Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[seaweed eater]

This time I'm the one with the fever...so of course Munchkin chose last night to nurse 4 times and wake up with a dirty diaper at 5 AM I probably should have let him cry a couple of the times instead of nursing, but I just didn't have the energy.

DH thinks it's because he took two naps yesterday, that he was undertired and should start taking 1 nap on weekends too. Interesting idea.

Will respond to you all later...please keep your fingers crossed for us that Munchkin doesn't get whatever I have!

 

[stephie_corin]

I'm so sorry you are unwell! Let me guess, Munchkin hasn't had a morning dirty diaper for weeks ... Keeping my fingers crossed that he doesn't catch anything. Hopefully because you caught it first you can give him some immunity through breastfeeding x

 

[polaris]

SE - so sorry to hear that you are not well. Sods law that Munchkin woke up frequently when you didn't have the energy to deal with it. Fingers crossed he doesn't get the bug.

Stephie - how are naps going today? How is Cully, does he still have a temperature?

Kitabird - glad that you had a better night. Stick around here and you will soon be a sleep "expert" like the rest of us (tongue in cheek!) and able to offer sleep advice to anyone.

Amy - yay! Go Chloe napping in the crib! That's brilliant progress!

Lysh - welcome back to B&B. It sounds like you have got nights sorted anyway so I'm sure naps will fall into place if you can just get a decent run at it, as you say. What age is your daughter? Is she on one nap or two?

AFM, Clara is still really not very well at all. Her temperature is still up and down and she's just generally miserable. However, despite being still unwell, she has actually been sleeping a bit better for the last couple of nights. She is actually doing 2-3 hour stretches which is a huge improvement on our nights recently! Fingers crossed we are starting to come out of the current bad sleep patch.

 

[stephie_corin]

Thanks Polaris - his temperature was 39.9 about 2 hours ago - he's just settling now. It's his first fever and it's so scary when their little bodies are burning up! We've been very lucky and I know this is just a minor virus but I feel so bad for him.

I guess I'm having just a small taste of how stressful it's been for you with poor Clara being sick, and some of the others who have had sick babies. I'm glad Clara is sleeping better! That is wonderful news! Hopefully she is on the mend and sleep will only get better from here

SE I hope you are feeling better.

I hope everyone else had a lovely weekend x

 

[seaweed eater]

Wow, Stephie, 39.9 is quite a fever. I'm glad he's settling and hope it gets much better soon

Polaris, sorry Clara's still unwell, but it seems promising that you're having better sleep. Hope that continues and she's back to her usual self really soon

Darn viruses! Leave all of us alone!

 

[lysh]

Polaris- She is still two naps...tried to steer her to one nap a day, but she is not ready. She is taking shorter morning naps (typically) so we are almost there. Each day seems to vary a bit with her...always did, she was never easy to schedule (did not help that when working she has multiple caregivers) but it is what it is. I have a week coming up where I am not making plans in hope of getting her into a better nap cycle- one in which I do not have to hold her for half of it!!!! She is a year old btw!

 

[stephie_corin]

Lysh, I will definitely be holding my son for naps at 1 year, don't feel too bad good luck with getting her nap/naps sorted.

We are back to lots of rocking here. I'm just running with it until he feels better. Hope all is well with you all!

 

[AmyS]

SE - Hope you're feeling better! I agree with Stephie that he's probably getting all of your good immunities through breastfeeding!

Polaris - Glad Clara is sleeping better, but I hope she gets better soon!

Stephie - How's cully doing now? Is his temp back down? That is scary - I absolutely freaked the first time Chloe got sick - but I was only 2 weeks into being a mom!

lysh - Noelle was just on here a few weeks ago talking about the 2-1 nap transition - it sounds like a tough one if they aren't ready. I have been holding my daughter for all naps too since birth, but she's having such a hard time at daycare that I had to stop doing that this weekend!
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We had a pretty good weekend - she learned how to spit (yippee), how to say "quack, quack", and finally how to clap! Her sleep Saturday night was awful, but I think it was teething. Sunday morning, she couldn't suck on a bottle because they hurt so bad.

