Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[Twister]

Last night was the same as previous nights, woke at 12 and 4 for a feed. Don't feel comfortable doing cc at these times as I believe she's genuinely hungry.

Night 4 of Ferber doing intervals of 12,15 and 17 minutes. She's really fighting it tonight. Keeps going silent but starts again. It's been a busy day with lots of stimulation and again naps haven't been great which I think has something to do with it. Part of it may be her fighting it as well? Not sure if she's capable but I'm sure I read somewhere that on day 3/4 of Ferber they kind of figure out what's going on and fight a bit more against it? Or have I completely made that up? Lol.

 

[Noelle610]

Nope, that's right Twister! Sounds like it's going great.

 

[polaris]

Twister, I think I have read somewhere that some babies will "relapse" on nights 4 and/or 5 for whatever reason, before going back to sleeping better again.

Girls, I really hope none of your LOs get chicken pox until they are a bit older! I've just been through it with my 3.5 year old and it wasn't exactly pleasant but it wasn't too bad really. But poor Clara, this is just a nightmare. She is just so itchy and she is still getting millions of new spots so we aren't even at the peak yet. Last night was awful and she's only managed to have one nap today because she just can't get to sleep. She will fall asleep for two or three minutes and then just wake up screaming and clawing at her head and head butting and throwing herself round the cot and flailing her arms and legs. I just don't know how to help her. OH is up with her at the moment trying to settle her, thank God he is here tonight, I don't think I could have handled another night like last night on my own.

 

[diggory77]

Ah you girls are blooming brilliant! I haven't got her naps anywhere near spot on, as we've been swimming today and this always tires her out. But I made sure I put her to bed 1.5 hours after her last nap, guess what? Asleep in ten minutes!
X

 

[seaweed eater]

That's great, Diggory

Keep it up, Twister. I'm sorry she is fighting but you are doing so well, just stay consistent. My LO has a similar feeding schedule on good nights. I think that is reasonable at their age.

Polaris, I'm so sorry, that sounds so stressful. I really hope you are past the worst of it soon and things start getting better.

 

[Boo44]

Ohhh Polaris that sounds truly awful I really hope she's over the worst soon xxx

 

[Tess.ie]

Polaris - Poor Clara, it must be awful for babies being so uncomfortable and not knowing why I hope she feels better soon

Twister - It does sound like you have things on the right track now, well done. Im sure that next week bedtimes will get even easier

I think we might be making progress....I have been working on an earlier bedtime, round 6.30 most nights. Tonight it was 6! And last night Chloe even slept a 4 hour stretch, yay, but it was from 1.30-5.30 and while she went back to sleep after a feed I couldnt. Typical! Fingers crossed she does a nice long stretch tonight.
She does still seem to be waking up less than an hour after she goes to sleep. Any suggestions? The days are roughly - Wake 6.30, Nap 1 8.30/9ish-10.30ish, Nap 2 12.30/1ish-2ish, Bed 6.30ish. Would a shorter morning nap and a longer afternoon nap work better?

Gosh without this thread and all you wonderful wise girls I would be totally lost!!

 

[Noelle610]

So happy to hear that Tess.ie!

 

[seaweed eater]

Tessie, so glad to hear about the progress your schedule sounds great so I don't know what to suggest there. Except maybe try capping the total nap time at 3 hours? Mine is best on around 2 hours, but I know that's at the lower end. Maybe experiment with waking her a bit earlier on days when she's had a lot of nap time and see if it helps. I don't know, what do other people think?

Bedtime has been a mess here again tonight. Naps today were unusually bad too, which I'm sure made bedtime worse. It seems a lot like teething so I'm thinking it's just that. Discussed with DH -- after the second bottom incisor is through we'll revisit sleep training. Not until then. Hope it's soon.

 

[stephie_corin]

Polaris, I really feel so bad for you and your family. I'm a sorry Clara is struggling so much with the chicken pox.

Twister I think those feed times sound pretty reasonable. C always feeds at least twice overnight.

Diggory, glad naps went well!

Tess, we always have a wakeup exactly 45 minutes after going down. I'm not sure why but it seems to be pretty common. I haven't tried this personally but Baby Whisperer has an idea called nudge to sleep, or something like that, where you go in about five minutes before the expected wakeup and nudge them to slightly rouse them (not awake but so they stir) and it helps them slip into the next sleep cycle without waking. Apparently you do it for a few days and they should start sleeping through. C is very easy to get down after that first waking so I've never bothered trying anything.

SE, I really hope that tooth pops out for you soon!! I now have an understanding of how completely awful teething is! Did you give iboprufen again?

Cully is definitely over his teething and back to his usual sleep. Since implementing the dream feed he now does a good stretch from 10-1 which was so restorative for me last night. He feeds then sleeps another hour, feeds again and sleeps another hour but then from 3-530 he's up every 30-45 mins. I remember Noelle saying the early wakings were due to over tiredness. He's getting around 1.5-2 hours sleep a day. I usually aim to have him down by 6. Last night it was closer to seven but his naps where wacky yesterday due to teething. I'm not sure what tweaks I can do to his routine because if I extend his naps bedtime gets pushed out later, so the total sleep is the same.

