Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[kitabird]

If he's just grumbling I leave him to it. When he gets upset we do pupd, which had progressed to just stroking his tummy rather than picking up. Last night nothing worked, he just didn't want to sleep. Eventually he'd been up so long that he was hungry, but even nursing didn't send him off, although I think it helped as he was asleep 5 or 10 mins after.
We have the rocking to sleep problem during the day. I end up going out in the pushchair most of the time because my back couldn't take pacing up and down with him anymore!

 

[bababas]

I hope everyone's having a good night. I'm a little scared of what tonight will bring. LO was super excited about crawling and cruising around and stayed up over an hour past his usual bedtime. He napped for a few minutes in the car (which he only does maybe 70% of the time now) so I'm sure that didn't help matters. I tried putting him down at 7 as usual but didn't want to put him in bed and then have to force the issue since we're sleep training now. I'm glad we waited, because bedtime was much easier than it would have been, but I'm afraid he'll be up super early tomorrow morning, etc.

did he just start crawling? if so congratulations

hope he wont wake up too early.

 

[bababas]

Noelle, you aren't going anywhere are you??!

Bababas, I'm so glad your OH managed to get Aron down! That's awesome news! If you are nervous about the boys' schedules clashing, I wonder if (when the third nap is dropped) you could play around with Aron'a schedule and get his bedtime to fall half hour later. Maybe let him sleep longer in the morning or take a longer afternoon nap.

SE, Munchkin is just having too much fun it seems! I hope he sleeps well and sleeps in

Our night was good - 1.5 hourly stretches I think and he was reasonably easy to settle. So we are now officially GWTF (going with the flow) and I'm open to him some days taking two naps and some days three (thanks Amy, it's good to hear this works for you guys!). I think it all depends on the length of his first nap, but I'm not going to extend his naps anymore. When he wakes, he wakes!

I'm working on some 'rules' to help guide me a little, so we aren't strictly GWTF I guess.

My next thing to tackle is rocking to sleep. I know I tried to fix this before with little success but I NEED to get it under control. I feel like rocking to sleep all through the night defeats many of the benefits of cosleeping. I have to sit up in bed and rock him at every waking.

Any ideas?? I feel stuck and not sure where to start. Should I just slowly stop rocking so much? I've tried cuddling him, jiggling him, nursing lying down but none of it works.

Where is Noelle going to? hope she stays.

i had an idea for when aron quits his 2nd nap. by then ívar starts day care again, he is in sumer vacation now, hence bit later bedtime coz i make them nap at the same time. by then ívar will go to the next class, i dont think they have naps. so he will be going to bed earlier by then. exactly when aron turns 6 months. so i will be putting them down 7 for sure since ivar has to wake early which will prolly wake aron.

have you tried letting OH make him fall asleep? or just lying him down on top of you? that works on aron when he is cranky on napping. or just sleep beside him and see what happens?

 

[bababas]

If he's just grumbling I leave him to it. When he gets upset we do pupd, which had progressed to just stroking his tummy rather than picking up. Last night nothing worked, he just didn't want to sleep. Eventually he'd been up so long that he was hungry, but even nursing didn't send him off, although I think it helped as he was asleep 5 or 10 mins after.
We have the rocking to sleep problem during the day. I end up going out in the pushchair most of the time because my back couldn't take pacing up and down with him anymore!

hope it is a short phase due to the crawling thingy. and he will be back to sleeping soon.

 

[bababas]

update on us.

on monday, OH managed to make aron fall asleep for night time while i was swimming. thats a big thing, that has never worked before.

tonight 0:30 he moved around a bit i gave him his pacifier, he took it and slept til 1:30 almost never happens. and he started lying on his stomach. i think it is his new favourite thing. slept til 4 so only 3 feedings. 1:30, 4 and 6.

i wonder if it has anything to do with that he likes to sleep on his stomach or that we started giving him puree.

but maybe tonight will be different

 

[polaris]

I feel like I've fallen way behind again!