Last night was back to normal sleep - only up once for a bottle. Except that I tried to put her down at 7pm, and she drank her bottle, was almost asleep, then sat straight up, said "quack, quack" while clapping her hands and then she spit. I guess she thought it was a good time to practice!! I tried again 1/2 an hour later, and she went down easily then.

Naps!!! I put her down for all naps that we were home for - only 1 was in the car. Yesterday, she did an hour in the morning, only 20 minutes for the 2nd nap (but I think her little legs were cold), and the third nap was an hour, but she was still tired, so I fed her again, and she went back down for another 45 minutes. So I gave daycare my "Chloe-crib-transfer-tips" this morning, because I think the problem they are having is that she wakes up when they put her down. 99% of the time, I can put her down, and she will wake up slightly and then resettle quickly.

 

[lysh]

Amys- That is the problem...when I go back to work it will be harder for my husband, MIL, and SIL to get her to nap. She nurses to sleep with me still and I have not had the heart/energy to stop that. Plus, they can't hold her like I do! The minute I put her in her crib for naps she screams. At night we were consistent so she goes in her crib without a problem 99% of the time...naps are harder!

 

[AmyS]

Amys- That is the problem...when I go back to work it will be harder for my husband, MIL, and SIL to get her to nap. She nurses to sleep with me still and I have not had the heart/energy to stop that. Plus, they can't hold her like I do! The minute I put her in her crib for naps she screams. At night we were consistent so she goes in her crib without a problem 99% of the time...naps are harder!

I still feed to sleep for naps and night too! I am not going to stop that because she really isn't eating solids very well right now, and I can get her to drink the most when she's tired.

I don't know if this will help, but this is my trick for keeping Chloe sleeping when I put her down. She always wakes up when I try to get my arm out from under her head, and she starts rolling over to her tummy. If I let her do that, she will usually wake up all the way and start screaming at me. So when she starts rolling, I put one hand on her front and one on her back, and I hold her on her side for about 30 seconds. She immediately settles back down and falls to sleep. Then, if she rolls over later, it doesn't usually wake her up.

Obviously, nothing is fool-proof! And she will probably decide that doesn't work for her anymore when I try it tonight!

 

[lysh]

Amys- That is the problem...when I go back to work it will be harder for my husband, MIL, and SIL to get her to nap. She nurses to sleep with me still and I have not had the heart/energy to stop that. Plus, they can't hold her like I do! The minute I put her in her crib for naps she screams. At night we were consistent so she goes in her crib without a problem 99% of the time...naps are harder!

I still feed to sleep for naps and night too! I am not going to stop that because she really isn't eating solids very well right now, and I can get her to drink the most when she's tired.

I don't know if this will help, but this is my trick for keeping Chloe sleeping when I put her down. She always wakes up when I try to get my arm out from under her head, and she starts rolling over to her tummy. If I let her do that, she will usually wake up all the way and start screaming at me. So when she starts rolling, I put one hand on her front and one on her back, and I hold her on her side for about 30 seconds. She immediately settles back down and falls to sleep. Then, if she rolls over later, it doesn't usually wake her up.

Obviously, nothing is fool-proof! And she will probably decide that doesn't work for her anymore when I try it tonight!

lol.....Yeah, well I still have yet to find the magic touch with my girl. I will do the arm test to make sure she is fully asleep. The minute I bend an inch over the crib she tenses and starts screaming. lol She has me at a loss!!!! If I leave her in the crib for a few, she gets so upset she wakes herself up and does not nap.

 

[seaweed eater]

Lysh, welcome back! :wave: It's great that things are going better for you at night. I don't know how you are transferring her, but I believe that with a baby this age it's important for her to go down awake or at least wake up for a second as you put her down. I think Amy gives great advice. It's good that she is able to go down well at night -- I'm sure if you are equally consistent during the day she'll learn fast.

Amy, sounds like great progress for you and your baby duck! Lucky her that she's so cute when she's resisting sleep, huh? I'm optimistic that things will go better for her at daycare this week!

Polaris, how has today been? Hope C is doing better and you all have a good night

Stephie, thinking of you and your boy, hope he is feeling much better soon. I think rocking him for now is perfectly appropriate.

