I Am Just Curious

The system in the USA blows...it's quite frankly, embarrassing...The small changes that the Obama administration attempted to make will more than likely be reversed. Health insurance costs are ridiculous, and insurance is covering less and less. Infertility is only covered by insurance companies if it is mandated by law in that state.....only 13 of 50 states mandate it....It is a big, hot mess over here ladies...be certain that you are lucky to be in the UK...

And by the way...in my state, it is actually illegal to have a home birth with a midwife!

Ridiculous!

Oh, don't get me started...

Even with health insurance, people can go bankrupt here if they are unfortunate enough to have to deal with a longterm chronic illness...

You UK ladies are fortunate....you have the national system...and u can go private...
 
The system in the USA blows...it's quite frankly, embarrassing...The small changes that the Obama administration attempted to make will more than likely be reversed. Health insurance costs are ridiculous, and insurance is covering less and less. Infertility is only covered by insurance companies if it is mandated by law in that state.....only 13 of 50 states mandate it....It is a big, hot mess over here ladies...be certain that you are lucky to be in the UK...

And by the way...in my state, it is actually illegal to have a home birth with a midwife!

Ridiculous!

Oh, don't get me started...

Even with health insurance, people can go bankrupt here if they are unfortunate enough to have to deal with a longterm chronic illness...

You UK ladies are fortunate....you have the national system...and u can go private...

You are free to get started and I completely agree with you!:hugs: When my DD was born, 14 years ago, I had just started a new job, so my policy did not cover anything maternity related; 180 waiting period. The entire pregnancy was out of pocket. But here is the sad part, the company was more than willing to cover her once she was born!

It is illegal for a homebirth here as well; my insurance will not pay for anything besides a hospital.

The appellate courts on the state level are already declaring parts of Obamacare unconstitutional under the 10th and 14th Amendments. It is indeed very sad! :nope:
 
Good grief I didn't realise how the US worked with health care but that seems to unfair :nope:

I must admit I have always had good experiences with the NHS and somehow seem to have always found good doctors :) but I know many have had bad experiences :nope:

In fact I had some private treatment last year after a car accident (the other driver's fault and his insurance covered all my costs) but I actually had worse treatment and only after threatening to take legal action against the insurance company did they sort my treatment and fix my injury :nope:
 
Since you're talking about fertility treatments and insurance, it made me think of maternity leave. I was chatting with a women on this forum who gets 2 years of paid maternity leave. I'm ready to leave the states and move to Sweden!!!

I get 6 weeks of leave. My disability takes 2 weeks to kick in, which lowers the pay to 4 weeks. Of those 4 weeks, I get 60% of my usual pay. So, in 6 weeks of maternity leave, I'll get about 2 weeks of pay. This is standard for the US. Sometimes you can take an additional 6 weeks off, but it's unpaid.

On a side note. My insurance will cover for fertility treatments. A lifetime of $15,000. And for my maternity care and delivery, I did not pay a single penny. Not even a single office co-pay! At least that party is good.
 
Since you're talking about fertility treatments and insurance, it made me think of maternity leave. I was chatting with a women on this forum who gets 2 years of paid maternity leave. I'm ready to leave the states and move to Sweden!!!

I get 6 weeks of leave. My disability takes 2 weeks to kick in, which lowers the pay to 4 weeks. Of those 4 weeks, I get 60% of my usual pay. So, in 6 weeks of maternity leave, I'll get about 2 weeks of pay. This is standard for the US. Sometimes you can take an additional 6 weeks off, but it's unpaid.

On a side note. My insurance will cover for fertility treatments. A lifetime of $15,000. And for my maternity care and delivery, I did not pay a single penny. Not even a single office co-pay! At least that party is good.

I am a small business owner/self-employed; this = nothing, lol. Sweden looks good, France too!:thumbup:
 
Oh, do not get me started on maternity leave....

I would move to the UK in a heartbeat if you had better weather...
 
:haha:

Wooly...I have curly, long hair...every day would be a bad hair day for me in the UK...and the gray skies and drizzle, I fear, would be dreadful for my mood...
 
We do get sun occasionally but admittedly not as much as some areas of the US :)
 
The way I see it there are pros and cons to both systems, neither system is perfect, and they probably have more in common than most people realize.

