Occupy Wall Street - revolution? Or just another protest?

[marley2580]

Isn't the UK and the rest of Europe socialist? Maybe not a pure form, but it is a form of socialism.

 

[Dopeyjopey]

Isn't the UK and the rest of Europe socialist? Maybe not a pure form, but it is a form of socialism.

The UK maybe pretends it is

 

[Sarahkka]

marley - we are described as a socialist democracy all the time in Canada. So very state-involved when it comes to the welfare of the people.
I have lots to say on this topic, darlings, but I may not be able to join in for a couple of days due to house guests and some travelling, but am really enjoying the discussion!

 

[alaskagrown]

Haha, if we were a true socialist or communist country, we probably wouldn't be aloud to be on here complaining about our government!
And there would be no people complaining outside Wall Street about our country. They would probably "mysteriously" disappear *GULP*

Read this!

Experiment in Socialism
An economics professor at Texas Tech said he had never failed a single student before but had, once, failed an entire class. The class had insisted that socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer. The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on socialism."

All grades would be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade so no one would fail and no one would receive an A. After the first test the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. But, as the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided that since they could not make an A, they studied less. The second Test average was a D! No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around the average was an F.

The scores never increased as bickering, blame, name calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for anyone else. All failed to their great surprise and the professor told them that socialism would ultimately fail because the harder people try to succeed the greater their reward but when a government takes all the reward away; no one will try or succeed.

 

[patch2006uk]

The occupy protest in birmingham just looks like a camp site. They don't seem to know what they're doing, or why.

What I find amusing is that they sit there complaining, safe in the knowledge that if they fall down ill, the NHS will look after them; if they lose their job, the state will support them; if they need legal advice, they can get it free from CAB; if they need food, it is plentiful. We've lost sight of how lucky we are. Yes, incomes are stretched, but no-one will starve to death, because the networks are in place to help people.

The system is not perfect, and capitalism and the idea of constant growth is obviously idiotic. But communism doesn't work either. People want power. If you take away elected democracies, you end up with a dictatorship of some sort. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. There's no way around that. It's human nature.

 

[Yammas]

My problem is more with society than capitalism as I said in a previous post there isnt really much of an alternative. People nowadays expect something for nothing instead seeing the benefit system for what it was intended to be which is a temporary measure to help those who have fallen on hard times, its now considered a lifestyle for example a woman came on 'This morning' a while back and complained that the £30,000 she received in benefit wasnt enough to raise her 10 children!!!

Its not just power that corrupts but the greed behind it, there will always be greed no matter what system we have but its managing that needs to be controlled

 

[patch2006uk]

My problem is more with society than capitalism as I said in a previous post there isnt really much of an alternative. People nowadays expect something for nothing instead seeing the benefit system for what it was intended to be which is a temporary measure to help those who have fallen on hard times, its now considered a lifestyle for example a woman came on 'This morning' a while back and complained that the £30,000 she received in benefit wasnt enough to raise her 10 children!!!

Its not just power that corrupts but the greed behind it, there will always be greed no matter what system we have but its managing that needs to be controlled

I'd agree with your point that the problem is the culture of entitlement, but that's not what the occupy protests are about. They're saying that the capitalist system is unfair, and the richest are getting richer while the middle income families are squeezed, which is true. I don't think, however, that this will be rectified by 8 people squatting in tents outside some monuments across the country

 

[Yammas]

I agree it wont make a difference either except to raise awareness for those who are willing to go and find out what the protest is actually about I severely doubt anything will change.

No system will ever be fair, someone will always find a way to exploit it.

 

[patch2006uk]

I agree it wont make a difference either except to raise awareness for those who are willing to go and find out what the protest is actually about I severely doubt anything will change.

No system will ever be fair, someone will always find a way to exploit it.

To be honest, I think I agree with alot of what they're saying. The current system is rotten, and the distribution of wealth is wildly unfair. However, the occupy protests have almost made me less likely to search out and get involved, as I don't agree with their means. They're not achieving anything of any use, and they're making the place look untidy!

 

[Yammas]

Lol yeah i suppose all the tents arent the most attractive thing to look at

And I agree as well the system is unfair especially in america i cant remember the precentage exactly of wealth held by the population but when i heard it i was shocked. I like that they are trying to raise awareness but its being tainted by people getting involved who dont even kow what the cause is about and of course thats the story the media chooses to print, rather than trying to find out what its really about.

The rich and powerful will never relinquish their control or wealth so nothing will ever change.

 

[NewMummyTurne]

I'm not entirely sure what the protest is about either but I do think the cooperations have the monopoly on us, and I do think that they should be made to give more out and that we should have more control on what happens with them as some are so large I feel it some become the peoples. I think its the same with the goverment, I think we need to have more say on how situations are handled instead of one man getting to play big shot.

But the reality is humans will never be happy, we enjoy complaining and someone gotta take the stick.

 

[patch2006uk]

The occupy Birmingham protests have moved from their spot in Victoria Square to a park round the back of the site of the new library, at the council's request, so they didn't get in the way of the German market way to fight capitalism guys!

