Home Birthers & Hopefuls!
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MandaAnda
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Well done, Jenni! I don't know what your midwives are on about. 37 weeks is 37 full weeks. That's why each day between 37 and 38 weeks is referred to as 37+1, 37+2, etc. I work on a SCBU (my third one), and obviously gestation is important as to how we treat pre-term babies. And everyone, midwives on labour ward included, knows that 37/40 is full-term. We don't even necessarily admit 35 or 36 weekers if they're doing well.
Re: the possible breech. I agree about finding out if any of the midwives are experienced with vaginal breech deliveries. It is only a variation of normal after all. The Homebirth.org.uk site usually has a good breech home birth section, but it's not working right now. Try reading the Spinning Babies website to get that baby the right way round in the meantime.
Re: GBS - would your midwives agree to come to your home, put a cannula in and start running IV antibiotics once you're in labour? I can't see why this would really be a problem, as they should know how to site an IV cannula, should know how to manage an IV and plenty of people have community nurses come out to do their IV antibiotics (I know, I've done it with community children's nurses when I was a student).
Why do they try to make things more difficult for us?!
Re: the possible breech. I agree about finding out if any of the midwives are experienced with vaginal breech deliveries. It is only a variation of normal after all. The Homebirth.org.uk site usually has a good breech home birth section, but it's not working right now. Try reading the Spinning Babies website to get that baby the right way round in the meantime.
Re: GBS - would your midwives agree to come to your home, put a cannula in and start running IV antibiotics once you're in labour? I can't see why this would really be a problem, as they should know how to site an IV cannula, should know how to manage an IV and plenty of people have community nurses come out to do their IV antibiotics (I know, I've done it with community children's nurses when I was a student).
Why do they try to make things more difficult for us?!
PeanutBean
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Thanks all. I googled right after posting here and came across the homebirth.org link and my DH did the same. lol I currently have about 20 tabs open with resources to read and the start of my birth plan and Qs for the MW.
I was feeling a bit emotional before, sorry! Bournefree no I didn't have strep at least no-one was aware if I did. I did end up going in with antibiotics because my waters had been gone 18 hours and I hadn't delivered (naturally this was the start of all my difficulties last time).
Last week I had spotting after dtd and the hospital asked me to go in. They wanted to do an internal, which seemed fair, to check whether the blood was from my cervix or a laceration. Whilst up there the doctor did a swab which I've been cross about ever since, both on principle and because it made me bleed longer and heavier which worried me as I didn't know the cause. I was told hours later that one had been done.
A different MW rang me today to tell me of the result. She was all "so you'll just need to go on IV antibiotics when labour starts." I then tell her I have a homebirth planned. Our community MW team is really very good (it's the hospital ones that seem to be a bit crap!). She popped round later with a couple of leaflets for me and was very positive about my homebirth as long as I was aware of the risks. She has told me to ask my MW for a long home appointment so we can talk through my birth last time and write a comprehensive birth plan this time. I'd already been reading the first link from that site and mentioned about having IV at home. She said the issue is that she could do it (and no doubt the other MWs) but that they are not technically trained so there could be a problem. She has given me the contact details for the MW Supervisor saying if there are issues she will be able to go above the guidelines, so to speak and put special care plans into place so I can get the homebirth. The MW said she was anxious that if there wasn't a very detailed plan in place I might get a different MW who didn't know the situation and might want to follow normal procedure.
So I see my MW on the 25th and will book a home appointment for as soon as I can after that. In the mean time I'll keep researching and constructing my plan and questions about the possibilities.
I'm thinking that if my waters go and I don't deliver by 18 hours then I'd like someone to come here to do the antibiotics. This would actually free up one of my major worries that it would all be a repeat of last time. I'd be willing to go into hospital at the start of labour for a dose if needs be but not to stay there. I read about a number of particular risk factors, one is presence in pee so I figure get my pee tested in the late weeks. Another thing is to get a swab done at 35-37 weeks. Don't much fancy that though as it is bloody agony and makes me cry and sore for hours and possibly bleed again, but it's an option.
