O/T should prisoners be able to have sex whilst doing a sentance

[Redhead84]

Breivik is somewhat of a special case. Prosecutors are trying to have him found to be criminally insane, thus put into psychiatric care and getting around the maximum tariff - it will not be a change in the law as such.

the problem is that he keeps proving himself to be sane.. but i dont think they would only give him 21 years.. i think they realise that it doesnt work for a very very extream case like his.

I'm not a human rights or criminal law expert.. far from it having worked in banking and corporate matters for my career... however they may be on a sticky wicket if they rush through, or effectively create, a law that will effectively have retrospective elements.

I have not been following the case closely enough, however I wouldn't be surprised if there was a protracted legal discussion going on somewhere about this... given that it is likely to have a far wider impact than may be originally thought.

 

[lovie]

im not sure either hun,

but i dont think it will be the beginning of many more long terms in norway.. i think it must have made them look at the reality that sometimes people are dangerous enough so that 21 years isnt enough.

 

[Redhead84]

im not sure either hun,

but i dont think it will be the beginning of many more long terms in norway.. i think it must have made them look at the reality that sometimes people are dangerous enough so that 21 years isnt enough.

very possibly. We'll wait and see what happens.

Sorry for the O/T bit!

 

[lovie]

im not sure either hun,

but i dont think it will be the beginning of many more long terms in norway.. i think it must have made them look at the reality that sometimes people are dangerous enough so that 21 years isnt enough.

very possibly. We'll wait and see what happens.

Sorry for the O/T bit!

i'm sorry too.. feels extra naughty going o/t on a o/t thread

 

[Natsku]

Natsku, do you only see prison as being a place to 'rehabilitate' people? There are some people who won't ever be rehabiltated and what will deter people from committing crimes in the first place if they know prison wont be so bad? There are consequences for our actions that we are all aware of and often stop people doing these things- being afraid of being caught.
I know most people don't break the law 'because they don't want to get caught' but some will. If you speed, you get a ticket, you may end up losing your license. You don't get 'rehabilitated'... You get punished- these things work!
So the fact that prison s becoming more and more cosy is surely going make criminals less worried about being caught. And for some- they don't give a damn about spending a year inside- you have to remember they types of people we're talking about. Armed robbers who really don't care who they hurt to get what they want- they know the risks but it doesn't stop them. If they know prison isnt going to be 'punishment' then all the more reason to keep doing it.
I am in no way saying prison should be really awful but I do think that 'luxuries' should be restricted and 'sex' really is a high end luxury in my opinion.

I think the whole criminal justice system should have a main focus of rehabilitation as thats the only aspect of punishment that brings about anything positive. But I know some people cannot be rehabilitated and they need to be locked up forever, either in a high security prison or in a mental institution.

But I said it before already, having harsher prisons or softer prisons makes no difference to the crime rate. Let me quote -

When Finland took a hard-line approach, its crime trends were identical to those of its liberal neighbours. And when it switched to a liberal system its trends continued in line with its neighbours. Ultimately, Finland's choices about how to punish crime had little or no effect on the crime rate.

Mr. Lappi-Seppala produces a chart that compares the number of robberies in Finland with the average sentence given for that crime. In the decade before 1965, judges cut the length of the average robbery sentence in half with no effect on the number of robberies. Then from 1965 to 1990, the sentences for robbery stayed about the same -- while robberies first grew by five times, then dropped by a quarter, then doubled, then dropped by almost half again. There is simply no correlation between the punishment inflicted and the number of robberies.

Juvenile crime is another case in point. The astonishingly liberal approach Finland implemented for juvenile crime -- no one under 15 can be charged, and offenders between 15 and 21 are rarely incarcerated -- did not spark an increase in juvenile crime. Over the last 20 years, the proportion of crime for which young offenders are responsible has even declined.

After more than 30 years, the Finnish experiment has produced clear conclusions: High incarceration rates and tough prison conditions do not control crime. They are unnecessary. If a nation wishes, it can send few offenders to prison, and make those prisons humane, without sacrificing the public's safety.

For those interested in building a less punitive society, the benefits of such an approach are obvious. But there are also more quantifiable returns.

Mr. Lappi-Seppala notes that, by one estimate, Finland's smaller prison population has saved the country's taxpayers $200 million over the last 20 years.

