Had to share as I find this very upsetting..

There are many "controversial threads" posted on BnB everyday but can be discussed with no problems as long as members dont start using words like "disgusting", "weird", "cruel" & respect other peoples descisions.

Rudeness, flaming or trolling is not tolerated on, or about, BabyandBump or its members. Any member who is intentionally disruptive may have their account restricted or banned without warning.

Can we please get this thread back on track. If you have any issues with each other then keep it private to pm & we will deal with it.
 
I can't blame breezy for getting defensive; there IS authentic, bonafide research from respected institutions that circ is cleaner than non-circ including playing a valuable role in cutting down on infections (not all of which are caused by sleeping around); whether people choose to believe that research is up to them.

A lot of the things said here about parents who circumcise their boys (as opposed to circ itself which you are welcome to disagree with), have been pretty horrible. A previous poster said when in pain her mum said she used to go 'quiet' and 'nice', and thus you cannot tell when a baby is in pain, well if your mum knew that was how you behaved when you were in pain and it was different than you'd expect, then most parents also know how their children behave when they are in pain. My youngest had his circumcision performed at 5 weeks because he was ill with jaundice before and had to regularly visit the hospital so we did not want to expose him to an infection risk; I knew how he behaved when in pain because he had had a minimum of 30 blood tests before that age (I lost count after that) where I was present. It was extremely painful for him to have all that blood drawn from different places in his hands and feet. When he had his circumcision done by a specialist urologist surgeon, not a GP or a religious leader; he was given a local anaesthetic that was allowed over an hour to work properly and the very small amount of cutting done was with a laser because we had the plastibell method done. After the surgery he didn't cry at all,nor did he cry or even wince during it and later that day he slept a bit longer as you would after a baby does after they have had their jabs but later on that night and from then on he was completely normal. I have seen those videos before and they don't present the way that my son's had their circumcisions performed; it is wrong for a baby to be taken far away from its parents and strapped down-for any procedure unless it is some type of medical emergency, but one video does not show an accurate picture of how most circumcisions are carried out.

My son was circ'd at 5 weeks as well as he had a hydroseal and the DR said the circ would come out crooked if he did it before being discharged from the hospital. So at this point my son had already had his 2nd heel prick at the DR when we went to the base to have him checked out at 4 weeks. I know when he is in pain: He goes BRIGHT red and really winds up for the cry and it is an ear piercing cry that makes my heart go into my tummy.

He did not do this during the circ. He had some sugar water and local anesthetic and when all of that wore off I used neosporin with pain relief as directed by the urologist that did the procedure. He didn't scream when he peed, I never saw ANY blood in his diapers, It never even looked very sore except for the first changing.

And one of the PP's said that she understands why I would want to keep it neat and clean for when he is 2,3,4,5 and even 6 and 7!! I have a 7, almost 8 yr old brother and when he comes in to go to the bathroom from playing and wants to get outside real quickly we often have to ask him if he wiped and washed his hands. Little boys can be very messy even if the parent/sister/aunt/family member/teacher is trying to teach them to be more hygenic. My parents are the cleanest people I know, my mom cleans her bathroom DAILY, lol! And she checks my brother when he comes home from school to make sure he has wiped.

Lack of circ is responsible for a 12 fold higher risk of urinary tract infections. The risk is 1 in 20 to 1 in 50 for uncircumcised infants and 1 in 200 to 1 in 500 for circumcised infants.

One in 400–900 uncircumcised men will get cancer of the penis, which occurs more than 20 times more commonly in uncircumcised men. A quarter of these will die from it and the rest will require complete or partial penile amputation as a result.

Higher risk of prostate cancer (50–100% higher in uncircumcised men)

Means increased risk of problems that may necessitate 1 in 10 older children and men requiring circumcision later in life, when the cost is 10 times higher, the procedure is less convenient, and the cosmetic result can be lesser, as stitches or tissue glue are required, as compared with circumcisions done in infancy.

Increases by 2–4 fold the risk of thrush and sexually transmitted infections such as human papillomavirus (HPV), genital herpes (HSV-2), syphilis, chancroid, Trichomonas vaginalis and thrush.

