Hospital vs home birth?

[cosmicgirlxxx]

Just think, 50-60 years ago, it was common place to be put under GA for any and every birth. Our grandmothers or great-grandmothers experienced this most likely with every birth!

That really saddens me, I know it is not an experience I would wish on anyone - the moment of meeting your child immediately after birth taken away and replaced with meeting them X amount of hours later after everyone else, so sad

 

[moomin_troll]

pushing is the oddest sensation ever. People compare it to having a poo but its NOTHING like that, its so weird.

Could you try and describe it please

for me the two urges i got to push were strange. it was like a radiating period pain type feeling all over my bump (all my contractions where in my back) and this pressure on my pelvic floor and i knew i just needed to push

 

[Nikki_d72]

Just think, 50-60 years ago, it was common place to be put under GA for any and every birth. Our grandmothers or great-grandmothers experienced this most likely with every birth!

That really saddens me, I know it is not an experience I would wish on anyone - the moment of meeting your child immediately after birth taken away and replaced with meeting them X amount of hours later after everyone else, so sad

Yes, they called it "Twilight Sleep" and unfortunately it was touted as a feminist thing in America - the suffragettes campaigned for it to be available to all, as they beleived it would free the women from the shackles of painful labours. It was either GA using ether or similar or strong drugs with hallucinagenic side-effects, so the women ended up blindfolded and tied to beds, it was horriffic, but most women didn't remember so it continued to be seen as a great thing for many years. Such a shame that a feminist movement ended up touting something that would ultimately remove control from women over their births.

These were the precursors to modern Obstetricians, by the way, who invented this system and who led huge propagandist campaigns against midwifery, depicting midwives as old crones and witches. It was all about power and money at the time for the male only doctors in the states, and led to negative feelings about midwives and outlawed them for quite some time. it's all documented in a great book by Barbara Harper RN, called Gentle Birth Choices, it's quite a revelation, regarding the history of Obstetrics.

This kind of history can give some idea where the feeling of medicalised birth being best may have originated from and has become deeply ingrained since. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that there shouldn't be any medicalisation in birth, sometimes it's warranted (not starting that war up again!), but it puts into historical perspective the overwhelming feeling of most in "developed countries" that hospital is best - these guys did everything in their power to ensure that belief was ingrained to maintain their position.

 

[cosmicgirlxxx]

Wow, how awful, those poor ladies that went through that, sounds more like a form of torture than childbirth

 

[Tasha]

Does anyone actually know anyone whos baby has died during a homebirth? I don't but I do know of a few hospital births. Obviously you have to take into consideration that way more people hospital birth and home birth and that people who have high risk pregnancies and preterms are born in hospital too, but still

Yes I know a few, but I do know more from hospital births.

Ps. Sorry for the late chipping in on everything just catching up

 

[Nikki_d72]

Yes, there's some pretty harrowing images of it in Rikki Lake's "The Business of being Born", I can't remember if it explained it all that well what was actually going on in the film, but the book shows many of the same images and puts them in the context of what was being done to them.

 

[PeanutBean]

It's interesting you brought up feminism nikki. I strongly believe that this backwards movement we are seeing at present with regards to women controlling their labours and births is the ultimate rejection of female empowerment. I won't go into detail on my feminist ideas but it really saddens me.

On the pushing thing, as I mentioned in my first post I felt nothing first time round. The second, natural, birth was mad! I don't think I consciously pushed at all but the way my body did it was incredible! I agree blah, there was no pushing like doing a poo for me either, it was something totally new and I felt stronger doing it than anything else in my life has made me feel, physically I mean. It was pretty weird! (I describe it all in detail in my birth story for anyone interested and with a lot of time on their hands!)

 

[Nikki_d72]

I would agree regarding the feminism thing, PB. Birth is a feminist issue for me as it involves empowerment and choice (or not) for women at a defining point in their lives. It seems so ironic then that this was touted by the feminist movement, yet was run by an all-male elitist group at the time, excluding the women midwives at the time and has now backfired so badly as to remove choice and freedom in birth for so many.

 

[Tasha]

I have caught up, and wow girls, you lot are scary. If you put all that fight and fire into fighting for what ever birth (water, home, MLU, hospital, etc etc) and drug choices you will get it

Home birth has never been an option for me, because weighing up MY risks (pre-eclampsia in four pregnancies, PROM and a stillbirth at 36 weeks, an emergency section, growth restriction and a stillbirth at 24 weeks, eight miscarriages, various clotting disorders, the need to be on clexane and aspirin, severe anemia etc etc) they are just too great but I would of loved one.

I think that we all just need to make the right choices for us, and our babies. If that involves a hb then great, it if it involves a hospital birth great too. We just need to remember these are our bodies and babies, and we should have the right to make the choices we want, regardless of if they are right for anyone else.

 

[Jenniflower]

pushing is the oddest sensation ever. People compare it to having a poo but its NOTHING like that, its so weird.