AFM, I haven't had a fever since last night so in a couple days if Munchkin's not sick we can breathe a sigh of relief!

We did have a strange night though...late but easy bedtime, resettled himself with no intervention twice, but also a 1:30 MOTN party (in which I decided to nurse twice contrary to my own rules, which might have been a terrible idea). And he woke up at 5 and went back to sleep until 6:30, which is very late for him. I know it's probably crazy, but I sort of think DH might be right about the one nap...his second nap went until 2:30 and we were ready for bedtime at 7 but there was not even a hint of a sleepy cue until 7:45. Could also be developmental, though. No idea!

 

[kitabird]

Hi, hope everyone is feeling better.
Amy, the quack quacking sounds really cute, if a bit unhelpful!
SE, sounds like you had a pretty good night. Munchkin seems young to just have one nap so maybe it's just a phase and he'll go back up to 2 again. I say go with whatever works, anything for a bit of sleep!
Felix had a good night. I heard him quite a lot, but rather than crying he was just chattering and moving around mostly. Cried for a feed at 5 then settled again until 7 He has only been having 2 naps the past few days. The first in the morning for 20-30 mins and then one around lunchtime for about an hour. Don't know how long this will last, he likes to keep me guessing!

 

[seaweed eater]

Thanks Kita, I know he's very young to drop to one nap. The thing is that during the week he's at daycare and tends to take just one nap there. I think if he were home he'd definitely still be on two, but I wonder whether he has trouble adjusting his schedule from day to day. He's only been napping in his new daycare classroom for a few weeks, I think, so maybe he'll add back a second nap there as he keeps getting used to it? Impossible to know!

You're right that it wasn't a bad night in an absolute sense by any means, but worse than I've come to expect, and I'm just not really sure why he had such trouble settling and therefore what would have been best to do about it...if something was truly bothering him then I would definitely have wanted to pick him up, but I don't want to "rescue" him just because it's challenging for him to go back to sleep, and it was quite unusual for him to be so awake. It's the mystery that's more bothersome than anything! Probably developmental. In general, developmental sleep disruption tends to be a sort of grey area between something being "wrong" and the kind of frustration you can just help them cope with...not sure how to deal with it!

Glad you guys had a good night the nap schedule sounds good! How has his mood been, does he seem tired?

 

[polaris]

SE - could well be developmental. Anyway that's what I tend to put everything down to when I've nothing else to blame. I think he's quite young to drop to one nap but I guess you could always try it and see if it works? The other possibility I can think of is the exact opposite - that maybe he is a little bit cumulatively overtired from only having one nap on daycare days? I still can't figure out whether Clara is overtired or undertired most of the time but sometimes it seems like she wants longer wake-times when she's overtired compared to when she's well-rested! Another of the many mysteries of baby sleep!

Amy, the quacking, clapping, and spitting at bedtime sounds so cute! Well done on getting her to take naps in the crib - hope it translates to better daycare naps too!

Lysh - I feed Clara to sleep (or very nearly) for all naps and bedtimes too. No-one else ever puts her down for naps at all. I am pretending that this is going to resolve itself before I go back to work (luckily not until after xmas when she will be almost 17 months). When do you have to go back to work?

Any sign of Gaiagirl? Haven't seen you on here in what feels like ages, just wondering how you are getting on?

Clara is much better today although still not 100%. Also she is taking some steps! Only about 3 or 4 little steps at a time so far. So exciting!!

 

[seaweed eater]

Polaris, so glad to hear Clara is on the mend, and how exciting about the steps!! You will have a little walker in no time! I hope sleep was even better last night.

You may well be right about Munchkin being overtired. He only napped half an hour today and was miserably tired in the evening. After going to sleep he woke up at the 25 minute mark and was difficult to console. I let him cry for a while, calmed him in arms twice, and then finally nursed him.

I think I am going to try changing my approach to ST. Usually I'm of the opinion that you "do or do not, there is no try" but I'm thinking about implementing a "try really really hard" approach. Amy, I think this is more similar to what you've done with Chloe?