I'm a bit more collected that when I posted earlier anyway. You know when your emotions are on a knife edge and once tipped the fall is very far indeed? That's pretty much me all the time about everything to do with birthing.
I was feeling a bit emotional before, sorry! Bournefree no I didn't have strep at least no-one was aware if I did. I did end up going in with antibiotics because my waters had been gone 18 hours and I hadn't delivered (naturally this was the start of all my difficulties last time).
Last week I had spotting after dtd and the hospital asked me to go in. They wanted to do an internal, which seemed fair, to check whether the blood was from my cervix or a laceration. Whilst up there the doctor did a swab which I've been cross about ever since, both on principle and because it made me bleed longer and heavier which worried me as I didn't know the cause. I was told hours later that one had been done.
A different MW rang me today to tell me of the result. She was all "so you'll just need to go on IV antibiotics when labour starts." I then tell her I have a homebirth planned. Our community MW team is really very good (it's the hospital ones that seem to be a bit crap!). She popped round later with a couple of leaflets for me and was very positive about my homebirth as long as I was aware of the risks. She has told me to ask my MW for a long home appointment so we can talk through my birth last time and write a comprehensive birth plan this time. I'd already been reading the first link from that site and mentioned about having IV at home. She said the issue is that she could do it (and no doubt the other MWs) but that they are not technically trained so there could be a problem. She has given me the contact details for the MW Supervisor saying if there are issues she will be able to go above the guidelines, so to speak and put special care plans into place so I can get the homebirth. The MW said she was anxious that if there wasn't a very detailed plan in place I might get a different MW who didn't know the situation and might want to follow normal procedure.
So I see my MW on the 25th and will book a home appointment for as soon as I can after that. In the mean time I'll keep researching and constructing my plan and questions about the possibilities.
I'm thinking that if my waters go and I don't deliver by 18 hours then I'd like someone to come here to do the antibiotics. This would actually free up one of my major worries that it would all be a repeat of last time. I'd be willing to go into hospital at the start of labour for a dose if needs be but not to stay there. I read about a number of particular risk factors, one is presence in pee so I figure get my pee tested in the late weeks. Another thing is to get a swab done at 35-37 weeks. Don't much fancy that though as it is bloody agony and makes me cry and sore for hours and possibly bleed again, but it's an option.
I'm a bit more collected that when I posted earlier anyway. You know when your emotions are on a knife edge and once tipped the fall is very far indeed? That's pretty much me all the time about everything to do with birthing.
PeanutBean
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Oh and I've bought some live yoghurt. Let's see if I can't out-compete the buggers!
Amy_K
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I'm hoping for a home birth. We were booked and all set for one on our first baby in 2008 but I went 10 days overdue and had repeated showings of glucose in my urine so they induced me between 11 and 15 days. I was disappointed with the hospital birth, although it wasn't as bad as I was expecting.
We are planning the same again, but the midwives booked us an appointment with the consultant who apparently needs to give us the 'ok' for a home birth this time as our baby has been identified as having bilateral hydronephrosis.
The appointment is Monday and I want to be insistant on the home birth without being pushy and getting his back up. I've held off getting teh birth pool or doing my birth plan because I'm really worried that the consultant could put a halt to the whole thing is he wanted to.
We are planning the same again, but the midwives booked us an appointment with the consultant who apparently needs to give us the 'ok' for a home birth this time as our baby has been identified as having bilateral hydronephrosis.
The appointment is Monday and I want to be insistant on the home birth without being pushy and getting his back up. I've held off getting teh birth pool or doing my birth plan because I'm really worried that the consultant could put a halt to the whole thing is he wanted to.
Amy_K
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Thank you. That is my understanding and certainly I can't see why a home birth is an issue when we live 10 mins from the SCBU/Hospital. We should have had this all sorted over a month ago but the snow problems meant that we had to miss two appointments already. Hopefully, he will be reasonable and won't object... (fingeers crossed) 
snagglepat
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Hi all,
Wow, I disappear for a day or two and it's all go on here. Thanks for thinking of me folks, but babe is still within. I ended up going in to the antenatal assessment unit yesterday - with my IM - for some monitoring. Given it was 48 hrs after what could have been SROM we decided getting the all clear on both mine and baby's health would be a good thing, so we initially signed up for a CTG and then I consented to a speculum exam after quizzing the poor midwife assigned to us at great length.