Clara is much better, so it obviously was just a viral infection and not measles thank goodness! Her sleep was still absolutely terrible last night though, she did one long stretch in the early evening (2.5 hours) and then woke every 15 minutes or so for pretty much the rest of the night. I really hope this improves once she is fully better!

Stephie - I don't think you should feel bad about moving to two naps and then moving back to three. Later on I'm going to look back through this thread and find some of my posts about this EXACT same issue. Cully and Clara are like sleep clones sometimes! With regard to the rocking to sleep, I think I would be inclined to go cold turkey. However I would wait until you are feeling strong and committed as it will probably involve a few rough nights. I think if you are right there lying beside him stroking his hair or nursing him if he wants it, there's no way that he can feel abandoned or frightened, so if he is crying it is just because he wants to go to sleep but can't quite get it figured out. I am going to try this with Clara for some of her multiple night feeds in about a month when she's a year old.

SE - hope your night went well despite the later bedtime.

Noelle - thank you so much for everything, if you do go then I really wish you and Charlotte all the best.

 

[mellyboo]

I havent been on here in a long time I've just been so tired and were leaving for vacation Friday morning..

SO when i think her sleeping can't get any worse it does seriously frig my life.

Last 2 nights were having 4 am partys in the crib and they last until 6 am although 4 am is when she is waking up for the first time which is great but seriously staying up for 2 whole hours in your crib ... really??

Yesterday absoulte refused to nap she stayed in her crib for a whole 3 hours i don't usually give in to her she doesn't cry nope just plays around and is super content being in there at the 3 hour mark i finally went and got her out because she wasn't napping ... she finally fell asleep around 2ish which just set off her entire day i ended up putting her to bed around 730ish-8 because she was just so exhausted from fighting sleep all day she was crashing..

Honestly, I can't wait to try and sleep train her when we get back because honestly her 4am partys are rough i think i'd rather wake up 4 times.

 

[bababas]

I feel like I've fallen way behind again!

Clara is much better, so it obviously was just a viral infection and not measles thank goodness! Her sleep was still absolutely terrible last night though, she did one long stretch in the early evening (2.5 hours) and then woke every 15 minutes or so for pretty much the rest of the night. I really hope this improves once she is fully better!

Stephie - I don't think you should feel bad about moving to two naps and then moving back to three. Later on I'm going to look back through this thread and find some of my posts about this EXACT same issue. Cully and Clara are like sleep clones sometimes! With regard to the rocking to sleep, I think I would be inclined to go cold turkey. However I would wait until you are feeling strong and committed as it will probably involve a few rough nights. I think if you are right there lying beside him stroking his hair or nursing him if he wants it, there's no way that he can feel abandoned or frightened, so if he is crying it is just because he wants to go to sleep but can't quite get it figured out. I am going to try this with Clara for some of her multiple night feeds in about a month when she's a year old.

SE - hope your night went well despite the later bedtime.

Noelle - thank you so much for everything, if you do go then I really wish you and Charlotte all the best.

good that is is not measles polaris. hope the sleep gets better after she is well. aron had a terrible cold at about 3 months followed by another one, that was like 1 month no sleep for me.

 

[bababas]

I havent been on here in a long time I've just been so tired and were leaving for vacation Friday morning..

SO when i think her sleeping can't get any worse it does seriously frig my life.

Last 2 nights were having 4 am partys in the crib and they last until 6 am although 4 am is when she is waking up for the first time which is great but seriously staying up for 2 whole hours in your crib ... really??

Yesterday absoulte refused to nap she stayed in her crib for a whole 3 hours i don't usually give in to her she doesn't cry nope just plays around and is super content being in there at the 3 hour mark i finally went and got her out because she wasn't napping ... she finally fell asleep around 2ish which just set off her entire day i ended up putting her to bed around 730ish-8 because she was just so exhausted from fighting sleep all day she was crashing..

