Illegal drugs - worse than legal ones?

[Eve]

Everything ruins lives hon.. including mommy deciding she wants a divorce, daddy cheating... oh there we go, lets make sex illegal too, as it is addictive and ruins lives, just phone up Tiger and he could tell you! Oh my! What about Jesse, ask him, lives ruined people... come on! Caffiene ruins lives by truckers taking loads of caffiene be in coffee, pills, drinks, and then crashing their huge deadly weapon into Jim,Betty,little Timmy and Jenny on their way home from Grandma's house! Say what you wish, but you can't change research and scientific proof, just can't, sorry. I don't think anyone I know in the Fredericton/Oromocto/Minto(drug capital of NB) have sold their children for POT to sell... maybe in other places, but I don't think it's much more common than we think. Sure it happens and it is a terrible, ungodly thing and those people should be put away for life, but look how many children are sold in poor countries for food, donkeys etc... it happens everywhere, bad things always will happen and it is terrible beyond words... I just believe my tax dollars shouldn't go towards keeping some guy in prison for growing his own pot and smoking it in his home without disturbing anyone! I would much rather the money go to prevention methods to help lower the amount of people who grow up to sell it, and more programs for struggling families and programs to teach more self respect since it's not the pot making society bad, it's the closed minded, uneducated, too into their career and money parents who don't give a crap and let the streets raise their children.

 

[BlackBerry25]

I think it should be legal in Canada, and I honestly think a HUGE percentage of Canadians smoke it but don't want to admit it, as it is illegal right now (barely)

It seems like such a waste of Canadian tax payers money to enforce this law.

I live in Canada and I don't smoke it nor would I ever want it legal. The death rate quoted in the second post is completely useless. Lives can be destroyed by any drug that alters the mind, as pot does. Impaired driving isn't just drinking...and working for the police, I have seen this with my own eyes. People go to jail for it. Oh puleeze people...it is illegal, the police WILL charge you, and people DO go to jail. Does that not ruin lives? What about the children whose parents are in jail for selling and growing pot. Those lives are ruined. Or how about the little girl whose parents decided to "buy" their weed by letting the dealers have their way with her as payment (apparently this happens more than we want to know). Smoking can cause throat and lung cancer. That kills. Smoking pot can also make you more vulnerable to trying other drugs such as heroine. My SIL had her first heroine injection while under the influence of pot...10 years later, she is an ex-hooker, on methadone, HIV positive, and her daughter was taken from her. All because of pot. It is illegal, and I see the thugs who smoke it, deal it, and grow it. It isn't pretty.

You are talking extreme cases. I bet you a lot of people that are normal every day people that you know, smoke it occasionally. Pretty much every person I know, has smoked it at least once, and they are all good, hardworking, normal middle upper class people. Most people aren't running huge grow op's or selling. Most people in jail for weed had a big grow op, I wouldn't say there are a lot of parents in jail and their kids put into the foster care system because of pot alone.

 

[BlackBerry25]

And she chose to do heroin. That has nothing to do with weed. You could say hey she ate a big mac and then did heroin. Let's blame McDonalds.

Thugs are thugs, with or without weed. Weed isn't making people go out and commit crimes. People don't rob places for weed. It is not that type of addictive drug. IMO and experience.

I grew up on a reserve, with huge drinking problems. I really don't get why alcohol is legal but weed isn't.

 

[Dopeyjopey]

I think it should be legal in Canada, and I honestly think a HUGE percentage of Canadians smoke it but don't want to admit it, as it is illegal right now (barely)

It seems like such a waste of Canadian tax payers money to enforce this law.

