Progesterone

[Nataliieexo]

I’m feeling really anxious tonight for some reason. You know when you get bad news and your stomach sort of drops I felt like that before but for no reason and I feel really anxious out of the blue with no reason why. I suffer with anxiety but not like this.

 

[Nataliieexo]

My temp went down this morning, my temp always goes down on 5dpo I’m not sure if there’s anything in that or not though.

I’ve added 3 of my previous charts from last year when I was using soy. As you can see two of my charts are very similar they were cycle 1&2 of using soy and the 3rd one is very different that is cycle 3 on soy. My first 2 charts my temps dropped from 5dpo onwards then the 3rd one did have me feeling pretty optimistic but obviously I still got my af with 9day lp.

 

[happycupcake]

Your increased anxiety could be the change in hormones, I seem to have an increase in anxiety around ovulation, but it used to be far more prominent during my lp. The dip you're seeing is probably due to the oestrogen surge you have during your lp, there's usually a couple of these surges which is normal.
It could be that the cream isn't enough to help increase the length of your lp. I think if your anxiety continues then it may be worth asking for Cyclogest instead as this is a higher dose of progesterone and should really help your lp. It may also help your anxiety. If you're oestrogen dominant then your lp will suffer and so will your anxiety

 

[Nataliieexo]

I think I will take my charts to the Drs if this cycles lp isn’t any better. I just don’t think my Drs understand anything about the lp because 2 Drs have told me lp doesn’t matter. When I know full well it does. With my chemical I think I implanted at 9dpo and then with my son 10dpo I got bfps at 11&12dpo with them so I need the extra days to implant. I know some people do get pregnant with short lps I just don’t think that would be me.

I’m feeling a lot better today but last night was so strange I had never felt like that for no reason before.

I also wonder about the quality of my eggs. Since I hadn’t been ovulating until last year that’s 2 years and a bit of no ovulation at all, it makes me wonder if there’s something going on there.

 

[Nataliieexo]

I definitely have some symptoms of a uti I have had a fair few of them over the past several months and I have had one after ovulation for the past few cycles I wonder if this is the result of me holding my pee for ovulation tests. I also wonder if it may have a negative effect on conceiving.

 

[happycupcake]

I think firstly whoever told you your lp doesn't matter is completely full of shit and knows absolutely nothing. Of course it matters! As you know. Anything under 11 days is classed as a short lp and progesterone levels should be checked. There are various things you can do to try to increase progesterone on your own aside from cream, but personally I found the best way was Cyclogest. It also really helped my anxiety and depression. I was a suicidal mess before using them, and this has reduced to a few days of depression (but I think it's normal to feel that way after having losses) and much less anxiety. My temps are also sustained. I didn't have a short lp, but my temps were falling too soon. And I had other symptoms of low progesterone.

I think you should have your oestradiol levels checked too. This is usually done between CD1-4. Frequent UTIs can indicate low oestrogen, and if this is low then your lining may not be building enough, and also your eggs may not be maturing enough.
I think your doctor should perform the same bloods I had done which were for FSH, LH, oestradiol, FBC and thyroid. I then had progesterone checked about a week before af was due, but I had had positive pregnancy tests by then so I think this is why my progesterone was slightly elevated. They also carried out a pelvic scan which revealed a thin lining and like you, I suffered with frequent UTIs and I have to be SO careful these days otherwise they happen again.

The best way to avoid UTIs is obviously to drink plenty of water, Cystopurin can help too, as can unsweetened cranberry juice. Keep clean obviously but don't use any kind of soap down below, just water to wash with down there. Wear cotton underwear so you can breathe. I found uva ursi helpful, it's a herbal tincture but it isn't for long term use as it can cause liver damage I think. I also don't know of its safety re ttc so that's something to ask a pharmacist or Google.
Pee as soon as you have the urge to and try drinking at least a pint an hour, avoid alcohol and keep caffeine to a minimum, although if you need to flush your bladder through in a hurry, one cup of tea won't hurt, caffeine is a diuretic so will draw all liquid to your bladder and help you pee fast. I used to drink a load of water and have one cup of tea or coffee first thing to help me get rid of the stinging quickly. But if you find caffeine in any amount makes it worse then just don't drink it.
It's also really important to pee immediately before sex and as soon as possible afterwards too (I know ttc it's advised to lie with legs up for a while, but I would do only what you can get away with then pee asap after), and also important he makes sure his bits don't come into contact with your backdoor as this will transmit bacteria into your urethra which you don't want