I've just been lurking on this thread enjoying the view but I just to comment on this as it made me laugh because the only thing I felt while pushing was having to poo. lol. I can still remember begging the midwife to let me go to the bathroom for the 3 hours I was pushing. I kept saying to her "if you just let me get this poo out then I can push the baby next." hahahaha. She was like "Hunny, that is the baby.".

I had a rough time of it and was afraid I pooing for a good few months after. Merely because of what I felt at that time.

I know that had nothing to do with the the convo, just wanted to point out why some people think it's like pooing.

Continue...

 

[Tasha]

Lol Jenniflower, it was like that for me too. Oldest felt like that, 2nd not so much, 3rd I kept sitting on the toilet trying to do a poo and when the pessary fell out I thought oh no it isn't going to work now because I was so sure it was a poo I needed, and so it didn't dawn on me it was her head crowning, similar with my 5th which meant I had to run from the toilet (after trying to poo) with my pj bottoms by my ankles opposite a prison with the curtains open, room door was open. Lol

 

[Sherileigh]

pushing is the oddest sensation ever. People compare it to having a poo but its NOTHING like that, its so weird.

And mine felt exactly like I had to poo! I told them 'I Need to go poo', they were like nope you're ready to push. I mean it felt like a really big poo was coming. I guess we all do have very different experiences!

 

[Blah11]

pushing is the oddest sensation ever. People compare it to having a poo but its NOTHING like that, its so weird.

Could you try and describe it please

its like your body takes over whether you like it or not. You get these urges and can feel your entire abdomen contract really hard and you push down. Its really very difficult to explain LOL

 

[Linzi]

So grade 1 or 2 sections - what are they usually for? Obviously its when baby or mums life is in danger but what makes the difference between an emergency and a crash section?

Grade one will usually be a crash section this is when there is an immediate threat to mothers and/or baby's life and so therefore there isnt time for epidural, spinal blocks etc, for instance when there is a placenta abruption or perhaps when baby's heart rate is very low and not recovering, or perhaps pre-eclampsia that is uncontrolable and left may turn into eclampsia

Grade two will be an emergency section, this is when there is concern for baby and/or mother's well being but no immediate threat on either of their lives, this gives times for epidurals, spinal blocks and razors if needed. This could be like with Kaysie Blossom where baby heart rate is having decelarations and not recovering very well, this perhaps means that baby wont be getting enough oxygen.

There are also grade three and four.

Thanks for that My friends 3 month old must have been a grade 1 section. Her heart rate dipped and wouldnt go back up and she was born when her mum was fast asleep.

Yes that would be a grade one. Usually grade ones are under GA because there is no time for an injection in the back then an epi or spinal block. The only time it isnt a crash section and GA used is if someone is allergic or the epi etc doesnt take. But yes heart rate not returning is immediate danger to baby's life.

Linzi can an abruption be dealt with at home? I am guessing not because it is the placenta coming away from the wall of the uterus, possibly starving baby and oxygen and obviously involves a lot of bleeding so a danger for mum too.

Ive no idea hun I was just asking because when you go and research homebirth there isnt actually any kind of 'neutral' advice that me & my husband were looking for. Theres a load of 'homebirth is really dangerous and if you're going to do it you & your baby will die' and also 'homebirth is natural & great and nothing could ever go wrong' etcetc. Nowhere seems to actually break down facts and the majority of websites I go on no one seems to admit that actually having a homebirth can go 'wrong' just as it can in hospital. I have no idea about placental abruption, Ive not really heard of it much before.

I just have the opinion of everyone is going to choose whats right for them. For me, this time homebirth is right. It wasn't with Seth ebcause I was very very young and I didn't know what I was doing then when I went into labour I freaked out. This time my head is more sorted, I know what Im doing and Ive done a lot of reading and talking to people and Ive outweighed whatever risk and believe it is safer for me to be at home. I have a number of reasons, which may differ from others because I did have a good hospital experience last time, but I do feel that being at home is right for ME. In the same way that being in hospital is right for others.

My only bug bear (ive said it before and probably wont be the last time either!) is being labelled irresponsible or putting my babies life at risk, and the only people who seem to do that are people who don't know a lot about it. And Ive watched debates on TV in the last week which were innacurate & scaremongering which doesn't help.

A lady I work with told me if she hadn't been in hospital when her son was born he would have died, told me I was 'playing russian roulette with my baby's life' then went on to tell me the problem her son had when he was born was some mucus in the back of his throat. She didn't realise midwives bring anything with them to get baby breathing!! But SHE made me feel bad for planning a homebirth.

Another caller on The Wright Stuff last week claimed that she was so greatful for ebing in hospital because it was very dangerous as he was head down,. but turned at the last minute and she had to deliver the baby breech. You can deliver a breech baby at home. Midwives are trained to do this. the reason c sections are so common for breech births is that the skill is running out for people to actually do it.

All I want is for someone to sit down and break down the facts and for people to actually listen to each other before labelling each other with all sorts. Its not fair and someone always gets hurt Some people naturally need to go into hospital, it just stings a bit when someone tells you that you're being irresponsible when it's been a really long thought out decision for us to make and actually, we are just as safe if not safer at home.