Anyway, there was no sign of pooling waters when she looked inside and baby was extremely happy, so we're now assuming that they didn't go and the time pressure is off. The contractions have died right back as well, so knowing my luck it'll be weeks still. There's nothing like a bit of drama to get you organised though. We're definitely ready for our home birth now!
Peanut, I would have pointed you straight to the homebirth site as well for info on homebirth and group B strep. We discussed it with our midwife at the hospital yesterday when deciding whether to have a swab done whilst I was having the speculum. We've had it done and should have the results tomorrow or Saturday. It really helps having an IM because at the end of the day, whatever the result and whatever I/we decide to do about it is entirely up to us and will be supported, but I felt that having the information would enable us to prepare accordingly, which did surprise me. It was when my midwife told me that in some parts of the country the policy for dealing with Group B Strep is not to do IV antibiotics but just to closely monitor the baby after birth (assuming all goes well, birth takes place within a sensible time frame after SROM, etc - if other things happen decisions are made based on the scenario unfolding at the time and IV antibiotics in labour may feature) that I felt happy consenting. Whatever the result, it will just help us make an informed choice about how we manage things safely and sensibly - at home.
Great letter Jenni. And copying it to AIMS was a very good idea. 37 weeks is SO 37 weeks. I've had a client who managed to negotiate home birth support from her NHS team from 36 weeks (they weren't that happy about it but she stood her ground and got the HOM to agree in the end) and they have no grounds at all to deny you appropriate care because they've chosen to give themselves a silly time frame. Let us know how it goes!
As for breech birth at home, have a read of anything you can get hold of by Mary Cronk. There's a good summary by her here: https://www.aims.org.uk/Journal/Vol10No3/handOffbreech.htm - she is the queen of breech birth. It's worth being very clued up on the difference between breech birth and breech delivery/extraction as well because an Obs might not differentiate but mean a very medicalised (barbaric?) approach when talking about breech birth when it's really a very different, very normal thing.
Amy, our daughter was diagnosed with hydronephrosis too. It was no problem for us to negotiate a home birth because they openly agreed that it should cause no issues at all with the birth and would only need to be addressed later. Like you, we were only 10 minutes from the hospital. What was more of a challenge was negotiating NOT giving her the prophylactic antibiotics from birth after a late scan showed it to have suddenly cleared up. They were insistent that it could still be there but we researched it thoroughly and decided to monitor her urine output and for signs of kidney infection before resorting to antibiotics. There were a number of reasons for this that may not be relevant to you, not least the fact that I am allergic to trimethoprim and they were insistent that this was the only antibiotic they'd use, but in the end we simply had to decide not to engage with it all. We kept a close eye on her in the first few days - and she appeared fine. We called the hospital to let them know she'd been born and to book an ultrasound for her after the fact, then took her to be scanned (she was fine). Of course, if her case had been more severe or if there had been problems we may have made other choices but for us we were very unwilling to go through pregnancy and birth drug-free, plan not to vaccinate - at least not in the time frame prescribed for us - and exclusively breastfeed to support her immune system as thoroughly as we could and then treat her with drugs she might be allergic to 'just in case'.
But that's a high horse I can climb onto very easily so I'll stop before I get into a real frenzy.
Good luck with your consultant appointment. You might get lucky and be pleasantly surprised. Stranger things have happened!
And best wishes to everyone else!
Gina. x
Wow, I disappear for a day or two and it's all go on here. Thanks for thinking of me folks, but babe is still within. I ended up going in to the antenatal assessment unit yesterday - with my IM - for some monitoring. Given it was 48 hrs after what could have been SROM we decided getting the all clear on both mine and baby's health would be a good thing, so we initially signed up for a CTG and then I consented to a speculum exam after quizzing the poor midwife assigned to us at great length.