 

[Nataliieexo]

I’m going to write those down and talk to the dr about it. I’ve had all the bloods done but what I notice at my drs is they don’t care at what point in your cycle you are for them to take them. Although I know well that they need to be taken at the correct times to get accurate results. I sometimes feel like I have more knowledge in fertility than the Drs at my surgery. Although there is a lot I still don’t know about but I at least know the basics and about ovulation problems and progesterone etc.
It’s frustrating because when anyone I know wants to ttc or have problems with there period and cycles or want to know when to take opks when the best time to have sex is they come to me, i spent several cycles helping my close friend conceive, I helped her with everything except doing the deed itself but I just can’t get myself pregnant it’s so strange. I do feel quite privileged that people choose to ask my advice and feel that I’m the person that they can come to with any advice they have. Although it brings me happiness when they do conceive it still stings that’s it’s not me.

I pretty much do all of those things. I have always been prone to uti’s aswell. When I was about 21 I had food poisoning and it some how triggered me to have a uti which went undiagnosed because my symptoms were stomach cramps, diarrhoea and vomiting so it was automatically assumed as stomach bug but then I had one every month for 3 months in the end I saw a dr and had a severe uti and after that treatment whenever I got a uti i didn’t get sickness or anything else with it just cramps and frequently needing to pee. Funny enough I only had a few utis while pregnant with my son and the past few years I’ve had several a year and now turning into every month again. I don’t drink a lot of tea now compared to what I used to i usually have 2 max sometimes just my morning cup of tea I can’t function without that. I found tea made me pee a lot and I have problems with my bladder to start with it never empties properly so I need the toilet quicker so tea only makes it worse. When I had my early scans when I was pregnant I would be asked to empty my bladder and they would ask me straight away if I had been because my bladder was still full. The first 4 scans I had killed me having to have a full bladder and then after I would have to pee every 5-10 minutes and had to travel 45minutes home by bus it was horrendous. That probably doesn’t help my uti problems.

 

[happycupcake]

Yeah I can relate to a lot of what you say.
With your doctor instead of having the bloods done there, ask them for the form and go to your hospital to have them instead if you can as this means you choose when to go in. At our hospital you can just go to the path lab and have bloods done with the form, you don't have to have an appointment.

I know how you feel with the advice thing too and seeing everyone else become successfully pregnant and you feel like you're being left behind. I don't mind giving advice if I can and helping and I'm happy when people get their positives, but it's rubbish feeling like I'm inadequate somehow because I can't keep hold of a pregnancy when I didn't have an issue before. It's so frustrating.

Haven't they investigated your UTI situation? I would have thought suffering for as long as you have they would have? But then if they're that crap they don't even know how important your luteal phase is I guess they don't seem to care about much. I think I would push for investigation and definitely try to have all the relevant hormone tests redone at the right time. It's such a shame that they have let you down like this. If it's a hormonal issue then it could potentially be easily fixed if only they bothered to really look into things and perform the right tests at the right time

 

[Nataliieexo]

Oh I didn’t know you could do that I will see if you can do that around here it could be different in different places. I’m not sure.

It is hard when everyone around you is getting pregnant, it would be even harder suffering losses aswell. I always set myself up for a fall every cycle I imagine how we would announce our pregnancy, how we would include our son in the announcement.

I must admit my doctors are not very good, I was recently diagnosed with hyper mobility of the knees and it causes chronic leg pain it’s every day, and all they have offered is codeine and another tablet to kill nerve pain and help me sleep and physio while the tablets do work codeine is addictive and as far as I’m aware shouldn’t be used long term. But that’s all they offer. Our surgery has combined with another two surgeries and the Drs are constantly rotating around from surgery to surgery so it’s hard to even see the same dr twice. When my son was 8 weeks old I was suffering with gallstone pain I had it while pregnant but when he was out it got so much worse. I went to the Drs and the dr told me it was my body adjusting from not being pregnant any more and when I said I think I have gallstones the dr said there was no way it was gallstones and then I was in hospital 2 days later with a attack and had my gallbladder removed the next morning and it was full to the brim with gallstones that full the bile was leaking out into my body when they were removing it.
I had issues with my son when he was born with reflux they just wouldn’t listen to me to the point I took him to a&e twice just so i could get someone to help him. But ever since they have been good with him, especially when he has had croup he’s always got the steroid he needs etc. I couldn’t even switch surgery’s because they have all combined now.

