O/T should prisoners be able to have sex whilst doing a sentance

[MrsWest]

No the shouldn't they should be cut off from everything" They only have themselves to blame for being there in the first place.

 

[Natsku]

Cut off from everything? How is that going to make them better people?

 

[MrsWest]

Maybe not from everything (wrong choice of words), but why should they be allowed to have sex? It's not very romantic is it?

 

[Natsku]

I suddenly have an image of rose petals strewn across a prison cell....

Well love and relationships are a huge part of emotional wellbeing and sex is part of that. If we want people coming out of prison as better people then we want to take care of their emotional wellbeing.

 

[MrsWest]

I suddenly have an image of rose petals strewn across a prison cell....

Well love and relationships are a huge part of emotional wellbeing and sex is part of that. If we want people coming out of prison as better people then we want to take care of their emotional wellbeing.

Lol i had candles and soft music in my image...

That's true, but i don't see why they should be able to. Unless there are rules regarding it and lines that they cannot cross.

 

[Natsku]

They have a hotel here that used to be a prison. I am tempted to go create that image in it

Of course there must be strict rules and it must be a special privilege earned, not a right for all prisoners.

 

[Redhead84]

The UK is out of sync with quite a number of both developed and not so developed nations on this subject.

In other countries there is provision for visits that take place in special "apartments" within the prison walls, and as much privacy is given as can be.

I am surprised the lack of facility for this has not been challenged under the HRA yet, and no doubt it will be tested at some point.

I am not sure I would have ever wanted to go down that route even if available, though it's a moot point as it wasn't and still isn't. It would feel impersonal and strange I would imagine.. And, without going into too much, the emotional release for both of you when you can do stuff again is brilliant

 

[lesleyann]

I think if it was ever done there would have to be very strict rules..

Earn it
Cannot be a murder, pedophile, rapist
Women MUST be on some sort of contraception other than the pill... Don't want loads of prison babies suddenly appearing with father in jail for years to come.
Can only be with a long term partner/wife/husband
Partner to be fully strip searched before going in
Once a month or every few months not an every week thing

Sure I could think of some more

 

[LuckyYem]

I have been reading this thread and thought long and hard if I wanted to post in it. My 14yo brother was killed in a car crash, the person driving was in my year at school and I also knew the other passinger in the car. After the crash the person driving tried to tell the police that my brother was driving, but forensics etc proved who the driver was. I saw the person who was driving several times after the crash and he proceeded to laugh in my face - litrally! About 6 months after the crash he went out and stole 2 motorbikes. When the case came to court he changed his plea at the last min to guilty and attempted to apologise to me for his actions after the crash, the judge ordered this to be struck from the record. He was sentanced to 18mths - the maximum he could be given for causing death by dangerous driving, banned from deiving for 5yrs. About a year after he was released I saw him driving and reported him to the police, I don't know what punishment he was given if any. To this day I still see the person that was driving with his partner and children this happened 17 years ago. Do I think he should have been able to have sex whilst in prison - NO! He has been able to continue with his life after his sentance was served, yet 17 years later we are still paying for his crime. My mum and dad had to have a funeral for their only son, I lost my only brother, my daughters will never get to meet their uncle. A lot of debate seems to be about the rights of prisoners and their families but what about the effect all of this has on the victims and their families? I understand every crime is different and obviously this is just my opinion but one I feel strongly about.

 

[JASMAK]

I have been reading this thread and thought long and hard if I wanted to post in it. My 14yo brother was killed in a car crash, the person driving was in my year at school and I also knew the other passinger in the car. After the crash the person driving tried to tell the police that my brother was driving, but forensics etc proved who the driver was. I saw the person who was driving several times after the crash and he proceeded to laugh in my face - litrally! About 6 months after the crash he went out and stole 2 motorbikes. When the case came to court he changed his plea at the last min to guilty and attempted to apologise to me for his actions after the crash, the judge ordered this to be struck from the record. He was sentanced to 18mths - the maximum he could be given for causing death by dangerous driving, banned from deiving for 5yrs. About a year after he was released I saw him driving and reported him to the police, I don't know what punishment he was given if any. To this day I still see the person that was driving with his partner and children this happened 17 years ago. Do I think he should have been able to have sex whilst in prison - NO! He has been able to continue with his life after his sentance was served, yet 17 years later we are still paying for his crime. My mum and dad had to have a funeral for their only son, I lost my only brother, my daughters will never get to meet their uncle. A lot of debate seems to be about the rights of prisoners and their families but what about the effect all of this has on the victims and their families? I understand every crime is different and obviously this is just my opinion but one I feel strongly about.

