Rant - Feeling so hopeless about sleep!

[Shadowy Lady]

ok ladies I need your advice. Besides the one off night, Sofia sleeps till 12, eats and then again till 5:30-6. Now when she wakes up at 12, she barely eats. I know coz DH gives her EBM then and she barely takes like 2 oz. So I know she's not even hungry and could go till 5:30 am or so w/o a feed.

I think we should give her a dream feed at 11 pm. However, DH thinks we should just eliminate that feed using Ferber and not introduce df'ing at this stage. What would you guys do?

 

[Noelle610]

I introduced a dream feed late in Charlotte's life (at 6 months) because I wanted to respond to all of her night wakings consistently (by not feeding). It did work for us. I dropped the DF when she was 7 months over the Christmas holiday essentially because I was being lazy and she didn't wake for it. That said, we had three solid meals firmly established at that time so I'm confident she didn't need it.

You could definitely try the dream feed and see how it works - Not all babies really "take" to it (either they won't eat, they fully wake up or they just wake up again at their "normal" time later), but some do and it works well for them. It can't hurt!

 

[AngelUK]

I've been wondering this too. I guess I am getting greedy though. I mean Dominic woke me at 12 briefly moaning in his sleep a little and then woke for his bottle at 12:40 and then slept till 6 YAY. But of course I would love to eliminate that midnightish feed. We usually go to bed at 10 as to have a chance of enough sleep even if the boys wake at around 5 again. But if we gave a dream-feed say at 11, would he then sleep till 5 or 6? Or would he then wake 4 hours later as per his usual feeding schedule. Hm. Also, I think he does usually wake when we feed him, so it wouldn't be a dreamfeed as such.
Isn't it funny/sad that I am now so scared of disrupting Dominic's sleep that I don't even dare try this slight modification in his feeds? lol

 

[lysh]

Up at 3:30 again. ugh Been so busy I have not had a chance to catch up....between baby girl waking up so freaking early everyday and craziness at work I have not had much relaxing time. I wish I could get her to sleep later, but she is seriously WIDE awake!!! Out of desperation I have even been bringing her back into bed hoping that will help, but she wants nothing to do with sleep. Even putting her to bed a little later has not helped. When 4:30 starts to feel like sleeping in, we are in trouble!!!!! To top it off, I am getting anxieties at night again about the lack of sleep and I could not fall asleep until 11. So I got 4 1/2 hours of sleep. It is going to be a LONG morning and day at work! Hope you ladies fared better than I did last night.

 

[lysh]

3:45 am is LOs new wake up time! ugh

Bananaz-How about oatmeal? That is our staple food- I give it to her 3 times a day with either a fruit or veggie. Some days she eats more than others, but I still offer 3x a day. I am sorry she is having a backslide....I go through the same thing and it is o frustrating.

Shadowylady- I agree- get her checked out. It could be an ear infection or maybe early teeth getting ready to pop out?

megangrohl- Good luck...we have not hit separation anxiety and I am dreading it.

Question- What did you ladies do to try to get on a nap schedule?? Since LO typically wakes up at all different times I am having a hard time with this, yet I am wondering if more of a schedule would help her?

I'm a little paranoid that LO might have an oat sensitivity, but maybe I will add oatmeal back to my diet first and she if she's okay. I loooove oatmeal so that would be an easy fix.

About nap schedules, Elsie kind of naturally developed one between 6 and 7 months but she still has random days (okay, sometimes weeks lol) where it's off for whatever reason because her "optimal wake time" is in flux. I don't think it could hurt to try a schedule though, you should let us know how it goes

I keep hoping it will naturally happen- she has never been good with schedules (as much as I love schedules, she has always been too inconsistent!). The problem now, is that I am only with her 2 full days a week and during the week I have different family members who watch her. I feel like that makes it harder. I wish I could tell them that she needs to take a nap at such and such times, but I have no idea. She fights naps too. I can get her to sleep nursing, but no one else can do that for me. I feel like I need a good 2 weeks home to try to figure out her 'new' schedule. And what sucks, is that she is up SO early that she is really ready for a nap when I have to leave for work. That is always a battle....I try to nurse her to sleep, but then when I have to leave she freaks. My DH tried to have her cry a bit in the crib to see if she would nap, but she just wakes herself up and gets hysterical.
Oh well......this too shall pass!!!!