 

[happycupcake]

Oh my goodness, that's really a nightmare. The first thing I was thinking was can you change doctor surgery. We have a lot of different doctors coming and going in our surgery, and the one doctor I trust who happens to be one of the partners, she's away frequently so it's hard to see her when she's there as everyone wants to see her. There's some guy there who's a complete arse, I went in to ask for help when I was in the worst of my eating disorder and he told me to 'just eat more' and that was it. Like it was just that easy. Another doctor there couldn't even read a pregnancy test properly, telling me it was positive and then looking at it again and saying 'oh sorry, that was the control line, it's negative'. Some doctors are just so incredibly rubbish it really makes you wonder how on earth they qualified.

Yes, you're right, codeine is addictive and ideally shouldn't be used for more than three days when self-medicating. A doctor can keep prescribing them, but it isn't really helping. It's an opiate based drug, so you can become addicted to it. Unfortunately there seems to be little anyone can actually do about certain types of pain. I don't know how else they could treat your pain since I don't know enough about it. My husband has chronic back problems, he has a herniated disc and has had it for so long his mobility is reduced so because he's subconsciously restricted his movement, it's made it worse. He's been on two types of morphine for ages, on and off for about three years.
Where is the nerve pain? Is it possible it's sciatic? It could be a separate issue to that of your hypermobility if so, and possible your sciatic nerve is being pressed, in which case it may be worth asking about a spinal instead. This works by numbing the pain for a few months so you can partake in physio more effectively, and also injects a steroid on top of anaesthetic.
The drug you're on, is it gabapentin (neurontin)? It's quite a commonly prescribed drug for nerve pain. It may be worth asking for a low dose of Zomorph instead of codeine as these are slow release and whilst still addictive, they may help more than codeine which is more of a fast acting drug. Zomorph is a type of morphine, but you take two a day twelve hours apart. Still isn't ideal but there isn't much else as once you start on heavy duty painkillers, milder ones don't really do anything. I don't think there's any kind of painkiller that's ideal for long term use.

The whole gallbladder thing sounds horrendous. I can't believe they didn't bother with you and just left you to it. My husband had to have his appendix out not so long ago and had been suffering these episodes of horrific pain, I had always worried it was his appendix as sometimes you can have appendicitis which lasts a long time, rather than the usual kind that comes on quickly and is immediately an emergency situation. This was what he had, obviously why things like buscopan weren't helping. Eventually it got to a point I called an ambulance out and after leaving him in the waiting room for hours (they didn't recognise the signs for some stupid reason) he was seen and eventually diagnosed with appendicitis and had it removed the following evening. Sometimes we are the best people to diagnose things, because we know our bodies and our partners more than most, and some doctors are rubbish.

You should be able to do that with the path lab. I would imagine it's the same in many areas at least. You can't always get an appointment at your doctor at the right time so it is sometimes much easier to just go to the hospital instead. This is what I do if I have to have my bloods done because it's so hard to book an appointment at my surgery at the right time.

It is hard. I remember when trying (or rather NTNP) with my first, I wasn't hugely bothered by pregnant women and newborns at first but I was a little after a while. But it hit harder after my first loss nine years ago. My best friend was pregnant at the time so it was hard seeing her, I was happy for her but it wasn't easy especially when she'd grab my hand to feel her DD kicking.
I think it's normal to do what you do, I do the same. You can't help imagine what things will be like, and what if this is your month and things are good, how you would tell everyone, how you would feel being pregnant and the names you would want etc. I find myself doing the same thing each month too

 

[Nataliieexo]

I didn’t sleep well at all last night, I woke up regularly between 1am and 3am either because of cramps or needing to pee I finally got a solid 4 hours sleep after that. I took my temp this morning then went back to sleep as my oh gets up with our son on Sunday’s so I can lie in. I’m feeling a lot better today so far no cramping or anything hopefully I don’t get anything else like that I can’t imagine a uti being any good for implantation especially with the cramps.

