Moving onto adoption after LTTTC

[MissAma]

Well it does last that, it lasts longer even. The length of the process should not be seen as the length of time invested by the authority to process papers, but the length of time that the couple have to wait till they have a baby in their hands. It doesn't last a year, it lasts far more, for some people it emotionally starts when they first find out they are infertile. That's why, IMO adding an arbitrary 6 months on top of it is cruel.

Years ago I was asked to counsel on several couples' eligibility and that was a throughout examination, no reason why that can't be done earlier in the process and allow for ample assessment of grief and emotional availability.

No worries, this is not directed at you but at the system.

Bekic, are you posting to update us about the process babe?

 

[Beckic]

When I went to the adoption open evening for Herts I was told that basically they come out to speak to you once they get your initial application form - and they talk to you about the IVF / whether you are ready etc.. and they make a decision then - and will either ask you to wait a further 6 months if they don't think you are ready or they proceed immediately.
They said they are quite pragmatic about it - and therefore if they feel you are ready they will get you on the road - but if not will reassess in 6 months - and I suppose could ask you to wait further after that.
So i dont think there is a set time restriction in my local authority - and TBH because there is about an 8 month waiting list to get onto the initial adoption information course - i suppose you will have waited long enough already!

AS it is - I just cant beleve that anyone fully gives up the idea of ever conceiving naturally.
I am 100% ready to go down the adoption route purely because I am so desperate to be a Mum and I see this as my only guaranteed way of achieving this and I want to get the ball rolling on this as soon as possible - but whislt I am not having treatment from the Dr anymore - it doesn't mean that I still don't monitor my cycles and drag DH into bed when I think I'm ovulating - or occasionally google 'soy insoflavones' ect...
No matter the length of time I am asked to wait I just dont see how I will ever fully be able to stop TTC naturally even whislt we are going through the adoptin process (althoguh we have to tell them we are using precautions) - because I just want a baby, whether its my own or adopted - I just want it ASAP.

But DH has now decided he isnt quite ready anyway - so we arent putting in our adoption applicaiton form until January now - so it will have been over 6 months - but TBH - I think a month agao I was so excited about moving onto adoption and felt so great and positive about life - but since then with DH now increasing waiting time til 2011 I actually feel depresed and miserable and down again - so actually I would have been in a better frame of mind to apply before!
the waiting is agony and the only thing that is going to put an end to the grief is new hope and a new journey - 6 months isn't going to make anything better - just add to the pain.....

B x

 

[CareBear]

Beckic - I'm sorry OH wants to wait before putting in your application and making the waiting time longer, can I suggest something to try and put a positive spin on it? I don't know anything about your background or anything but when you have your initial visit you will be asked to gain experience of working with children like volunteering in a nursery or a prison creche or something and one of the references requested will be from the place you volunteer at. Might be worth looking at doing something like that so you will have loads of experience by the time you get to panel for your approval and would be seen as a real positive. Might help pass the time quicker as well and feel like you are working towards your goal in a little way. Just an idea and I hope you don't mind me mentioning it. Good luck for when you submit your application. Hope you found the evening interesting as well. Another positive I can give, I don't know if its like this in your area but in mine we are crying out for adopters and have a lot more children available than we do adopters therefore once you are approved it might not be such a long wait until you are matched with a child. Hope that gives a small comfort although I know it is a long process and you have my sympathies with this.

 

[MissAma]

CareBear that's a brilliant suggestion and such a constructive post!

 

[Dinoslass]

I can not understand the waiting time myself, but I know over here they also say that some countries expect you to now be trying for a biological child. We came into adoption another way, so it is all a bit strange for me. See, we did actually meet a child we wanted to adopt, so if we had to wait for anything it would have just meant her staying in an orphanage longer than necesary.
I have always wanted both biological and adoptive children, it all went a bit different, but in my case the wait would have been unnecessary. Though in any case adoption is for the pateint ones as there is waiting to do at all stages.

Anyway, I think it is really a great idea to volunteer! We get children over for the holidays, there might be prgrams like that over there too and this way you can actually care for a child for a while full time.

 

[cath]

Just wanted to wish you good luck on your journey My MIL & FIL tried for years & couldnt get pregnant. They adopted a little girl & then went on to naturally concieve 3 healthy boys.

 

[CareBear]

I can not understand the waiting time myself, but I know over here they also say that some countries expect you to now be trying for a biological child. We came into adoption another way, so it is all a bit strange for me. See, we did actually meet a child we wanted to adopt, so if we had to wait for anything it would have just meant her staying in an orphanage longer than necesary.
I have always wanted both biological and adoptive children, it all went a bit different, but in my case the wait would have been unnecessary. Though in any case adoption is for the pateint ones as there is waiting to do at all stages.

