Occupy Wall Street - revolution? Or just another protest?

[alaskagrown]

I don't see why people seem to think that disagreeing with the greed of bankers and the unfairness of society means that you shouldn't get to go to Starbucks or own a phone. No one's saying that, what many of the protesters and supporters are saying is that it's not right that the 'normal' member of society is having to deal with and pay for the actions of an elite. Only last week it was announced that the top bosses in the UK awarded themselves an average payrise of 49% this year. In the mean time, the average worker is getting a pay freeze.

This is what people are angry about. This is what I'm angry about.

Haha, I watched this video of this guy interviewing the kids at Occupy Wall Street. He asked, "So, why are you here? What's your motivation?"
One girl replied, "Well, after a week of studying for finals I'm so sick of 'the institution' that I came here to..you know..relax and have a good time. F*** the institution."
Another said, "Well, I wanted to see how big it was."

Who interviewed them? Mainstream media like to interview the idiots and those that are just jumping on the bandwagon. They are mostly heavily connected to the government so they aren't going to interview those that make people realise they have a good point, are they?

The government (and therefore the media) want everyone to think it is a load of lazy spongers moaning about college fees/not having jobs. It isn't.

Interestingly, in the UK, protesters are camped outside St Paul's Cathedral. At first they were trying to make things difficult and looking into getting them evicted. They have now changed their minds and are supporting them, at the risk of losing funding for some big corporations.

It was another college kid who interviewed them.

 

[Sarahkka]

I heard a really great comment from someone who isn't part of the occupation, but who initially marched to support it. She was on a radio phone-in program and she said that she was bitterly disappointed that the initial energy in the western Canada Occupy camps had been about questioning our "broken economic system", as she called it, but had frittered into so many directions that no one now seems able to articulate what they are camping out in various city parks for.
Too bad, because I think there would have been a lot of support if the initial movement had been able to formulate some concrete demands.
What changes exactly need to happen to make things more equal?

I think the Occupy movement has been better represented in other places, but in Vancouver and Calgary, I've been shocked (and disappointed) by how plain silly the leaders sounded.

Having said that, I don't think we're talking about real textbook definition capitalism anymore. Our current world system is much closer to monopoly capitalism (in which one or two massive corporations swallow everything else). Then we get almost no choice market-wise, which is contrary to the competition that capitalism aims to offer. I think we've been there for a few decades.
And we are now at the point at which the comfortable middle class is getting squeezed hard. Right now, many are dropping down to the working poor class. Because of unfair policies and corrupt governments and corporations. That's why people are protesting. And remember that a lot of people who have been marching and supporting the Occupy movement are gainfully employed.

One last thing:
the analogy of GPA redistribution to wealth redistribution is inaccurate in several ways. The only way that I would compare them is that for both grades and income, you are assuming that everyone starts on an equal playing field. They don't. Poverty is a very difficult thing to overcome, and it affects your access to everything from education to improve your income-earning potential to your access to things like credit, so that you can raise the capital necessary to invest in yourself, business ventures, etc. Someone from a comfortable middle-class background often underestimates the advantages that a secure upbringing offers.

 

[patch2006uk]

Totally agree about the monopolies being the problem rather than capitalism. No one benefits if a few companies are allowed to operate with barely any competition!

 

[deafgal]

In some cases, it's good not to have too many competitions. electrity and telephone company are one example. too many competitions in one area would bad (wiring, dams,etc).

 

[patch2006uk]

In some cases, it's good not to have too many competitions. electrity and telephone company are one example. too many competitions in one area would bad (wiring, dams,etc).

I think industry standards are good, so everyone works to the same basic system, but monopolies just lead to higher prices and worse service standards.

 

[BlackBerry25]

I have been pretty involved in it here, and it seems like there is a lot of misinformation floating around, because a lot of people only know what is said on mainstream media.

Anyways, in my city, we have one of the richest men in Canada. The 1 percent. He wants to build an arena to house his hockey team. We already have an arena for one thing, and he is the 17th richest guy in the country. Surely he can get a loan. No, instead he wants us to pay for this arena, that will essentially be another business for him and he will soley profit off of. Not the city. Then I pick up the newspaper today and we are having huge cutbacks in Edmonton, in things that effect all of us, such as snow removal.

Here is a good flyer about who is part of the movement in my part of the world:
https://occupyedmonton.org/resources/pamphlets/occupy-pamphlet.pdf

 

[patch2006uk]

From the flyer

"Concerned people in Edmonton, throughout Alberta, and all across Canada are organizing their own peace- ful occupations, to stand in support
of demonstrators in New York, and to demand an end to the corruption and economic injustice which has distorted our democratic processes. We are the 99%, and we’re not going away until we win. PLEASE JOIN US!"