I live in Canada and I don't smoke it nor would I ever want it legal. The death rate quoted in the second post is completely useless. Lives can be destroyed by any drug that alters the mind, as pot does. Impaired driving isn't just drinking...and working for the police, I have seen this with my own eyes. People go to jail for it. Oh puleeze people...it is illegal, the police WILL charge you, and people DO go to jail. Does that not ruin lives? What about the children whose parents are in jail for selling and growing pot. Those lives are ruined. Or how about the little girl whose parents decided to "buy" their weed by letting the dealers have their way with her as payment (apparently this happens more than we want to know). Smoking can cause throat and lung cancer. That kills. Smoking pot can also make you more vulnerable to trying other drugs such as heroine. My SIL had her first heroine injection while under the influence of pot...10 years later, she is an ex-hooker, on methadone, HIV positive, and her daughter was taken from her. All because of pot. It is illegal, and I see the thugs who smoke it, deal it, and grow it. It isn't pretty.

You are talking extreme cases. I bet you a lot of people that are normal every day people that you know, smoke it occasionally. Pretty much every person I know, has smoked it at least once, and they are all good, hardworking, normal middle upper class people. Most people aren't running huge grow op's or selling. Most people in jail for weed had a big grow op, I wouldn't say there are a lot of parents in jail and their kids put into the foster care system because of pot alone.

I agree. If cannabis were to be legalised a lot of those problems would disappear. It would also not be coated in glass or sugar to increase the weight because it could be quality checked. Same with other drugs - you'd be getting what you bought, not cut with epsom salts (giving you the runs), or any other nasties that end up going up peoples' noses. Or even worse, a completely different drug all together!

 

[JASMAK]

Everything ruins lives hon.. including mommy deciding she wants a divorce, daddy cheating... oh there we go, lets make sex illegal too, as it is addictive and ruins lives, just phone up Tiger and he could tell you! Oh my! What about Jesse, ask him, lives ruined people... come on! Caffiene ruins lives by truckers taking loads of caffiene be in coffee, pills, drinks, and then crashing their huge deadly weapon into Jim,Betty,little Timmy and Jenny on their way home from Grandma's house! Say what you wish, but you can't change research and scientific proof, just can't, sorry. I don't think anyone I know in the Fredericton/Oromocto/Minto(drug capital of NB) have sold their children for POT to sell... maybe in other places, but I don't think it's much more common than we think. Sure it happens and it is a terrible, ungodly thing and those people should be put away for life, but look how many children are sold in poor countries for food, donkeys etc... it happens everywhere, bad things always will happen and it is terrible beyond words... I just believe my tax dollars shouldn't go towards keeping some guy in prison for growing his own pot and smoking it in his home without disturbing anyone! I would much rather the money go to prevention methods to help lower the amount of people who grow up to sell it, and more programs for struggling families and programs to teach more self respect since it's not the pot making society bad, it's the closed minded, uneducated, too into their career and money parents who don't give a crap and let the streets raise their children.

I respect your opinion, but believe me...people are jailed and children ARE put in foster care. That is my job with the RCMP...and I know. And it is for drugs...all kinds, but pot is the biggest. And, some of these people are from so-called good families with drug issues. But, anyways, I can't say anymore about that, as you can imagine, I cannot disclose information. The girl I mentioned earlier was a press release, so that is why I used that one.

But, you know the BIGGEST thing I dislike about this whole issue...those who think it is OK to do it front of their kids (not saying this is you). How is it OK to teach your children that drugs are OK? That is NOT a society I want to belong to. It is not OK to do drugs in front of kids..PERIOD. I don't care how "soft" people say it is. I wouldn't drink or smoke (I don't anyways) in front of a child either. I am not talking a glass of wine, I am talking drinking to get drunk...I mean, get some boundaries, right? I know pot heads that are so stupid that they can barely have a conversation. There is this one kids at my son's school who wants play dates with my son, but I know that the dad smokes pot (because all the parents talk about him) and I say no. No playdates with that family because they do pot.

 

[Eve]

And she chose to do heroin. That has nothing to do with weed. You could say hey she ate a big mac and then did heroin. Let's blame McDonalds.

Thugs are thugs, with or without weed. Weed isn't making people go out and commit crimes. People don't rob places for weed. It is not that type of addictive drug. IMO and experience.