In this country the reason it all takes a long time before being approved is beacuse of the number of checks that have to be done with the police and local authority and the fact that SW's can only have so many cases allocated at one time so there may be a wait until a social worker has capacity. Applicants also have to attend a four day prep course which are only run so many times a year and obviously people may not be able to get on the next available one due to prior commitments. Once all that is done there is the home assessment to be completed which is a pretty heafty report, references to take up and reports on these written. Then you have to try and get onto a panel and depending on how busy the local authority is depends on when a date is available. So lots to be done which all takes time although they try and get through each stage as effiently as possible.

 

[Beckic]

Thank you Carebear - voluntering somewhere was something I had thought about - and you are right - I should look into this now and use the time as a positive.

 

[Chloe's mum02]

I just wanted to wish you luck on your new exciting journey.... I'm sure all the waiting will be worth it in the end

Amy xx

 

[fluffosaur]

Beckic - The part of your post which says you would "tell them we're using precautions but won't be" really worries me. The adoption process is very thorough and eventually your social worker would be able to figure out that you hadn't been truthful with them.

Of course, if you do conceive naturally during the adoption process and then miscarry it would be incredibly difficult for you to then return to the adoption department and ask to restart your application. If it transpires that you were not truthful and were looking to adoption as a "backup" then the Panel would be far less likely to approve your application. If they'd even restart it at all given that you continued TTC naturally throughout the assessment. It just doesn't work like that. I'm sorry if that's harsh, but it's true.

We really do ask for 100% commitment from couples who come to the adoption process. The children who are in the care system have been through enough already and need that dedication from you. It's really a small price to pay if you really are desperate to become a mum to one of them.

You say you don't believe anybody gives up on becoming a natural mother but in my experience, they really do. Being an adoptive mum and a natural mum are two very different things and maybe your OH is right in delaying the application a little longer. I'm not sure your view of the adoption process is quite in the right place at the moment, and so this extra bit of time might help you to formulate a more positive outlook on things. Have you considered grief counselling to help you to come to terms with your previous losses?

I wish you all the best. The adoption process is long, exhausting and difficult but it's all worth it in the end.

 

[xMissxZoiex]

Best of luck on your new journey! You will become the momma you deserve to be hunny weither it be through the Adoption Process or Spontaneous Pregnancy. Good Luck! x

 

[MissAma]

Wow, really no meaning to spark a conflict, maybe a good spirited debate at most but Fluffosaur, can you explain the rationale behind "why" it is that parents are meant to give up ever wanting to be a natural parent? Qui prodes? How does it serve the adopted child that his parents had to go through a set process of depression and grief as deemed necessary by a social worker? I can't wrap my mind around it.

What of after the adoption? What happens with all the natural children who may later follow, surely the agency can't ask for the natural parenting ability to be enforced after either hence your line of thought of them being different paths and one needing to be chosen is not valid. Why not ask for a histerectomy and/or a vasectomy too to show commitment?

I find the requirement to use contraceptives truly intruding and insulting because the only motivation I can think of is to make sure that a couple doesn't back off in their adoption process because they got pregnant naturally and hence waste the adoption authority's money. I can see no way in which this serves the newly adopted child since protection against natural siblings can not be accomplished anyhow.

So again, what is the official line, "why" this requirement?

 

[fluffosaur]

The rationale is basically that moving on to adoption requires 100% commitment. If you haven't ever been in, or worked in, the adoption process then I cannot expect you to understand this.

We extensively prepare our prospective adopters for their new journey through training courses, the adoption assessment procedures and counselling. This does require them to put all thoughts of conceiving naturally out of their heads - they are going to be parents of somebody elses child now, not their own. You cannot truly parent somebody elses child if you are still holding out the hope of one day conceiving your own.

Where adoptive parents have conceived naturally after the adoption order has been granted (typically 18 months after the match has been made) this has led to a higher incidence of disruption. Those who use adoption as a "backup" never really see their adoptive children as their "own" and thus they are more likely to "send them back" to care once they have no need for them anymore. Only around 8% of adoptive placements end in disruption and so we must be doing something right with our "abitrary" guidelines and lack of psychological assessments of adoptive couples.

These children have likely moved from foster carer to foster carer, have no idea who their birth parents are (if birth parents lead chaotic or violent lives) and just need some stability. We aim to provide them that stability in as short amount of time as possible.

Still holding out hope of having your own natural child means you are not fully committed to the adoption process. The process is long, exhausting and time-consuming. You go through all kinds of emotional upheavals.

Bare in mind your social worker will begin discussing potential adoptive children in the few weeks before your application goes to Panel. In Panel they completely pull adopters apart to ensure they are suitable - this is to protect the children. If you are trying to discuss potential adoptive children WHILST still trying to conceive your own - how does that even work? It's entirely selfish on the part of the prospective adopters. We dedicate our lives to finding good homes for our children in care and quite frankly, they've already been through enough. Adults have many safeguards in place to help them come to terms with trauma but children do not, and should not, have them.