Oh that’s awful about the dr you saw that told you to eat more, how could he even have imagined that would be something helpful to say.

It’s called amatryptaline, I was given it at first when I started getting the leg pain because they said it might be nerve pain and it did help some and I slept a lot better and more soundly on it which is always a plus. I then came off it but was put back on it because we couldn’t find anything else that worked as well combined with the codeine. I don’t take the codeine everyday and I’m not addicted despite being on it for a year or so now, i take it when it is really bad and just go with paracetamol when it’s not so bad. But I can’t be on amatryptaline or codeine when pregnant so we will have to explore other options or I will just have to live through the pain.
The dr also thinks the amatryptaline can be used to help with ibs also and it definitely stops me from being up and down peeing before I can eventually drift off at night which is a bonus I used to have to pee every 10-20 mins from getting into bed until I could finally drift off it was highly frustrating. It is also used as anxiety and depression tablet aswell I have found it helpful for that aswell.

Yes I definitely agree that we are sometimes better at diagnosing ourself than Drs. Google is definitely helpful sometimes but other times not so helpful and can have some scary information. Sometimes i also wonder how the Drs got there qualifications and there jobs and if they really care.

With my chemical I found it really difficult, to see other people announcing etc. My two close friends have been pregnant while I’ve been ttc and had there baby’s it’s been quite hard especially when I was ttc before they even wanted another baby. I think everyone ttc imagines the same thing about how it would be and how they would announce. I think it I got a bfp I would probably faint, it’s been so long I think in some way while I imagine what it will be like to be pregnant and what it would be like to see those 2 pink lines I still think in the back of my mind that it’s not our cycle and it won’t happen to protect myself from feeling so disappointed when I get af.

In all honesty I don’t think anything has changed this cycle my nipples are still sore they were sore from before ovulation til af last cycle and still are now, I’m not sure if it’s a side effect of the progesterone cream though because usually they would stop hurting by 3-4dpo. Although I have noticed that my symptoms do change from cycle to cycle aswell.

 

[happycupcake]

I'm sorry your sleep suffered so much, mine did too as it happens because of anxiety. It's rubbish not seeing much sleep.

Oh yes, amitryptiline was given to my husband for nerve pain, but it landed him in hospital being unable to pee, so he couldn't use it. Since it stops you peeing frequently, I wonder if this contributes to your UTIs?
I use diazepam for my anxiety. Another opiate based drug which is highly addictive, I have used it for years but I actually haven't become addicted to it and the reason I know this is because when I had acupuncture I was able to just stop using it immediately without any withdrawal effects. I don't take it because I physically crave it, I use it to keep anxiety as low as possible, but I find Cyclogest does a pretty good job too when I use it during my lp, which means I can lower the dose of diazepam I am using. It isn't something that's advised to use in pregnancy but it's thought to be relatively lower risk up until the third trimester. Still, I don't like that I use it.
It's hard to treat pain successfully without compromising on something. Have you tried acupuncture for your pain? It can also be used for lots of other things too.

I understand what you mean. I tend to start thinking about things, and then I try to stop myself imagining it being our month because it's always resulted in misery so far.

Yeah progesterone can cause some symptoms, it usually makes my boobs hurt a lot

 

[Nataliieexo]

I really hate under sleeping I never ever feel well rested when I wake regardless of how much sleep I get but I find I’m much slower the day after having less sleep. I had never thought of the amatryptaline being the reason for utis although I do pee a lot during the day and hourly on a evening I think I do pee plenty.

I haven’t, I wanted to wait until I had been seen at the hospital about the leg pain in case I did find something that worked and it masked a problem. I will be looking into further alternative methods of pain relief though especially if I do get pregnant. It’s good that you aren’t addicted to the diazepam and you can lower the dose during you lp.

It’s hard when you build yourself up for a bfp and it doesn’t happen. I was so lucky when I ttc my son to conceive him in 3 cycles and I never imagined I would face difficulties later on.

I don’t believe in stuff like this usually but my Mam passed away when I was 8 weeks pregnant and I do believe my son was sent to me to help me through losing her. And he really did help me and he still does.

It’s probably the progesterone then, I’m eager get to 9/10dpo to see if the Vitex/progesterone has made any difference to my lp at all.