 

[aliss]

Big hugs lysh. I am also for a sub-4 wakeup here- its 25C out right now (the same for you I suppose, you aren' too far) and our heater broke. I haer him laughing in his bed (the older one obviously!!), argh, but Im ignoring it until he gets mad. I gave him an extra blanket.

Ironically the 3 month old is still asleep after his 3:30am feed. Tag teaming yet again

 

[Noelle610]

I am an early riser, but man oh man.... 3:30am is still the middle of the night! I feel for you ladies, I really do.

Question: Sleep is generally good here, but Charlotte has been doing something odd. She "stirs" about 45 minutes after going to sleep. She lets out a couple fusses/cries and seemingly goes straight back to sleep. This doesn't bother me at all. I'm still up and I rarely need to soothe her, but I don't understand why she is doing it. Everything I've read suggests she's overtired, but I don't think so! Yesterday she woke at 6:30am and napped from 8:40am-10:15am and 1:30pm-3:00pm. Perfect, right?! Then I put her to bed around 6:45pm. Could it be developmental? She's just learned to crawl and we're smack in WW37.

 

[NickyKB]

Sorry I'm a long term silent stalker! Just wanted to say my LO does this 45 minute stirring - sometimes just a bit of noise sometime 1-2 cries sometimes 5 mins of crying! He doesn't do it all the time but just occasionally he'll have a week of doing it and then it'll go again - he does seem to do it more when teeth are coming or when he's ill but sometimes we just don't seem to see a trigger.... Most of the time he settles himself very occasionally it goes on for a lot longer and he's working himself up so we go in but that really is unusual...

It does seem to happen to quite a few babies (when it started i found a thread where quite a few mummies had replied) a lot found they had to go in and do a brief shh/pat to stop it turning to a full wake up. I agree it never seemed to be when my Lo was particularly overtired.

HTH x

PS have thought about replying before to shadowy as my Lo is still in an arms out woombie at 9 months i'm just trying to get him out of it now starting with naps!

 

[Noelle610]

Sorry I'm a long term silent stalker! Just wanted to say my LO does this 45 minute stirring - sometimes just a bit of noise sometime 1-2 cries sometimes 5 mins of crying! He doesn't do it all the time but just occasionally he'll have a week of doing it and then it'll go again - he does seem to do it more when teeth are coming or when he's ill but sometimes we just don't seem to see a trigger.... Most of the time he settles himself very occasionally it goes on for a lot longer and he's working himself up so we go in but that really is unusual...

It does seem to happen to quite a few babies (when it started i found a thread where quite a few mummies had replied) a lot found they had to go in and do a brief shh/pat to stop it turning to a full wake up. I agree it never seemed to be when my Lo was particularly overtired.

HTH x

PS have thought about replying before to shadowy as my Lo is still in an arms out woombie at 9 months i'm just trying to get him out of it now starting with naps!

Welcome to our party! Thanks for your comment. I'm glad to hear this isn't uncommon. At 8 months, Charlotte is definitely teething on and off, so perhaps that's it. I'm just waiting for the next couple to pop through

 

[megangrohl]

Lily does it too, and she is definitely not overtired. I think its just them slightly waking and resettling themselves. I also think it has to do with development. It is not an everyday thing just once in a while - usually when she is learning something new. There is tons of brain activity going on so it may also upset them a little bit.

EDIT - She is also cutting her 5th tooth and had a bad day yesterday so it could also be down to teething. And like you, if I go in to settle her she gets mad so I just leave her. It is a good thing anyways so she learns to self settle.

 

[AllyTiel]

I am an early riser, but man oh man.... 3:30am is still the middle of the night! I feel for you ladies, I really do.

Question: Sleep is generally good here, but Charlotte has been doing something odd. She "stirs" about 45 minutes after going to sleep. She lets out a couple fusses/cries and seemingly goes straight back to sleep. This doesn't bother me at all. I'm still up and I rarely need to soothe her, but I don't understand why she is doing it. Everything I've read suggests she's overtired, but I don't think so! Yesterday she woke at 6:30am and napped from 8:40am-10:15am and 1:30pm-3:00pm. Perfect, right?! Then I put her to bed around 6:45pm. Could it be developmental? She's just learned to crawl and we're smack in WW37.

Noelle, I've had this happening lately. But its closer to an hour and a half to 2 hours after she goes to sleep. And super good naps for the day too! Like 9:00am to 10, then 1pm to 2, then 4pm til 5pm. But after I put her to bed, she ends up waking up fussing those few hours later. Really not longer than a minute, but I don't know what's causing it. She goes right back to sleep. She does it about one other time in the night. She let out a few fuss cries and 6:20 this morning and went back to sleep then too.