In the female partners of uncircumcised men lack of male circumcision is associated with an up to 5 fold higher incidence of cervical cancer.

-Courtesy of https://www.circinfo.net/summary.html
 
How would you all like it if someone bullied you and gained up on you for a decision you made for you child? Not every good I would imagine. You may not agree but I don't agree with you. I never said anything about your kids or uk men being disease ridden. These are my opinions and experiences. And while all of you can gang up on me about how much of a shit mom I am I know there are at least 60 people in my side of the family alone that agree 100 percent with me.
I just think that when you say that people smell if they are not circumcized, then perhaps you DIDN'T get the facts to make your decision. My son is not circ'd and he is clean. My hubby is, and he is too...but, I think it depends more on how a person cleans themselves rather than how it looks. And yes, you don't retract the foreskin when they are little. I have never had to 'clean' my son's penis. He is 8 and he knows to clean it, but when he was little, he did...and he has had NO issues. I don't think anyone here is 'bullying' you, but you do sound like perhaps you didn't have all the facts. At any rate, it's your choice (for now). I really don't think you are a shit mom for doing it. I don't even ask mom's if there son is circ'd or not! Who asks that, right? LOL! I think that if everyone is encouraging you too, then it's easy to make that decision. I know, because that's how it was for me...but the doctors talked me out of it, and I am glad they did.

In my experience with uncirc'd boys- which is strictly from my day care experience. Changing diapers, giving baths, etc. The children had smelled down there- and it wasn't a pee/poop smell. I can assume that if this is not normally the case then the parents were not educated in proper care? I know a lot of people get very bad advice here in the US as people are so used to circ's, IYKWIM.
 
https://www.eskimo.com/~gburlin/mgm/facts.html

Questionable Benefits
Good hygiene can offer many advantages over circumcision.(35)
Circumcision has no significant effect on the incidence of common sexually transmitted diseases (STDs).(36)
Circumcision is not harmless and cannot be recommended without unequivocal proof of benefit.(37)
Not one confirmed UTI case in a normal male infant. All cases in infants with clear urinary birth defects.(38)
Antimicrobial management of UTI in infants is routine and outcome generally good. It is inappropriate at this time to recommend circumcision as a routine medically indicated procedure.(39)
Reported benefits in preventing cancer and infant UTIs are insignificant compared to surgical risks.(40)
Performing 100,000 mutilative procedures on newborns to possibly prevent cancer in one elderly man is absurd.(41)
Medical Ethics
It must be recognized that the child is normal as born and that circumcision inflicts loss of a normal body part and leaves a scar. This is contrary to the motto of medicine, “First Do No Harm.”(42)
The unnecessary removal of a functioning body organ in the name of tradition, custom or any other non-disease related cause should never be acceptable to the health profession...and breaches fundamental medical ethics.(43)
Children too young to give consent must be treated as individuals. The child must live with the outcome of decision.(44)
 
https://www.eskimo.com/~gburlin/mgm/facts.html

Questionable Benefits
Good hygiene can offer many advantages over circumcision.(35)
Circumcision has no significant effect on the incidence of common sexually transmitted diseases (STDs).(36)
Circumcision is not harmless and cannot be recommended without unequivocal proof of benefit.(37)
Not one confirmed UTI case in a normal male infant. All cases in infants with clear urinary birth defects.(38)
Antimicrobial management of UTI in infants is routine and outcome generally good. It is inappropriate at this time to recommend circumcision as a routine medically indicated procedure.(39)
Reported benefits in preventing cancer and infant UTIs are insignificant compared to surgical risks.(40)
Performing 100,000 mutilative procedures on newborns to possibly prevent cancer in one elderly man is absurd.(41)
Medical Ethics
It must be recognized that the child is normal as born and that circumcision inflicts loss of a normal body part and leaves a scar. This is contrary to the motto of medicine, “First Do No Harm.”(42)
The unnecessary removal of a functioning body organ in the name of tradition, custom or any other non-disease related cause should never be acceptable to the health profession...and breaches fundamental medical ethics.(43)
Children too young to give consent must be treated as individuals. The child must live with the outcome of decision.(44)

This proves that there are conflicting arguements on the benefits or lack thereof. But, that does not mean that one is wrong and the other is right. I don't believe that any of you that do not agree with me are wrong. I just believe that you looked at the facts on both sides and made the decision that you felt was right. Just as we made the decision that we felt was right. There is no changing anyones mind and I completely respect 100% the beliefs of those that do not agree there are benefits.

