Made to cry over formula :(

[midori1999]

Having a baby is tiring in the beginning, regardless of how you feed them.

 

[Chelsea.ann1]

I just know that personally, once I switched to formula at least half formula, I got much more sleep.. formula fills tummys longer, others can help, etc. etc.

but true, either way you'll be tired.

i just don't agree with the statement it's inaccurate to say that breastfeeding is tiring.

 

[summer rain]

My second eldest never had a drop of any type formula until he was a year old (severe dairy allergy); but he'd sleep up to 12 hours at night and for long stretches during the day from birth-he never lost an oz and had gained several ounces by a few days old so was just an efficient feeder. Studies do show that there is no real difference between BF and FF babies in the age that they sleep for longer periods, and there was one recent study that showed that BF mums who gave formula at night believing it would help their baby to sleep through; often had poorer sleep than the mums who kept EBF and this had the knock on effect of potentially contributing to PND/A etc xx

 

[summer rain]

It was a decision that you and your OH made so stick to it, you are the parents and no-one elses opinion is needed.

I combi feed, breastfeeding is so hard and tiring and as I understand it low iron makes you tired - so the two combined will be very hard! I am fit and healthy and I found it very very draining! If you are low on iron as well the quality of milk might not be as good - so breastfeeding isnt always best!!

Also I just want to add - I do both and i dont feel any extra bond breastfeeding then bottle feeding - if anything I enjoy bottlefeeding more as its not painful and more relaxing!

Just a tip dont stock up too much on formula as your LO might not get on with the one youve chosen - Ive already swapped twice!

Low iron does not affect the quality of the milk, it may in rare cases affect milk supply but not milk quality, fat content etc. The amounts of iron found in breastmilk are small but very easily absorbed and even very anaemic women have more than ample amounts of iron in their milk; that said most healthy full term babies will have decent iron stores to last them until at least 6 months anyway xx

 

[Chelsea.ann1]

I'd like to see these studies.. Formula is harder for babies to digest, therefore they feel fuller a bit longer.

My daughter nursed constantly until I turned her to formula (many different reasons).

Your case is great, however definitely not the norm for most.

A friend of mine also has been stressing hard because she just had her daughter, Brooke, and she was up constantly trying to nurse.. she was so sleep deprived she was crying, she talked to her dr. and gave formula a go. She now fits naps in.

Not saying formulas better IT'S NOT. But it IS harder to digest, so it DOES take longer to process.

edit - i do see how bf moms who gave formula at night would get poorer sleep as it's probably hard on baby's tummy to go from the gentleness of breastmilk to the seemingly harsh formula. xxxx

 

[Chelsea.ann1]

For the record this is not to start a debate.

From experience and from everything I've heard personally, breastfeeding is ALOT harder than formula feeding.. Takes alot at first which in turn is more tiring, just the fact that in the beginning your solo feeding and trying to settle in a routine without oh or mom there to take over a feeding for you makes it alot harder, alot more tiring.

That being said, it's worth it.
And from what I hear it gets easier.
Everything truly worth it takes some hard work, as goes for anything.

I respect breastfeeding mothers.

I know one of the reasons I gave up is cause of how tiring it was for me. That on top of reflux and severe cow milk and soy allergies (i didn't know anything about the 2 when i quit, she simply seemed to take formula better and i felt alot less stressed/guilty)

that's why i simply disagree with her when she stated it's "inaccurate" to say breastfeeding is tiring.

When to most, at first, it is.
and yes, slightly more so than ff baby's from birth.

 

[summer rain]

I am someone prone to depression and bad effects from sleep deprivation; and BF would be virtually impossible for me if it was as bad as people think regarding lack of sleep. I found BF helped me get enough rest and sleep more easily in the early days than people I know who were FF because BF creates sleep hormones in both mum and baby, FF does not do this. I can safely say by the time my baby was 10 days old I had completely caught up on all the sleep lost not only in the early days but also from sleeping poorly at the end of pregnancy, and I had caught up on a significant amount of sleep by the time he was 72 hours old. There is a study mentioned here that suggests that FF babies sleep worse at night than BF babies due to no 'sleep hormones' in FM, consequently formula companies have even looked into adding these hormones into formula milk

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17908-evening-breast-milk-means-a-good-sleep.html

Its from New Scientist magazine so is pretty legit. Babies in OH families are almost always completely FF from birth and they have all had problems sleeping at night, being harder to digest can backfire in some cases especially in a baby with reflux or other digestive issues. xx

ETA: and its interesting you mention that BF mums are tired partly because they are 'lone' feeding whereas with FF mum has OH or her mum to help with feeds; studies have also found that FF mums very often do not end up with others helping with feeds once the initial novelty wears off, and they are literally left 'holding the baby'

 

[summer rain]

