Opinion of people on benifits

[Nibblenic]

I know this couple, they have 2 kids. They're living in council accommodation, they haven't worked for maybe 24 is years, have absolutely no intention of working. I know for a fact that between them they are receiving over £2300 a month in benefits.

Does this seem right or fair? With working families being punished
What do you think of these people? What is your immediate reaction to that statement? What i anything should be done about it?

I know the details are sketchy, but im looking for a honest immediate reaction biased on the given (truthful) information

 

[Lightworker]

About the couple in your story, I find it highly unfair and inconsiderate that they can do that. I know for some people on benefits, the total income is higher than it would be if they were both working, therefore the incentive to work is nil.

Its even more unfair given that some professional's starting salaries are way below that. When I graduate from uni, a trainee solicitor's starting salary was £23, 000. Other professionals even less, even junior doctors, who help save lives start less for goodness sake.

I think it is indicative of a social welfare system gone bad. I don't know the in's and out's of the benefit system and what criteria you have to meet etc, but I think that in a workless household (with 2 able adults), there should be conditions attached to getting the benefits. One party should either be in work, or some relevant training that will lead to work. They should not be allowed to stay workless without any signs of remedying their worklessness.

I also think that a things need to change at policy level. The government is so concerned with getting people into work that they totally miss the cause of the problem. There should be a huge emphasis on career and personal ambition as opposed to just going to work.

Many people, both rich and poor, view work as just a place to make ends meet. That kind of attitude is counter-productive and it is why there are so many unmotivated young adults these days. I never for a second thought there'd ever be a place where people lived effectively "for free". That always seemed absurd as I come from a country where you have to choices

1. You work

or

2. You starve to death.

My country's welfare system is non-existent really so I am not saying it should be emulated, but my goodness, for some people, benefits is like heaven. What more does one need? Their food, shelter, clothing, drink, smokes, even a holiday all provided for by working man..man it makes me chuckle sometimes.

However, I think that whilst I am for a hard-line approach, it might work to the detriment of couples who although they have worked, want to work, for some reason need to be on benefits for a short period of time.

 

[smelly07]

=D> (<<<<clapping smiley which isnt working for some reason)

lightworker that post kicked bottoms (trying to rein in my use of swear words) totally 100% agree with that


The couple in that situation:

it isnt fair, i think they should be made to at least be actively looking for work/training/education or risk their benefits being greatly reduced.

The system is a fanatasic system for those who honestly really really need it but more needs to be done in these cases and for those abusing the system. x

 

[Nibblenic]

Okay, do not read this until you have replied!

Spoiler

I mean it!

Spoiler

The couple I am talking about are my Grandparents, they receive £2300 a month in benefits of which £2100 is directly paid to their care home. Which is privately run by Care UK. They are only allowed £100 each for personal use, no matter what they get ie. if it goes up so does the care home costs. The £100 a month is meant to keep them in clothes, newspapers, hairdressers that kind of thing. A lot less than JSA. The have a combined age of 178, and are both disabled, one physically and one mentally. They both fought in the War and worked all their lives. The point of my post was on two levels.
One that we are so busy looking at those who arent working we are forgetting that they are often taking less out of the system than others.
Two that the government privatised these care homes as they were making a loss, now they pay out massive amount of money each month to directly pay them

Feel any different? What do you think of the situation now?

 

[smelly07]

I KNEW this was coming nibblenic hahahahahahahhaha...... !!!!

i dont feel any different in regards to my post in general, but now i know the whole story then obviously my views have changed because of the circumstances in this case....... i do think the benefits system is totally unfair, in regards to who, what, why, how and how much each person gets etc iykwim x

(really rushed post as i have to shoot off to pick up my daughter from school)

 

[Lightworker]

Nibbblleeenniiiiiiiccccc!! yes but my original comment still remains. I do agree that when we think of the "benefit culture"..we generally have in mind younger, work-age folk who just cannot be bothered.

 

[Nibblenic]

Tbh though, I think it is just as disgusting that a private company is making a profit out of the government. Especially when we're running at a loss as a country. Just as I think its terrible that landlords have housing benefit paid to them, which directly pays off a mortgage. There are loads of things annoying me with regards to benefits at the moment
There are so many flaws in the system, you wonder if it actually works at all. Who is really benefiting and are those the people really in need or is it infact the opposite and that the people befitting are infact in the lesser need.

Someone got up my nose today. Going on about how wonderful they are for working with two in childcare. Which is great, but was a dig at me, no working atm. I pointed out that she takes 3-4 times out of the system to what I do in terms of benefits as the government heavily subsidises her childcare. Yet again paying into a private company working at a profit. Just a bit bored of all the finger pointing culture we have at the moment. The big society eh?

 

[Sarahkka]

Good thread, clever Nibblenic!
I am also on my way out the door, so have to be brief, but will say that I think we have some similar problems in Canada (not chronic benefits abusers, but some very odd practises that are not in the best interest of our common pot of tax dollars) and that we are about to follow in the UK's footsteps with some major benefits reforms (in our case, I think the seniors are going to be hit hard). I do think that some reforms are needed, but not in a reactionary, "get off your lazy ass and work" kind of way. I think we could be a lot smarter with how we spend benefit dollars.

