Help! Need to hear IVF success stories of highly fragmented DNA in sperm!!

[1babydreamer]

Hello everyone! I've just had a five day transfer on my first round of IVF and I'm incredibly nervous! I really need to hear some positive success stories from couples in a similar situation.

A little background on my journey... My DH and I started TTC after our wedding in May 2011, by the following spring we still had not concieved so we had some preliminary tests done and everything was normal including my DH's SA, totally normal and good. After another year of not conceiving and two failed IUI's we decided to move on to IVF as I just turned 35 in April. Right before we started, my R.E. reccommended for my DH to do an SCSA test which stands for Sperm Chromatic Structure Assay. It tests for the levels of DNA fragmentation in the sperm. Apparently all men have some degree of fragmentation, but the higher the levels, the lower the fertility. Levels over 30% can result in lowered fertility, higher rate of miscarriages and failed ART cycles. My DH's results came back a shocking 38% and high/abnormal on the other two markers.

Keep in mind, his sperm analysis was perfect! Great numbers, motility and morphology! He's a super healthy, active, athletic guy with no history of illness or chemo. Since this test is not very well known or even suggested, it's hard to find success stories. Most men with sperm issues have it show up on the SA but men can have a normal SA and still have high DNA fragmentation. That's why our R.E. suggested ICSI with TESE where they retrieve the sperm directly from the testicle.

Sorry for the novel but anyway, I would really love to hear stories from ladies in the same situation as the SCSA test is not very common and I can't seem to find anyone who has this problem!

 

[Strawberry13]

Hi! I wanted to reply although I don't have a success story to share (yet anyway). My husbands regular SA was ok but not great (our first dr told us he was completely fine then our new dr said his morph was a problem) and his dr had him take the SCSA test... It was higher than they wanted (I think 16% and they want below 10%) but not high enough that they recommended going straight to icsi. But it did help us put everything together and realize why we likely weren't getting pg naturally which was very helpful! We're doing 1 or 2 more iuis and if they don't work going to icsi.

I will tell you though, my good friend had severe Mf issues not sure what his DNA frag test was but I'm pretty sure it wasn't good at all. They did ivf and are expecting later this year. They only had 1 embro on transfer day and it worked.

The fact that you had so many good ones on day 5 is great! So stay positive you have a great chance!! Keep us posted.

Also I agree that not enough people know about the SCSA it is such an important test I don't know why they don't push it at most fertility clinics!

 

[1babydreamer]

Thank you so much Strawberry! Fingers crossed for you that your iui works! 16% is not too bad at all as under 15 is normal and up to 25% is average to borderline.

I totally agree with you that this test is not very well known or talked about. I just want to get the word out there, especially to couples who have been trying for a long time and have multiple failed iui's and ivf's. My obgyn never mentioned it when she had DH do a SA and the first fertility specialist we saw also never brought it up. My DH even asked if there were any other tests they could do on him and we were told no! Thank goodness we switched to our current R.E. and he told us about it. But even he didn't really push the test as my DH is only 38 and very healthy. I'm so glad we decided to do it as IVF with TESE and ICSI is our only chance!

Thank you again so much for giving me hope with your friends story and hopefully we will get to add our successes here too soon!!

 

[1babydreamer]

Bump

 

[kristyn78]

My DH also has fragmented sperm. We were told our only option was IVF and we did a sperm aspiration on our 3rd cycle. Our 3rd cycle gave us our son who just turned 3 last Saturday. It can happen. We just did our fourth cycle and received a low positive so i am going back tomorrow for another beta. This last cycle we actually did the biopsy and this is the only cycle we have ever had any to freeze.

Stay positive it can happen!

 

[1babydreamer]

My DH also has fragmented sperm. We were told our only option was IVF and we did a sperm aspiration on our 3rd cycle. Our 3rd cycle gave us our son who just turned 3 last Saturday. It can happen. We just did our fourth cycle and received a low positive so i am going back tomorrow for another beta. This last cycle we actually did the biopsy and this is the only cycle we have ever had any to freeze.

