Santa... Real or Not?

[Natsku]

Ooo a fun "nativity" play over here is Star Boys which is about a knight being sent by Herod to kill the baby boys - lovely!

 

[robinator]

Would Jesus approve of the celebration of his birth on December 25 considering its origins? The day of Jesus’ birth is unknown. Nowhere do the Scriptures direct us to celebrate that birth, nor is there any evidence that early Christians did so. In contrast, the Bible provides the exact day of Jesus’ death, and he commanded his followers to observe that day. (Luke 22:19) Clearly, Jesus wanted emphasis to be placed, not on his birth, but on the value of his sacrificial death.—Matthew 20:28.

I posted waaaaay back in this thread that I could care less what day of the year Jesus was born; it's pointless arguing a date no one can prove or disprove..... I'm okay with the observation of 25 December.....

But where does the Bible say not to celebrate Jesus' birth? Early Christians didn't celebrate a lot of things.....

 

[ShanandBoc]

Would Jesus approve of the celebration of his birth on December 25 considering its origins? The day of Jesus’ birth is unknown. Nowhere do the Scriptures direct us to celebrate that birth, nor is there any evidence that early Christians did so. In contrast, the Bible provides the exact day of Jesus’ death, and he commanded his followers to observe that day. (Luke 22:19) Clearly, Jesus wanted emphasis to be placed, not on his birth, but on the value of his sacrificial death.—Matthew 20:28.

I posted waaaaay back in this thread that I could care less what day of the year Jesus was born; it's pointless arguing a date no one can prove or disprove..... I'm okay with the observation of 25 December.....

But where does the Bible say not to celebrate Jesus' birth? Early Christians didn't celebrate a lot of things.....

Whether Jesus was born on dec 25th or not really isnt the main point or argument, its why that date was chosen, to coincide with worship of pagan Gods, its idolatry.

The fact that the date of Jesus’ birth is not mentioned in the Scriptures, although they are explicit about the date of his death, should be a warning to Christians. It is not that this date was not known to Bible writers. Instead, it is as if it were deliberately ignored, almost as if it were purposely hidden. Nothing in the Sacred Scriptures—not even one word—indicates that we should celebrate Christ’s birthday. Indeed, had it been intended that we do so, the Divine Record would at least have given the date.

Exactly to the contrary of this day that owes so much to paganism is the one celebration that Christians are told to keep. This celebration that Jesus instituted, he said: “Keep doing this in remembrance of me.” (Luke 22:19) That statement was never made about Jesus’ birth. The commemoration of his death, is the only ceremony the Bible commands Christians to keep- the exact date and how it was to be celebrated was detailed for us.

I think im beginning to sound like a broken record, sorry lol!

So, No the bible doesnt specifically say "do not celebrate Jesus birth" But does it really need to?

Theres many things the bible doesnt specifically say 'do not do', we weren't given a long list of donts in the new covenant because most things can be traced back to see if they break any of Gods laws - Worship only the true God and do not practice idolatry being two of them.

I think the biblical evidence its pretty self explanatory really. And no they didnt celebrate lots of things we celebrate today because most celebrations have their roots firmly in paganism or false religion or church traditions to appeal to the masses rather than to be in harmony with Gods word and pure worship. It should matter to christians where these things came from (research the origins of many popular special days and their ceremonies that are celebrated today - including birthdays)

Like i said if u wish i can pm a documentary and see if u still think it doesnt really matter or that Jesus would be pleased with being associated with such things.

Maybe we will leave it at that? Agree to disagree?

 

[robinator]

Fair enough

 

[Ozzieshunni]

What I don't understand is Pagen holidays existed long before the Bible was written, so isn't the Bible copying some of those Pagan holidays?

 

[ericacaca]

To me though the whole story of Jesus' birth is one of hope, light, love and promises. And it is right that this should be celebrated. If Jesus was around when the Pagans were I believe he wouldn't avoid them, he wouldn't say no to joining them for drinks and decorating and giving gifts. But he would have taken every opportunity to speak of his story of hope and light and love... and thats what every christian should do at any time of the year but I can kind of see why the church decided to celebrate the birth of our Saviour during Winter Solstice, just like easter in Spring....

Father Christmas' story as already mentioned originated from Saint Nicholas. A Bishop who secretly put money/coins/gold balls in some poor daughter's stockings hanging over the fire so their Dad could afford their dowrys so they didnt go into slavery. And from that story children all over the world hang their stockings up in the hope that he might visit them. So I believe in Father Christmas because he did exist at some point in history and his lovely acts of kindness deserves to be remembered.

xxx

 

[freckleonear]

I don't often agree with ShanandBoc , but in this case I do. The Bible commands Christians to remember things like the Lord's supper and Jesus' death and resurrection. In those cases, dates or the acts of early believers set the precedent, but nothing is mentioned about celebrating Jesus' birth at all.

What I don't understand is Pagen holidays existed long before the Bible was written, so isn't the Bible copying some of those Pagan holidays?

As far as I'm aware, the only crossover between pagan festivals and Biblical feasts is Easter, which is just a coincidence. The Christian Easter is based on the dates of the Jewish Passover and therefore the historical dates of Jesus' death and resurrection, nothing to do with the pagan version. Over the years the Catholic Church did add several celebrations to pagan holidays, but those are not Biblical.

 

[Ozzieshunni]

The Pagan one is a fertility celebration, hence the rabbits and eggs

 

[robinator]

What I don't understand is Pagen holidays existed long before the Bible was written, so isn't the Bible copying some of those Pagan holidays?

I guess it depends on what you believe. Moses wrote the first five Old Testament books around 1500 BC, but the actual events happened up to thousands of years earlier.

As far as Pagan holidays existing before the Bible was written, I'm sure they were. Not everyone was a Jew or Gentile; there were all sorts of beliefs then, just like today. The Bible contains all sorts of different societies so I'm sure Pagans and their traditions are in there, too.

I don't know enough to argue that Christianity did/didn't copy Pagan holidays, but we definitely use some traditions. The only two Christian holidays I celebrate are Christmas and Easter, and they revolve around Jesus.

 

[Midnight_Fairy]

For me christmas is not about Jesus or the bible because I am not religious. We love santa though

 

[PitaKat]

To me though the whole story of Jesus' birth is one of hope, light, love and promises. And it is right that this should be celebrated.

Good tidings of great joy, Glory to God in the highest, peace on earth, goodwill toward men, these seem to me like things worth celebrating!

 

[ShanandBoc]

To me though the whole story of Jesus' birth is one of hope, light, love and promises. And it is right that this should be celebrated.

Good tidings of great joy, Glory to God in the highest, peace on earth, goodwill toward men, these seem to me like things worth celebrating!

Those things should be celebrated and remembered everyday

 

[PitaKat]

Certainly remembered, but I can't imagine doing a Christmas-type celebration every day! I'm joking, I know what you mean, ShanandBoc

 

[ShanandBoc]

Certainly remembered, but I can't imagine doing a Christmas-type celebration every day! I'm joking, I know what you mean, ShanandBoc

I could handle eating food like that everyday. Except id be the size of a house!

 

[PitaKat]

Certainly remembered, but I can't imagine doing a Christmas-type celebration every day! I'm joking, I know what you mean, ShanandBoc

I could handle eating food like that everyday. Except id be the size of a house!

Oh yeah, me too! But can you imagine cooking food like that every day???

 

[ShanandBoc]

oh no only if someone else did the cooking of course