Nick Griffin and "heterophobia"

[vaniilla]

I met Nick Griffin just over two years ago and he is the biggest twat I have ever had to speak to. I think who you allow into your private home is your business, however, when your home is your place of work then it's not just visitors, all employers have to follow the same laws, just because they live in their place of work doesn't mean they're entitled to any special allowences, their home is a business, if they can't abide to legal and ethical business practice then they need to re-evaulate their priorities.

 

[freckleonear]

I can't stand Nick Griffin and publicising the couple's address was an awful thing to do.

However, I don't agree with the court's ruling. Lots of services are targeted at particular groups of people, to the exclusion of others. Plenty of holiday parks will not take bookings for single-sex parties or under 25s. Shops have the right to refuse to serve anyone if they want.

If the B&B owners want to cater for only married couples in accordance with their religious beliefs, then I think they should have that right. It did clearly state on their website that double rooms were only available for married couples (which also means that they weren't discriminating on the basis of sexuality, as they would have refused heterosexual unmarried couples too).

The B&B owners have sent a message in response to Griffin's tweet saying:

We would like to express our sympathy with the homosexual couple Michael Black and John Morgan. We know how it feels to have your address publicised and to receive constant threats, unpleasant statements and misunderstanding. Our Christian faith centres on the amazing and undeserved love and sacrifice of Jesus Christ for all mankind. Although Michael and John have chosen to take us to court we bear them no malice. On the contrary we pray for them and for their protection.

 

[lovie]

I think the couple need to find a new way of making money, they ofcourse have the right to invite who they want into their home but when they run a business they need to realise that in this day in age you can't discriminate against people because of race/sexuality/religion.

Maybe they need to rethink their Christian values with a little more focus on acceptance and understanding.

 

[Ozzieshunni]

I'm sorry, but that couple's tweet? What a load of bullshit.

 

[lhancock90]

The couples tweet reads a little smug in all honesty.

Personally, i think if YOU choose to open a business, you set your own views aside and accept all custom.

 

[Kess]

I think IF they would've accepted a married (civil partnered) gay couple, and checked the marriage certificates of heterosexual couples staying there, that's different. I suspect they wouldn't have considered any gay couple married.

Under-25's etc is not the same, as everyone has been under 25 at some point and all under-25s will be over 25 at some point. Gay people don't turn straight.

 

[Foogirl]

I wonder if this religious woman who runs the B&B would also refuse unmarried couples a double room?

Yes they would. And they said as much. Of course it's easier for a heterosexual couple to hide and lie about it.

And they didn't refuse to have them stay, just not in a double room. This is why labelling this couple as homophobic is a little flawed.

I do think any business should have the right to choose who they do business with. That way, it is society who decides what is acceptable and what isn't rather than the law getting involved and this whole nonsense about compensation for "hurt feelings" is ridiculous. At most this couple should have been awarded any out of pocket travel expenses and perhaps any extra costs they incurred in finding alternative accommodation.

To liken it to "the olden days" when businesses would turn away black people is a little off. Those were different times and I believe that even without a law, the vast majority of businesses wouldn't do that nowadays. Any that did would probably go out of business. I think that's how it should be dealt with. Let these little old couple's run their B&Bs, letting in whomever they choose and they might well do great business or they might not, it's not like this B&B is the only one that couple had the choice of using.

I have absolutely no time for anyone who would turn away a gay couple, it irritates me that people hold these outdated views but I think they are entitled to hold those opinions and apply those to their customers if they wish. If they were to discriminate against their staff, that's a different issue.

I think couples like this need to grow up and move on. There are large numbers of things I can't go to with our disabled daughter. The law protects us so far, but the bottom line is some people are not willing to go the extra mile, or to bend to another's needs. I simply find somewhere else to go or something else to do. Life isn't fair, some people are crap but we have to stop suing everything that moves when we don't get our way. It's getting ridiculous.

 

[Jaylynne]

It is bad business to refuse based on sexuality BUT My LOs godfather was studying to become a CPA and one of the questions he had to answer before the board was whether or not he would accept the business of a gay couple if it conflicted with his religious beliefs. He thought that the answer (and what he would do for his financial planning business) would be that you should seperate business and personal but interestingly enough the board thinks the correct answer is to turn them away as you may not be able to give them the best unbiased financial decisions. Thank goodness he found that out during the pretesting and he did have that question during his board exam. I just found that shocking! How would that boost business if you discriminate?! Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean you have to shun it.

 

[summer rain]

I'm sure if someone really wants to disallow certain types of people staying at their establishment there are ways around it; say perhaps making your establishment a 'private members club'? and just make anyone who turns up and you want to stay there private members and those whom you don't, deny them membership. I'm pretty sure that is then legal. I know there was a restaurant like that I went to with my sister; they didn't want dodgy people or undesirables coming in so they made it like a private members club and gave you 'membership' even if you weren't ever going to come there again xx

 

[alaskagrown]

Discriminatory, yes, but within their rights as business owners.

Would they then be right to refuse someone on the grounds that they were black, purely because they are business owners? Would a shop be right to refuse to serve someone because they were disabled, just because they were business owners?

Actually, yes. Remember the old signs, "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"? It is their business and they make the rules.

