Occupy Wall Street - revolution? Or just another protest?

[alaskagrown]

I think some of their demands are absolutely ridiculous and hypocritical.

For example, forgive college debt? BS! I chose to attend a mediocre college where I can work 48 hours a week to PAY for my OWN college education. If my peers are heading off to some fancy out-of-state school to major in something like poetry or history, wind up $80k in debt, and can't find a top paying job straight out of college, it's their own damned faults. Why weren't these kids working while they were in college? Or choosing a less expensive college to attend? I have quite a few friends who I graduated with in high school who are majoring in art and liberal arts...at some 10k/year out-of-state school. God have mercy on them when they graduate.

Also..down with "evil corporations?" Serious? Guess where your iPhone comes from. Steve Jobs, a capitalist, owned Apple, a giant corporation.

These people are having sex in sleeping bags in the street and defecating on police cars. They are unorganized. Like a country without a leader, or a team without uniforms. Everyone is heading in different directions, hoping they'll end up at the finish point together. Are they just protesting their feelings? I can't take those types of people seriously.

I work hard, pay my taxes, I don't expect handouts and freebies from the government, and I'm proud.

these days, it is either McDonald or college. living off of minimum wage while trying to follow every laws out there and be a good citizen (especially when you don't want them to call the law or social service on you so you need to pay rent, food, taxes, etc.) AND keeping up with the society is not easy. people can't get decent jobs these days without competing with those with college education. I afraid education have became a higher standard. Just like how kindergarten became a standard or even high school.

I disagree. I don't think it's all or nothing. I am in my early 20's, and I believe that this age group was raised to think "if I go to college, I'm going to earn tons of money." WRONG. You do not have to go to college to earn a decent wage. It's called starting from the bottom and working your way up - something completely foreign to my generation. I think my generation is all about instant gratification.
Many are not taught fiscal responsibility. First of all, I believe that all high school students intending to go to college should be taught some sort of finance class, including the risks of taking out loans. I think 18 year olds are not thinking ahead when they take out these huge loans to attend fancy out-of-state colleges. There are alternatives - in-state schools, community colleges, working full-time while attending college. Of course, it's not the glitz and glam we see college kids doing in the movies, but by taking the less appealing route these kids can easily graduate without massive student loans and have a decent work history by the time they graduate.
I chose an in-state college, pay my own tuition, work two jobs, and will be graduating with a huge surplus of money in my pocket.
Where has the work ethic gone?!

 

[Sarahkka]

alaskagrown - I absolutely agree with you about needing some serious financial education in our society. While I think predatory lending needs to be stopped, I also think that at end of the day, the consumer is personally responsible for what they borrow.
However, I also think that a university/college education is rapidly becoming out of the reach of the average person. And education is something that should be valued highly, promoted, supported, made accessible - so that individual citizens of a country have the opportunity to reach their full potential. Not to be elitist, but not all education is equal. If you are really passionate about a certain filed and are offered a place in a really good program, I don't think you should have to compromise and go to whatever is available close by. But the cost of the education should not be so prohibitively high that you are looking at a lifetime of debt to pay off.

As for the original post, I have to admit that I am kind of going back and forth on what I think of the Occupy movement. I think the middle class is watching their wealth evaporate while seeing some serious fat cats get a lot fatter. I think the working poor are beyond fed up of busting their asses and never being able to get ahead. I understand the anger, but I do think it's going to be a problem when the direction(s) are so spread out. The movement needs a bit more focus to be really effective, I think. But I think this is a good start for so many who are feeling so disenfranchised to feel like they are maybe getting just a little bit of power back.

 

[PitaKat]

I understand the anger, but I do think it's going to be a problem when the direction(s) are so spread out. The movement needs a bit more focus to be really effective, I think.

I think so too.


I definitely bought into the way of thinking of "If you go to college, you WILL be able to find a good job! The jobs are only available to degree-holders now!"

I went to an in-state school and got a partial scholarship. But when I graduated, oops, no one wanted to hire me! Turns out that experience is what companies REALLY value!

I worked at Walmart for almost a year because I could not find another job, despite filling out job applications every week. Eventually I got a job at a previous employer, but now I feel really dumb for leaving that job to go back to school to get a degree that isn't helping me, and taking on debt!

I actually paid off the last of my student loans this month

I think students need to be better educated about the seriousness of going to college. There are other options, and they need to be told that. College is not a place to find yourself or figure out what you want to do with your life, because it's costing you a lot of money to be there! I think you should only go to college if you know what you want to do as a career and you need the degree to be successful, and you have a plan to pay for it!

I know people who have been carrying their student loans for 25, 30 years. That is not a plan!