 

[JackiePed]

I agree, Linzy, that it's hard to find unbiased facts. And perhaps that's because, though the facts don't change from one side to the other, how important those facts are are different to both sides... so it's hard to find the info all in one place. The best I've been able to do is simply get both sides from different sources, and then consider all the information I've gathered.
For your colleague at work to make that "Russian roulette" comment is just ridiculous... it's as if people think you haven't carefully considered your decision, and they think that once they say that you'll go, "What? It could be risky? Ohhhhh... I'd better think again!"

I had a woman the other day, when I was at the gas station buying a Diet Coke, and she started to ring me up without the drink. I said, "Oh and this too." and she paused, and then said, "Oh... for your husband?" and I said, "Nope.. for me..." and she leaned closer to me and almost whispered, "But... aren't you... pregnant?"

I wanted to fake a really shocked face, let my hands fly to my belly and say, "Oh!! So I am!! Well, no Coke for me. Whew! That was a close one..."

I realize my caffeine story is a totally different level than your decision to have a homebirth, but it just makes me think : People have got to stop and realize that women aren't stupid...and that you didn't just wake up one day and say, "Well, I don't really feel like going alllll the way to the hospital... I mean packing a bag is such a drag.... I think I'll just deliver here. Whew. Glad that's settled."

Hope you told your colleague where to stick it.... as nicely as you could manage.

 

[PeanutBean]

In analysing my first birth and planning for my second one of the biggest problems was that the 'facts' do change. For example, take GBS. The hospital policy is to administer iv antibiotics at the onset of labour. There is no clinical evidence for doing this. There is evidence that if waters are gone for 18hours the risk of gbs infection increases which is hardly the onset of labour. In fact a Cochrane review questions that there is any evidence even backing up the use of antibiotics during labour at all! Women get terrified into accepting certain care practices without knowing that there might not even be evidence in favour of using them or what the risks would be. Gbs incidence has gone down in the US, attributed to a massive programme of testing and antibiotics for every positive woman (a quarter of the population). But that doesn't mean that birth infections are going down, GBS is simply being replaced with (primarily) ampicillin-resistant E.coli.

I'm not intending to get into any sort of row about gbs but use it merely to illustrate that facts are not always so factual after all!

 

[lynnikins]

Just strange to think that in most hospitals in the UK ive been in then the trip from ward to theatre is more than 7 min even at a run from the MW unit where i gave birth twice then it would have been 10+ min to get me into theatre and under GA and that was if they had run full pelt with the bed down the corridors with nobody in the way and that there were staff on hand plus a team ready, not all hospitals are well equipped enough to have a whole team constantly on standby in theatre and its quite normal for women to get told they cant have an EPI because the person needed is busy in theatre.

My Information came from my MW's and consultant who have worked at my local hospital for years. Of course the higher risk your pregnancy is then the more likely they will want to make sure they have the staff on hand but when i gave birth to ds2 they didnt even have beds for the 4 of us who were being induced that night we were together on a post natal ward till we actually were about to give birth then moved to a private room then back out again to the ward asap afterwards caus the hospital was just that busy!

 

[Laura2919]

I love the idea of a home birth but I was carrying twins and I also had a really bad and scary labour and delivery (for my family and friends as I was asleep through my delivery lol)
I worry that if I had a homebirth and I needed the care from a hospital I wouldnt get there in time. My hospital was fantastic with me.

 

[KittyVentura]

I love the idea of a home birth. I view it as very romantic and serene lol. However I am too much of a worrier and I need to know that if (IF) something went wrong or the baby was distressd etc that I am already in the right place for them to safely get baby out... by whatever means necessary xxx

 

[lynnikins]

pushing is the oddest sensation ever. People compare it to having a poo but its NOTHING like that, its so weird.

Could you try and describe it please

its like your body takes over whether you like it or not. You get these urges and can feel your entire abdomen contract really hard and you push down. Its really very difficult to explain LOL

I defo got the urge to push with EJ lol and if i could have just breathed through with a little pushing it not pushed all guns blazing i could have possibly avoided the tear i got lol, so my Aim has changed to allow my body to do the "pushing" and to just give in and let it rather than put my own force into it as well. i dont recall the urge with Nate defo not in the pool or during the Ventouse delivery it was simply a case of following instructions but it was my first and I didnt know differently , its quite probable that my body was to exausted so nature disrupted that "push" message getting to my brain since i was in no state to be able to pick up and care for a newborn.

excuse the hippy-esk theme but for me my body defo tells me when its safe for me to have the baby or not hence why i didnt even start labor natrually with ds2 but was induced lol and why i cant labor sucessfully when im stressed at all which led to stop start ( nightly ) labor for 10 days before labor started with ds1

which i guess is why im set in my head now more than ever ( thanks to this debate in part ) about having the birth that I know will have me in the best frame of mind to safely bring this baby into the world. lol now the job is convicing my consultant to let me birth a 10lb+ baby at home