 

[mrsbeano]

Will have a proper read soon but had an awful night last night. 4 wakings and hee would only settle after 2/3 oz on the first 3. I don't get it? Sttn for 3 nights last week & then stopped and worse than before.

The only thing I can think of is that he's getting thirsty because of a stuffy nose. Oh well, who needs sleep ay?

 

[Noelle610]

I am an early riser, but man oh man.... 3:30am is still the middle of the night! I feel for you ladies, I really do.

Question: Sleep is generally good here, but Charlotte has been doing something odd. She "stirs" about 45 minutes after going to sleep. She lets out a couple fusses/cries and seemingly goes straight back to sleep. This doesn't bother me at all. I'm still up and I rarely need to soothe her, but I don't understand why she is doing it. Everything I've read suggests she's overtired, but I don't think so! Yesterday she woke at 6:30am and napped from 8:40am-10:15am and 1:30pm-3:00pm. Perfect, right?! Then I put her to bed around 6:45pm. Could it be developmental? She's just learned to crawl and we're smack in WW37.

Noelle, I've had this happening lately. But its closer to an hour and a half to 2 hours after she goes to sleep. And super good naps for the day too! Like 9:00am to 10, then 1pm to 2, then 4pm til 5pm. But after I put her to bed, she ends up waking up fussing those few hours later. Really not longer than a minute, but I don't know what's causing it. She goes right back to sleep. She does it about one other time in the night. She let out a few fuss cries and 6:20 this morning and went back to sleep then too.

I'm glad I'm not the only one! I just leave her be and she settles herself, just as your LO does. Sometimes Charlotte will do it again around 4am or 5am, so I sympathize.

 

[Noelle610]

Will have a proper read soon but had an awful night last night. 4 wakings and hee would only settle after 2/3 oz on the first 3. I don't get it? Sttn for 3 nights last week & then stopped and worse than before.

The only thing I can think of is that he's getting thirsty because of a stuffy nose. Oh well, who needs sleep ay?

Yuck, sorry you had a rough night. It might be the stuffy nose. Do you run a humidifier in his room?

 

[Shadowy Lady]

Lysh - hugs 3:30 is way too early. How does your LO nap during the day?

Nicky - welcome to our little gathering here I'm transitioned Sofia outta the Woombie finally and it only took one night of fussing for 1.5 hours or so. We started with sleep though then tackled naps...

Aliss - ughhh I hear you on the weather. -30deg this morning in Ottawa and of course that's not factoring windchill which we get plenty of :/ How far is Alex' room from yours?

AngelUK - I know I'm getting greedy too! I just *know* Sofia doesn't need that midnight snack...I mean we've reduced it to 2oz no way she's hungry for that...after midnight she typically sleeps till 5-6 am.

Mrsbeano - aaaaawww that would so annoy me...sttn and then back to worse. Though I must say we went from sttn between 2-3.5 months to the mess we were in so I totally understand the feeling.

So I didn't do the dreamfeed last night mainly coz she woke up earlier. I had told DH to give her a dreamfeed at 11:30 pm but she woke up at like 11:25 pm :/ so he let her fuss a bit and then gave her the 2oz at 11:45. She then proceeded to sleep till 5 am, had a feed and then down again till 7 am....7am is early for her but she had pooped (yay).

I'm still not sure about this random 2oz at midnight. She gets VERY annoyed if she doesn't get it but how could she need it so bad when it's only 2oz??? I think I'm gonna ride it out and enjoy the 5 hour sleep between 12-5 am and then try weaning her again in 2-3 weeks.

Btw, I came across this article:

https://www.troublesometots.com/what-you-need-to-know-about-sleeping-through-the-night-part-3/

I read all three parts and feel kinda better about Sofia's sleep. Based on this she's actually doing good as she always goes down awake and goes to sleep by herself. The article suggest that's the biggest challenge with babies. They also advise night weaning after 6 months. The rest of the writer's philosophy agrees with Ferber. What do you guys think?

 

[Noelle610]

Shadowy Lady, I think it's fine to proceed with the small feeding in the middle of the night if it means you get more sleep for whatever reason. Sofia's still pretty young.

