Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[bananaz]

So we are in a rough patch here I've been trying to move her nap later so that she wouldn't be awake for so long before bed but she gets soooo tired by 10-11am and often ends up falling asleep nursing, which she hasn't done in ages. Then her nap gets pushed really late and the whole schedule is thrown off.

She's also been fighting being put to bed. She throws all of her toys out of the crib and cries hysterically until I go in, wrestle her down and pat her back. I don't know if I should keep doing this or if I'm just making the problem worse by giving in instead of trying to get her to self-settle.

On top of that, her early morning wakings are worse than ever. Last night I had a friend in town so I stayed out late for the first time in months. Of course LO decided to get up for the day at 4 this morning! I couldn't believe it

 

[stephie_corin]

Oh bananaz! I thought our 530am wake ups were bad. You poor thing.

We had a beyond terrible night, even by Cs standards. I can't believe we have got to the point where 4 wake ups between 11-530 is a good night.

He did not sleep more than 30-45 minutes last night and from 4 am I could not put him down. I feel so exhausted I could cry. I think I did cry over my cereal but I'm too tired to remember!

We have been doing two naps for a few days and he coped fine with the awake times but dropped to three milk feeds in the day!! (he only nurses at nap time and bedbtime) so I did three naps again (or really pushed three day feeds and a bedtime feed and he fell asleep after each feed... Lol) so I wonder if the change in routine has thrown him.

Teething... Working on motor skills.... Routine.... I know he is going through a tough time but surely he needs more sleep than this! He only catnaps in the day too.

Sorry, just ranting!!

 

[Radkat]

Stephie, I feel like we're in the same place. My LO had her worst night in a long time. She was probably up 15+ times last night. She needed to be walked to calm down 3-4 times which she hasn't needed in a long time. I still ony fed her twice. She just figured out how to stand up in her cosleeper so she kept standing up whenever she woke up. I don't think she's teething now but I'm not sure. Tonight isn't looking good either as she's already been uo twice since I put her down an hour ago. She settled with shush and pat. Ugh.

 

[stephie_corin]

Radkat I'm so sorry you are going through this too. How old is your LO? The lack of sleep is so debilitating!

 

[polaris]

So we are in a rough patch here I've been trying to move her nap later so that she wouldn't be awake for so long before bed but she gets soooo tired by 10-11am and often ends up falling asleep nursing, which she hasn't done in ages. Then her nap gets pushed really late and the whole schedule is thrown off.

She's also been fighting being put to bed. She throws all of her toys out of the crib and cries hysterically until I go in, wrestle her down and pat her back. I don't know if I should keep doing this or if I'm just making the problem worse by giving in instead of trying to get her to self-settle.

On top of that, her early morning wakings are worse than ever. Last night I had a friend in town so I stayed out late for the first time in months. Of course LO decided to get up for the day at 4 this morning! I couldn't believe it

Bananaz, I could be wrong but it sounds to me like she is overtired. Could you try an earlier bedtime or even going back to two naps for a week or so just to get her a bit better rested? My oldest boy is dropping his final nap and he is definitely ready to drop it but after a bit the tiredness just catches up with him and he needs to nap for a few days or else he gets overtired. I wonder if this is what has happened with your LO - i.e. they are ready to drop the nap in many respects but over time they gradually accumulate a sleep debt and become overtired, which has a knock on effect on their overall sleep quality and so the problem just becomes exacerbated.

 

[polaris]

Another good night last night! She woke after 45 minutes and I ended up feeding her again to resettle her because I was going out for the evening and just needed her to go to sleep now!! So I wasn't hopeful about the rest of the night. But she slept solidly until 11, woke up but OH went in and gave her a quick cuddle and she went straight back off and didn't wake until 4.30!! Had a feed and back to sleep until 6.40 a.m. I honestly cannot believe the difference in her sleep in such a short space of time! I'm sure she is going to have plenty of setbacks (this is Clara we are talking about after all) but I just feel so much more hopeful now.

Stephie and Radcat - - so sorry you both had such dreadful nights.

 

[NotNic]

Bananaz we have gone back to mostly two naps. Sometimes he just wants one long nap, so we try to make bedtime slightly earlier. On those days I bring dinner forward by 20mins or so and just start the bed routine a bit earlier. He has started to want to nap earlier and tbh I go back to work next work and have loads to do, so I haven't been strict with him. I'd rather have a decent 2hrs to get stuff done.

On the early start, we now get OH to go in to him if he wakes before 5.30. He's much more successful at getting him back to sleep. If I go in Finlay thinks the day has started and cries if I leave the room.