I grew up on a reserve, with huge drinking problems. I really don't get why alcohol is legal but weed isn't.

Bang on! I feel the same way. My son's father lives on a reserve as well as most of his family and I lived there for a while when I was younger. We used to see two older men who weren't well piss drunk all the time.. they would walk out in front of cars, fall down large hills etc... it was so sad. The alcohol is way more of a problem on that reserve, as well as the hard drugs, compared to pot. Shame alcohol can be looked at as fine in moderation, but pot is oh so terrible.

Everything ruins lives hon.. including mommy deciding she wants a divorce, daddy cheating... oh there we go, lets make sex illegal too, as it is addictive and ruins lives, just phone up Tiger and he could tell you! Oh my! What about Jesse, ask him, lives ruined people... come on! Caffiene ruins lives by truckers taking loads of caffiene be in coffee, pills, drinks, and then crashing their huge deadly weapon into Jim,Betty,little Timmy and Jenny on their way home from Grandma's house! Say what you wish, but you can't change research and scientific proof, just can't, sorry. I don't think anyone I know in the Fredericton/Oromocto/Minto(drug capital of NB) have sold their children for POT to sell... maybe in other places, but I don't think it's much more common than we think. Sure it happens and it is a terrible, ungodly thing and those people should be put away for life, but look how many children are sold in poor countries for food, donkeys etc... it happens everywhere, bad things always will happen and it is terrible beyond words... I just believe my tax dollars shouldn't go towards keeping some guy in prison for growing his own pot and smoking it in his home without disturbing anyone! I would much rather the money go to prevention methods to help lower the amount of people who grow up to sell it, and more programs for struggling families and programs to teach more self respect since it's not the pot making society bad, it's the closed minded, uneducated, too into their career and money parents who don't give a crap and let the streets raise their children.

I respect your opinion, but believe me...people are jailed and children ARE put in foster care. That is my job with the RCMP...and I know. And it is for drugs...all kinds, but pot is the biggest. And, some of these people are from so-called good families with drug issues. But, anyways, I can't say anymore about that, as you can imagine, I cannot disclose information. The girl I mentioned earlier was a press release, so that is why I used that one.

But, you know the BIGGEST thing I dislike about this whole issue...those who think it is OK to do it front of their kids (not saying this is you). How is it OK to teach your children that drugs are OK? That is NOT a society I want to belong to. It is not OK to do drugs in front of kids..PERIOD. I don't care how "soft" people say it is. I wouldn't drink or smoke (I don't anyways) in front of a child either. I am not talking a glass of wine, I am talking drinking to get drunk...I mean, get some boundaries, right? I know pot heads that are so stupid that they can barely have a conversation. There is this one kids at my son's school who wants play dates with my son, but I know that the dad smokes pot (because all the parents talk about him) and I say no. No playdates with that family because they do pot.

I also have said I do not think it should be around children. I do not like it around/near my son. My OH smokes it outside, usually when the kids are in bed. Pot isn't even kept inside my home, or where my son could easily gain access to it.

My OH smokes an occasionl joint... same darn thing IMO...

This bothers me a lot. You seem so judgemental We are a great family, and I have good morals, good faith and respect. We are a good family and for someone to not let their child play with mine because my OH smokes pot is sad and not fair to the child... getting to know them first might be a good idea, then go from there. I know you might miss out if you didn't want to get to know me because of my OH's occasional pot smoking...

 

[JASMAK]

I guess my work makes me judgemental...I see the worst of the worst. I am not judgemental in all areas of life, just drugs. I hate them. They DO ruin lives. Maybe not yours, maybe not your friends, but they do ruin people's lives. And yes, my SIL did choose to do the drugs, everyone does, as your hubby does. But, she does think that she wouldn't have had that first injection if she wasn't high on pot. And that speaks to me. People can become addicted to heroine the first time they try it.