 

[Nataliieexo]

Temps gone down this morning, it was freezing when I woke up and snowing a bit not sure if that would cause my temp to be lower or not. I have a feeling this is the start of my temps dropping though. Af is due on Thursday based on a 9day lp.

 

[happycupcake]

Yeah I know what you mean, I don't feel like I have slept properly even if I have a really good night's sleep. It may be to do with melatonin production, if you're not making enough of it then you won't sleep properly, and I would imagine it could easily contribute to restlessness and being unable to go into a proper deep sleep. You can buy it online but it isn't available over the counter here, there apparently hasn't been enough trials to ensure its safety but I don't really understand that since it's something we make naturally, or should make, but some don't make enough of it so it seems sensible to supplement with it until you're in a good sleeping pattern. It seems more logical than sleeping pills and stuff. I think it can sometimes be prescribed but it depends on the doctor I think.

I see what you're saying, my husband worries about having appointments about his back issues and the meds he's on masking things etc.
There are lots of alternative therapies you can try out though, some available on the NHS, I believe acupuncture is in some places here for physical problems like nerve pain. It isn't available for mental health though which is a shame as it's really helpful but also expensive when you're looking at six sessions bare minimum. Ideally ongoing.

If we ever do get a sticky baby then I will gradually lower the diazepam, which in theory should be easier pregnant than not pregnant because of the constant elevated levels of progesterone.

It's weird isn't it, when it seemed so easy before to conceive and have a healthy baby and then one day it just is the complete opposite. We didn't expect it to be like this. Youngest is four so it isn't like it's been decades since we had a child.

I'm a firm believer in these things, I'm sure many think I'm crazy but I don't care lol I think the timing of pregnancies when you lose someone close to you isn't a coincidence. I've heard this so many times, couples expecting right when they lose someone significant, and it really helps them through it. I'm sorry you lost your mum, though. That must be incredibly hard

The dip could be another oestrogen surge so hopefully they'll increase again, or not dip any lower at least. I have seen lots of charts during pregnancy though which dip a lot, some close to the coverline, so dips don't always mean something negative. I hope your lp is at the least extended, but fingers crossed for a lovely positive instead

 

[Nataliieexo]

That’s probably something I should look into, I’ve always had trouble falling asleep, it used to take me so long but since starting the amatryptaline i fall asleep must faster. Melatonin is also something my sons peaditrition is looking to try him on in the summer because he has trouble sleeping with lighter nights and takes hours to get to sleep. He was like that in winter too but recently he’s been ok and going to sleep pretty much straight away it can be pretty hit and miss for him.

My little boy is 4 in June and although it’s not that long it’s a long time to have been ttc a sibling I imagined a much smaller age gap. And people ask all the time. Even my friend who knows I’ve struggled always asks if I’m pregnant yet. My family aren’t too fussed about me having more children but my partners mum and gran are obsessed with me giving them another grandchild which is nice they want me to have another child but they don’t make a effort to see my son so I’m not sure why they are so keen.

It was really difficult losing her, she had been through a lot, a coma twice both times we were told she wouldn’t be coming home with us and both times she did, but she was home 2 days before she fell in her bedroom while I was making her a cup of tea and she broke her collarbone and hip and died of pneumonia 4 days later. It was a shock because of what she had been through and survived we never imagined breaking her hip would be the end. My whole family is now divided and it’s clear she was the glue that held us all together.

I hope so, fingers crossed for tomorrow’s temp, even having a 11dpo would be improvement. I’m still hopeful for a bfp though. I tried out one of my cheapies this morning just to see if they left a evap or anything and they look fine. I’ll possibly test on Wednesday when I’m 9po as long as I have no spotting.

 

[happycupcake]

Yeah I think it's worth looking into, I don't know if lacking in melatonin can be hereditary if they're looking into it for your son? Do you have blackout curtains? I know it sounds silly, but it helps.
You saying that about your son has made me wonder about when my eldest was little, he was awful for sleep and didn't sleep through the night for absolutely ages. His dad suffered insomnia and bought melatonin online and it was like a miracle for him, he was sleeping fine. I wonder if parent has sleep issues/low melatonin, if child is then predisposed to poor sleep too.

Have you been actively trying since having your son? I didn't expect an eleven year age gap between eldest and DS2. I had had a miscarriage between, but even then he was almost seven years old so was still some time. But then, I didn't expect the tiny just under eleven month gap between second and third child. And today, or since 2016, all we have are chemicals. Weird how hugely things change over a relatively short space of time.

