just dont understand.....

[J22]

Just stick at it hun, you're obviously determined to make bf work. As all the other ladies have said, anything's normal with a newborn and it really does feel like you feed continuously day and night. Growth spurts are also non-stop and last 2-3 days. It does get better and easier (I was told this but couldn't see light at the end of the tunnel at the start). I struggled like crazy at the beginning and had some people tell me to start ff or atleast introduce some bottles but I was determined to make it through to tough start. I've now been going 6 months. Good luck xx

 

[pcsoph2890]

I tried today but with this ductal thrush I have plus sore nipples again did a mixture of ff, bf and expressed, so I am still feeding her just not at the boob. Seems to work for me this way at the minute. I love feeding her first thing in the morning then once during evening and once during the night, the rest are ff and what I have expressed.... So I'm kinda thinking best of all worlds.
I just do not think that I can ebf - so this is the next best thing for me...... Will keep trying but I'm not going to cut myself up if I can't do it.... least she'll be a month on Wednesday and still giving her the boob and expressed milk too.... something is better than none!!

 

[counting]

Babies nurse almost 24/7 at that age. Literally my son spent day and night attached to my breast. I used to joke I "finished" netflix in the first 6 weeks of his life as I was stuck on the couch nursing him and watching netflix, lol.

Honestly, and this may sound blunt, if you want to continue breastfeeding you need to just let her do her thing. After the 3rd/4th week her feeds may space back out, and then at around 6 weeks, you will be in for it again. After that it is smooth sailing!

If you continue to feed from a bottle, especially formula, she will possibly refuse the breast and most likely you will loose supply.

Ductal thrush needs to be treated asap. It will not go away on it's own, and it can/will spread to your baby and cause her a lot of pain. It's a go to the doctor right now kind of situation. Also, once treated it will be gone in days, and after about 1.5/2 days you will feel about 80% better. If it isn't ductal thrush, you need to have her latch assessed. I've had ductal thrush. Twice. It hurt a lot, and pumping would have felt like madness on it, much worse than a baby breastfeeding. Which makes me think that it may be a latch issue. The other possibility for pain in the breast tissue is a blocked duct, and the best treatment for that is putting babe to the breast.

Having thrush and having a baby cluster feed is no indication that you can't breastfeed exclusively. Thrush is super common, especially if you had ab's during or after labour. It's painful, but also easily treated and usually doesn't return if medication is properly used. Cluster feeding is how a baby signals to your body to produce enough milk. If she isn't latched on, your body doesn't know to produce more.

I'm glad your baby is getting at least some breast milk, and you should be proud of that Momma. I just want to make sure you have all the information before you make any kind of decision that could harm your breastfeeding relationship. It is a whole lot easier to quit breastfeeding if you change your mind later on, than to try and reestablish breastfeeding after you have lost your milk and have a baby who has nipple confusion. Not that any of that will necessarily happen to you! If you have all the information and suggestions and you choose to combi feed or formula feed, that is your choice too! But I don't want you to believe you can't breastfeed because of a bout of thrush or because babe nurses frequently, because you totally can. I did it, made it through 2 bouts of ductal thrush, 2 bouts of mastitis, blocked ducts and a baby who would nurse for hours straight without stopping. Mommas are brilliant and resilient. Now at 8 months old I'm glad I breastfeed my son- no bottles to clean and sterilize or formula to mix, always available, anywhere, anytime at the perfect temperature with no sterilization required.

If you'd like some support about how to manage with thrush and a frequent nurser I'd be happy to help if you PM me!

 

[pcsoph2890]

And now to top.it off -was having quite an enjoyable bf session, not sore but she never seemed go wAnt to stop. I had go go to the loo so I handed her over to hubby. He then gave her the remainder of the bottle of ff about 2floz.
So then he started going on that she obviously did not get anything from the bf I gave her (which I totally disagree with as milk was flowing out of me) so I was happy to carry on and change over to the other boob).
I told him that she was cluster feeding etc but obviously he knows best and he's stating that I should be expressing (on a good day I get about 4floz) I told her that she had the bottle this morning and polished it all off. As I have been out all day I have not expressed but given the boob to her and topped off with a little ff.
He seems to think that her not settling and just wanting more food is my fault for trying to bf her and that I'm selfish for wanting to do it for.myself and I'm not feeding her properly.

Now I know he's talking a load of bs and I'm happy that she is getting enough as I can see th milk coming out of me and I'm going to carry on regardless of what he says during this day when he is at work.

 

[Emz1982_in_uk]

Did you get your thrush sorted? I had thrush and it's horrible but daktarin cleared mine up.

 

[supertabby]

The other ladies have offered all the same advice I'd give.

Re your oh - I'd get an appointment with a lactation consultant (see if your hospital has one, at ours one of the senior midwives is also a LC) or if not then go to a breastfeeding peer support group (think all areaa have them via nhs). Let him hear the advice direct for himself so he can understand it is not your supply snd that babies just feed feed feed feed feed feed feed.

 

[pcsoph2890]

Going to the drs on Wednesday .... the earliest they had a slot!!