There is no such thing as a free lunch. Nothing is free anywhere, for anyone. I lived in the Netherlands for a long time, where health care is very similar to the UK. In the NHS you don't pay for your health care directly, but you are paying for it with your taxes. I think most Americans would be appalled if they knew how high taxes are in countries with "free" health care, compared to the taxes we pay here. In the US, our taxes are a lot lower but when it comes to health care, you pay as you use it. Either way, there is still a cost associated with the care.

The postcode lottery you have to play in the UK is similar to what we go through here, where each insurance company gets to decide what diseases and conditions they'll cover and which they won't, and how much they'll pay for each procedure/office visit/prescription/etc. That's why one insurance company covers fertility treatments but another won't. (That's not all based on state mandates, btw - I live in Indiana where there's no mandate, but my insurance covers fertility treatments.)

American politicians love to talk about people being denied health care, but that is not the case. Current law states that it is illegal to turn anyone away from an emergency room, regardless of their ability to pay for their treatment. That is precisely why emergency rooms are overloaded - people go there because they can't afford treatment elsewhere. The big problem with the US system is not access to health care, but affordability of health care insurance coverage. Whether the new law will help that remains to be seen. Whether you like it or don't, at least it's a start. I'm not sure how I feel about it yet - I'm trying to withhold judgment until we see....

The grass is always greener on the other side, but both systems have their flaws - and their advantages. But that's just my two cents'. I would just love it if the politicians would discuss it like adults instead of clinging to their ideologies and refusing to compromise and find a happy medium.
 
You are right and there are rights and wrongs on both sides.

Not sure how taxes work in the US but in the UK we pay National Insurance and taxes which come directly from the salaries and then we pay to the local government Council Tax which is based on the value of the property you live in up to a certain threshold and the amount varies from council to council.

National Insurance goes towards the NHS; ambulance service; subsidised dental and optical treatment and state pensions. Taxes go to central government for defence; police force; social services; politicans' salaries, etc. Council tax pays for street lighting, refuse collection, police force also; social services also and fire brigade to name but a few.

The National Insurance premiums are about 12-14% based on salary and separate to that we pay tax which is 20% up to approx £35,000 per annum then for anything you are taxed 40% up to £150,000 per annum then over £150,000 you pay 50% tax on that so if you're lucky enough to be a high or medium wage earner you pay to or three different tax bands :shrug:

Then on certain products when we shop we pay VAT (Value Added Tax) which went up to 20% this year.

But once we have had these outgoings that's it so it might be more but seems very inclusive to me.

As said though by HappyAuntie the grass is greener :)
 
As to the comment 'there is nothing like a free lunch' - i beg to differ. I live in Scotland and we dont pay anything for our prescritions and its great :haha:

Having lived both in Norway, Poland and the US i think i can unequivocally say that the UK has the best system and the US by far has the worst. Even Norway can't compare.

Having said that, there is no such thing as a perfect system and different parts of the NHS system works and applies things differently. However, Ive never had any problems here at all and i am very impressed with the NHS overall.

The maternity leave here is pretty good also although not the best there is (Scandinavia wins there i think). Paternity leave is a paltry 2 weeks and although some changes have been made i dont think it 's good enough. Having said that, depending on your job ( I work for the council) maternity leave can be pretty good -a colleague of mine just came back to work after 47 weeks off after having used some annual leave too, that's not too shabby having only done the 9 month statutory leave? :)

Ideally, everybody should have access to a state of the art health system when and how they need it - sadly this is not the case most places and every system has room for improvement!
 
Omi...is that your kitty? That pic is hilarious. Reminds me of our male cat...who we thought was female...who we named Zoe...and then Zoe George...but call him Don Juan Casanova Fabio George....or just Fabio...cuz he's such a lover....
 