Stay positive it can happen!

Thank you sooooo much Kristyn!! Your story give me some desperately needed hope!! Fingers crossed for you and good luck on your next beta

 

[BellarinaBaby]

I can't remember exactly what my husbands number was, but I believe it was around 40%. He also had a good analysis for everything else and we went through 3 failed IUI's before moving onto IVF. We found out about the DNA fragmentation while preparing for the first round, so our RE recommended ICSI. I had 8 eggs retrieved, only 4 fertilized, 2 transferred on day 3, and the remaining 2 did not survive. My expectations were low, but our first and only round was a success! Good luck, I hope you also have a successful round!

 

[1babydreamer]

I can't remember exactly what my husbands number was, but I believe it was around 40%. He also had a good analysis for everything else and we went through 3 failed IUI's before moving onto IVF. We found out about the DNA fragmentation while preparing for the first round, so our RE recommended ICSI. I had 8 eggs retrieved, only 4 fertilized, 2 transferred on day 3, and the remaining 2 did not survive. My expectations were low, but our first and only round was a success! Good luck, I hope you also have a successful round!

Thanks so much BellarinaBaby! Your story sound very similar to mine and I so hope to join you with a BFP soon! We also found out about the fragmentation as we were already into our first IVF. I'm praying and hoping but I'm pretty sure I got a negative on my HPT this morning . If you tilt it in the light there is the faintest shadow of a line but I can't dare to hope anymore. Blood test is Monday morning so I guess I'll know for sure by Monday afternoon if this first IVF cycle worked.

 

[BellarinaBaby]

Fingers crossed for you 1babydreamer!

 

[Briss]

Hi 1babydreamer, I do not have a success story yet but I can see that you got your BFP on your FET cycle following two failed IVF. Can I ask if all 3 cycles were done on ICSI with TESE?

I had a natural cycle IVF which ended in chemical, I am suspecting my DH's sperm was the problem. it's generally quite poor and we did ICSI. we have not done the sperm DNA fragmentation test cos no one mentioned it before. I am thinking about it now. if it's going to be above 30% what are our options? TESE seems a bit harsh I am not sure my DH will agree to that. I was looking into IMSI. I also heard that high doses of antioxidants can improve SA. has anyone tried it?

 

[1babydreamer]

Hi 1babydreamer, I do not have a success story yet but I can see that you got your BFP on your FET cycle following two failed IVF. Can I ask if all 3 cycles were done on ICSI with TESE?

I had a natural cycle IVF which ended in chemical, I am suspecting my DH's sperm was the problem. it's generally quite poor and we did ICSI. we have not done the sperm DNA fragmentation test cos no one mentioned it before. I am thinking about it now. if it's going to be above 30% what are our options? TESE seems a bit harsh I am not sure my DH will agree to that. I was looking into IMSI. I also heard that high doses of antioxidants can improve SA. has anyone tried it?

Hi Briss! I really think the fertility community needs to be more aware of sperm issues and DNA fragmentation in particular. I got pregnant after both my fresh IVF cycles but unfortunately they did not last long. The first was a chemical and on the second, my beta didn't double and then started to drop. Our third which was FET seems to have worked. We transferred two but it seems only one has stuck. I really think the sperm fragmentation is the problem as they just can't know which ones are affected. The TESE gives you a much better chance at having more normal sperm than just regular donation and ICSI. My DH's urologist and our FS both confirmed that TESE was the best way to go as doing IVF without it would be a risky waste of time and money.

DH was a trooper and he only had local anesthetic! He was sore for a few days but nothing he couldn't handle, and certainly nothing compared to what we go through! He was back at a very athletic job two days after Also, they got enough from him that one time to use for at least 7 cycles!
Hope this helps and best of luck to you!! Feel free to ask me any other questions

 

[Briss]

1babydreamer, thank you very much for responding. Did they just do TESE once and froze his sperm? how much sperm survived the thawing process?