My plan is to give him a really good chance to SS but intervene before the point when it seems like he might throw up. Try PUPD first, but nurse if that doesn't seem to work. Always put down awake. And monitor myself to avoid panicking or making any decision out of desperation, and give it a few minutes even if he's screaming. Really, the throwing up scenario just doesn't work on any level -- obviously it's horrible for him, I hate seeing him fall asleep like that, and I don't think he really practices SS that way either.

I just want to try it for a few days and see what happens. It might very well be a disaster. But if it works well, I'll be really happy. And if it is a disaster, I guess at least I'll feel better about the super consistent style of ST.

I'd like to do this for all NWs but I'm having my monthly supply dip so I'm afraid he might really be hungry tonight...so I'll probably be a little quicker to nurse for now, at least a couple hours or more after the previous feed, though I'll still wait a few minutes first. And once my supply's back I'll try it for all NWs.

What do you guys think?

 

[stephie_corin]

Amy, Chloe quacking is hilarious! What a clever girl, I can't believe you taught her to quack!!! And clapping too ! So cute well done with naps, too! Thanks for the wonderful transfer advice too! I really really like your technique. Have daycare had any better luck?

Lysh, it's nice you have family to help care for your LO. I know the feeling that no one can quite do it like you. I hope you find a solution.

SE, I'm sorry about your MOTN party. I think Munchkin has shown you how clever he is and my first thought was he might quickly discover a hole in the rules I like your new, more flexible approach though. Now our babies are older and more emotionally mature we should be even more sensitive to their needs. Your approach sounds great! I think I'm in the minority but I think one nap sounds like its suiting Munchkin really well! Although - like Polaris says, it might be overtiredness.

Kita, I'm glad Felix had a good night! It seems to be a fairly common theme on this thread - bad sleepers who take cat naps I agree, thing will probably change again soon - these babies like to keep us on our toes.

Polaris, that is awesome news! Both regarding Clara feeling better and the WALKING!!! It must be bitter sweet though. I want Cully to start standing independently and walking but the day he does I will break down crying. How was Clara's night sleep? How are her naps these days? I meant to ask you how you've dealt with naps when she's sick... Do you stick to the normal routine?

Cully's fever finally broke last night (or I think it did). He's had no meds since 7pm last night and it's now 930am and no fever in sight. He's tired but hopefully on the mend.

We are back to rocking at every nap and night waking. It's strange how a few bad days can derail progress completely.

We are still also GWTF and I'm trying to put him down when he seems tired rather than going by the clock. He's having lots of trouble falling asleep so I wonder if he is overtired (hence the rocking even for naps).

I'll give him a few days to get back to normal and hopefully we can work on the rocking again

 

[polaris]

Good morning everyone.

We had a really awful night again last night, I'm not really sure why. She was not too bad until about midnight, just a couple of wakings and back to sleep after a quick feed. But from then on she was very unsettled, she was trying to go back to sleep but just kept waking up and seemed to be crying in pain. She did settle back to sleep for about 1.5 hours after having pain relief but she woke again at 4 a.m. and I ended up having to get her up for a bit because she was just inconsolable. She did go back to sleep eventually (after more pain relief) but still kept waking up every 20 minutes or so for the rest of the night. I don't really know what was going on with her. She seems OK this morning. She still has a sniffly nose but doesn't seem unwell. Maybe it is her teeth? I'm not sure if I can see one of her top teeth under the gums. Maybe it's not that at all since the pain relief didn't really seem to have a huge impact.

Hope everyone else had better nights!!

SE - I think it sounds good to try a more flexible approach. I do think sometimes they just need a bit of extra help for whatever reason, even if they can self-settle. Thomas always self-settled and would have always gone into the cot awake because he didn't fall asleep feeding or in my arms. Also I did have "rules" with him like not getting him back out of the cot after he went in at bedtime and not more than one night feed. But I was quite flexible with the rules - if he really wasn't able to settle I figured there was something wrong so I would pick him up and try to settle him a bit and then put him back in the cot awake and that was often all he needed. Thomas quite often cried for five minutes before going to sleep (especially for naps, not usually at bedtime) but if he cried for much more than that or if it was a different sort of cry then I knew that was out of the norm for him so I would be more flexible then. I really did try very hard to stick to my rule about only one night feed but sometimes I ended up feeding him more often if he was in an unsettled phase. I think this sounds very similar to what you are suggesting for Munchkin and it worked well for us so fingers crossed it will work for you too.