 

[J22]

I think it's really really important that you either make your oh read up on bf or even better, get him to go with you to see a mw or hv or whoever can talk him through it. It's vital you have his support. I know it's not easy to understand bf sometimes but it would be such a shame to feel you have to start ff because he's saying your baby isn't getting enough. You're doing great, but beware of going down the route of ff and bf as it may work for some but there's also the risk of your baby refusing breast. Take any professional support you can get your hands on hun xxx

 

[pcsoph2890]

I've seen a lc (with hubby) bf support worker (twice once with once without hubby). I go to a bf support group too on Thursdays where there is a bf support worker there too...
He is just a stubborn so and so at times whose opinion is the only one that matters. Everyone else is wrong and he is right..... So I just sit there nod and think "you sod you are so wrong" it you just can't argue with him!!

 

[J22]

I've seen a lc (with hubby) bf support worker (twice once with once without hubby). I go to a bf support group too on Thursdays where there is a bf support worker there too...
He is just a stubborn so and so at times whose opinion is the only one that matters. Everyone else is wrong and he is right..... So I just sit there nod and think "you sod you are so wrong" it you just can't argue with him!!

Omg your DH is so so wrong and I so wish he'd listen and support you, grrrr!!. If he continues the way he is then I fear you'll basically end up ff when you wanted to bf all along. There are so many benefits to bf (as you know) and by telling you to top up with formula just goes against trying to establish feeding. Sorry to be blunt but he needs to shut up and listen or educate himself on it, including the benefits of bf and how it's vital he supports you. He needs to realise what it entails (including growth spurts, feeding on demand, and everything else that goes along with it). I really do hope you can find a way to make him realise that he's not playing the role you need him to do by doing what he's doing xx

 

[Rachel_C]

This is probably going to sound horribly sexist and I'm sure there are men who aren't like this, but I think men often look for an easy solution. If he sees you struggling or tired or doubting yourself, formula can seem like an easy fix especially if he hasn't read enough about BF to really understand the difference. To him, milk is probably just milk and the only difference is how he thinks it makes you feel - he won't understand the very physical desire to feed your baby and he'll see the desire to BF as stressing you out for no reason.

I would personally get rid of the formula from the house or at the very least do NOT leave formula lying around made up. I'm not meaning to be nit-picking, but if you were BF LO, why was there a bottle of formula lying around? You shouldn't leave it out and reuse it... I know the official 'rules' are that you should discard a bottle after an hour (or is it two?) but for such a young baby I wouldn't keep them for that long. And having a bottle around while you're BF is only going to undermine what you're trying to do - it makes it so very easy for OH to give LO a bottle (and you too). At least if OH has to go to the kitchen, boil the water, leave it to cool, measure it all out etc he sees that formula is not actually that easy or quick and he'll only use it when there's an actual need (which there probably won't be). Don't make it easy for him to short change you and your baby

 

[pcsoph2890]

Rachel, he keeps saying I'm stressed, but the more he says I'm stressing (when actually I am quite chilled the more it annoys me.
Today from midnight I bf twice once at 2am ish and another at 4am ish, she seemed to drop off reasonably ok.
Then a mammoth feed at 8am for about 2hrs, which I thought had satisfied her - but she was rooting for more food about 20 mins later. By which point my nipples were getting quite painful.
Then I have expressed roughly every 2hrs (got about 1floz so far which is a pityful pittance).... But persevering for the next few days to get my supply up - as I seriously think that I have never been engorged, feel full or even feel "empty" after a long feel that I just don't have the supply to feed her enough. Neither e I ever really leaked too. But when I squeeze my nipples I get squirts and dribbles from it, so there is milk there - but possibly just not a lot.
So taking fenugreek about 12 tablets a day. I have been recommended "more milk plus" too which increases bm production, so hopeful if I am producing a lot I can satisfy her more.

I know they say each woman produces enough for her baby, but to feed for such a long time and it just not satisfy her not even once makes me think that I have never had the supply there.

I have reached 1 month milestone of bf (of sorts) and want to get to month 2, so taking it in itty bitty steps. Hopefully I'll crack it as really enjoyed bf her this morning before I got sore again.....

 

[counting]

Giving the bottles will have made your supply drop to the point you may have supply issues. Adding blessed thistle 9-12 capsules a day will help alongside the fenugreek. Also nursing for as long as she wants, then pumping, feed what you have pumped, then if still hungry an oz or two of formula.

I'd also recommend trying to cut out the bottles entirely. Using a supplemental nursing system is ideal, you can even make one at home using a bottle and a feeding tube- You can get clean feeding tubes from a doctor, nurse or lactation consultant. That way as she gets her supplement, she is still signalling to your breasts to produce more.

It may also be when she has a mammoth feed for 2 hours, that she is satisfied hunger wise, but wants to comfort suck. This is normal and totally ok.

Also not ever feeling engorged and leaking, or being able to feel noticeably empty is completely 100% normal. I was never engorged, and never leaked. It depends on the mother. Some mothers have a very active let down reflex, and leak a lot. Some moms only get a let down from nursing. I was one of those lucky moms, you may be too. In terms of engorgement, that normally happens when baby is changing a feeding pattern, you have missed entirely 1 or more feeds/pumping sessions or you have too much supply.