Thank you!! you described the dirt scums I see...they aren't sorry...they are sorry the got caught. They deserve nothing....I do agree with educating, bu they don't need sex, tv, or videos to learn. They need structure, conselling, anger management, education, and skills.

 

[Redhead84]

All of the education people speak of, and with which I absolutely agree, costs money.

It is money the prison service just doesn't have and as throwing more money at prisoners isn't a vote winner it's not going to happen any time soon unfortunately.

Solving the problem of illiteracy in the prison population needs a long term view of spending more in the short term to reap the benefits in the medium and long term.

However, trying to get the average Sun reading member of the public to realise that is as hard as teaching them quantum physics. No Government who campaigns with educating prisoners on their mandate won't get voted in, therefore the problem is unlikely to change.

Until the electorate is prepared to pay for alternatives, TV will stay, as
it's about keeping them quiet as cheaply as possible.

I am not naive to peoples differing opinions on this subject, however ask yourself how much more of your hard earned money would you be prepared to give up in tax to achieve the better education and work opportunities that are needed to make devices such as TV and Playstations redundant?

 

[Natsku]

Thats why politicians don't get involved with the criminal justice system here and don't make it part of their campaigns. Its left up to the people who actually know what they're doing (i.e. the experts) and they don't have to worry about what the average idiotic member of public thinks.

 

[Redhead84]

Thats why politicians don't get involved with the criminal justice system here and don't make it part of their campaigns. Its left up to the people who actually know what they're doing (i.e. the experts) and they don't have to worry about what the average idiotic member of public thinks.

In the end though the money comes from the Government of the day. Until there is political will for change the stays quo will remain.

It is far from an easy problem to solve with strong views on both sides, and I don't see anything meaningful happening for quite some time.

 

[Natsku]

Yeah true, but the Government here has always known better than to mess with what works.

I agree, I highly doubt real change will happen in the UK anytime soon. Real improvement would require a huge overhaul of the whole system, like what they did here, and no one would agree to that because people fear change too much. And of course the UK population is so much bigger and that makes reaching consensus much harder.

 

[smelly07]

My uncle was walking home from work when he got knocked down and killed by a lady who was applying lipstick whilst driving, she had her licence taken away for x amount of years and x amount of years probabtion, no prison sentence, she apologised to the family and that was that,.. she will have to live with killing someone for the rest of her life...........the only thing is she isnt labelled a 'murderer' like SO many people that have been in similar circumstances but have been given prison sentences and are dealing with years in prison but are no different really from this lady..........they did something stupid, they wont ever do it again and they are sorry and full of remorse and are trying to deal with prison the best they can .......Yes there are people who just dont learn and re-offend etc etc and yes there are some evil evil people to but there are also people who made misakes and that can happen to anyone, and of course there are also actually innocents locked up. we all have different life experiences which make us think the way we do and we all think and feel differently to me the whole justice system is messed up, the whole prison system is messed up, all prisoners are different and shouldnt be tarred with the same brush.


Also people dont realise the effect it has on the prisoners famillies either ..... no one unless in that situation would understand.............alot of people view the prisoners families as bad as the prisoner.

the prison system in the UK is tough, it isnt easy but it is ok compared to other countries however like i have said before i dont think prisoners should be allowed sex as long as they are being kept in a safe enviroment but again i dont view TV as an issue..........on the clip i posted about the prisoner in Africa choosing different prisoners to share his cell so they can be 'his wife' and he rapes them face to face and if he chooses a prisoner and they refuse he kills them..........for 16 years he has done this yet nothing has been done.........how is this allowed to happen.......? not having a TV or sex with females is the least of a lot of prisoners worries...................no amount of rehab goes on they are all treated extreamly badly and they dont differentiate on treatment depending on crime or circumstance either.

 

[Mummy Bean]

hmm intreasting thread...