Sorry this post is so long. I got on a roll

 

[alaskagrown]

alaskagrown - I absolutely agree with you about needing some serious financial education in our society. While I think predatory lending needs to be stopped, I also think that at end of the day, the consumer is personally responsible for what they borrow.
However, I also think that a university/college education is rapidly becoming out of the reach of the average person. And education is something that should be valued highly, promoted, supported, made accessible - so that individual citizens of a country have the opportunity to reach their full potential. Not to be elitist, but not all education is equal. If you are really passionate about a certain filed and are offered a place in a really good program, I don't think you should have to compromise and go to whatever is available close by. But the cost of the education should not be so prohibitively high that you are looking at a lifetime of debt to pay off.

As for the original post, I have to admit that I am kind of going back and forth on what I think of the Occupy movement. I think the middle class is watching their wealth evaporate while seeing some serious fat cats get a lot fatter. I think the working poor are beyond fed up of busting their asses and never being able to get ahead. I understand the anger, but I do think it's going to be a problem when the direction(s) are so spread out. The movement needs a bit more focus to be really effective, I think. But I think this is a good start for so many who are feeling so disenfranchised to feel like they are maybe getting just a little bit of power back.

Sigh..If only higher education was free The only problem is who will pay for the upkeep of the University, pay of the staff, pay for lab materials, utilities, pay for professors to go on sabbatical, pay for this pay for that.

The answer? Tax payers would. And, if only 53% of Americans pay their taxes... :S I doubt many of those college students protesting outside Wall Street have paid any taxes. I also don't think simply making the rich pay their taxes in full will solve our problem either. It's a lot more complicated than that.

Most of my friends in college out of state have never worked a day in their lives. Their parents are taking out loans to pay for their children's education..or even taking money out of their retirement. I think parents coddle their children too much and that's why 20 year olds don't know how to manage their money.

 

[alaskagrown]

I understand the anger, but I do think it's going to be a problem when the direction(s) are so spread out. The movement needs a bit more focus to be really effective, I think.

I think so too.


I definitely bought into the way of thinking of "If you go to college, you WILL be able to find a good job! The jobs are only available to degree-holders now!"

I went to an in-state school and got a partial scholarship. But when I graduated, oops, no one wanted to hire me! Turns out that experience is what companies REALLY value!

I worked at Walmart for almost a year because I could not find another job, despite filling out job applications every week. Eventually I got a job at a previous employer, but now I feel really dumb for leaving that job to go back to school to get a degree that isn't helping me, and taking on debt!

I actually paid off the last of my student loans this month

I think students need to be better educated about the seriousness of going to college. There are other options, and they need to be told that. College is not a place to find yourself or figure out what you want to do with your life, because it's costing you a lot of money to be there! I think you should only go to college if you know what you want to do as a career and you need the degree to be successful, and you have a plan to pay for it!

I know people who have been carrying their student loans for 25, 30 years. That is not a plan!

Sorry this post is so long. I got on a roll

Wholeheartedly agree with you!

 

[deafgal]

they want both degree and experience. you can have all the experiences, but completing with someone who have both is not going to be easy. my brother and few of my old friends only have an high school diploma, no trade school or anything, and most of them work in stores (cashiers, stock,etc)

 

[deafgal]

alaskagrown - I absolutely agree with you about needing some serious financial education in our society. While I think predatory lending needs to be stopped, I also think that at end of the day, the consumer is personally responsible for what they borrow.
However, I also think that a university/college education is rapidly becoming out of the reach of the average person. And education is something that should be valued highly, promoted, supported, made accessible - so that individual citizens of a country have the opportunity to reach their full potential. Not to be elitist, but not all education is equal. If you are really passionate about a certain filed and are offered a place in a really good program, I don't think you should have to compromise and go to whatever is available close by. But the cost of the education should not be so prohibitively high that you are looking at a lifetime of debt to pay off.

As for the original post, I have to admit that I am kind of going back and forth on what I think of the Occupy movement. I think the middle class is watching their wealth evaporate while seeing some serious fat cats get a lot fatter. I think the working poor are beyond fed up of busting their asses and never being able to get ahead. I understand the anger, but I do think it's going to be a problem when the direction(s) are so spread out. The movement needs a bit more focus to be really effective, I think. But I think this is a good start for so many who are feeling so disenfranchised to feel like they are maybe getting just a little bit of power back.

Sigh..If only higher education was free The only problem is who will pay for the upkeep of the University, pay of the staff, pay for lab materials, utilities, pay for professors to go on sabbatical, pay for this pay for that.