He's up 530-6 every day and naps at 8ish, 1130ish and 3ish and I've been extending the middle nap to about an hour by rocking him.

Is it just a matter of waiting it out? Or time to shake things up and try 2 naps?!?

 

[seaweed eater]

We gave ibuprofen and it still took nearly 2 hours to get him down. But I think part of it was overtiredness from terrible naps.

Are you sure C is not ready for two naps? Does he go down well for all his naps at the moment? Oh, I just noticed that you asked about that. Maybe...but I'm not sure what you are describing corresponds to needing two naps. I would expect a baby dropping a nap to fight naptimes and bedtime, not to have extra NWs.

IME it's the early wake up (done with sleeping) time that's really a reliable sign of overtiredness, not so much the frequent early morning night wakings, if that makes sense. But if Noelle disagrees with me, I'd trust her. All babies sleep more lightly during those hours so I think anything that disrupts their sleep earlier does so even more then. It sounds like he can stay asleep for maybe 2 cycles earlier but always just one toward the end. I am sad to say it since I know you are happy with nursing to sleep, but I would probably work on self-settling in whatever way you are comfortable doing.

But if you want to try two naps, he's old enough that he's probably going to transition soon anyway. If it's horrible you can always go back.

 

[mrssunshine78]

Polaris the chicken pox sounds awful, poor Clara.

Jasmine's sleeping seems to be getting worse, I know it's not really bad like some, but it's still tiring. She's been waking 5-530, but waking in the night sometimes stirring for about an hour, usually self settles, but other times cries a lot so one of us goes in. She's just cut two teeth last week, she now has 8, so hoping for a little break now.

Will someone have a little look at her schedule and see if you think there are any tweaks I could make please

Wakes 5-530
Nap 830-9 for about 1 hour
Nap 2-230 for an hour to 1 hour 30
Bed 7

She doesn't feed through the night anymore, I'm still bf and she has her last bf around 1830 and then feeds around 6am, she's on 3 solid meals with 2 bf, one around 10, the other around 130-2, I try my very best not to let her feed to sleep, but occasionally on an afternoon she does.

 

[stephie_corin]

Hi Sunshine! I'm no expert but could you cut shorter the am nap so she's getting slightly less day sleep and put her to bed earlier - like 630 - she might sleep a bit longer at night or it might help the night waking? Maybe make the second nap a bit earlier? Then she might be getting closer to 11-12 hours at night, which I think they are meant to have at your LOs age.

SE, sorry he was fighting bed time even with the pain relief! Thanks so much for the advice. He does fight naps and he shows tired signs really early (maybe 1.5 hour after waking) so I think the catnaps aren't cutting it any more. Tomorrow I might try extending naps and aiming for two naps. I just need him to sleep longer than 530am!

I've been trying the gentle removal method but he really fights it. He has such a strong suck to sleep association. PU/PD is hard too as he weighs almost 12kg and it kills my back! I'll persevere though. If anyone has any other gentle self settling techniques I would love to hear them.

 

[mrssunshine78]

Thanks stephie, will give that a try. I'm pretty sure she should be having longer to sleep at night, the 11-12 hours sounds right from my reading.

I don't have advice on gentle sleep techniques, we just tend to rub lo's back and that mostly resettles her.

 

[stephie_corin]

I never understood the back rubbing thing, does she sleep on her tummy or do you do it while holding her? X

 

[Tess.ie]

Seaweed-teething and overtiredness is a horrendous combination, the worst! I had to sit up all night holding chloe about a week ago. There is light at the end of the tunnel though, Chloe's 2nd tooth came up about 5 days ago and last night for the first time in months she only woke twice, for feeds 10.30 and 3am then up for the day at 6.45. Lol she even slept better than I did
Hopefully munchkins teeth come up really soon.

 

[mrssunshine78]

I never understood the back rubbing thing, does she sleep on her tummy or do you do it while holding her? X

She sleeps on her tummy, has done since about 4 months because she just kept waking with trapped wind when she slept on her back

 

[polaris]

We had a really awful night last night. Poor Clara, I just felt so sorry for her. On top of the chicken pox, she had been awake since 11.50 a.m. so she was also totally overtired and wired. She just cried and tried to scratch herself and violent kicking and jerking and headbutting basically all night. We tried to settle her and walked around the house with her for seven hours and she slept fitfully for maybe an hour and a half of that time, then OH took her out in the car for a two hour car drive at 2 a.m. and thankfully that did allow her to sleep but she woke almost as soon as he got home. I then sat up with her on the couch until 7 a.m. with her feeding and crying and dozing for five minutes before waking up again. At 7 a.m. her brother got up so we were up for the day. But there is light at the end of the tunnel I hope! I put her down for a nap at 8.45 and she actually just went straight to sleep in the cot and is still asleep two hours later! I'm so relieved that she is actually able to get some sleep. Please let this mean that the worst is over!!

 

[Noelle610]

for teething and poor sleep!

 

[stephie_corin]

Polaris that sounds like a nightmare. Make sure you and DH look after yourselves too. Big hugs xxx