Ok, so that's fair enough. I don't think anyone would argue with those aims. Who wants economic injustice? However, they're just there voicing the problem. No-one has a decent solution, or anything even remotely resembling a decent solution. So they're not going to get anywhere by sitting in tents complaining. If they're not going to move on until economic justice is ended, they're going to be there a very long time!

 

[Sarahkka]

I agree - it's too vague. I like the part where we're talking about the fact that no one has been held responsible for the 2008 crisis or where the connection is being made between corporate corruption and government collusion. Start there! Generate some demands - something concrete that can be done.
But when it goes on to say that nothing about the system works and that we need a new type of assembly (complete with "spirit fingers"????!!), well.... now we're back in the realm of incredibly vague. And it just becomes a lot of talk.

It's frustrating - there was initially a lot of support for this movement. I think it could have done some really great things. Not so sure now.

Wendy - I heard some of the city hall stuff on that arena project. Unbelievable.

 

[deafgal]

I don't really like stock market. My husband work for a company who decided to go public. Ever since, they have been experimenting and even splitting the company. They hire a new CEO to improve the company but I think his interests is to Make himself look good as a CEO, not caring the long term effect he could cause in the company (he hired someone who felt the company would be more profittable if they shut down depts where my husband used to be in, and sent it overseas). I wouldn't be surprised if they ever decided to sell the company. The CEO don't have to worry about any of those things because he'll always be a CEO for a company.

 

[BlackBerry25]

From the flyer

"Concerned people in Edmonton, throughout Alberta, and all across Canada are organizing their own peace- ful occupations, to stand in support
of demonstrators in New York, and to demand an end to the corruption and economic injustice which has distorted our democratic processes. We are the 99%, and we’re not going away until we win. PLEASE JOIN US!"

Ok, so that's fair enough. I don't think anyone would argue with those aims. Who wants economic injustice? However, they're just there voicing the problem. No-one has a decent solution, or anything even remotely resembling a decent solution. So they're not going to get anywhere by sitting in tents complaining. If they're not going to move on until economic justice is ended, they're going to be there a very long time!

The 1% want economic injustice.

And it is good that people are voicing their concerns. Sure, we may not have all the solutions, but the governments should be representing the people and trying to come up with solutions. Not just shooting down things such as the Robin Hood tax. No one is just sitting in a tent. We have general assemblies nightly, and we have had other events to discuss and demand change. Here in Canada, we have so much potential, and it is being taken away from us. I don't want my daughter to be a slave to her education debt. I don't want her to have shitty health care. I don't want her to have no collective bargaining rights at her job. Canada is going down the shitter instead of getting better.

 

[BlackBerry25]

Well the actual Occupy movement in the States, isn't going anywhere. I believe it will be around for a LONG time.

 

[patch2006uk]

From the flyer

"Concerned people in Edmonton, throughout Alberta, and all across Canada are organizing their own peace- ful occupations, to stand in support
of demonstrators in New York, and to demand an end to the corruption and economic injustice which has distorted our democratic processes. We are the 99%, and we’re not going away until we win. PLEASE JOIN US!"

Ok, so that's fair enough. I don't think anyone would argue with those aims. Who wants economic injustice? However, they're just there voicing the problem. No-one has a decent solution, or anything even remotely resembling a decent solution. So they're not going to get anywhere by sitting in tents complaining. If they're not going to move on until economic justice is ended, they're going to be there a very long time!

The 1% want economic injustice.

And it is good that people are voicing their concerns. Sure, we may not have all the solutions, but the governments should be representing the people and trying to come up with solutions. Not just shooting down things such as the Robin Hood tax. No one is just sitting in a tent. We have general assemblies nightly, and we have had other events to discuss and demand change. Here in Canada, we have so much potential, and it is being taken away from us. I don't want my daughter to be a slave to her education debt. I don't want her to have shitty health care. I don't want her to have no collective bargaining rights at her job. Canada is going down the shitter instead of getting better.

But they also want people to be able to afford their products and buy their services. Capitalism doesn't actually want people to live in poverty, as then growth stalls.

If the occupy protests prove anything, it's that people don't like anyone who's wealthier than them, especially if they're deemed to have not worked hard enough to have earned it fair and square. That's fair enough, but what is the point in 'occupying' public spaces for an indefinite length of time, with no aims set out or demands made?