Stephie, not surprising that you have been back to rocking when he's been so unwell. I think it's best to do whatever you can to help them to get to sleep when they are not well, because it's so hard for them to settle and yet they really need their sleep. To answer your question about naps, I have been going with the flow while Clara has been unwell. She has been sleeping late most mornings, often until 7.30 or even 8.30. Her wake-times have generally been at the shorter end of her normal range and her naps have mostly been short too, mainly 45 minute naps. Sometimes I have been extending her naps by nursing her back down if she wakes after 30 minutes and then she will often take a longer nap. She seems more tired than usual and I think her overall wake time during the day is less, but then she is awake more than usual during the night so it probably balances out! Glad to hear that Cully is a bit better.

 

[lysh]

seaweed eater- Yeah, I know she really should start going down somewhat awake. Honestly, it took FOREVER just to get her to sleep through the night (and STTN was 8:30-4:30 for a while. We finally got 8:30-5 or 5:30. Naps were always a disaster, so I am not counting those- but frankly, DH and I were so thrilled to finally get sleep that I was afraid to change anything!!!!! It is so easy to do our routine, nurse her, and down she goes without a struggle! However, that has been changing the last few nights. Baby girl is hyper and does not want to settle....it might be time to start that. From what I am reading, it seems your daycare is doing only 1 nap? I hear of that a lot and babies really not being ready for that.

Kita- When it comes to naps, my baby keeps me guessing too!!!!

Polaris- I go back to work in 4 weeks. I originally had to go back when she was 4 1/2months...it was hard- she was colicky and did not get out of it until 4 months, so I never had time to really work on a schedule before going back to work. We had family watch her, which was comforting, but at the same time she had 4 different caregivers. She gave them all a run for their money with naps and I just do not want another year of it. I am making sure that we have a good week coming up where there is nothing going on around 'nap time' so we can work on better routines.

Thank you Stephie- Yes, it is frustrating when something derails progress. At one point, dd would sleep for an hour and a half nap in her crib (with some crying but it was better than what she use to do). I would be thrilled...an hour and a half to clean on the weekends!!!! Then it went down hill and stayed there. However, when sick, we have to do what we have to do to make sure they get the sleep they need. Evenings usually go back to normal quickly because, again, that stays consistent day in and day out. I just think in general, for most, naps are harder.

Before baby girl starts typing and deleting this post, sending reply!

 

[AmyS]

kitabird - That sounds like a great night! And you are so right about the babies keeping us all guessing! Just when we get used to something...

SE - I understand your frustration about the developmental sleep issues. It really is hard to know how to deal with. I like your new ST term, "try really really hard"! It does sound very similar to what I do with Chloe at night. I do put her down asleep though, but she always wakes up a little when she hits the mattress. I usually give her 15 minutes to SS on her own - most of the time, I'll get up to go to her and she'll be back to sleep by the time I'm out of the bathroom.

Polaris - Yay Clara on taking steps!!!! That is amazing!!! So glad she's feeling better too! Do you think your bad night was developmental since she's starting to take steps? Like SE said, it's very frustrating, because there isn't much you can do to help them deal with those kind of sleep disruptions.

Stephie - What a relief that the fever is gone! I wouldn't worry about going back to rocking - he's already shown you that he can do it without. I bet once he's back to normal after a few days, you can try again.

Lysh - I hope you can get naps sorted out before you go back to work!
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Apparently daycare did not take my advice yesterday about how to put her down for a nap! She didn't take a nap at all in the morning, and had one 35 minute nap in the afternoon. UGH!!!! I guess she was happy all afternoon, but she does need her naps!

I ended up putting her to bed at 6:30, and she woke up at 10:15. I'm pretty sure she was chilly, so I put her sleep sack on her, she drank a couple of ounces, and then she slept very soundly until 6am.

And just because I don't mean to sound all braggy about the "quack" thing, it sounds like "cack cack". We only decided it was "quack quack" because of the toy she is constantly playing with.