 

[highhopes19]

I watched LIFERS and know fact, that one of those prisoners was moved into the massive cell and GIVEN the tv, birds, games console etc if he agreed to be filmed, They found it hard to get prisoners willing to appear on TV, they also filmed for about a year as nothing was happening, no violence, etc the worse they got was someone getting caught with hooch in their cell.
Most lifers are not interested in causing trouble because it goes on their record and there is little chance they will get released.
It was totally obvious that some of these prisoners were mentally ill and their were prisoners who just snapped and deeply regretted it, there are prisoners who didnt intend to kill but are now living with their mistake. Its also highley unlikely long term prisoners will reoffend once out of prison compared to short term prisoners

EVERY prisoners situtation is different

in the UK we have 4 different cat prisons

A CAT prisons for VERY high risk prisoners - locked up 23 hours a day and probably highley unlikely to be released
B CAT prisons for high risk prisoners serving long life sentances= these were the prisoners on the programme
C CAT prisons for medium risk prisoners
D CAT prisons/open prison for low risk priosners

EVERY stage the rules regulations are tightened up, yes people can smuggle all sorts in to the D cat prisons/open prisons but its extreamly hard to smuggle anything in to ABC prisons and most things that do get smuggled in are by corrupt prison officers.

It really annoys me that people sit back and judge so easily and take TV programmes and other media as gospel, there is a lot more to it.

Prisoners who do say its easy and keep returning to prison are most likely in the lower cat prisons doing shorter sentences or prisoners who say they prefer prison to being outside, must have a very terrible life on the outside.

It definitley about rehabilitation and giving them the tools to get educated and go through councelling so they are able to get a job and cope once released.


im not denying their are people that shouldnt be released and those people probably wont be but i'm sorry every prisoner is different and has a different story.

If they've killed someone they shouldn't be given a second chance I don't think. If they've snapped once they could easily snap again.

Not sure if I'd wanna know the full story if they'd hurt someone would I wanna share society with them nope not at all!


I've not just used the programme or the media as examples of pure scum! By FACT and things that I personally have experienced first hand

And also when it watched the programme there was a man at the beginning saying that he would easily kill the 2 prison guards searching his bags as he's never getting out so has nothing to lose .

ACTUALLY he said i have been given life with no parole, i will die in prison so i could kill these two prisoner officers right now if i want to, i dont want to, but i could, i am never getting out of prison so i have nothing to loose what is to stop others like me doing it..?

he was making a point a very valid point![/QUOTE

sorry I didn't watch and learn the show word for word like you have obviously.

It's a good job scum like that never will be released and will be left to rot! and I hope their victims family weren't watching this programme, whilst their loved one is 6 feet under they are playing their Xbox still seeing their family...


Why their family would still want to see a metering family I'll never know each to their own

well your version was daily mail ish.


i dont actually think prisoners should be allowed sex, the whole thing is just so much more complex and to hear such things than oh prisoners are scum treat them like animals let them rot etc ...........just i dont have the words.

There are 100% prisoners that should and will not be realeased and shouldnt be and i wouldnt want them to be but there are also prisoners that can be rehabilated and deserve a second chance, its not all black and white ............and with people like that in society they have no chance, all i think is each prisoner should be treated differently depending on the circumstance.

NO ONE knows how they will 100% react or feel until they are in that situation, its easy to sit back and judge so quickly on different situations.

One of my neighbours stabbed a girl when she was a teenager over a boy,(one of the after school fights) this was about 20 odd years ago ish, i knew the girl that died she was a neighbour of ours in the area i grew up we knew the family, when i found out the person who did it was now my neighbour (in a different area) it was a bit of a shock, she did her time, and obviously did a really really really stupid thing..she hasnt commited any crimes since and deeply regrets what she has done and is trying to get on with her life the best she can...she is nearly 40 now and obviously doesnt think or act like teenagers do...and its hard for people like her with some people attitudes....... yes someone died and someone i knew, and the family have lost a daughter etc etc and i know how hard that is ......(my uncle was knocked over and killed by a careless driver applying lipstick whilst driving at a stupid speed.......imo no better than any other person who unintentionally kills someone but she walked free. )


lost my train of thought..............urmmm......what i'm trying to say really is that people change people grow up, people do stupid things.............i'm not denying some people are just evil and need to be locked up forever but NOT ALL situations are like that AND i also 100% empathise with the victims family side of things, i just dont think it helps society in the long run with the whole eye for eye sort of attitude, and prisoners families have a real tough time to and i wouldnt wish that situation on anyone either.

I didn't say all prisoners, I said the ones that murder people, peodophiles and rapists who are a danger to our children! Those should be left to rot and that sort are scum! What else is there to call that sort of human being .

I don't care how much rehabilitation those sorts of criminals I've mentioned above may of had would you trust them! I certainly wouldnt I wouldn't even consider it for a second.

 

[smelly07]

serial murderers, serial rapists yes i agree with but its highly unlikely these sort of people are ever released anyway and peodophiles well thats a different story, they arent wired right and a huge risk to put back out in to society x

 

[highhopes19]

serial murderers, serial rapists yes i agree with but its highly unlikely these sort of people are ever released anyway and peodophiles well thats a different story, they arent wired right and a huge risk to put back out in to society x

There the ones I'm on about I wasn't sure how to spell Serial every time I did try the iPad turned it to cereal

Xxx

 

[smelly07]

oh okay.... i agree in those circumstances.x

 

[JASMAK]

Thats who I am talking about...the cereal ones.