And just to be clear, in your highlighted part I said "not saying this is you"...I am just highlighting that again for you. I am talking in general here. So, if your hubby does do it in front of the kids, then I am including him, if not, then I am not. I am talking in general. To me, there is NO excuse to do any drug in front of children. And, hey, it's MY CHOICE (such as choosing to smoke pot etc) to not have playdates with that child. Nothing against the child, everything to do with the parents. He has come here, but my son will NEVER go there. I am sorry if that has struck a chord with you. As I said earlier, drugs DO hurt...and this is a prime example. And, I do let him come over (once) and he was a nice boy, but I know many parents who will not let their child play with him. It is sad, but, they are worried. They are worried that this boy may have easy access to pot, and that he may smoke it, and their child will be with him and do it too. I am sure you can understand those fears, can you not?

 

[Dopeyjopey]

Jasmak, do you see alcohol as a drug?

 

[Eve]

In your first post on the subject you said NO playdates with the child at all... it's different when you have the child at your home, a little less judgemental to say the least. Your prime example of drug hurting could be just you. Like I said, unless you know the father you shouldn't judge him on one thing he does. I don't smoke it , but when I was a teen I had easy access to it... HIGH SCHOOL lol. It's everywhere. I bet at least one of the teachers at your child's school smokes it...

 

[JASMAK]

Jasmak, do you see alcohol as a drug?

TBH, I don't drink, and I am not for drinking. I am not saying it should be illegal, but I am not for it, I don't do it, and neither does hubby. We would NEVER in front of the kids, but this isn't about alcohol, it's about pot. And yes, alcohol is a drug.

 

[JASMAK]

In your first post on the subject you said NO playdates with the child at all... it's different when you have the child at your home, a little less judgemental to say the least. Your prime example of drug hurting could be just you. Like I said, unless you know the father you shouldn't judge him on one thing he does. I don't smoke it , but when I was a teen I had easy access to it... HIGH SCHOOL lol. It's everywhere. I bet at least one of the teachers at your child's school smokes it...

Sure, it's everywhere...but, I can't blame the parents for not wanting them to play with him, and TBH, as much as I don't like to admit it, I don't really want Jasper playing with this boy because of it...like I mean, at all. But, I am not going to do that...I am just saying how I feel. I am being honest here. I know you may think that is judgemental (isn't that you judging me too?) but that is how I feel. Perhaps this will be something for you to take away though...that not everyone is cool with it, kwim? Also, your friend (I think it was you who said you had a friend who was a police officer who smoked pot)...I would be VERY careful what you say about this person. They could lose their job for that, kwim? I just wouldn't spread it around, espesially on the internet.

 

[Dopeyjopey]

It isn't just about pot - it's about legal and illegal drugs, as i stated in the first post when i started the debate. I only asked.because i know a huge number of people that say 'drugs' and don't realise they are also talking about caffeine, tobacco, paracetamol and food as well as cannabis, heroin, crack etc.

You obviously do though so we agree

My point is they either need to legalise those drugs proven to be less harmful than alcohol/tobacco/caffeine (caffeine is fatal when you OD) or ban stuff proven to be mpre harmful than is already legal.

 

[PeanutBean]

Interesting debate. I certainly consider alcohol, tobacco etc as drugs and they certainly have a large detrimental effect on society as a whole and people's individual/family lives. Illegal drugs, well they can't all really be discussed as a group as the effects are many and varied. Whilst the revenue is important economically this could also be made on other drugs if that was really all that mattered. I think in the uk at least there is an awful lot of history surrounding our legal drugs, particularly alcohol. Binge drinking is no new thing.

You know all those stats about the differences in life expectancy and state of health between the different uk classes? It's almost all explained by smoking. I think it a very sad thing for our society that we can't do something about this. Despite how easily alcohol can wreck things, in a night, I'd rather see smoking banned to protect our people.

On cocaine, in my adult lifetime I have seen the change in tha drug's use all because of a drop in price. I think it's very concerning though I know a lot of people that have used it and been fine. I think I'm right in thinking it's non-addictive? Crack being a whole different story of course.