Anyway, there was no sign of pooling waters when she looked inside and baby was extremely happy, so we're now assuming that they didn't go and the time pressure is off. The contractions have died right back as well, so knowing my luck it'll be weeks still. There's nothing like a bit of drama to get you organised though. We're definitely ready for our home birth now!Peanut, I would have pointed you straight to the homebirth site as well for info on homebirth and group B strep. We discussed it with our midwife at the hospital yesterday when deciding whether to have a swab done whilst I was having the speculum. We've had it done and should have the results tomorrow or Saturday. It really helps having an IM because at the end of the day, whatever the result and whatever I/we decide to do about it is entirely up to us and will be supported, but I felt that having the information would enable us to prepare accordingly, which did surprise me. It was when my midwife told me that in some parts of the country the policy for dealing with Group B Strep is not to do IV antibiotics but just to closely monitor the baby after birth (assuming all goes well, birth takes place within a sensible time frame after SROM, etc - if other things happen decisions are made based on the scenario unfolding at the time and IV antibiotics in labour may feature) that I felt happy consenting. Whatever the result, it will just help us make an informed choice about how we manage things safely and sensibly - at home.
Great letter Jenni. And copying it to AIMS was a very good idea. 37 weeks is SO 37 weeks. I've had a client who managed to negotiate home birth support from her NHS team from 36 weeks (they weren't that happy about it but she stood her ground and got the HOM to agree in the end) and they have no grounds at all to deny you appropriate care because they've chosen to give themselves a silly time frame. Let us know how it goes!
As for breech birth at home, have a read of anything you can get hold of by Mary Cronk. There's a good summary by her here: https://www.aims.org.uk/Journal/Vol10No3/handOffbreech.htm - she is the queen of breech birth. It's worth being very clued up on the difference between breech birth and breech delivery/extraction as well because an Obs might not differentiate but mean a very medicalised (barbaric?) approach when talking about breech birth when it's really a very different, very normal thing.
Amy, our daughter was diagnosed with hydronephrosis too. It was no problem for us to negotiate a home birth because they openly agreed that it should cause no issues at all with the birth and would only need to be addressed later. Like you, we were only 10 minutes from the hospital. What was more of a challenge was negotiating NOT giving her the prophylactic antibiotics from birth after a late scan showed it to have suddenly cleared up. They were insistent that it could still be there but we researched it thoroughly and decided to monitor her urine output and for signs of kidney infection before resorting to antibiotics. There were a number of reasons for this that may not be relevant to you, not least the fact that I am allergic to trimethoprim and they were insistent that this was the only antibiotic they'd use, but in the end we simply had to decide not to engage with it all. We kept a close eye on her in the first few days - and she appeared fine. We called the hospital to let them know she'd been born and to book an ultrasound for her after the fact, then took her to be scanned (she was fine). Of course, if her case had been more severe or if there had been problems we may have made other choices but for us we were very unwilling to go through pregnancy and birth drug-free, plan not to vaccinate - at least not in the time frame prescribed for us - and exclusively breastfeed to support her immune system as thoroughly as we could and then treat her with drugs she might be allergic to 'just in case'.
But that's a high horse I can climb onto very easily so I'll stop before I get into a real frenzy.
Good luck with your consultant appointment. You might get lucky and be pleasantly surprised. Stranger things have happened!
And best wishes to everyone else!
Gina. x
2ndtimeAbz
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Thankyou to all the ladies who have offered advice about possible breech birth. It had never really crossed my ming untill today and the MW panicked me a bit. After a bit of reading and research I'm quite happy the baby will probably keep turning round ( this is one active bump!), but if it doesn't then there are lots of things I can do to help
If the worst happens and I have to have a c-sect then I will just have to deal with it. Healthy baby is the most important thing!
If the worst happens and I have to have a c-sect then I will just have to deal with it. Healthy baby is the most important thing!
PeanutBean
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I can't believe you've not had your baby snagglepat! Was excited when I saw you posted thinking it would be an announcement!