The answer? Tax payers would. And, if only 53% of Americans pay their taxes... :S I doubt many of those college students protesting outside Wall Street have paid any taxes. I also don't think simply making the rich pay their taxes in full will solve our problem either. It's a lot more complicated than that.

Most of my friends in college out of state have never worked a day in their lives. Their parents are taking out loans to pay for their children's education..or even taking money out of their retirement. I think parents coddle their children too much and that's why 20 year olds don't know how tol manage their money.

I was told many professors are in those protests

 

[indy and lara]

I really am not sure why it is that the bankers alone are the target of all of this. I was in Edinburgh today and there is a small camp set up in one of the gardens in the city centre. They have signs saying that the bankers don't have to rule the world but I am really not sure about this. In private, profit making banks, I don't think that the population as a whole have the right to demand that they don't pay bonuses to their staff as these are from a private source of income. In publically funded institutions as far as I am concerned we do have a right to do this.

People these days DO seem to think that they deserve good salaries staight out of uni. OH has been lecturing and was quite taken aback to hear the students say that they expect to be paid around £30k just out of uni and feel that is what they are worth- yet they have no workbased experience in their field. I don't think that uni should just be for those on more vocational or direct career related courses such as medicine or engineering. If this was the case we would end up in 20 years with no historians, no geographers and so on. There is nothing wrong with going to university to 'find yourself' or for the love of learning as long as you are aware that at the other end you may have a considerable debt.

 

[Dopeyjopey]

I really am not sure why it is that the bankers alone are the target of all of this. I was in Edinburgh today and there is a small camp set up in one of the gardens in the city centre. They have signs saying that the bankers don't have to rule the world but I am really not sure about this. In private, profit making banks, I don't think that the population as a whole have the right to demand that they don't pay bonuses to their staff as these are from a private source of income. In publically funded institutions as far as I am concerned we do have a right to do this.

People these days DO seem to think that they deserve good salaries staight out of uni. OH has been lecturing and was quite taken aback to hear the students say that they expect to be paid around £30k just out of uni and feel that is what they are worth- yet they have no workbased experience in their field. I don't think that uni should just be for those on more vocational or direct career related courses such as medicine or engineering. If this was the case we would end up in 20 years with no historians, no geographers and so on. There is nothing wrong with going to university to 'find yourself' or for the love of learning as long as you are aware that at the other end you may have a considerable debt.

I see that there are two points here. The first is that the media are really playing up the bankers bonuses message. A lot of people occupying cities all over the world are doing so because of corporate greed, dissatisfaction at what their taxes are being spent on and the general powerlessness they feel.

My second point is that The Rothschilds are a massive part of the problem. They have power over banks, other corporations and even governments around the world because they have ALL the money. Past presidents have even admitted that they are slaves to the money and the money is the Rothschild family.

Is it a coincidence that we tend to go to war with countries that don't have Rothschild central banks? We storm in, bomb the shit of them then recreate a Western society 'for their own good'. Those countries are no longer free, they are all part of a big money making system. Obviously it is more complex than that in most cases but I believe it plays a massive part.

Personally, I live in a democracy and want change. So I get the luxury of choosing which particular breed of government monkey I want - all of which will be making decisions based on how to make corporations richer. But what if I don't want any of them? If I don't vote for one of them I'm told I have no right to complain about how the country is run.

All of that is worth protesting about. If the camp is still there next week I'm going down to show my support. And if my reasons for protesting are different to someone else's I'm sure we'll have a most interesting conversation about it and come to the conclusion that what we need is a complete overhaul of government and society. It is failing too many and Capitalism isn't working.

Sorry... I kind of ranted a bit there!

 

[indy and lara]

^^^ Interesting to read your views and perspective. The reality is that the message is simply not getting through as to what the protestors want. Perhaps it is in Wall Street but there is not a clear message coming from those in London.

For me, I do not believe that the Rothschilds control the world despite all their money.

 

[Dopeyjopey]

The message isn't getting through because the media aren't reporting it right. I noticed on BBC news that Occupy the London Stock Exchange is now being called 'St Paul's Protest' They also choose to show interviews with people who maybe don't have such a strong message:

If you're interested, I've found some good things to read. Some of them may be a bit wrapped up in conspiracy theories or religion but the facts are true

https://www.rense.com/general77/POWERS.HTM
https://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evi...eserve Scam/quotes_on_the_federal_reserve.htm - this one has admissions from the Rothschild and past presidents.

Albert just woke up. If anyone is interested in any of it I can post more later. If not, I won't because I don't want to seem like I'm preaching haha

 

[Yammas]

I get the point of what they are trying to do but i doubt it will change anything ...