In our experience we've seen couples come to Panel, have their application approved and then conceive naturally. At the point we know they are going to be approved we start looking for children to match them with. The adoption process from beginning to end takes around 12 months and that is including 9 dedicated months of a social workers time. As a social worker you don't have much time and so when somebody turns around and goes "actually, we don't want to adopt anymore" can you imagine the uproar that causes? This isn't money we are worried about here - this is the wasting of our time when we could have been approving other adopters. There is a waiting list to get into the adoption approval process and for a couple to have consumed a year's worth of time only to turn around and throw it back at us is really a very selfish thing to do. It's great they've conceived naturally but where does that leave us? With around 100 children who are currently waiting for adoptive placements and no adopters to place them with.

We've had couples who reach the stage of Introductions (after a match has been approved by Panel and the children are mere weeks away from moving in) with their adoptive children, with the children fully aware that they are going to have new parents, who have turned around and told us they are now pregnant. Can you imagine being that child and having a social worker tell you that your new mummy and daddy can't adopt you anymore because they're having a child of their "own"?

Everything we do is for the children. If you come to adoption knowing that you are still going to try and conceive naturally then you only really have yourself in mind.

 

[magicvw]

I don't get it either, and I don't think there are two kinds of mother - those who adopt and those who didn't. My DH has 3 brothers and an adopted sister - she was adopted after all of them had been born. His mother is not a "different" person when it comes to the relationship she has with his sister. My SIL/BIL have adopted three kids due to infertility, and I don't think they will ever give up the hope of having a child naturally, even though they did abide by the no-TTC rules during the adoption process. I am sure there are prospective parents who change their minds at the last minute for any number of reasons, and I'd be interested to see some stats on how many of them did it because they (amazingly) got pregnant just before the process was completed.

 

[fluffosaur]

The thing is - you HAVE to be a different kind of parent to an adopted child. We provide a lot of pre-approval training to ensure that adopters know the difference. Children who have been adopted experience abandonment issues, identity crisies and grieve for their birth family. If you parent them the same way you parent your own children then you are going to experience all kinds of problems. 90% of the parenting is the same, but 10% (which is why our process is so extensive - to ensure you can provide this 10%) is very different.

What we find is that women tend to get pregnant as soon as they stop trying. As soon as the pressure is off ("WE'RE ADOPTING!) and the stress levels in their bodies reduce, then conception is more likely.

 

[lesleyann]

people adopting babies surely dont have that 10% since the child never new any different? Also i dont get the TTC thing so if your pregnant you cannot adopt just because you can only be 1 type of mother to your "own" child or to a child which is not your "own"...

Surely it would be great all around for people to be able to get pregnant and still adopt bring a child into there home and love them

 

[MissAma]

I was going to react and point out the rather obvious gaps and fallacies in your argument above but since seeing your latest pearl of the "relax and you'll conceive" wisdom type when we're discussing infertile couples I don't think I can be logical and kind enough to carry on with this debate so I will bow out of it our of respect for Bec.

As a last thought, I'd like to point out for everyone reading this and feeling discouraged by some of those remarks above that A. this is just the opinion of someone in the system; and B. when it comes to the other point of view, no matter who says what, they can not reinforce the TTC requirement so good luck becoming parents soon in whichever way it is, or, if you're real lucky, in both fashions.

 

[fluffosaur]

MissAma - You would be welcome to attend an adoption information evening and discuss your views with an adoption social worker in person. It is too difficult to discuss these complex issues over the internet. Like you said I'm "from the system". However, I'm also on the other side of the system and considering adoption as a way forward through my own infertility.

LesleyAnn - We don't just approve adoptions for babies. In fact, very few adoptions are for healthy white british babies. A lot of them have come from drug-addicted mothers or those who have abused alcohol during their pregnancies. That "10%" we ask for is because as adoptive parents you would likely have to deal with the ongoing effects of this into the future. The child may have a harder time attaching (yes, this can happen with birth children but it's far less likely) due to several foster carer moves before they reach their adoptive home. They also may have developmental delay, health problems relating to issues during the pregnancy or any number of other difficulties. You need to be a parent "and them some" to be able to adopt. Of course, many placements also go off without a hitch but this really cannot be predicted.

If you get pregnant during the adoption process we could not possibly allow the adoption to continue. Settling in an adopted child is a very difficult process and one which could not be undertaken by anybody who is also trying to settle in their birth child. Adopted children have enough trouble adjusting to a home where there is already a settled birth child (aged 5+) and so to do them both at the same time could potentially be disasterous.