And here is another study showing that BF mums get just as much rest as FF mums (this is from Time magazine)

https://healthland.time.com/2010/11/08/breast-feed-or-formula-feed-in-terms-of-sleep-its-a-wash/

a more in depth explanation of what I believe to be the same study

https://seattlemamadoc.seattlechildrens.org/breast-feeding-vs-formula-mommy-sleep/

 

[bubbles123]

some babies sleep and some don't. Some will wake at every noise, some will sleep through anything. Which one you get is up to fate. You can BF or FF but if you have a terrible sleeper you are still screwed! And OP yes the BF guilt is awful but it does pass. By the time you have a healthy, thriving toddler (which you will, whether you BF or FF) you will not have time to even worry about how they were fed as a baby. You will be too busy trying to get them to eat their solid food (or to eat anything other than breadsticks in my sons case!). Please ignore anyone who criticises you. They are stupid and cruel.

 

[summer rain]

BTW I am not anti-FF in the slightest; I have FF myself and my sig used to say that but it wouldn't let me keep that in my sig when I added my weight loss ticker, and it is wrong for people to criticise a mum who chooses to FF but many women do choose to FF based on myths and wrong advice from so-called medical professionals, and regret this later when they do research and get correct information. I would not wish this on anyone. A lot of MWs are not trained in BF support just know how to hand out a DVD and leaflet, and I have found a lot of them believe old wives tales about BF which have long since been disproven by numerous studies xx

 

[vintage67]

You are not helping.

You may think you are helping.

You are not.

There are those of us that had "support", "knowledge", "lactation consultants","dual electric pumps," "fenugreek", etc., and were UNABLE to BF our children.

That was me first pregnancy.

This time, a lengthy hospitalization, 3 CT scans and drugs I could not expose a newborn to.

No one cares about a study when they are dealing with depression and guilt over not being able to breastfeed their child.

This is the formula feeding forum. We don't come here to be lectured about breastfeeding.

I do not mean to sound harsh. I drove to the river in the city I live in 7 years ago and contemplated driving my car into it over not being able to breastfeed my son. Women on the internet tipped me into suicidal thoughts.
On a so-called breastfeeding support website, the forums were full of such sage advice as "formula causes cancer", "it's rat poison in a can", "your child will be sickly, get cancer and have a low IQ", and such statements as, "I could never be friends with a "bottle feeder." I was shunned in real life by
breastfeeding mothers. I BOTTLE FED in public restrooms because I was afraid of beign accosted.

Breastfeeding pressure is intense, and though well meaning, I am not the only woman who has experienced this. I know that therapists see a lot of women who have to be counseled over this. I had to get counseling.

I thought the formula feeding forum was "safe," but I don't think I'll be back in here anymore either.

 

[summer rain]

I was merely rebutting common BF myths about iron and BF mums getting less sleep.

No-one is 'lecturing' about BF but it does seem on this forum it is fine to peddle myths about BF and if anyone responds with scientific evidence (even if it has been asked for!), even those who have either had to or chose to FF in the past such as myself and Midori (and I had to FF one of my kids for medical reasons so I am afraid you don't know my history) they are shot down in flames and accused of pressuring women and calling formula poison! No-one called formula anything on this thread let alone poison; just said if OP really wants to BF then she can do so safely despite the misinformation given to her by a medical professional, which is what it is.

All I and Midori did was post evidence that the myth that all babies sleep better with formula and BF is more tiring in the early days and also that low iron makes for less good quality milk; is not true, mainly in response to such evidence being asked for. Perhaps I should have PMed the studies to those who asked for them. There are many false statements made about BF on here and baby club and I ignore 99.9% of them as to be honest I don't want women who gave up based on false information to feel bad for something that isn't their fault not to mention all the nasty posts that we get for merely responding to a QUESTION. FF ladies do not get this when they come into the BF section and post on threads there. I don't see how this is lecturing on BF merely responding to another poster asking for something-could you please explain how it is? BTW I have actually lost many friends and am pretty much blanked by my entire OHs family for BF and I've been told by medical professionals that I am starving/killing my kids for BF in the past-even though they were perfectly healthy-for example I was told to top up with formula with my youngest even though he was gaining 10oz+ a week- because I surely didn't want to starve/dehydrate him, the paediatrician believed that a BF baby could never be healthy. Not to mention having nasty remarks and looks when NIP. So I'm afraid the pressure works BOTH ways.

I have also had to seek counselling because of bad experiences with my eldest and some of that did revolve around him being given formula against my wishes and even against hospital policy. You don't know me and you have NO idea about me or my kids or how my feeding experiences have been; most posters on this section will tell you I give very helpful advice on both BF AND FF if they have been on this forum for a bit longer than yourself-with all due respect but in future I will think twice before posting on this section again. I have already had to severely curtail posting in the weaning section because I merely posted the government guidelines on weaning age and how to safely give solids and boy was I made to feel I was doing something terribly wrong.