Honestly, I can't wait to try and sleep train her when we get back because honestly her 4am partys are rough i think i'd rather wake up 4 times.

that is rough. i remember when they refuse to nap at that later age. mine lo is headed there soon i guess. time flies.

 

[polaris]

Things here are good - after a few days of very late naps and late bedtimes, Clara took a third nap today from 4.45 to 5.30 and was asleep by 7.15 and hasn't woken up yet. I wonder if we are back to three naps again for the moment - and if so, maybe some of our difficulties were due to having dropped the third nap too soon? The annoying thing is that if we are back to three naps, then we'll have to go through the transition to two naps in another month or so, so as soon as I get her into a good routine it will all change again!

Stephie, this was back in the middle of April so Clara was nearly 8 months and had been on two naps for a good two months. As it turned out, she only went back to three naps for about two weeks and then settled into a much more predictable pattern of two regular long naps during the day.

One thing that going through this final nap transition with Thomas is teaching me, is that it is probably pretty normal for them to have some days/weeks where they need to nap more than others. With Thomas, he is older so he can tell me if he's tired or not and it's just generally more obvious from his behaviour. He has gone through stretches where he really seems ready to drop the nap totally and other stretches where he really obviously still needs it. So really why should the other nap transitions be any different? I think nap transitions are naturally more of a gradual process rather than something that happens abruptly. Although for parental convenience an abrupt transition would be the preferred option!!

 

[mellyboo]

I havent been on here in a long time I've just been so tired and were leaving for vacation Friday morning..

SO when i think her sleeping can't get any worse it does seriously frig my life.

Last 2 nights were having 4 am partys in the crib and they last until 6 am although 4 am is when she is waking up for the first time which is great but seriously staying up for 2 whole hours in your crib ... really??

Yesterday absoulte refused to nap she stayed in her crib for a whole 3 hours i don't usually give in to her she doesn't cry nope just plays around and is super content being in there at the 3 hour mark i finally went and got her out because she wasn't napping ... she finally fell asleep around 2ish which just set off her entire day i ended up putting her to bed around 730ish-8 because she was just so exhausted from fighting sleep all day she was crashing..

Honestly, I can't wait to try and sleep train her when we get back because honestly her 4am partys are rough i think i'd rather wake up 4 times.

that is rough. i remember when they refuse to nap at that later age. mine lo is headed there soon i guess. time flies.

She was never bad at all she used to be around 4-5 months then she got super good.. now its getting harder and oh my is she ever cranky because she just won't nap no matter what i do lol... I have a feeling this vacation isn't going as smoothly as the one she's going to have to nap in her stroller because we are going with my parents and its kinda on there time type of thing lol

 

[stephie_corin]

Things here are good - after a few days of very late naps and late bedtimes, Clara took a third nap today from 4.45 to 5.30 and was asleep by 7.15 and hasn't woken up yet. I wonder if we are back to three naps again for the moment - and if so, maybe some of our difficulties were due to having dropped the third nap too soon? The annoying thing is that if we are back to three naps, then we'll have to go through the transition to two naps in another month or so, so as soon as I get her into a good routine it will all change again!

Stephie, this was back in the middle of April so Clara was nearly 8 months and had been on two naps for a good two months. As it turned out, she only went back to three naps for about two weeks and then settled into a much more predictable pattern of two regular long naps during the day.

One thing that going through this final nap transition with Thomas is teaching me, is that it is probably pretty normal for them to have some days/weeks where they need to nap more than others. With Thomas, he is older so he can tell me if he's tired or not and it's just generally more obvious from his behaviour. He has gone through stretches where he really seems ready to drop the nap totally and other stretches where he really obviously still needs it. So really why should the other nap transitions be any different? I think nap transitions are naturally more of a gradual process rather than something that happens abruptly. Although for parental convenience an abrupt transition would be the preferred option!!