Wow, your mum went through an awful lot. That must have felt like such a huge kick in the teeth to lose her like that after she'd survived so much. My grandad passed away after a fall, he hadn't had anything wrong with him before, aside from being extremely forgetful. Then one day he accidentally pulled his wardrobe down, somehow managed to then fall down the stairs and was there for two days before anyone realised. His heart stopped a couple of times but he appeared to be recovering, he was transferred to a nursing home as his daughter couldn't live with him long term (she lived in a different country), but he was then transferred back to hospital after catching MRSA and that finished him off. If he hadn't fallen, he probably would have lived for a lot longer as he was always fit and healthy even at his age. I guess after all that trauma and then that, he wasn't strong enough to recover.

It's a shame your family is divided, you always imagine these things bringing you together but sometimes they push you away. Do you have many siblings?

Even if you do see spotting there's every chance it's IB, I do hope you have a positive outcome

 

[Nataliieexo]

Yeah he has black out curtains and it still doesn’t seem to help. As far as I know melatonin helps you fall asleep but not stay asleep so it wouldn’t really help with night wake ups. I was a bit unsure about it because he can fall asleep and does but the peaditrition, health visitor still want him to try it for the lighter nights. I wouldn’t mind him not sleeping straight away but he gets on the windows and bangs on the windows and I don’t want him near the Windows, if he was playing nicely I wouldn’t have a issue with it. It could be hereditary, I’m not sure it’s worth a look into.

That’s so sad about your grandad, especially when he had life left in him to live. It’s awful especially when a fall can lead to death. Until i happened to us I didn’t think it was possible.
She was poorly before her comas she had emphysema but she was pretty active and it didn’t have a lot of impact on her life then during her first coma she had several strokes and was left disabled and I was her carer for 4 years before she passed away. She was only 40 it was far to early to lose her. I’ll forever feel robbed of the things we could have shared together especially the birth of my son, she was the one I wanted by my side as I gave birth.

I have a sister she’s 19 I don’t see her a lot despite living in the same town she’s been pretty rebellious since my Mam passed away she goes out all weekend every weekend etc. She lives with my step dad who also hardly comes round or bothers with us either. It’s sad really.

We were mostly ntnp after he was born but didn’t last long before the opks came out and then I started temping a bit later. I wanted to know my cycles. My oh knows nothing about my cycles, not when I’m fertile or anything he prefers not to know. Even after all this time he’s a lot more laid back than me about it.


I had 4 weeks implant bleeding with my son from week 4-8 but was after I got my bfp. The hospital just kept saying that’s what my spotting was. I’m not sure if implant bleeding is supposed to last that long. That’s a bit of a strange story too like I said I spotted every day week 4-8 and the day my Mam died my spotting stopped. In one way it felt like she took it away so I wouldn’t have the extra stress and worry. I had slight spotting at 11 weeks due to a uti too.

I haven’t put any thought into what I will do for next cycle if we aren’t successful this cycle. Since I ovulated on the first cycle of Vitex which was the goal I feel like I should give it a few cycles to see if it makes improvements to my lp. If it hasn’t worked this cycle as they do say it can take months to work.

 

[Nataliieexo]

It looks like I’m out woke up slight cramping and spotting and temp at coverline at 8dpo. Although I have wondered if I ovulated on cd21 when I had stabbing pains on my right side but ff didn’t put ovulation til cd23.

 

[Nataliieexo]

Spotting is starting to get a bit more now and cramping fairly bad, I always have bad cramp even with spotting before my period. And to make it worse I have such a headache.

I could possibly have a 8 day lp this cycle and that’s the shortest it’s ever been I’m so frustrated, I don’t know where to go from here, people keep suggesting I use vitamin b6 alongside the Vitex to help with my lp but not to except results straight away and it’s not garenteed to work. I really don’t think I will be able to get the dr to take me seriously about progesterone suppositories but I’m going to give it a shot. I’ve also read that low progesterone can be a result of weak ovulation. I don’t even know what I’m supposed to do about that because I’ve already tried soy to make me ovulate that should of given stronger ovulation aswell but my lp was still the same then. I can only hope that cycle number 2 on Vitex will be better. At least I ovulated.