ideally I believe that people of religion should get married, but gay people should find a minister that is happy to perform and the state cannot force one do to the ceremony. I think ALL people who aren't religious should have a civil partnership. In the same way why have a christening when you can have a naming ceremony. And to Christians that are wholly against it - if God judges you individually why worry what a gay couple do in their own church?

 

[Nibblenic]

I thought ministers had the right to turn away straight couples? So that would remain the same, all things being equal

Why does the Bible say that marriage should be between man and woman? Is it for the propagation of children?