 

[feedindy]

I don't think this Occupy movement will do anything. I agree with other posts that protestors are completely disorganized and making ridicuolus requests.

The people protesting are wasting their time and should go either look for a job or if they can't find one, go volunteer and be a productive member of society.

Yes there are rich people in the world and we have to deal with it. People worked hard to get to high positions in the corporate world. Why do college kids expect to graduate and be debt free and make $200000 a year? Too many young people need to understand that they actually need to work to get up there in the world, and if you can't find a job now, don't just give up and have a disorganized protest.

Just my opinion.

 

[Dopeyjopey]

The occupy Birmingham protests have moved from their spot in Victoria Square to a park round the back of the site of the new library, at the council's request, so they didn't get in the way of the German market way to fight capitalism guys!

They would be small businesses at the German market, not big corporations. So it doesn't support capitalism at all.

I don't think this Occupy movement will do anything. I agree with other posts that protestors are completely disorganized and making ridicuolus requests.

he people protesting are wasting their time and should go either look for a job or if they can't find one, go volunteer and be a productive member of society.

Yes there are rich people in the world and we have to deal with it. People worked hard to get to high positions in the corporate world. Why do college kids expect to graduate and be debt free and make $200000 a year? Too many young people need to understand that they actually need to work to get up there in the world, and if you can't find a job now, don't just give up and have a disorganized protest.

Just my opinion.

Who said none of them have jobs?

This is the kind of world we live in. 20,000,000 people died of starvation last year. Sex and the City 2 grossed $288,000,000. Sickening.

 

[Dopeyjopey]

Saw this and thought it was apt for this debate!

https://www.imgur.com/MPbIt.jpg

 

[alaskagrown]

Taxing the rich isn't going to solve unemployment for 150,000,000 Americans.

A college graduate who majored in business management isn't going to just apply to be a manager of some random company and get a job (despite what he or she thinks). They'll be lucky enough if they get a secretary job making $10 dollars an hour. After 20 years into the company, maybe they'll have enough experience to be the manager.

 

[deafgal]

I do believe in working your way up, but I don't think we should be causing world problems. some child is working in a factory in another country like slave to keep up with demands that we more like will throw away in a few years)

we should be respecting human rights and moderate with our wants and needs while making sure people are well care for(shelter, food, education, health). Thats what Ihope for.

 

[alaskagrown]

I do believe in working your way up, but I don't think we should be causing world problems. some child is working in a factory in another country like slave to keep up with demands that we more like will throw away in a few years)

we should be respecting human rights and moderate with our wants and needs while making sure people are well care for(shelter, food, education, health). Thats what Ihope for.

I agree that everyone should have access to basic needs, but when these kids are camped out, texting on their $$$ iPhones, complaining that their $1,500 computers got stolen... I'm sure most of these kids come from middle-class families and are still on their parents' insurance plans and will always have a place to stay. If they were to ever fall into poverty, the government would pick up their slack to bring them at least basic needs (subsidized housing, food stamps, etc.). However, if these kids were in some 3rd World southeastern Asian nation or African nation, they'd essentially be screwed and left to die/suffer....then they'd really know what it was to be poor.

 

[patch2006uk]

The occupy Birmingham protests have moved from their spot in Victoria Square to a park round the back of the site of the new library, at the council's request, so they didn't get in the way of the German market way to fight capitalism guys!

They would be small businesses at the German market, not big corporations. So it doesn't support capitalism at all.

Sorry but the German market brings in hundreds of thousands of tourists, who each come to visit in order to spend money. It's capitalism tourism. And it's not a quaint little market-it's a gigantic sprawling thing that covers the entire city centre!

This is the kind of world we live in. 20,000,000 people died of starvation last year. Sex and the City 2 grossed $288,000,000. Sickening.

But they didn't die of starvation because people went to see a movie (even an appalling movie like sex and the city 2!) I do understand the feeling of the world being unjust, because so many people are dying while others carry on oblivious, but the idea that somehow a movie's viewing figures are anything to do with this argument is ridiculous.

Edited to add - the occupy protests aren't even about people starving in Africa.

 

[Yammas]

I don't think this Occupy movement will do anything. I agree with other posts that protestors are completely disorganized and making ridicuolus requests.

The people protesting are wasting their time and should go either look for a job or if they can't find one, go volunteer and be a productive member of society.

Yes there are rich people in the world and we have to deal with it. People worked hard to get to high positions in the corporate world. Why do college kids expect to graduate and be debt free and make $200000 a year? Too many young people need to understand that they actually need to work to get up there in the world, and if you can't find a job now, don't just give up and have a disorganized protest.

Just my opinion.

Not evveryone has worked hard to get famous though what about all these heirs and heiresses you see plastered all over the gossip columns who have never worked a day in their life and were simply born into a rich family?

As well as those who work 3 low paid jobs just to make ends meet shouldnt they be rich?

Also the americans thing it comes down to the jobs availaable as well i doubt 150,000,000 people would want to be cleaners so theres more to it than that.