A couple who had their own birth child would potentially be able to adopt once their birth child was 5+ years old but we tend to find they don't want to anymore.

This is years of professional experience which has led the Adoption service to have these policies in place. I did some work with a young lady who was adopted into a family where she was older than their birth son (we would never do this now) and then the couple got pregnant again just as the adoption order was granted. The adoption disrupted less than 5 years later and she spent until 16 in care, feeling unloved and rejected by everybody. We have these policies in place to ensure that incidents like that do not happen.

Anybody interested in adoption really does need to do their research prior to embarking on this journey. Attend information evenings, read lots of books about adoption and seek out adoption-specific forums on the internet. If you think anything I've said seems "harsh" of social workers then I cannot even tell you how difficult you would find the full adoption assessment process. However, over 3000 couples were approved as adopters last year and just as many children were adopted so it's worthwhile in the end.

If anybody has any questions please feel free to message me directly. I feel we have hijacked this thread enough now.

 

[lesleyann]

MissAma - You would be welcome to attend an adoption information evening and discuss your views with an adoption social worker in person. It is too difficult to discuss these complex issues over the internet. Like you said I'm "from the system". However, I'm also on the other side of the system and considering adoption as a way forward through my own infertility.

LesleyAnn - We don't just approve adoptions for babies. In fact, very few adoptions are for healthy white british babies. A lot of them have come from drug-addicted mothers or those who have abused alcohol during their pregnancies. That "10%" we ask for is because as adoptive parents you would likely have to deal with the ongoing effects of this into the future. The child may have a harder time attaching (yes, this can happen with birth children but it's far less likely) due to several foster carer moves before they reach their adoptive home. They also may have developmental delay, health problems relating to issues during the pregnancy or any number of other difficulties. You need to be a parent "and them some" to be able to adopt. Of course, many placements also go off without a hitch but this really cannot be predicted.

If you get pregnant during the adoption process we could not possibly allow the adoption to continue. Settling in an adopted child is a very difficult process and one which could not be undertaken by anybody who is also trying to settle in their birth child. Adopted children have enough trouble adjusting to a home where there is already a settled birth child (aged 5+) and so to do them both at the same time could potentially be disasterous.

A couple who had their own birth child would potentially be able to adopt once their birth child was 5+ years old but we tend to find they don't want to anymore.

This is years of professional experience which has led the Adoption service to have these policies in place. I did some work with a young lady who was adopted into a family where she was older than their birth son (we would never do this now) and then the couple got pregnant again just as the adoption order was granted. The adoption disrupted less than 5 years later and she spent until 16 in care, feeling unloved and rejected by everybody. We have these policies in place to ensure that incidents like that do not happen.

Anybody interested in adoption really does need to do their research prior to embarking on this journey. Attend information evenings, read lots of books about adoption and seek out adoption-specific forums on the internet. If you think anything I've said seems "harsh" of social workers then I cannot even tell you how difficult you would find the full adoption assessment process. However, over 3000 couples were approved as adopters last year and just as many children were adopted so it's worthwhile in the end.

If anybody has any questions please feel free to message me directly. I feel we have hijacked this thread enough now.

i new the rate for people getting babies was low but i never even thought about "problem" babies bless them

So what happens if people have adopted and then get pregnant a year or 2 after adopting.. since i would guess in alot of cases after a while people who beleive they are infertile would not want to be on birth controll since there would seem to be no need for it?i would of thought alot would still want to keep there adopted child

 

[Step Mummy]

A couple of months ago we were given the news that we cannot conceive naturally and we have the option of going throught IVF, although first my husband has to have an invasive opperation, and we do not qualify for IVF through the NHS, so all treatment will have to be paid for. We are just trying to decide if this is worth the agony (physical and mental), the emotional rollercoaster, the huge fund of money, and the long-drawn out process, with the chance of success at the other end being only 29%.
When we started to realise we had a problem we started to discuss adoption, my husband has a son who is now 18, we have been together for over 10 years, so I had many happy years with him as a youngster around, although he only lived with us since he was 14. I know how much I love him unconditionally, and I feel I could put this to an adoptive child as well. We have a fantastic lifestyle and think we could give an unfortunate child a great life. I know that they like us to take time to come to terms with not being able to conceive naturally, but whilst we are making our decision, I am trying to find out more info about adopting, timescales etc. I know they like us to have a long break in between TTC and Adoption process in order to ensure we are 100% sure, which I agree is a good plan, even though, once we set that route we will want it to happen quickly!

My husband is also very excited about adopting, and together we think this is probably the best way forward for us all, (without persuing the fertlilty treatment). We just want to have all the facts on the IVF and adoption before we make a final life changing decision. He is aged 48 (I am 32) and I know this will have an impact, but how much?

Thanks for any help offered.
XX