Thank you so much Polaris! This makes me feel so much better... It's uncanny how similar they are! I really believed that nap transitions were a linear thing but hey, what are a few more words for me to eat!

 

[AmyS]

SE - How did your night go? Glad he was easy to settle, but hope you didn't get up quite as early as we did this morning!

Queen Stephie - Another good night for you both! Not sure what to do about the rocking to sleep - that's got to be hard on your back! I agree with NotNic, that your best approach might be cold turkey, but you'll have to pick something that is soothing to him.

kitabird - We went through the rough patch at night too when Chloe was trying to crawl.

bababas - Chloe started sleeping better too once she was sleeping on her stomach. That's a good night for you!

polaris - Glad Clara is feeling better! Hopefully her sleep will improve, I can't imagine every 15 minutes! That's rough!

Melly - I hate 4am!! If Chloe wakes up at that time, I pretty much have to hold her to keep her sleeping. From 4-6 is such a light sleep for a lot of babies, I've heard. I hope your vacation is lovely!
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We had a bit of a rough night last night. She didn't want to settle until around midnight, and then she was restless on and off. Finally she woke up for the day at 5:15. I dropped her off at daycare with the "She's cranky," warning. Lucky them! Hope she naps for them today!

I also got asked specifically today if I hold her for naps, because they haven't been able to put her down to sleep in her crib at daycare. So I HAVE to start working on that!!! I just feel like if I don't hold her, then she will never get a good nap in, and our nights will start getting bad again!! I'm not sure how to get her used to her crib for naps. Not looking forward to this.

 

[kitabird]

Things here are good - after a few days of very late naps and late bedtimes, Clara took a third nap today from 4.45 to 5.30 and was asleep by 7.15 and hasn't woken up yet. I wonder if we are back to three naps again for the moment - and if so, maybe some of our difficulties were due to having dropped the third nap too soon? The annoying thing is that if we are back to three naps, then we'll have to go through the transition to two naps in another month or so, so as soon as I get her into a good routine it will all change again!

Stephie, this was back in the middle of April so Clara was nearly 8 months and had been on two naps for a good two months. As it turned out, she only went back to three naps for about two weeks and then settled into a much more predictable pattern of two regular long naps during the day.

One thing that going through this final nap transition with Thomas is teaching me, is that it is probably pretty normal for them to have some days/weeks where they need to nap more than others. With Thomas, he is older so he can tell me if he's tired or not and it's just generally more obvious from his behaviour. He has gone through stretches where he really seems ready to drop the nap totally and other stretches where he really obviously still needs it. So really why should the other nap transitions be any different? I think nap transitions are naturally more of a gradual process rather than something that happens abruptly. Although for parental convenience an abrupt transition would be the preferred option!!

Thank you so much Polaris! This makes me feel so much better... It's uncanny how similar they are! I really believed that nap transitions were a linear thing but hey, what are a few more words for me to eat!

Reading this, I think nap transition might be part of it too. He has mostly been refusing his third nap recently. Unfortunately he's a catnapper, so that means he only totals about an hour of sleep a day. He woke from his second nap at 1:50, it's now 5:50 and he's wanting to go to bed

 

[stephie_corin]

Kitabird, pupd never worked for us - its great it worked for you! Depending on how patient you are feeling you could give it a few more days to see if he sorts things out by himself or you could start sleep training. I find the MOTN parties usually happen around milestone time.

Bababas!! What a great update from you! Maybe Aron is a stomach sleeper? I've heard a lot of babies sleep better on their tummies! Unfortunately Cully will only sleep once rocked... I will get DH to practice putting him down though, thanks!

Polaris, I am so sorry her sleep is so bad. I'm glad she's better but you need some rest! How are you holding up? You're right about waiting... I started today but he became hysterical and the only way I could calm him was by rocking. I need to make sure he's not teething or anything as well as being mentally prepared!

Melly, I'm sorry you are having such a hard time. I hope you have a good vacation and things are ok when you are away. I agree with Amy - 4am is rough!!