Finally edited to add: I have several friends who successfully BF with extremely low iron levels (one of them due to a form of anaemia she was born with and consequently could never get her iron levels above a 6 or 7) but I won't share their stories here because I will be accused of all sorts-however OP if you want to hear them you can feel free to PM me.

 

[oblada18]

I think it is important that people make informed decision as much as possible; better find out now and make a proper decision than find it out later, when it is too late and dealing with even more guilt and regret!
Everybody should make a decision about bf or ff based on (as much as possible) true facts and on how they feel. Yes pressure may be harsh sometimes (both ways and it varies with time and place I am afraid) but women have to learn to deal with it, there is no two ways about it, life is not always easy but surely it is easier to deal with the pressure if the woman truly knows why she has made the decision she reached and that is really what we should all aim for, for our sake's and our children's sake.

Personally I think bf is very tiring physically (it uses up a lot of energy) but I think I would find ff much more draining mentally and emotionally as I find it so much easier to settle my girl with the breast, I get very little crying as there is barely any waiting time, I sleep pretty well due to bf and co-sleeping (I do NOT do well with sleep deprivation!)...

Anyway to get back to the point don't beat yourself up if you feel that is the right decision, there is good formula out there and there is so much you will do for your baby in the years to come, this is just about feeding in the first few months, there is a lot more to come and to enjoy with your child

 

[midori1999]

You are not helping.

You may think you are helping.

You are not.

There are those of us that had "support", "knowledge", "lactation consultants","dual electric pumps," "fenugreek", etc., and were UNABLE to BF our children.

That was me first pregnancy.

This time, a lengthy hospitalization, 3 CT scans and drugs I could not expose a newborn to.

No one cares about a study when they are dealing with depression and guilt over not being able to breastfeed their child.

This is the formula feeding forum. We don't come here to be lectured about breastfeeding.

I do not mean to sound harsh. I drove to the river in the city I live in 7 years ago and contemplated driving my car into it over not being able to breastfeed my son. Women on the internet tipped me into suicidal thoughts.
On a so-called breastfeeding support website, the forums were full of such sage advice as "formula causes cancer", "it's rat poison in a can", "your child will be sickly, get cancer and have a low IQ", and such statements as, "I could never be friends with a "bottle feeder." I was shunned in real life by
breastfeeding mothers. I BOTTLE FED in public restrooms because I was afraid of beign accosted.

Breastfeeding pressure is intense, and though well meaning, I am not the only woman who has experienced this. I know that therapists see a lot of women who have to be counseled over this. I had to get counseling.

I thought the formula feeding forum was "safe," but I don't think I'll be back in here anymore either.

I am sorry to hear about your experiences, that sounds incredibly difficult for you and it is absolutely awful that you were made to feel that way.

However, it is completely possible to be pro BF without being anti FF, they are not the same thing. I don't think anyone here has 'lectured' on BF?

As to whether the advice is/may be helping... Had the OP come on and said 'I am not BF' after her baby had been born, as opposed to saying 'I have decided not to', prior to her baby being born, as she has done, then yes, I'd agree. It is not helpful in the least to tell a woman information she has been given that suggests she shouldn't BF is wrong once she has already had her baby and not BF. However, for all we know, the OP may well want to BF if gets the correct information about and surely it's better for her to have the correct information now than once BF is no longer an option?

Of course, regardless of having the correct information, the OP may still wish to FF and if she does, I seriously doubt anyone here is going to berate her for that, it is her choice entirely.

FWIW, I didn't continue to BF three of my children due to incorrect information and lack of support and I wish to goodness someone had given me the right information beforehand. (I have also had PND and ended up hospitalised because of it, so that isn't something I take lightly either)

 

[vintage67]

Summer Rain, it is a complete and TOTAL FALSEHOOD THAT i CAME INTO THE BF SECTION AND SAID THAT! Here is the entire post that you are talking about. NOWHERE DID I SAY THAT SHE WOULD HAVE TO SWITCH TO FORMULA.

*With my first son, I had GD and I was very shocked at how bad his blood sugars were after birth. My case is on the extreme side, but it CAN happen.
My blood sugars were not that bad really, but the week before his birth, they did spike. When my son was born, his blood sugars were very low. He sank all the way to an 18; for a point of reference, a baby should be around 40, and can go into a coma at 15. Colostrum was not going to bring a baby up from 18 to a normal range.

With my second baby, (I am now a Type 2 diabetic) he had blood sugar issues as well, though not as severe.

You can cup or syringe feed to bring blood sugars up in an infant. It is very scary when their lips are trembling and they are near a coma. Supplemental feeding is life saving in those instances.