But, I was asked why I had my LO circ'd and the reasons I gave were my opinion.
 
And I will also add that I am very bad with confrontation- so if I came off defensive, rude, or demeaning that was not my intention. :flower:
 
My son was circumcised. I've never met an uncirc male at all. In Fact in the State I live in, North Dakota, we have the highest circumcision rate in the United States. As I've said before, I never NOT considered doing it. IT was the right decison for my son.

It is a difference in Culture. In my culture the one I was raised in, the one I live in, its perfectly normal. Im sure if I lived in the UK and had been raised in that culture I would think different.

People have different opinions every day, but b/c its different it doesnt make me, or anyone else 'weird'....though I do think I am weird....:haha:
 
My son was circumcised. I've never met an uncirc male at all. In Fact in the State I live in, North Dakota, we have the highest circumcision rate in the United States. As I've said before, I never NOT considered doing it. IT was the right decison for my son.

It is a difference in Culture. In my culture the one I was raised in, the one I live in, its perfectly normal. Im sure if I lived in the UK and had been raised in that culture I would think different.

People have different opinions every day, but b/c its different it doesnt make me, or anyone else 'weird'....though I do think I am weird....:haha:

:haha: :haha: :haha:
:hugs:
 
I personally wasn't attacking anyone but I was attacking arguments touted to support circs that are weak. If anyone could show me any convincing outcomes I might be persuaded in to thinking that it is a necessary procedure. I have two boys that have not been cut and they do not smell strange. The info I received was to not pull the foreskin back until it separates later which is often older than 7/8 years of age (when a child is capable of brushing their teeth effectively and can learn hygiene). We don't remove their teeth because they need educating to be clean. I guess you could argue that false teeth are cleaner and less chance of gum disease??? To me, ripping teeth out of a child for that purpose makes about as much sense as circumcision.

If people are wanting to cut their boys, at the moment that is their choice. I just find it strange that they need to defend the decision if they feel it is sound. If they want it done then be honest and just say it with out giving anecdotal evidence of a smelly boy or two. I have changed plenty of nappies and not once have I smelt a difference between boys that are cut and boys that are not. If there was a smell, I wouldn't think it was due to the procedure, I would first be thinking of UTI etc.

Nature has evolved over centuries to provide us with perfect bodies that suit are environment. We muck things up by intervening or dramatically changing our lifestyles or diets. If boys were not meant to have foreskins, they would have evolved without them
 
Its still surgery at the end of the day. I dont know why people would want their baby to undergo unnessecary surgery (and obviously this does not include those done for medical reasons).
 
I'm still scratching my head here. Like, what is the overwhelming evidence in support of circ'ing? I probably would consider circ'ing, if it lengthened his life or offered statistically significant advantages in any other way, but the information in support is pretty marginal and scant, and therefore questionable.

I understand that bringing up an uncirc'ed boy in a state where circ'ing is the norm, could feel like you are setting them up for ridicule, but ironically, the rest of the western world doesn't circ babies routinely which defeats the object. Uncirc'ed penises are the norm.

I can't get my head around why anyone would want to do this unless medically directed to, it's so unnecessary.
 