Amy, you poor thing! So you got less than 5 hours sleep I don't know what the answer is with naps... Cully would never nap if I didn't rock him and lie with him. Have you tried the drowsy but awake approach? You could gently transition away from holding her for the whole nap... Maybe shorten the amount you hold her each time?

Kitabird, I just saw your update - Cully is a cat napper too and I got longer naps from him once we switched to 2 naps.

I have no idea what is going on tonight. He's woken 5 times in the space of about 1.5 hours crying hysterically we just gave him some iboprufen so hopefully that helps.

 

[seaweed eater]

Bababas, sorry to have missed some of your earlier posts but it sounds like a really great update! Stomach sleeping is so wonderful for some babies. I remember someone on this thread saying that that could be a big part of why some babies become better sleepers when they're older than when they're newborn -- because they learn to roll over! I hope the better sleep continues how was last night?

NotNic, thank you for posting about your nap transition. Your approach makes a lot of sense, but I haven't heard of anyone doing things quite that way so it's good to read about! Will keep in mind for when we hit that stage. Hope you are both doing well...I agree, the difference between 5:30 and 6 is huge!

Kitabird, sounds like about the right time for a nap transition, I'm afraid I'm sorry your nights are so rough at the moment. I think you may be right about the crawling. Mine finally just started moving but he's been rocking and backward crawling and inching around for months, and we certainly had some sleep disruption when he first started doing all of that. I hope it gets better soon I would give it a few more days if you feel you can.
Regarding naps, as the mother of a chronic catnapper I will just say that it doesn't have to be the kiss of death that it seems. Switching to two naps, as Stephie said, will probably fix things -- it did for every baby I've ever heard of except my own. And mine still got through it all right. I think for the same reason he finds it hard to stay asleep sometimes -- distractibility -- he also can manage to push through long wake times when necessary. So I'm sure you will be fine either way, if this is the right time to make the transition (and it sounds like it is).

Melly, I'm so sorry about your MOTN struggles. 4 AM is so demoralizing. Soon you'll be on to sleep training and it will all be a memory! Hang in there

Amy, sorry about your restless night. Midnight is late! I think you'll find an approach that works for both of you and that she'll adapt well to getting into her crib. You did so well with her nighttime sleep and getting her out of the rock 'n' play. You seem to really have been able to tailor your approach to her temperament and to what you're comfortable with, and I'm sure your intuition will lead you the right away again with this. I don't think you have to worry about your nights getting bad -- maybe temporarily but maybe not, and if they do, I'm sure they will go right back to being better again.
So, how did today go at daycare? Did she nap well?

Polaris, so glad to hear it isn't measles!! I'm really sorry about every 15 minutes. I remember that so well from a couple weekends ago. It is so so draining. I hope she is better very soon and you can both get some rest. Hang in there.

Stephie, poor little C, and poor you!! I hope he settled down and you got some long stretches in tonight. Such a long rough patch for you guys...you are due for some better days soon. And some teeth.

AFM... listen to this: Munchkin took a 1.5-hour nap at daycare today!!!! I know it probably will not happen again for a month, but proof of the possibility is very encouraging. It means he resettled himself at 45 (that's always the case when he takes long naps, plus they saw him do it today) which means he is finally maybe getting used to his daycare crib!

Also, tonight was night 4 of sleep training and I was scared of bedtime going badly again, since night 4 can be a tough one, but it was completely fine. we'll see what tonight brings. Last night was good in the end...so far I haven't had to leave him to cry in the middle of the night yet. I know it will happen soon, and I'm nervous about that. Maybe tonight will be the night.

This is far too much. I know the curse is inevitable now.

 

[seaweed eater]

Oh I also meant to say, speaking of all the nap transitions, that I wonder whether Munchkin is already in his 2-1 transition or whether he'll go back to 2 once he's more comfortable going to sleep at daycare. Obviously it's not optimal for him, and if he were at home he'd still be on 2 every day, but he does seem to have somehow settled into a real one-nap schedule -- his nap usually starts around 12-1 PM. It seems like the other shoe will have to drop sometime but for now I don't really have any choice but to go with it...