Sorry to read and run I'm on way to bed . Good luck with all the answers you need. I'm British , now living in Asia and have lived in Au so have experienced care across the board. I'm still a believer in the nhs having lived in Oz where youmhave to pay for everything. Having said that the nhs is under massive strain. I believe in an acute situation you cant get better however for chronic illness there are gaps , and yes sadly your post code has a huge influence. There are many unrealistic targets. that staff across the board are forced to keep within. Although in Australia you pay for everything , my husband was serious ill and we didn't pay a penny when he was admitted as there is a respirical agreement between UK and AU in emergency situations. The care was second to non without the same pressures as the NHS .
You should never have a problem with referral , but may have to wait. Private in the UK
is very expensive without cover . A lot of people feel this is a better level of care but things like blood bank accecability , crash team etc are not always on site . Depends again what you may need. The fancy surroundings don't always equal great service , but you won't have to wait. On the plus side most of the private drs all do public work so they're excellent and keep up to date.
Good luck with all of this . Take care
 
Thankfully the NHS are changing a little on fertility issues as a scientific study has come out and states that infertility should be treated like a disease as it can cause the same amount of emotional and mental stress as something such as cancer. (Sorry can't find the study at the moment)

How you're treated on the NHS unfortunately varies from area to area. I am registered with a specific GP at my doctor's practice but I am able to see any doctor that works at the surgery. But a friend in a different county has to see the doctor she is registered with an only in an emergency can she see one of the other doctors in the surgery.

We are lucky in the UK in that we don't worry about the expense associated with medical treatment and I think that is one of the reasons why we consider some private treatment as expensive just because we have nothing to compare it to :shrug:

At the moment DH and I have just started researching IVF in case it is a route we may need to consider at a future date and to be honest we are surprised by how reasonable we think the costs are (although once we know all the hidden costs it may not seem so reasonable). Unfortunately as we are over 40 we know IVF on the NHS won't happen.

GPs in the UK deal with patients on a day to day basis and refer on for anything needing specialist or hospital treatment. My DH has diabetes and it is the GP and a specialist diabetic nurse who deal with him. I just see my GP for everything but I am book in with a nurse for my cervical smear every 3 years (not sure if a cervical smear is the pap smear that you ladies in the US talk about).

I can see the pros and cons of the UK and US health care systems

I am pretty sure that the cervical smear and pap smear are one in the same; however, my insurance requires that I get one yearly.

For instance, I go to my GP or OB/GYN and I pay a copay for the visit- $20. My GYN will handle any fertility, up to the point of IUI, and then it is off to a RE. However, my insurance will pay for the testing and medication (with a copay) for fertitlity treatments, but the actual procedures would be paid out of pocket. The range I have gotten is anywhere from $800 for IUI, to $20-40,000 for IVF.

What I find interesting, is that the use of a midwife seems to be common practice in Europe, where as in the States, or at least my area, a midwife is viewed as a luxury. :wacko:

Midwives are also viewed as a threat by the AMA.

The AMA (overall, as an organization; I'm not slaying individual physicians) views anyone who has a scope of practice greater than the one granted by the initials "RN" (with the exception of PAs, a separate entity) as a threat to the "establishment".

IMHO - and I swear I'm not trying to hijack this thread - the AMA would better serve itself by viewing ALL of us who are in the medical community as a TEAM - ONE TEAM - and realize the niches that could be filled (and the stresses relieved by the shortage of GPs and OB/GYNs) by advance practice nursing specialties. They embrace PAs because PAs are taught by the medical model. They still view RNs (and by extension ANYONE who started their career as an RN, as most midwives and all NPs do) somewhat as handmaidens.

Grr. Had to vent. Sorry. Back to the thread....
 
Sorry to read and run I'm on way to bed . Good luck with all the answers you need. I'm British , now living in Asia and have lived in Au so have experienced care across the board. I'm still a believer in the nhs having lived in Oz where youmhave to pay for everything. Having said that the nhs is under massive strain. I believe in an acute situation you cant get better however for chronic illness there are gaps , and yes sadly your post code has a huge influence. There are many unrealistic targets. that staff across the board are forced to keep within. Although in Australia you pay for everything , my husband was serious ill and we didn't pay a penny when he was admitted as there is a respirical agreement between UK and AU in emergency situations. The care was second to non without the same pressures as the NHS .
You should never have a problem with referral , but may have to wait. Private in the UK
is very expensive without cover . A lot of people feel this is a better level of care but things like blood bank accecability , crash team etc are not always on site . Depends again what you may need. The fancy surroundings don't always equal great service , but you won't have to wait. On the plus side most of the private drs all do public work so they're excellent and keep up to date.
Good luck with all of this . Take care


What is needed is a mix of the best of both worlds - and given the size of this country - over three hundred million people - there's no way we could completely support the medical needs of this country with our own NHS. I'd love to see an NHS for primary care - so many diseases could be eliminated and so many of them could be caught earlier with good, solid primary care in this country. Nationalize the primary care, leave the option of private insurance, and do some sort of mix for the secondary and tertiary care.