 

[Lightworker]

YES! Nibblenic I am glad you mentioned the comparison between someone that works full time and gets govt. subsidies for their childcare...I would never have thought of it like that, and perhaps neither would most people. There can be a general "smugness" of I'm working and paying my way..but really, they might be taking out more than a non-worker.

Cool x

 

[Yammas]

Wow nice twist!!!

I think that there needs to be closer links between education and the jobs that are actually available because there are so many people who go through the system memorising textbooks and passing all the exams but find that there are no jobs in thier field which they spend years training for and no experience to transfer when looking for other work.

As for benefits a one size fits all policy will never work because everyones situation is different but there should be a time limit for how long you can claim if you are work ready and choose not to work.

 

[Lina]

Opinion of people on benefit is usually always negative and the media has much to do with it. They portray a picture of feckless, lazy scroungers when in many cases the opposite is actually true. Isn't it true that for every 5 people looking for a job there is only 1 job available? It is all good to say 'they must work', but where is this work?

 

[miaplus2]

Being a mother of two who as some point in her adult life has depended on benefits, and also as a council housing tenant i really wouldn't like to judge.... i was judge often and looked down on daily for months while my OH tried day in day out to look for a job. Thankfully hes working now and we are ok but, I've learnt to never judge without full facts. I'm now off to read your spoilers and the replies below it! lol

 

[alaskagrown]

I think it's healthy to have a negative attitude towards living on the government dole. My OH and I would certainly qualify to live on government dole - we'd get a bigger apartment to live in, we'd get FAR more money per month to spend on food, etc. - but we don't. We have to much dignity to ask for help because we're totally capable of staying afloat... But I know plenty of other people our age that think, "Well, if I qualify for it then I don't see anything wrong then accepting it!"

 

[deafgal]

i think those who work should be rewarded by something that those who are on gov't assistance can't.

 

[alaskagrown]

i think those who work should be rewarded by something that those who are on gov't assistance can't.

Unfortunately, we're coming to a point where there is more incentive to be on government assistance than there is to work.

I have a pregnant friend who just switched from a full-time job paying 40k per year to a part-time job paying about 15k per year just so she can receive benefits. Crazy world!

 

[miaplus2]

But some people need help to be able to help themselves i live is a council house, should i feel lazy because my rent is lower then average? i get tax credits like most uk working and non working families and as i said before i have claimed while my OH was out of work, getting and keeping jobs these days is hard my OH is highly trained but hes a chef and at the moment there's not much demand. He was out of work for almost a year and we struggled. People always say things like "i would never take from the government" "I'm too proud to claim" sometimes people have no choice but to swallow their pride and take the hand outs and deal with society glaring at them day in day out.

 

[alaskagrown]

But some people need help to be able to help themselves i live is a council house, should i feel lazy because my rent is lower then average? i get tax credits like most uk working and non working families and as i said before i have claimed while my OH was out of work, getting and keeping jobs these days is hard my OH is highly trained but hes a chef and at the moment there's not much demand. He was out of work for almost a year and we struggled. People always say things like "i would never take from the government" "I'm too proud to claim" sometimes people have no choice but to swallow their pride and take the hand outs and deal with society glaring at them day in day out.

To me, the UK is a whole different ball game. The UK is much more generous with benefits and welfare, and the United States is much more "stingy." There is a great emphasis placed on independence from the government here in the US, while the UK and Europe take on more of a socialist attitude. To me, it's like comparing apples to oranges. I find it hard to really understand UK benefits because it seems like everyone is eligible for some type or another.
It would be terrible if people readily perceived being on benefits as totally acceptable and the norm. There would be a LOT more people applying for them and it would be much more difficult to sustain our society than it already is.

 

[TattiesMum]

Tbh though, I think it is just as disgusting that a private company is making a profit out of the government. Especially when we're running at a loss as a country. Just as I think its terrible that landlords have housing benefit paid to them, which directly pays off a mortgage. There are loads of things annoying me with regards to benefits at the moment
There are so many flaws in the system, you wonder if it actually works at all. Who is really benefiting and are those the people really in need or is it infact the opposite and that the people befitting are infact in the lesser need.

Someone got up my nose today. Going on about how wonderful they are for working with two in childcare. Which is great, but was a dig at me, no working atm. I pointed out that she takes 3-4 times out of the system to what I do in terms of benefits as the government heavily subsidises her childcare. Yet again paying into a private company working at a profit. Just a bit bored of all the finger pointing culture we have at the moment. The big society eh?

To a certain extent the same applies to anyone working in the private sector who gets TC/CTC ... the Gov't is subsidising employers who choose to pay minimum wage and thus reap profits which go straight into the pockets of the business owners/shareholders

Great post Nic

 

[DanielleM]

great post with a great twist. First of all I thought 'here we go another benefit bashing thread' but this is fab!! Ever thought of writing a novel with your good twist ideas

In all honesty though it is actually disgusting how little your grandparents get to live off when they have worked so hard and getting nothing at the end of life

ETA: I mean the fact they only get £100 to spend on essentials

 

[Laura2919]

The government haven't a clue what they are doing!