Thanks for your response to my own problem. I am feeling a bit happier about the IV antibiotics if my waters go as they did last time but will insist they are done at home and I'm not going into hospital for them. I am a bit anxious, which relates to the other stuff you mentioned, about the recommendation that the baby is given antibiotics right after birth if the mother hasn't received them. Not to keen on this. The MW mentioned monitoring so hoping that might be sufficient.
Thanks for your response to my own problem. I am feeling a bit happier about the IV antibiotics if my waters go as they did last time but will insist they are done at home and I'm not going into hospital for them. I am a bit anxious, which relates to the other stuff you mentioned, about the recommendation that the baby is given antibiotics right after birth if the mother hasn't received them. Not to keen on this. The MW mentioned monitoring so hoping that might be sufficient.
LuckyD
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Wow, lots going on for everyone here!
I am sorry that many of you are having to fight so hard and coming across obstacles and frustrations when trying to get your home birth...but I am so impressed and inspired by your responses and your attitudes towards these challenges. I am lucky that (so far) I haven't had to deal with anything except positive responses from my midwife and birthing team - but if issues do arise it is the strength of the women on this thread that I will remember and will feel so much more empowered to stand up for my rights to give birth where I want!
Thanks to all of you for being an inspiration
I am sorry that many of you are having to fight so hard and coming across obstacles and frustrations when trying to get your home birth...but I am so impressed and inspired by your responses and your attitudes towards these challenges. I am lucky that (so far) I haven't had to deal with anything except positive responses from my midwife and birthing team - but if issues do arise it is the strength of the women on this thread that I will remember and will feel so much more empowered to stand up for my rights to give birth where I want!
Thanks to all of you for being an inspiration
Mervs Mum
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PB - where does the 18 hours then antibiotics come from? I've heard 24 hrs and then they want to induced you but not 18 (seems an odd number) then antibiotics.....not a protocol I am familiar with. I read just yesterday that NICE say UPTO 9 hours after rupture / suspected rupture of membranes before anything needs 'doing'.....
PeanutBean
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I assumed at the time it was just 'procedure' though having read through that homebirth site I see it comes from the GBS as more than 18 hours of waters gone increases the risk of infection in the baby. 24hrs seems to be what most places go for. What has been enlightening that with only one risk factor I should've been OFFERED the ABs not told I HAD to go into hospital for them and had no choice. So pissed off. Yet more dodgy procedure.
My contractions started right away so i'd been in active labour the whole time and didn't need induction. I ended up on the drip because as soon as good contractions kicked in while I was in the pool they whipped me out, lay me down and gave me pethidine to slow everything right back down.
My contractions started right away so i'd been in active labour the whole time and didn't need induction. I ended up on the drip because as soon as good contractions kicked in while I was in the pool they whipped me out, lay me down and gave me pethidine to slow everything right back down.
chuck
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Glad babba is safely tucked up snugglepat...although I have been all excited for nothing <faceplam> lol.
Still havent found out if Hubby's mate mangaed a natural birth or went for a CS in the end after going into labour the day before her booked CS for a breech baby....it's annoying me not knowing lol.
Still havent found out if Hubby's mate mangaed a natural birth or went for a CS in the end after going into labour the day before her booked CS for a breech baby....it's annoying me not knowing lol.
Bournefree
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You can get your consultants back up all you like, in my opinon - he isn't going to be attending your homebirth!
Seriously, if you don't feel that it is going to have a significant impact on your homebirth, then that is all that matters - you certainly don't need his approval or disapproval! He simply CAN'T put a halt to your home birth plans! It is entirely your choice and what you think and feel about it all. I'm, concerned that you have been given the impression that your consultant needs to OK it! As that is total rollocks!
xXx
chuck
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Does anyone else find it difficult sometimes in the other pregnancy boards hearing how ill informed other ladies are about their rights and what horrible thigns they have been told about their choices?
I find it so sad now I've spent over a year researching what I wanted to happen after the shock of how terribly everything went last time just how often people are misinformed and rail roaded into making choices they don't want to by their health care providers or simple lack of info.
Grr.
It boils my blood.