I really like the Troublesome Tots website! It gives some really great advice. With night weaning, I'm not sure. For us it was wonderful at 6 months, but I think that was mainly because of reflux. Charlotte was having a lot of milk overnight and essentially the feedings were causing more night wakings - she was waking because she of reflux/gas/wet diaper/etc. When we gently encouraged her to get her calories during the day, it worked wonders. All of the sources I've read are all over the board on this. Ferber recommends 3/4 months while Weissbluth ("Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child") says two night feedings until 6 months and one night feeding until 9 months or even a year is very normal. He says that if the baby falls straight back to sleep afterward, it's not an issue. I tend to trust Weissbluth a bit more on this issue and the total night sleep needed (I think Ferber's numbers are super low) since his research is more current on these aspects.

 

[Noelle610]

Here are the books I keep referring to, if anyone is interested.

https://www.amazon.com/Solve-Your-Childs-Sleep-Problems/dp/0743201639/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1358953381&sr=8-1&keywords=solving+your+childs+sleep+problems

https://www.amazon.com/Healthy-Sleep-Habits-Happy-Child/dp/0449004023/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1358953425&sr=1-1&keywords=healthy+sleep+habits+happy+child

This one is good for moms of "special" babies like mine

https://www.amazon.com/Your-Fussy-Baby-Marc-Weissbluth/dp/0345463005/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1358953446&sr=1-5&keywords=weissbluth

 

[Shadowy Lady]

Noelle - I agree! I like Ferber's method for sleep association and it worked wonders for us (and everyone i know). But it's impossible to get 3/4 months old to sleep through w/o feed. I thought I could do it since Sofia sttn at a younger age but I guess things changed

I have the Healthy Sleep Habit,...book and started it but never finished. It's written a bit more "wordy" than Ferber's book. But based on what you say I tend to agree more with his philosophy on age of night weaning

 

[Sunnie1984]

Hi Girls!

Shadowy Lady - For Seren, I found that the dream feed made her worse. This was at about 9 weeks, so I don't know how relevant it is.

She wouldn't sleep in her pram when we were out for dinner one night (very unusual) and ate loads. So when we got home at about 9pm, she went down no problem.

My DH refused to give her a dream feed at 11, as she'd only just gone to sleep. So we went to bed, I was convinced she'd wake at about midnight for a feed, as she's missed the dream feed, but she never did and STTN. So we dropped the dream feed, and she STTN even when she went to bed at 7:30pm as usual.

Noelle - Seren does this too. I don't know what causes it, but I don't go in to her unless is turns into real crying, as I find it wakes her up, and otherwise she'd just settle.

Megan - sorry you have teething on board, it sucks!

We are having a weird time over here. I think she's over the teething. She's STTN aside from a wake up at 4am and 5am which last about 5 mins each, and she goes back to sleep.

But our day times have gone astray completely. She has cried all morning for the last two mornings.

She seems to be holding onto her wind, and not burping. This is usually a sign of teething, but I'm not sure she still it. She constantly has her fingers in her mouth, but I think it's to try to get the wind out

She won't sleep in the cot for more than 30 mins, and after that first nap she has horrendous wind until she naps in the pram (which is on an angle) and then she is all smiles.

Can reflux reappear? It's obviously not as bad as it was originally as there's no projectile vomiting, but it just seems strange that naps in her cot seem to bother her. Although night times in the cot seem to be ok

So I've made use of our Jamie Oliver cookbooks to prop one end of the cot a little So I'll see if it makes a difference for her naps tomorrow.

It's a mystery and I have no idea what's going on!

xx

 

[Noelle610]

Noelle - I agree! I like Ferber's method for sleep association and it worked wonders for us (and everyone i know). But it's impossible to get 3/4 months old to sleep through w/o feed. I thought I could do it since Sofia sttn at a younger age but I guess things changed

I have the Healthy Sleep Habit,...book and started it but never finished. It's written a bit more "wordy" than Ferber's book. But based on what you say I tend to agree more with his philosophy on age of night weaning

After reading his book multiple times, I've come to the conclusion that the reason Ferber thinks babies can STTN from 3/4 months old without a feed is that he defines "through the night" as like 8 hours. Current research shows most babies need between 10 and 13 hours of night slepe to prevent becoming overtired, so his definition is kind of irrelevent now. I used to attend a lactation support group and the lactation consultant who ran it said it's reasonable to expect babies in the 4-6 month age group to wake 6 hours after bedtime for a feed and then every 3 hours subsequently. That seems way more reasonable to me.

Yes, the Healthy Sleep Habits book is super wordy! You don't need to read the whole thing. Just read the chapter for on babies 5 months old plus. It's really insightful!