I'm not the biggest fan of direct action - I think it demonstrates incredibly naivety regarding how the world works. However, I support people who want to raise their voices and be heard. I just don't know that occupy actually has a voice other than a general 'grr'

 

[Sarahkka]

Blackberry, I agree that discussion and trying to come up with solutions (be it in a tent or not) is far more constructive than sitting around complaining about things. I do honour that (even if spirit fingers are involved! ). I think there is value even in raising awareness.

 

[deafgal]

I don't think they would really care if people can afford or not. Unions formed for a reason(and more) and now we have laws to protect the workers. people worked very hard because they barely could afford anything.

if growth stall, they would just move to another country (especially countries who are not as strict about how they treat their workers). and they have already done so.

 

[Lydiarose]

I think its brilliant what there doing,i wish i could join them!


Its amazing people are finally standing up against the corruptness of the world.

Sadly though its highly unlikely to make any difference,unless everyone did the same which is never going to happen as people are too for lack of a better word "brainwashed"

Me and OH were talking about this last night,and he said if world war 3 does happen (looks like its on its way!) he would loose his life to stand up for what he believes in,no doubt about it.

 

[BlackBerry25]

From the flyer

"Concerned people in Edmonton, throughout Alberta, and all across Canada are organizing their own peace- ful occupations, to stand in support
of demonstrators in New York, and to demand an end to the corruption and economic injustice which has distorted our democratic processes. We are the 99%, and we’re not going away until we win. PLEASE JOIN US!"

Ok, so that's fair enough. I don't think anyone would argue with those aims. Who wants economic injustice? However, they're just there voicing the problem. No-one has a decent solution, or anything even remotely resembling a decent solution. So they're not going to get anywhere by sitting in tents complaining. If they're not going to move on until economic justice is ended, they're going to be there a very long time!

The 1% want economic injustice.

And it is good that people are voicing their concerns. Sure, we may not have all the solutions, but the governments should be representing the people and trying to come up with solutions. Not just shooting down things such as the Robin Hood tax. No one is just sitting in a tent. We have general assemblies nightly, and we have had other events to discuss and demand change. Here in Canada, we have so much potential, and it is being taken away from us. I don't want my daughter to be a slave to her education debt. I don't want her to have shitty health care. I don't want her to have no collective bargaining rights at her job. Canada is going down the shitter instead of getting better.

But they also want people to be able to afford their products and buy their services. Capitalism doesn't actually want people to live in poverty, as then growth stalls.

If the occupy protests prove anything, it's that people don't like anyone who's wealthier than them, especially if they're deemed to have not worked hard enough to have earned it fair and square. That's fair enough, but what is the point in 'occupying' public spaces for an indefinite length of time, with no aims set out or demands made?

I'm not the biggest fan of direct action - I think it demonstrates incredibly naivety regarding how the world works. However, I support people who want to raise their voices and be heard. I just don't know that occupy actually has a voice other than a general 'grr'

Actually, they profit off of people being poor.
The biggest banks are profiting by administering public programs like food stamps and unemployment insurance, to the detriment of taxpayers and those who need such programs to get by. For instance, “U.S. Bancorp, which provides unemployment benefit debit cards, made $357 million in revenue in the division that handles the cards. That amount is more than one-fourth of its total revenue.” JP Morgan, meanwhile, “made $5.47 billion in net revenue for most of last year in the division that handles food stamp cards, and it was up two percent is the last three months of the year.” As Covert summed up, “big banks are making a tidy profit by acting as middlemen for what should be publicly provided services.”
https://rt.com/usa/news/jpmorgan-profiting-hungry-americans-usa/

That is just one example.

 

[BlackBerry25]

Here are some great pictures:

https://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2011/10/occupy-wall-street-spreads-worldwide/100171/

 

[patch2006uk]

From the flyer

"Concerned people in Edmonton, throughout Alberta, and all across Canada are organizing their own peace- ful occupations, to stand in support
of demonstrators in New York, and to demand an end to the corruption and economic injustice which has distorted our democratic processes. We are the 99%, and we’re not going away until we win. PLEASE JOIN US!"

Ok, so that's fair enough. I don't think anyone would argue with those aims. Who wants economic injustice? However, they're just there voicing the problem. No-one has a decent solution, or anything even remotely resembling a decent solution. So they're not going to get anywhere by sitting in tents complaining. If they're not going to move on until economic justice is ended, they're going to be there a very long time!

The 1% want economic injustice.