 

[Twister]

sorry you ladies had such bad nights.

I feel bad posting this now because my lo actually had her best night in a long long time. After her wake up shortly after bed she slept till 11:30, then till 3:30 and she's just woken up for the day at 7:15.

I don't know what caused her to have such a good night, whether its to do with me leaving her to cry the other night or me not going to her straight away when she woke the first time. Her naps were terrible yesterday

 

[Tess.ie]

Twister and Polaris, thats good to hear your nights were better...Theres hope for us yet!!

Chloe is doing ok with naps, and with going off to sleep at night but she just keeps waking overnight.
Last night she went to sleep 7.15ish, woke at 9.20 and wouldn't settle without a feed (oh went in first and she was not happy, although he went in and stayed not reassured and left like i would have tried) but fed well and went straight back to sleep. 12 she woke again and fed (although not hugely hungry), again at 1.30 but then i reassured her and waited and she cried for a few mins and went back to sleep without feeding. 3.30 woke (I didnt realise we had been asleep again and tried to leave her again, but then looked at the clock and realised it was 2 hours later!!) and fed well. 5.30 woke and lazy me brought her into our bed where she had 2 sucks then fell asleep, then woke on and off till 7 when she woke properly for the day and had a feed.
That was better than the night before when she woke every hour after midnight!!
Its just so hard trying to judge whether she's hungry or not during the night when she wakes. As soon as I latch her on I can tell, but by then shes up out of bed. Any tips??

 

[Noelle610]

Tessie, how many night feeds is she having regularly?

Bananaz, I agree with Polaris. I would just be flexible about naps. We have some two nap days right now and other one nap days depending on wake-up time. Honestly, I'm big into routine but I feel like this "two naps is too much, one nap is not enough" phase is just tough and you have to go with the flow. Charlotte went through that bedtime antics phase and I posted about it on the Toddler forum. I got some really good advice about minimizing the time between last nap and bedtime (slightly earlier bedtime) and it actually worked very, very well.

to those with bad nights. Also happy to see some good nights in here!

 

[mellyboo]

We had A amazing night thank goodness we really needed it and I needed he sleep .. I kept her up till 8 to see what it would do well she woke up at 3am And 6 and up for the day at 740 yay! I went to bed when she did last night and when she woke up at 3 only for 5 mins even I couldn't get back to sleep I was like ok now, now I can't sttn!!! Ahaha .. I feel like a new person today yay!!

 

[Tess.ie]

Tessie, how many night feeds is she having regularly?

Well we were down to 2 for a while there, the first was anytime between 10.30-1am ish, and the second was between 4.30-5.30ish.
But at that time she was also going to sleep between 6 and 7, and waking round 6.30. Somehow lately her bedtime has crept back (the light long evenings dont help) and she isnt having such a big feed before she goes off to sleep.

The night feeding times now have no pattern, Sat night she hardly fed before bed but slept till 11 and had a big feed then. Last night she woke and fed well after 9 and again 12ish. 4.30 is normally a hungry time too.
I would like to put time limits on night feeds, but what if she really is hungry and wakes and wont settle and I eventually have to pick her up and feed her? Is that just going to undo my hard work to trying to get her back to sleep without feeding if it hasnt been long enough???

ETA Mellyboo thats great, you must feel like a new woman!! Hahaha, do we need Noelle to get you sttn again??!

 

[mellyboo]

Tessie, how many night feeds is she having regularly?

Well we were down to 2 for a while there, the first was anytime between 10.30-1am ish, and the second was between 4.30-5.30ish.
But at that time she was also going to sleep between 6 and 7, and waking round 6.30. Somehow lately her bedtime has crept back (the light long evenings dont help) and she isnt having such a big feed before she goes off to sleep.

The night feeding times now have no pattern, Sat night she hardly fed before bed but slept till 11 and had a big feed then. Last night she woke and fed well after 9 and again 12ish. 4.30 is normally a hungry time too.
I would like to put time limits on night feeds, but what if she really is hungry and wakes and wont settle and I eventually have to pick her up and feed her? Is that just going to undo my hard work to trying to get her back to sleep without feeding if it hasnt been long enough???

Do you have some curtains that can black out her room, that might solve that issue i find our bed time routine I start upstairs and i close my curtains in my room and her's are always closed so the upstairs is dark and i'll dim a few lights... i make it like it's still dark outside up there

Here it only gets dark around 930pm!