I'm sorry for airing my views on this, but as a nurse - and as one interested in primary care as an NP, who was essentially raised in this country's version of an NHS before my father retired (military medicine - in reality it's the closest thing we've got) and who now works for it, I realize the desperate situation this nation's in and how badly something needs to be done. I lived without the protection of the old CHAMPUS and now the TRICARE system for several years and believe me, it was scary as hell. I even spent two years of my life with no coverage at all. REALLY scary.

I'm married to a Brit - so I've seen and heard the other side of the pond's situation and its problems - but I agree with the individual on this board who said anything's better than when you essentially get nothing.

As for high taxes, take a good look at the "hidden" taxes you pay in this country. Our tax rate is as high - if not higher - than England's. And we get nothing. There's no safety net. If you lose your job, YOU COULD DIE in this country. We are the only First World nation on this earth where people go bankrupt because they got sick. (If you want to see something really scary, go on the Public Television website and look for the episode of FRONTLINE called "Sick Around the World" - watch the jaws of the MDs in the other nations they visit literally drop when they're told people in the US go bankrupt because they can't pay for medical care.) It's part of what drove me back to active duty after nursing school: I'd see some 30 year old with Stage IV metastatic ovarian cancer, and I'd think, holy crap, what will I do if that's me, and I can't work?

In this country, if you lose your job, you lose your insurance. Don't believe that Medicaid kicks in - it doesn't. If you still own your house, you probably won't get Medicaid. Your assets could be worth way too much to qualify. Medicare only kicks in if you're 65 or older or suffer from end stage renal disease. No private hospital in this country will treat you for something like cancer if you continuously are unable to foot the bill - and they don't have to. An emergency department cannot let you die, but an MD does not have to treat a chronic disease like cancer, with treatments that cost thousands of dollars EVERY TIME YOU GO TO THE CLINIC (i.e., in the course of a day, i can hang about ten to thirty grand's worth of chemotherapy on a handful of patients). No public hospital has to treat your cancer either - not that most of them could, since they rely on the big university and referral centers to treat their own patient population.

My boss told me that, after retirement, she came BACK to military medicine to work because of a conference she once sat in on at a major university health system. She actually HEARD a committee deny someone a bone marrow transplant - which would have cured her cancer - because that woman lost her job BECAUSE she had cancer and couldn't work. She lost her insurance and therefore lost her ability to pay. It's an allocation of resources game - and this uninsured woman lost because she had no way to pay. The hospital committee had no choice but to deny the procedure. True story. It's not something I'd lie about.

There is no safety net in this country.

In this country, we have some of the most advanced medical care in the world, and it's inaccessible to over fifteen percent of us. Almost ten percent of us - about 28 to 30 million - are underinsured, so we get inadequate coverage for services that we can't hope to pay for. And the AARP says 1.8 million Americans file for bankruptcy every year due to medical bills, and that 50 to 60 percent of ALL bankruptcies in this country are prompted by medical expenses people can't pay.

They say most of us are one major illness away - in fact, one good car wreck, really - from bankruptcy.

Complete socialization of medicine is not the answer. But the present system is not doing the most good (don't even get me started on what's wrong with the pharmaceutical and insurance industries in this country) and even those of us covered under it aren't benefiting in the best way. I know. I've lived it, and I have friends and family breaking under it. Something has to change.


OK - thanks for letting me vent!!!! :wacko:
 
Tiggertoo - it sounds like a scary situation if you are uninsured!
 
Tiggertoo - it sounds like a scary situation if you are uninsured!

Being uninsured can be a nightmare; the only choice one would have is to go without medical care, pray they could find a low cost clinic, or head to the ER; it becomes cyclical- medical costs need to be capped, but then due to lack of insurance, people end up in the ER for routine care.

There are many facets to the problem: medicine in the US is a business, no different from Walmart; drug costs are through the roof and drug development takes years, maybe decades to make it through the FDA. More focus is directed at a cure and not prevention.

It's by no means perfect and there is a lot of room for improvement.
 
Good grief I had no idea what the US was like on healthcare :nope:

I feel blessed to in the UK and realise if my in laws were in the US there is every chance they would selling their home to pay for my FIL's treatment as he is currently battling oral cancer :(
 

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