And it is good that people are voicing their concerns. Sure, we may not have all the solutions, but the governments should be representing the people and trying to come up with solutions. Not just shooting down things such as the Robin Hood tax. No one is just sitting in a tent. We have general assemblies nightly, and we have had other events to discuss and demand change. Here in Canada, we have so much potential, and it is being taken away from us. I don't want my daughter to be a slave to her education debt. I don't want her to have shitty health care. I don't want her to have no collective bargaining rights at her job. Canada is going down the shitter instead of getting better.

But they also want people to be able to afford their products and buy their services. Capitalism doesn't actually want people to live in poverty, as then growth stalls.

If the occupy protests prove anything, it's that people don't like anyone who's wealthier than them, especially if they're deemed to have not worked hard enough to have earned it fair and square. That's fair enough, but what is the point in 'occupying' public spaces for an indefinite length of time, with no aims set out or demands made?

I'm not the biggest fan of direct action - I think it demonstrates incredibly naivety regarding how the world works. However, I support people who want to raise their voices and be heard. I just don't know that occupy actually has a voice other than a general 'grr'

Actually, they profit off of people being poor.
The biggest banks are profiting by administering public programs like food stamps and unemployment insurance, to the detriment of taxpayers and those who need such programs to get by. For instance, “U.S. Bancorp, which provides unemployment benefit debit cards, made $357 million in revenue in the division that handles the cards. That amount is more than one-fourth of its total revenue.” JP Morgan, meanwhile, “made $5.47 billion in net revenue for most of last year in the division that handles food stamp cards, and it was up two percent is the last three months of the year.” As Covert summed up, “big banks are making a tidy profit by acting as middlemen for what should be publicly provided services.”
https://rt.com/usa/news/jpmorgan-profiting-hungry-americans-usa/

That is just one example.

Granted occasional private companies will benefit, but companies that need people to spend need people to have disposable income. Even banks need people to have income to save or to borrow against.

 

[Pramaholic86]

Just another bandwagon. And a sign of the times!

 

[Dopeyjopey]

From the flyer

"Concerned people in Edmonton, throughout Alberta, and all across Canada are organizing their own peace- ful occupations, to stand in support
of demonstrators in New York, and to demand an end to the corruption and economic injustice which has distorted our democratic processes. We are the 99%, and we’re not going away until we win. PLEASE JOIN US!"

Ok, so that's fair enough. I don't think anyone would argue with those aims. Who wants economic injustice? However, they're just there voicing the problem. No-one has a decent solution, or anything even remotely resembling a decent solution. So they're not going to get anywhere by sitting in tents complaining. If they're not going to move on until economic justice is ended, they're going to be there a very long time!

The 1% want economic injustice.

And it is good that people are voicing their concerns. Sure, we may not have all the solutions, but the governments should be representing the people and trying to come up with solutions. Not just shooting down things such as the Robin Hood tax. No one is just sitting in a tent. We have general assemblies nightly, and we have had other events to discuss and demand change. Here in Canada, we have so much potential, and it is being taken away from us. I don't want my daughter to be a slave to her education debt. I don't want her to have shitty health care. I don't want her to have no collective bargaining rights at her job. Canada is going down the shitter instead of getting better.

But they also want people to be able to afford their products and buy their services. Capitalism doesn't actually want people to live in poverty, as then growth stalls.

If the occupy protests prove anything, it's that people don't like anyone who's wealthier than them, especially if they're deemed to have not worked hard enough to have earned it fair and square. That's fair enough, but what is the point in 'occupying' public spaces for an indefinite length of time, with no aims set out or demands made?

I'm not the biggest fan of direct action - I think it demonstrates incredibly naivety regarding how the world works. However, I support people who want to raise their voices and be heard. I just don't know that occupy actually has a voice other than a general 'grr'

Actually, they profit off of people being poor.
The biggest banks are profiting by administering public programs like food stamps and unemployment insurance, to the detriment of taxpayers and those who need such programs to get by. For instance, “U.S. Bancorp, which provides unemployment benefit debit cards, made $357 million in revenue in the division that handles the cards. That amount is more than one-fourth of its total revenue.” JP Morgan, meanwhile, “made $5.47 billion in net revenue for most of last year in the division that handles food stamp cards, and it was up two percent is the last three months of the year.” As Covert summed up, “big banks are making a tidy profit by acting as middlemen for what should be publicly provided services.”
https://rt.com/usa/news/jpmorgan-profiting-hungry-americans-usa/

That is just one example.

Granted occasional private companies will benefit, but companies that need people to spend need people to have disposable income. Even banks need people to have income to save or to borrow against.

I don't see it that way. Every time someone is charged interest, fined for being overdrawn or missing a payment, it creates money. Therefore debt is good. Especially as money doesn't exist but debt does