 

[highhopes19]

Thats who I am talking about...the cereal ones.

Stupid iPad, every word I write it changes it

 

[Tasha]

I want coco pops now.

 

[JASMAK]

Thats who I am talking about...the cereal ones.

Stupid iPad, every word I write it changes it

I turned my auto correct off, but I find it annoying to type on.

 

[smelly07]

LMAO

 

[Nibblenic]

Those cereal killers, wont somebody think of the wholegrain!

 

[smelly07]

The cereal has killed this thread!

 

[Natsku]

Cereal does things like that....

I actually just found out that the cousin of the guy I'm seeing is in prison for murder. I would want him to be locked up for a good while, not so much because of the murder (it was sort of self-defence) but because he apparently goes around giving girls Hep C on purpose! Thats a fucked up person!

 

[chuck]

LOL just stumbled across this thread I do love a good derailed thread.

Back to the point at hand though people are very quick to derogate the prison system however what you dont stop to think about is the basic purpose of a prison.

A prison doesn't exist simply to keep a criminal away from society its first purpose is supposed to be rehabilitation. In most prisons the inmates are locked in their cells up to 23 hours a day.

Can you imagine what the offenders would exit prison like if they were in fact just left in their cells without access to literature, television, games consoles?

Also that inmates are not just given these items, they have to choose to work in order to buy their 'luxuries', they do menial boring repetitive work for less than £12 a week and it takes a long time to earn enough to 'buy' these things for their cell.

Access to education, family days, entertainment and gyms etc are all things that exist i order to try and reduce reoffending not by breaking a persons mind and terrify them into not reoffending but by re-education.

I dont agree that offenders should have conjugal visits but if you really look into the prison service at all you;ll soon realise that even with television etc prison is still a punishment that you cannot understand unless you have been there.

 

[JASMAK]

LOL just stumbled across this thread I do love a good derailed thread.

Back to the point at hand though people are very quick to derogate the prison system however what you dont stop to think about is the basic purpose of a prison.

A prison doesn't exist simply to keep a criminal away from society its first purpose is supposed to be rehabilitation. In most prisons the inmates are locked in their cells up to 23 hours a day.

Can you imagine what the offenders would exit prison like if they were in fact just left in their cells without access to literature, television, games consoles?

Also that inmates are not just given these items, they have to choose to work in order to buy their 'luxuries', they do menial boring repetitive work for less than £12 a week and it takes a long time to earn enough to 'buy' these things for their cell.

Access to education, family days, entertainment and gyms etc are all things that exist i order to try and reduce reoffending not by breaking a persons mind and terrify them into not reoffending but by re-education.

I dont agree that offenders should have conjugal visits but if you really look into the prison service at all you;ll soon realise that even with television etc prison is still a punishment that you cannot understand unless you have been there.

We aren't talking about tv and game consoles tho! We are talking about sex!! They are different. If we want to talk about game consoles...that is a whole nother bag o worms....like, would we wan a murderer playing gun games...getting his thrills while in prison? See...you can't compare...one is to pass the time...masturbate all they want...but visits to have sex from the outside has nothing to do with rehab or paying for a crime. It's completely unecessary....

 

[Tasha]

LOL just stumbled across this thread I do love a good derailed thread.

Back to the point at hand though people are very quick to derogate the prison system however what you dont stop to think about is the basic purpose of a prison.

A prison doesn't exist simply to keep a criminal away from society its first purpose is supposed to be rehabilitation. In most prisons the inmates are locked in their cells up to 23 hours a day.

Can you imagine what the offenders would exit prison like if they were in fact just left in their cells without access to literature, television, games consoles?

Also that inmates are not just given these items, they have to choose to work in order to buy their 'luxuries', they do menial boring repetitive work for less than £12 a week and it takes a long time to earn enough to 'buy' these things for their cell.

Access to education, family days, entertainment and gyms etc are all things that exist i order to try and reduce reoffending not by breaking a persons mind and terrify them into not reoffending but by re-education.

I dont agree that offenders should have conjugal visits but if you really look into the prison service at all you;ll soon realise that even with television etc prison is still a punishment that you cannot understand unless you have been there.

We aren't talking about tv and game consoles tho! We are talking about sex!! They are different. If we want to talk about game consoles...that is a whole nother bag o worms....like, would we wan a murderer playing gun games...getting his thrills while in prison? See...you can't compare...one is to pass the time...masturbate all they want...but visits to have sex from the outside has nothing to do with rehab or paying for a crime. It's completely unecessary....

the red word gives away what you've been searching

I imagine the types of games would be controlled, as would who is allowed to play them.