...oh it turns out Hubby fried did end up with a CS after going into labout naturally with her breech bubba. But all is well.
I find it so sad now I've spent over a year researching what I wanted to happen after the shock of how terribly everything went last time just how often people are misinformed and rail roaded into making choices they don't want to by their health care providers or simple lack of info.
Grr.
It boils my blood.
...oh it turns out Hubby fried did end up with a CS after going into labout naturally with her breech bubba. But all is well.
PeanutBean
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^^ I thought I was pretty well informed but I didn't kow anything about the policies over waters breaking. I only yesterday found that I shouldn't have had to go into hospital at all.
It's so hard to know until you've been through it. I do feel for the things others are told but I'm equally surprised by just how many ladies seem to want to wash their hands of it, get an epi, let the doctors do their thing...
It's so hard to know until you've been through it. I do feel for the things others are told but I'm equally surprised by just how many ladies seem to want to wash their hands of it, get an epi, let the doctors do their thing...
Bournefree
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Oh dear - that does sound like you had a rough ride!
I was wondering about the 18 hours too - seems a bit soon.
NICE guidelines state that women with a premature rupture of membranes should be offered expectant management for up to 96 hours before offering to induce labour.
Reasons being that 86% of women go into spontaneous labour within 24 hours. (as you did)
91% have gone into labour within 48 hours.
94% by the time membranes have been ruptured for 95 hours.
It appears the slippery slope of hospital intervention had it's hand in your first labour!
I've been doing some research on GBS and have found it really interesting (it wasn't something that I knew all that much about) But everyone else has given you some of the best advice.
If you need an antibiotic drip in labour, I also can't see a reason why this can't be done at home. MW have all those skills for sure. Although I know that it is unlikely to be part of your dream homebirth, and could be a pain in the bum to arrange!
It is interesting to note that 25% of women carry GBS, plus there is a 50% false negative rate with the NHS test so allot of women are just simply none the wiser.
A small number of babies acquire the infection - 1 in 1000,
The antibiotics reduce infection rates from 1 in 300 babies to 1 in 6000
Giving oral antibiotics in pregnancy appears to be ineffective, but weekly injections between 36-40 are more effective.
Glad you are feeling more confident and prepared.
xXx
PeanutBean
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^Thanks. I'm feeling quite a bit better about it all now. My present decision is that I will accept the antibiotics after 18 hours of waters going (if that happens). I will only accept them at home so they will just have to sort that out. If I don't have them because my waters don't go or labour is shorter I won't let my baby have them either unless she shows some actual signs of infection.
This whole thing has led to the discovery of even more hospital mismanagement which I hadn't even realised was mismanagement! I'm going to talk to the Supervisor of MWs about the whole experience because I think it's time someone there knew exactly what destruction their thoughtless policies cause. I will probably need a Supervisor anyway to sort out the IV at home.
Here's a quote form that homebirth site:
This so far as been the most enlightening link https://www.aims.org.uk/Journal/Vol15No4/WarOnGroupBStrep.htm
This whole thing has led to the discovery of even more hospital mismanagement which I hadn't even realised was mismanagement! I'm going to talk to the Supervisor of MWs about the whole experience because I think it's time someone there knew exactly what destruction their thoughtless policies cause. I will probably need a Supervisor anyway to sort out the IV at home.
Here's a quote form that homebirth site:
I've seen the 18 hours in other links too.
This so far as been the most enlightening link https://www.aims.org.uk/Journal/Vol15No4/WarOnGroupBStrep.htm
Bournefree
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I totally agree - it is shocking!
I'm afraid that I hear or read some other women's birth stories, (and when you really sometimes drill down into it) you can almost pin point the point of interference and intervention
Most "near miss" mums seems to come away with the impression of "thank god I was in hospital" where as sometimes, I'm just biting my tongue thinking, "I think you had the near miss, because you WERE in hospital¬!" (it's a hard thing to try and say tactfully)
It just go to show that so many women who opt for a more natural birth, are usually second or third time mums, who do not wish to repeat their previous experience and have more confidence to question what it is they are being told.
xxx
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