For me, the thought of physically altering my perfect, beautiful newborn was never an option. It's not the norm where I am from and I would never have considered it. That's just me though :flower:
 
I fined the whole circ thing odd. If 100% of the male population are born with it, then chances are it's meant to be there. Unless it's a medical issue, why mess with nature?
I dont agree with a ban though, as I would be afraid some idiots would take matters into their own hands & children would be seriously harmed at the hands of non experts carrying out procedures illegally, like they did with abortion in the old days. (I'm soooo not conmparing circ to abortion though, just that when you make something illegal, it doesn't stop it happening and can make things worse).
I would never, ever have any of my kids circ'd. Half my family are Muslim & are circ'd, but funnily enough, none of them have chosen to have their kids cut :shrug: because they dont see it as necessary. Obviously they're not very strict Muslims & i'm sure if they still lived in lebanon, they probably would do do it because it would be seen as the norm, whereas her in the Uk, it's not. I find it really weird how in the US people are circ'd for cosmetic reasons... fair enough if you want to do it because your religion says so, but to do something just because your friends did or their daddy is cut or you dont want your child to be singled out in the locker room or whatever seems weird to me. sorry, but that's just the way i see it. (why are boys looking at eachother's bits so much anyway! lol)
Anyway.... dont ban it, but i still dont think it's ok...
 
(I haven't read the whole thread yet cos I want to post before baby wakes up so sorry if I'm repeating whats been said already or something like that)

I'm a little stuck on whether I would agree with a ban or not. Personally I am opposed to circumcision, both male and female, and don't think it is my right to alter my child's body without medical need.

What I did read of the thread, I saw some people comparing female circumcision to male circumcision and then other people getting offended. Whats important to remember is that there are different forms of female circumcision and the least invasive form is practically equivalent to male circumcision (removal of the clitoral hood, the equivalent of the foreskin) so it is possible to compare those but obviously the more invasive forms of female circumcision are very different to male.

As for the religion issue I can understand why people do it for religious reasons but personally I feel that I don't have a right to choose my child's religion (thats why I will not christen Maria) so in my opinion religious reason would not be a good reason (but I understand why people would disagree with that)

And people that do it in case their son needs it done in the future for medical reasons - it is only a tiny proportion of boys that actually need it done for medical reasons, so removing it beforehand seems to me to be slightly akin to me removing my breasts in case I would get breast cancer in the future.

Just my opinions, hope I don't offend anyone - tried really hard to write diplomatically here :)
 
Also to the people sayin that circ for religious reasons is not justified have no right to comment on other peoples religions and say what they do is wrong or right.. At the end of the day you follow what you believe and others follow and do what they believe.. Each to their own imo
OMG do you realise what you're actually saying?

Everyone has the right to comment on other people's religions, just as everyone has the right to comment on anything they see fit. It's called freedom of expression and it is protected by our laws. What is not protected by our laws, thankfully, is yours or any other individual's right not to be offended.

Many barbaric practices are and have been defended under the guise of "religion" now and in the past, but this doesn't make them infallible or exempt from the law of the land, which thankfully is not religious law.
 
I know this thread has died down but I really want to post this.
https://www.stayathomemomologues.com/2011/06/its-cleaner-now.html?m=1
But didn't want to start a whole new thread! :)
 
WOW too many replys, i have not read past the 1st page!

First of all, this is just my opinion but i don't agree with circumcision as i feel it should be the childs choice when they are older.

I am not putting people down who choose to have it done for religous reasons or not but I just can't understand why you would put your baby through the pain? Again its just my thoughts

This website just confirms my thoughts...
https://www.naturalfamilyonline.com/go/index.php/15/12-no-to-circumcision

This is just the 1st reason it gives you why not to have it done and there are many more!
The foreskin on a penis isn’t some sort of optional part that was put there for fun – it actually has an important function! Babies need foreskin to protect the “glans” (the part of the penis that is in the foreskin) from bacteria and infections – like the kind of infections that can be caused by a diaper full of pee and poop
 
Some great posts made here lately.

I don't know if anyone is reading this thread still, but I am curious as an atheist...

Why is everything done for religious purpose automatically unquestionable? Is everything done under religion good and ok...if so doesn't that then make everything outside of religion "bad"? I just don't get when people say "It's ok for me to do XYZ as it's in my religion, so that makes it right".
 
Certainly everything done for religious purposes is not automatically good and ok or they'd allow human sacrifice or polygamy. I don't think things should be given a pass just because of religion especially when it concerns making permanent decisions for someone else. But as I said in my previous post, I understand why people do it.
 

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