Keep at it Mama, you are doing great! Happy 1 month breastfeeding milestone!

 

[counting]

Pumping tips:

Nurse first, pump afterwards. You may get less milk pumped this way but ensured LO gets all the goodness from the breast first and it will bring up your supply quickly.

Always pump for 5 minutes after the last drop of milk is expressed.

Putting LO on one side and pump the other. You will get way more milk this way.

Remember, babies are much better at getting out milk than pumps. So the 1oz is no indication of supply. Also remember stimulation from baby nursing is the best way to bring supply back up.

Nursing between 1am and 4am is the best time to increase supply, as your prolactin levels are the highest, which results in more milk. So your girl was smart to nurse then.

Try breast compression when you nurse your LO. This will help her get more milk. You can also do these while pumping to increase output.

You might also want to contact Jack Newman through his website. He gives fabulous advice when it comes to breastfeeding and is a total wealth of knowledge.

Here is a link to some resources that will help you to see if baby is getting milk when she is nursing. Videos are fabulous. Watch the ones on "good eating" "very good eating" and nibbling. That way you can show your DH proof that she is getting milk at the breast:
https://www.nbci.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=6&Itemid=13

 

[ready4family]

Growth spurt!! Totally normal for her to want to eat all the time, by doing this she is increasing your supply. Don't give a bottle; it's supply and demand. The more demand the more your supply will increase. Have faith that your body is doing what God intended it to do. Park yourself on the couch with a good book or movie and a big bottle of water and let her eat as long as she wants

 

[pcsoph2890]

Wow those videos are excellent.... she has periods of good eating, then quite a lot of nibbling, which is possibly why she is never satisfied even after hours on the boob.
As I have large boobs I have to hold the boob to ensure she has a Good latch and holding her in the correct position, I struggle to stimulate her to keep her feeding well.
Last night though I let her do the rooting for the boob and she found it and with a little help.latched on whilst I was laying on my back, and then when I was on my side she latched on too.... was a bit more relaxed than sitting up and manoeuvring boob and position and baby....

I'm at my breast feeding group tmrw so will get tips on getting her feeding more efficiently which should reduce the time she feeds and gets more food. I know you tickle her but trying to do that with no free arms/hands will take some doing.

Yes I probably have reduced my milk cause of ff. But will continue express tonight, should get a bit more out of me and then boob feed her throughout the night. Hopefully my nipples will bear up.
But I loved feeding her and do love feeding her but just never seem to get her full enough....
But I will get there ...... after all this time, pain and learning really want to be able to ebf.... I'm fed up of ff - I want to do it for her!!

She cannot go on with these 2hr feeds as my nipples get so sore by the end, and it puts me back to square one again.....

 

[ready4family]

Nobody said it would be easy. Get past this tough time and you will have ZERO regrets!! I LOVE breastfeeding now and I think every woman that has breastfed will agree!

 

[counting]

Breast compression! As soon as her drinking gets to the "nibbling" phase do breast compression! It can also help keep her awake and alert on breast. Once she starts to change her sucking pattern from "good drinking" switch to the other side.

Here is how you do it:
https://www.nbci.ca/index.php?option=com_content&id=8:breast-compression&Itemid=17

Also, also may sound odd, but if you can(if your DH thinks it is odd, you are out a lot of have little privacy doing it over night is still effective) breastfeed with no shirt or bra on so that she is against your skin. This helps with bringing milk in to.

You can do it Mama. Breastfeeding is harder in the beginning, with cluster feeding and things like that, but in the long run breastfeeding is much easier than FF. No mixing formula, no washing bottles, heating bottles. It is there, always at the right time, the right temperature without any need to sterilize. Feedings will space out. Once a baby gets good at breastfeeding and your supply is regulated a 3-8 minute breastfeeding session every 4 hours or so is not unheard of. But you need to have the supply to do that! Sometimes my son will nurse up to 25 minutes straight, not often usually when I get home from work or before bed, but I can tell by his sucks that he satisfied his hunger in the first 3-8 minutes and just wants the closeness and comfort of nursing.

You can do this. I really do think that the issue here is not you or your body, but a lack of support at home. Maybe you can share some of the links with your OH?

 

[pcsoph2890]

This info is just what I needed..... it will help me no end just knowing whether she is drinking or nibbling. Also compression too to get more milk to her. I know she can get a lot more out of me than pumping can do...
Feel quite positive about tonight now...

Hubby is very supportive don't get me wrong - he is just concerned that she is feeding fir these long periods of time and still hungry afterwards which is upsetting me that I can't feed her, which he obviously picks up on, and he just wants her to be fed and happy.

Just need her to feed more efficiently and I think once we have mastered that we "might" just have cracked it!!!! (Unless another thing happens to make us wobble again!!)

 

[pcsoph2890]

OMFG...... Just feed her, compressed as per the link you gave me and she fed for about 15 mins s and now she is flat out. She has never been flat out before she has always cried after 2hrs of being latched on....... gonna see how it goes throughout night before I really tempt fate but..........