Hallucinogenic drugs, LSD and the likes seem to have Bern out of fashion for a while. Except mushrooms! Dunno how I feel about them except I certainly wouldn't want to use them. I value my brain's ability to understand the world around me!

And pot. Well I've smoked it. Was pretty unimpressed. And I agree with jasmak that whilst pot don't kill you as such it has many other ways or seriously impacting on a person's life. There was a mention of scientific evidence in a previous post - well there is a strong and growing body evidence on the long term, permanent, impact of pot on mental health. It's difficult to measure because it's nigh on impossible to gauge a person's use, especially given variation in individual batches and types. But the evidence grows nonetheless. I've known an awful lot of people of various ages who have smoked lot to varying degrees. I have to say that 99% of the time it's not pretty. I've lived in the world of the full time pothead. Wow it's boring. No brain activity there. I've seen older people, pretty weird and disturbed from their long term use. Maybe there are levels to do it safely, like with alcohol. Maybe developing extracts for pain relief and other medicinal use will allow a safer way of utilising the benefits - which I do have faith in. But I don't think it should be legalised.

 

[Tiff]

I'm very on the fence about legal weed.

Someone in my life (those close to me will know, but for the public part of the forum I won't name them) has a card to smoke medicinal marijuana. Its medicine for her, but she smoked it long before she had the circumstances that warranted a prescription for it.

In her case, it was better pain management as her system doesn't react well with opiates so Codine/percocets/demerol were out of the picture.

So in that aspect, yeah its great. However, I see the results of her smoking ALL day EVERY day, and its not pretty. She doesn't smoke cigarettes but she's got the cough of someone who smokes a pack a day. She coughs up the nastiest stuff and have such violent coughing fits you cringe just listening to her.

I don't even want to know what its doing to her lungs. She's tried different things, even went to a specialist to see if they could allow her more for her prescriptions so she could bake with it and get the pain relief that way. I guess you need more if its being cooked? Anyhoo... yeah.

I personally believe its addictive. I've seen so many of my friends lives ruined with it, even had people come banging on my front door because my room mates had a debt with a dealer over weed too.

As for other stuff, I dunno. I think alcohol is a drug too, and I definitely think its addictive. I don't think it should be outlawed but I think the drinking age should be upped. I'm torn on it all, really. I do think a lot of problems would be erased if it was legalized, but is that really the answer?

Its like on the news today how Ontario how they legalized prostitution, citing the same thing. It'll be safer for the women on the streets if there's some sort of law protecting them. But really? That's the answer? We'll let women degrade themselves because hey, its their choice and it'll be just easier all around if it were legal?

I don't know where I sit on that one either... it was just something that came to mind when I read about how there would be less problems if weed were legalized.

 

[PeanutBean]

On a tangent tiff but on the prostitution thing I thing it should discouraged but legal for the individual woman but illegal for pimps and clients. I'm not actually sure but I think that's kind of the law here, or at least the practice or it.

I forgot to add that the vast majority of cannabis users smoke it with cigarette tobacco with no filter. A hundred times worse than just smoking cigarettes!

 

[Dopeyjopey]

Interesting debate. I certainly consider alcohol, tobacco etc as drugs and they certainly have a large detrimental effect on society as a whole and people's individual/family lives. Illegal drugs, well they can't all really be discussed as a group as the effects are many and varied. Whilst the revenue is important economically this could also be made on other drugs if that was really all that mattered. I think in the uk at least there is an awful lot of history surrounding our legal drugs, particularly alcohol. Binge drinking is no new thing.

You know all those stats about the differences in life expectancy and state of health between the different uk classes? It's almost all explained by smoking. I think it a very sad thing for our society that we can't do something about this. Despite how easily alcohol can wreck things, in a night, I'd rather see smoking banned to protect our people.