 

[stephie_corin]

SE!!! What a fantastic update! I'm so happy for you! STAY AWAY CURSE! I know it's super early but I have spoken to SO many mums who have said their babies were on 1 nap at 10 months (ok, so it's only 2 or 3 mummies but I still think it's more common than we are led to believe). I think that if Munchkin is happy then it's fine for him to take one nap. Or two when he is at home and one at day care.

We had a rough night. I think it's teething but who knows. How can a baby be teething for months and have only two tiny teeth?! I'm sure we are in the middle of a developmental leap too. The last few days he has been letting go of things and standing for a few seconds and his cruising is getting really good too.

It's been very challenging for me to GWTF. I've said before how much I struggle without a routine or formula. I know many of you are the same! I'm hoping this regression/teething/developmental leap passes and we go back to a more predictable routine soon!

I hope everyone has a good night!

 

[NotNic]

Seaweed - Finlay and I are sleep training rebels! He regularly naps past 4pm and I rarely limit his naps. I'm all for an easy life!! Though I did shoot myself in the foot about revealing a slightly later wake up call as he treated me to a 5.15am this morning. However I stuck firm and didnt get him up until after 6am. I don't want him getting the idea that's a good time to wake up! Those extra 30mins make all the difference to his and my grumpiness levels.

I agree that munchkin may be ready to begin transitioning. Finlay started at 10mths but he's now 14mths and still needs that little cat nap to help him some days. We found he would have some weeks of one naps, others of two and even once he settled in to nursery - 3 nap days for them! Unheard of! Before I joined this thread I didn't know babies needed 3 naps c.6mths. Such a sleep training doofus! Something I forgot to mention when we just began transitioning was that we used cuddle and quiet time to calm him down. Often he'd get to 5pm and be in a real tizz where he'd refuse that second nap. Turning it into a nice time out really helped us to improve his mood. Good luck!

Stephie as you probably can tell, im a bit more GWTF. Find yourself some timings that help you out. We have one sort of rule for night time and that's if we are home he must be in his cot by 8pm. He can play or listen to music, but after that its mummy and daddy's time. No books, no cuddles etc. Sure we go up if he's upset and there are some days he's completely hyper, so we end up bringing him back down but the 8pm thing really seems to work. He now gets cuddly about 7.45 and tells us he's ready to go up. It's also a firm stop so the day doesn't drag on. Are there things his does around the same time? Find those and fix your day around them, or go out. He can sleep if he's in his stroller and you can get on with things. Be a daredevil and do your timings rather than his.

 

[AmyS]

SE - Great daycare nap!! Maybe your ST at night is helping? Repeat after me, "There is no curse, there is no curse, there is no curse".

Stephie - Love the new pic!!! He has changed so much from your old pic! Sorry for the rough night, but they are much easier to cope with when you know that a big leap is on it's way. That is amazing that he is letting go of things and cruising so well! I can't wait until Chloe is at that stage! I know she's technically about the same age, but they still adjust her age developmentally by those 5 weeks she was born early, so I'm trying to be patient!

kitabird - I have noticed lately that Chloe actually sleeps better at night when she doesn't sleep so much during the day - have you noticed anything similar?
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Chloe napped for 15 minutes in the morning at daycare yesterday! I picked her up at 1pm (for my afternoon off). We had plans to visit some friends right away, and fortunately, she wasn't really cranky! She did fall asleep on the way home, and I put her down instead of holding her - she slept for a total of 1 1/2 hours. I'm sure it would have been shorter if she hadn't have been so tired.

I will keep putting her down for naps. If she wakes up within 30 minutes, I'll try rocking her back to sleep and putting her back down for now. If that doesn't seem to work, I'll have to come up with a different plan!