As far as GD/diabetes, I did have problems with breastfeeding, which I won't go into here. Diabetic women do often have issues breastfeeding. Lactation consultants that have a lot of experience with diabetic mothers will confirm this. Impossible? No, but each individual situation is different.

Your baby may or may not have blood sugar issues after birth. There is a lot of variance. Since they know you have GD, they will monitor him. Sad seeing the little bandage on the heel from the pokes, but it is necessary*

 

[kaths101]

Hi Girls, Im sorry I got some of my facts wrong, about low iron affecting the milk etc..I shouldnt type what I dont know about - its just what I thought. I apologise

Breastfeeding doesn't hurt me now but it was very painful in the beginning and I almost gave up! I also found it very very tiring, Jack fed every hour to 2 hours and no-one else could help, he would eat little and often and would sick up a lot too. He also had colic and it was sooo draining, I couldnt even go and lay down for a few hours and let OH look after Jack because he was on the boob all the time!
Just how I felt!!

 

[bananabump]

I hated BF, worst decision I ever made to even try it. SOOO glad I'm FF now! I'm sorry your MIL is putting you down, I think the pros to FF much outweigh the pros to BF and so do a lot of other women too! And do you know now if any of your friends/family were BF or FF? I know I don't and that's because it reeeeally doesn't matter either way! Chin up and please don't let your MIL or any other stupid people upset you x x x

 

[midori1999]

I honestly think the only way I'd find BF tiring is if I was doing it on a treadmill... Or, maybe if I didn't have the support of my wonderful husband. For me, breastfeeding went like this:

Me: lay in bed/sit in bed/sit on the sofa, eating chocolate, watching box set DVDs, eating chocolate, chat to friends/family, eat chocolate, and feed the baby. Eat some more chocolate...

Husband: wind baby after feeds, change nappies, cuddle baby in between feeds so I could sleep, make dinner, amuse the other (3) children, bring me snacks, bring me drinks, do housework, walk and care for our dogs... etc etc

Ok, so maybe that's a slight exaggeration, but it wasn't much different than that. I quickly learnt to feed laying down too, so I could rest/nap whilst feeding. So yes, not BF might mean you spend less time feeding the baby, but it probably means you'll spend a lot of time doing other things that are tiring. I mean, housework?!

Of course, everyone is different and I am not in any way discounting any else's personal experience, but I am really very seriously lazy and I always take the easy option.

Studies have shown on average a BF Mother gets around 20 mins extra sleep a night, that's quite a lot extra when you're exhausted!

 

[summer rain]

Summer Rain, it is a complete and TOTAL FALSEHOOD THAT i CAME INTO THE BF SECTION AND SAID THAT! Here is the entire post that you are talking about. NOWHERE DID I SAY THAT SHE WOULD HAVE TO SWITCH TO FORMULA.

*With my first son, I had GD and I was very shocked at how bad his blood sugars were after birth. My case is on the extreme side, but it CAN happen.
My blood sugars were not that bad really, but the week before his birth, they did spike. When my son was born, his blood sugars were very low. He sank all the way to an 18; for a point of reference, a baby should be around 40, and can go into a coma at 15. Colostrum was not going to bring a baby up from 18 to a normal range.

With my second baby, (I am now a Type 2 diabetic) he had blood sugar issues as well, though not as severe.

You can cup or syringe feed to bring blood sugars up in an infant. It is very scary when their lips are trembling and they are near a coma. Supplemental feeding is life saving in those instances.

As far as GD/diabetes, I did have problems with breastfeeding, which I won't go into here. Diabetic women do often have issues breastfeeding. Lactation consultants that have a lot of experience with diabetic mothers will confirm this. Impossible? No, but each individual situation is different.

Your baby may or may not have blood sugar issues after birth. There is a lot of variance. Since they know you have GD, they will monitor him. Sad seeing the little bandage on the heel from the pokes, but it is necessary*

I am sorry I misread your original post just quoted and I hold my hands up, I made a genuine mistake. However you have said a lot of harsh, nasty and unjust things here that you have not apologised for nor have you explained how offering correct information on BF is 'pressuring' or 'lecturing on BF'?

 

[summer rain]

I have just been looking into iron deficiency anaemia and whether it is safe to BF with iron-deficiency anaemia because I had to be sure what I was saying is correct and backed up by evidence, the consensus seems to be that in many cases BF can help to level out low iron levels and help them to recover somewhat because most BF women do not have periods for several months after the birth and those that FF tend to have their period return in the first two months-the iron that is given over to milk production and comes through in milk is less than what is lost from bleeding through periods

https://www.llli.org/nb/nbjulaug01p124.html

Its in the physiologic effects of breastfeeding bit. xx