We don't have to agree with it, it doesn't even have to be morally right, but they are the owners. Ultimately what they decide to do will profit them or hurt them.

So in America a shop or something could refuse to serve a black man, just because he's black? Or a woman who's not wearing modest enough clothes? Or an elderly person? Really?

I really only see these "We have the right to refuse service to anyone" in drinking establishments or eateries. I mean, I would hate to own a restaurant and have to be required to serve a smelling drunkard that was disrupting the atmosphere of my regular customers!

 

[Ozzieshunni]

^^I agree. I've only seen those "right to refuse service" at eateries and restaurants.

 

[BabyJayne]

I wonder if this religious woman who runs the B&B would also refuse unmarried couples a double room?

Yes they would. And they said as much. Of course it's easier for a heterosexual couple to hide and lie about it.

And they didn't refuse to have them stay, just not in a double room. This is why labelling this couple as homophobic is a little flawed.

I do think any business should have the right to choose who they do business with. That way, it is society who decides what is acceptable and what isn't rather than the law getting involved and this whole nonsense about compensation for "hurt feelings" is ridiculous. At most this couple should have been awarded any out of pocket travel expenses and perhaps any extra costs they incurred in finding alternative accommodation.

To liken it to "the olden days" when businesses would turn away black people is a little off. Those were different times and I believe that even without a law, the vast majority of businesses wouldn't do that nowadays. Any that did would probably go out of business. I think that's how it should be dealt with. Let these little old couple's run their B&Bs, letting in whomever they choose and they might well do great business or they might not, it's not like this B&B is the only one that couple had the choice of using.

I have absolutely no time for anyone who would turn away a gay couple, it irritates me that people hold these outdated views but I think they are entitled to hold those opinions and apply those to their customers if they wish. If they were to discriminate against their staff, that's a different issue.

I think couples like this need to grow up and move on. There are large numbers of things I can't go to with our disabled daughter. The law protects us so far, but the bottom line is some people are not willing to go the extra mile, or to bend to another's needs. I simply find somewhere else to go or something else to do. Life isn't fair, some people are crap but we have to stop suing everything that moves when we don't get our way. It's getting ridiculous.

I agree to some extent. What's that quote - I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. I am totally for that. I'm also totally against this compensation culture and agree that sometimes life just isn't bloody fair and that's the way it is.

But, while I think they should be allowed their opinons, that should not extend to banning customers from a double room because of those opinions. I think a business that makes a profit by operating within a country that legally embraces the joining of people of the same sex, then that legality should extend. They operate within the laws of the land and should abide by them. Maybe they should have made it more clear on the telephone when taking the booking (and the deposit). It is maybe a bit radical comparing it to turning away a black person - but in essence it is the same. Refusing to allow a person to use an available service based on their sexual orientation/colour/gender.

There are passages in the bible that can be interpreted as being against interracial marriages - so would they be allowed to turn people away based on that? I just think it is hard to draw the line, and things like this have no place in modern day society.

Unfortunately for that couple now, they have been tarred with the BNP brush. Given the choice of housing EDL/BNP fanatics instead, they will probably be welcoming gay couples back with open arms!

 

[Foogirl]

But, while I think they should be allowed their opinons, that should not extend to banning customers from a double room because of those opinions. I think a business that makes a profit by operating within a country that legally embraces the joining of people of the same sex, then that legality should extend. They operate within the laws of the land and should abide by them. Maybe they should have made it more clear on the telephone when taking the booking (and the deposit). It is maybe a bit radical comparing it to turning away a black person - but in essence it is the same. Refusing to allow a person to use an available service based on their sexual orientation/colour/gender.

There are passages in the bible that can be interpreted as being against interracial marriages - so would they be allowed to turn people away based on that? I just think it is hard to draw the line, and things like this have no place in modern day society.

Unfortunately for that couple now, they have been tarred with the BNP brush. Given the choice of housing EDL/BNP fanatics instead, they will probably be welcoming gay couples back with open arms!

But others have said, it's entirely acceptable for hotels to put up a notice saying no same sex groups. That's discriminatory against groups of people on the grounds purely of their sex but the law allows it. There are many, many situations when disabled access is not provided and again, the law allows it. A doctor can refuse to sign off someone for an abortion if it goes against their religion, pharmacists can refuse to give out contraceptives and the law allows it. These are all situations where businesses or organisations make a profit but can refuse to serve people on discriminatory grounds. Why does a couple running a B&B not have that same right?

I agree about the interpretation of the bible. The whole fairytale is flawed and is open to interpretation, but it's not just about the bible it is about what their faith teaches and they choose to follow. I just think, these guys had a choice and they chose to put themselves in this situation by booking at a B&B which I suspect they knew wouldn't have accepted their booking had they known. They had a choice to say "fair enough, we don't want to cause offence" and move on. This couple are being forced to accept a view they don't believe in, or else they must lose their livelihoods. Why is it that when it comes to "rights" it seems that so many innocent people have none?

 

[CeeDee]

I've seen signs that will refuse service if you aren't dressed approriately or drunk.

Why would anyone want to patronize someplace where your not welcome? I don't think its right, but I would leave if I was not welcome. I don't care if someone has a problem with my race (or anything else) as long as they treat me with respect and dignity.