Did they explain why the TESE gives you more normal sperm?

 

[Briss]

Just to share some more info I got on a different board with regards to sperm DNA fragmentation

"On the fragmentation the best way to look at it is 0-15 is normal, 15-29 is abnormal and 30 and above is impossible. The higher the number indicates not just fragmentation but structural defects in the DNA stran in the sperm which means it will not reproduce itself even if linked to another good stran. When you have numbers of 30 and above you are looking at donor sperm for pregnancy. There was a woman many years back who lost numerous embryos where the sperm analysis on the surface showed everything was perfect with high count, morphing great and motility very good but when the frag test was done as she said no a damn one of them was good. Some cases are caused by heredity and others by toxins such as heavy metals and others. You must use the fact that one in eight pregnancies miscarries based on the fragmentation in the first 12 weeks and this is based on the normal range of screwups. What is done normally is the hyper-stimulation with the egg harvest and the most robust taken for transfer and the others frozen. The odds on pregnancy on this method is 66% with 33% chance of twins. Using the frozen ones the chance is 50% for pregnancy with 25% chance of twins. Next part of this madness is your womb bed. You would assume that everything is equal anywhere on it but it isn't. There is a gradient on the womb bed where chemicals and enzymes tend to concentrate aiding the implantation like looking at a wave on a pond where you have peaks and troughs of concentration. This is why the odds of success are what they are. The frag test will determine the options as what you are going to do with minimizing the heartbreak involved."

 

[1babydreamer]

1babydreamer, thank you very much for responding. Did they just do TESE once and froze his sperm? how much sperm survived the thawing process?

Did they explain why the TESE gives you more normal sperm?

The TESE procedure gives you better odds at having a more normal sample of sperm. Since it's aspirated directly from the testicle it hasn't had time to sit there and become fragmented or damaged. It's fresh, newly formed sperm. They got plenty from my DH from the one time to freeze and use for 7 cycles. He hasn't had to do it again and probably won't have to.

I know I'm only 7 weeks along, but I really don't believe that there is no hope as that article you posted suggests. My DH has over 30% fragmentation and everything seems to be going well with my pregnancy so far. Of course I won't breathe easy until after we pass 12 weeks but I have read success stories from couples with high fragmentation having healthy babies with IVF, TESE & ICSI. There's always hope!

 

[Briss]

1babydreamer, thank you! I talked to a doc about TESE yesterday and he said that the problem with TESE is that they get sperm which is not mature and this may also lead to fertilisation problems. Did you have any issues with sperm maturity?

 

[1babydreamer]

1babydreamer, thank you! I talked to a doc about TESE yesterday and he said that the problem with TESE is that they get sperm which is not mature and this may also lead to fertilisation problems. Did you have any issues with sperm maturity?

I guess not since I'm 7 weeks pregnant from TESE and we heard the heartbeat at 150bpm yesterday .

I think because TESE is relatively new, many doctors don't really know all that much about it and tend to be skeptical. If they used it more often I'm sure they wouldn't be so negative. My FS has used it numerous times with success

 

[Briss]

Thank you, that's very reassuring. btw, lovely picture!!

 

[Briss]

Our urologist asked my DH to do sperm reactive oxidative test. Has anyone done that before? seems quite useful and I think it can also detect indirectly any DNA fragmentation https://www.clevelandclinic.org/reproductiveresearchcenter/pub/uronews_2007_1.pdf

 

[dovkav123]

Lots of good info ladies!
It's worthy to test my hubby. All the papers are submited to my RE we just need to make an appoinment with IVF lab.

 

[1babydreamer]

Just wanted to check back in to say we're having a little boy! 20 weeks now and all tests so far have gone well and come back negative for any abnormalities. We are thrilled and can't wait to meet our little man!