Funnily enough my OH predicted something like this would happen with all the spending cuts and tax rises people are bound to be fed up with capitalism but then what are the alternatives???

 

[Dopeyjopey]

I get the point of what they are trying to do but i doubt it will change anything ...

Funnily enough my OH predicted something like this would happen with all the spending cuts and tax rises people are bound to be fed up with capitalism but then what are the alternatives???

Stateless communism or socialism are what I feel to be the best solution although it would undoubtedly take a revolution for it to happen. I always worry I'll open a can of worms on this subject though

 

[alaskagrown]

So there have been several reports across the U.S. that college professors are giving their students the option to attend a Wall Street protest for the weekend, make a sign, sign in during the beginning, sign out at the end OR write a 20 page paper.
A bunch of 18 year old kids who don't know themselves or what they believe, taking a Sociology 101 class, respect the teacher as a figure of authority (although she's a crazy bat)....

This is liberal indoctrination at its finest, folks

This scares me.

 

[alaskagrown]

I get the point of what they are trying to do but i doubt it will change anything ...

Funnily enough my OH predicted something like this would happen with all the spending cuts and tax rises people are bound to be fed up with capitalism but then what are the alternatives???

Stateless communism or socialism are what I feel to be the best solution although it would undoubtedly take a revolution for it to happen. I always worry I'll open a can of worms on this subject though

Communism has and will never work. And for a country such as the U.K. or U.S. to "give it a try" would be committing suicide. I always wondered by people who push for communism and socialism don't just move to China and see how it feels to have all their rights and freedoms stripped away. The people in the U.S. would not tolerate either socialism or communism because we're a country founded on freedom.

Humans, as part of our living biology, will always conform to some sort of latter of hierarchy.

I don't think we'd ever reach a point where we could live in absolute socialism unless we turned into mindless zombies like the people in the book 1984.

Government should play a minimal role in our lives, it should only lend a hand when needed and quit trying to run our lives.

 

[Dopeyjopey]

I get the point of what they are trying to do but i doubt it will change anything ...

Funnily enough my OH predicted something like this would happen with all the spending cuts and tax rises people are bound to be fed up with capitalism but then what are the alternatives???

Stateless communism or socialism are what I feel to be the best solution although it would undoubtedly take a revolution for it to happen. I always worry I'll open a can of worms on this subject though

Communism has and will never work. And for a country such as the U.K. or U.S. to "give it a try" would be committing suicide. I always wondered by people who push for communism and socialism don't just move to China and see how it feels to have all their rights and freedoms stripped away. The people in the U.S. would not tolerate either socialism or communism because we're a country founded on freedom.

Humans, as part of our living biology, will always conform to some sort of latter of hierarchy.

I don't think we'd ever reach a point where we could live in absolute socialism unless we turned into mindless zombies like the people in the book 1984.

Government should play a minimal role in our lives, it should only lend a hand when needed and quit trying to run our lives.

Hence the 'stateless' bit at the beginning. No leader, no government, but just people doing what they all know they have to do to survive. 1984 is most definitely not a good example of socialism. I realise it is extremely unlikely to happen in my lifetime but it is still what I believe to be best.

And it wouldn't work in many places because their views are founded on consumerism (imo). Freedom is very open to interpretation and in my view, no one is truly free.

Except maybe these guys (sorry to those that have seen this before)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqzcUMrDmjM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[deafgal]

I don't think socialism is all that bad. you still get your freedom and yet you work together to look after each other. The poor don't really have that much freedom and rights in a pure captialism countries (the rich get richer and the poor get poorer) but lucky for us, USA do have some touch of gov't involvment.

 

[Yammas]

@Dopeyjopey that vid was hilarious

ETA -I also agree that no-one is really free but that its because there will be things that people want to do that will be against the greater good, hence why society has laws to protect people.

@deafgal thats why i said we dont really have much of an alternative, as weve seen before communism looks good on paper but would never work as people will never be fully complient which is what it needs to work.

And im not sure what socialism is il have to google that in a minute but for it to work it would require all governemnts and other people in power to relinquish their powr to the people which wont happen because then they will have to go back to being a normal person getting screwed over like the rest of us, which is why i doubt this campaign will make a difference,

 

[tina3747]

Hilarious video!!

All WE NEED TO DO IS BUY THINGS WE DONT NEED!!


The guys a genius... Make him president!

 

[Dopeyjopey]

Hilarious video!!

All WE NEED TO DO IS BUY THINGS WE DONT NEED!!


The guys a genius... Make him president!

I'm sure that would be the way to socialism. He'd give up power pretty quickly I think. If you search the love police on YouTube, or everything is ok there's loads more. His conversations with the police are particularly interesting.