 

[stephie_corin]

So after a few days on two naps we are definitely back to three cat naps. Can I post our routine to see if anyone has ideas to tweak that might help night sleep:
530 awake
830 first feed and sleep - 30 mins
1130-1145 second feed and sleep -45mins/1 hour
330-345 third feed and sleep - 30/45 mins
630-7 asleep and last day feed
Around 10-10.5 hours awake time and 2ish hour naps in the day.
It's all baby led. I feed him when hungry and put him down when he is tired and I don't wake him once he is asleep.
He always wakes 45mins after I put him down and last night was every 45 mins after that

Any help or tips gratefully recieved!

 

[bananaz]

I think you guys are right, she probably is overtired. I'm going to give up on moving the nap for now and just put her down when she's ready and then move bedtime up and/or give her a second catnap in the afternoon if she needs it.

This morning she was up at 4:30 and I ran in to soothe her instead of waiting to see if she'd resettle herself. After 30 minutes of me bending over her crib patting her back she just sat straight up and started crying again So I fed her and put her back down. She protested at first but now she's really trying to go to sleep, so we'll see.

Aaaand she's up

 

[Noelle610]

Great news melly! It takes awhile to start STTN yourself

Tessie, at 6 months she may need a night feed, but probably one maximum. I think in your shoes I'd begin to gradually reduce the time spent feeding. So if she feeds for 10 minutes at each waking, perhaps you do 9 minutes (time it) for a few nights, and then reduce to 8 minutes, etc. The idea is that she'll start taking more during the day and need less at night.

 

[Noelle610]

So after a few days on two naps we are definitely back to three cat naps. Can I post our routine to see if anyone has ideas to tweak that might help night sleep:
530 awake
830 first feed and sleep - 30 mins
1130-1145 second feed and sleep -45mins/1 hour
330-345 third feed and sleep - 30/45 mins
630-7 asleep and last day feed
Around 10-10.5 hours awake time and 2ish hour naps in the day.
It's all baby led. I feed him when hungry and put him down when he is tired and I don't wake him once he is asleep.
He always wakes 45mins after I put him down and last night was every 45 mins after that

Any help or tips gratefully recieved!

Hmm.... Your schedule seems fine. Maybe try reducing your wake times a bit to see if the short naps are a result of overtired? You could try:

5:30am awake
8am-9:30am nap 1 (hopefully LOL)
1:30pm-3pm nap 2 (again hopefully )
6:30pm asleep

How do you respond to the night wakings?

 

[Noelle610]

I think you guys are right, she probably is overtired. I'm going to give up on moving the nap for now and just put her down when she's ready and then move bedtime up and/or give her a second catnap in the afternoon if she needs it.

This morning she was up at 4:30 and I ran in to soothe her instead of waiting to see if she'd resettle herself. After 30 minutes of me bending over her crib patting her back she just sat straight up and started crying again So I fed her and put her back down. She protested at first but now she's really trying to go to sleep, so we'll see.

Aaaand she's up

I think you just have to be really, really consistent with these early morning wakings. Maybe you honestly just do a quick diaper check to make sure she hasn't pooped and then don't go in there until 6am. Be a mean mommy

I do think that more daytime and/or an earlier bedtime may help though.

 

[stephie_corin]

Hi Noelle, when he wakes I always offer nursing first and if he's not hungry I rock him until he falls asleep. Thanks for the tips. Ill try put him down sooner in the morning but its tough - he fights me at every nap for ages!!!

 

[polaris]

Melly - Yay! So pleased that you had a good night even if you didn't sleep for the whole of it yourself. I think the good nights do give you back hope that this isn't going to go on forever and these babies will eventually sleep!

Tess - I would go ahead and put time limits around feeding at night. I do think it helps. I'm never able to be totally consistent with it either because I will end up feeding her if nothing else works but at least it means feeding isn't the first thing that I turn to and that she is learning to go back to sleep without being fed every time. You could maybe start with a 3 hour limit, she should easily be able to go 3 hours without a feed I think.

Stephie, if he's fighting you for naps in my experience that is often due to wake times being too long. He might actually settle easier and nap for longer with a shorter wake-time. Then once he's sleeping better and less tired his wake-times will naturally lengthen.

Bananaz, what worked really well for DS when he was in that in-between stage of the 2:1 nap transition was waking him from his morning nap after 30-45 minutes and then giving him his longer nap after lunch, I think it was about 1.30 to 3. Otherwise he would have a long nap in the morning and either refuse to sleep at all in the afternoon or just have a cat-nap and neither worked well for him. Just another option to consider, it's so difficult trying to figure out what is going to work well for the overall sleep pattern.