On cocaine, in my adult lifetime I have seen the change in tha drug's use all because of a drop in price. I think it's very concerning though I know a lot of people that have used it and been fine. I think I'm right in thinking it's non-addictive? Crack being a whole different story of course.

Hallucinogenic drugs, LSD and the likes seem to have Bern out of fashion for a while. Except mushrooms! Dunno how I feel about them except I certainly wouldn't want to use them. I value my brain's ability to understand the world around me!

And pot. Well I've smoked it. Was pretty unimpressed. And I agree with jasmak that whilst pot don't kill you as such it has many other ways or seriously impacting on a person's life. There was a mention of scientific evidence in a previous post - well there is a strong and growing body evidence on the long term, permanent, impact of pot on mental health. It's difficult to measure because it's nigh on impossible to gauge a person's use, especially given variation in individual batches and types. But the evidence grows nonetheless. I've known an awful lot of people of various ages who have smoked lot to varying degrees. I have to say that 99% of the time it's not pretty. I've lived in the world of the full time pothead. Wow it's boring. No brain activity there. I've seen older people, pretty weird and disturbed from their long term use. Maybe there are levels to do it safely, like with alcohol. Maybe developing extracts for pain relief and other medicinal use will allow a safer way of utilising the benefits - which I do have faith in. But I don't think it should be legalised.

I thought i'd be seeing you in here

With cocaine, i think it's incredibly expensive and has the same effect as drinking a few red bulls. I have seen people i would consider to be addicted to cocaine, but it could just be habitual - probably the act of snorting, as i've known of someone to snort pepper as there was no cocaine available!

LSD is hard to make and the ingredients are hard to get hold of so i believe ketamine has taken over as the hallucinagen (sp) of choice - although it's actually an anaesthetic. It's different in that the 'trip' is fabricated by the brain rather than a warped reality. Mushrooms can be found everywhere which is why they will always be popular. That's one thing i don't understand - if something grows in the wild, how can it be illegal to eat?? Recent laws have also made it near impossible to make the 'safer' illegal drugs so people are turning to legal highs which have very little research available. When the media gets hold of it, public uproar ensues and then it's onto the next new thing before that one gets made illegal. IMO that is what is most dangerous!

I agree weed can have bad effects mentally, but in my opinion those people would have been prone to it anyway and it is triggered by smoking. Also,people prone to mental illness are more likely to self medicate which is why, in my opinion, the percentage is higher.

I hope that all makes sense, i hate using my phone!

 

[Dopeyjopey]

Oooops - meant to point out that physically cocaine does awful things to your heart and ketamine causes severe stomach cramps so are rightly illegal

 

[PeanutBean]

Come is definitely cheaper. Think how on the '80s it was the drug of choice for the wealthy yuppy, these days every teen seems to be as to afford it. DH has taken a wide variety of drugs, before we met (actually was on e the night we met ). He says come is well cheap now.

I don't think consuming mushrooms is illegal, only selling them.

I disagree that most people use pot for medicinal purpose or are already prone to mental health issues. The very high number of users would rule out a significance in the levels on mental illness I think.

DH is here chatting about it. Says he has never known a single person taking pot for medication and seriously where he grew up he knew an awful lot of people and they almost all the people he knew smoked pot. He also knows a number of people who have been institutionlised having been tipped over with cannabis use. He's still quite relaxed about pot, were it not for Byron (and me!) says he might smoke occasionally so he's certainly not prejudiced about it.

 

[PeanutBean]

Sorry about typos and random words, also on my phone!

 

[Dopeyjopey]

Whenever i've taken drugs (illegal ones) it has been a form of self medicating for my bipolar. Weed to get me through insomnia, stimulants to get me in the mood to go out when i've had no energy and entheogens to escape reality. Thankfully i don't feel the need to do any of it anymore, but at least when i did i knew exactly what i was doing. If someone gets ill from alcohol, most people know what to do - make them be sick, drink water etc. The illegality of other things means that people go into it blindly and that worries me. For that reason I think legalising is better than criminalising in some cases.