IMO sex should be allowed as reward for good behaviour...i think that depending on the severity of your crime and the length of your sentance and your chance of release should all be taken into consideration.

i think that the first half of a sentance should be strict lock down with no privelages then the inmate should be given the opportunity in prision to 'prove' themselves through good behaviour/working/attending councilling and help sessions ect this then shows that they are a candidate for rehabilation and release. and it is these inmates that should then be allowed to have some privalages...such as sex with a partner which will inturn help them have a goal on the outside world to continue there good behaviour for... and then subsequently these inmates should be given the oportunity to learn new skills and obtain qualifications. given them all the best possibilty at succeding when returning to the general population.

i think this approach allows a clear separation between those that have done wrong but feel remorse and are willing to change and those who as others have described are simply 'scum'...who will re enter society and reoffend. ..and who simply should be locked away.

should one who is prision for drug related crimes who came to this walk in life because they themselves came from an abusive, poverty striken home with no opportunity of schooling or work be painted with the same brush as a middle class man who decided to beat and kill his wife simply because he was jelous...compared to a woman with a serious mental illness who goes on a killing rampage? NO! we need to focus on why these people are comminting crimes, maybe if we focused on raising the poverty level, providing better schooling, providing more equality in jobs, training people to spot sociopaths before they commit a crime, and providing a better system for dealing with mental health.

simply throwing every one in prision is not the answer...obviously as our prisions in the UK are so full we cannot afford to keep locked up the people that are a serious threat to our society.

please do not see any of the above of me saying that the crimnials you ladies have described should have privilages such as sex as it is obvious that these come into the category of people that do not feel remorse and should not be given any privilages other then basic human essentials.

 

[Mummy Bean]

I would also like to add although off topic from the original question is i think the law should be changed so that instead of being given your maximum sentance ie 5yrs for a hit and run. a criminal should be given a minimum sentace of say for the same crime 3 years but they do not get released until they shown they are able to be rehabilitated.

This would then stop ppl doing a crime doing the time and starting all over again...it will mean that even those who commit small crimes can stay in prision for a long time if they cannot prove that they are a positive contribution to society...this will hopefully stop reoffending!

 

[Redhead84]

I would also like to add although off topic from the original question is i think the law should be changed so that instead of being given your maximum sentance ie 5yrs for a hit and run. a criminal should be given a minimum sentace of say for the same crime 3 years but they do not get released until they shown they are able to be rehabilitated.

This already does happen in some cases, it is called an indeterminate sentence or commonly an IPP (Imprisonment for Public Protection). These are only generally used where the crime has a sentence of 10 years or more, and in these cases there is no automatic right to be released after the specified tariff length, set by the sentencing judge, has been served. The prisoner will not be released until he/she can satisfy the parole board that they are no longer a danger to society.

They are impractical on a number of levels (cost being one) and if they were to be used in more or all cases, the appeal courts would rightly be full to breaking point.

These sentences should not be confused with a Life sentence, whereby there is, in most cases, an automatic right of release after the tariff length has been served - very very few, less than 1% if my memory is correct, who are given life sentences remain in prison for life.


To answer your earlier point regarding a first half of a sentence being a "lock down" - this in reality would mean the first quarter of a sentence, as all prisoners, unless on the above IPP or life sentences, are released at the half way point or ARD (automatic release date) with the rest of the sentence being served on licence under supervision of probation - any transgressions mean an automatic recall to prison to serve out the remainder of the sentence.

This is, of course, not including schemes such as Home Detention Curfew, more commonly referred to as "being on tag" which can result in a prisoner being released earlier than the ARD (but only after at least a quarter of the sentence has been served in prison.. for instance 3 months into a 12 month sentence) and the early release scheme which allows prisoners to be released up to 18 days before their ARD.

Sorry for boring you all, as you were!!!

 

[Mummy Bean]

I was not suggesting that priosoner get realsed early more simply there time in prision is split in two ...one the simple punishment of being loosing freedom and any privilages then after they be given the opportunity (whilst still in prision) to 'prove' themselves.

I dont think things such as electric tagging or curfew works ...but i dont have much personal experience so i only go by what i see on the news.


but thanks for your insight =)
i just think that in no way does the current system work.

 

[Redhead84]

Sorry, maybe I didn't explain myself properly - I wasn't suggesting you were.. Just trying to give a more detailed explanation of the current system and the processes available that aren't usually given air time by the news.