I think i know the video you are talking about Dragonfly, its a very thought provoking watch.
Truth is virtually everything about christmas is pagan in origin, taken from rituals and symbols in worship to pagan Gods.
Even where Jesus is involved - the nativity scene and christmas story - It isnt true nor accurate to the account in the bible. Most people just accept it without even picking up a bible to check.
With the date, I think the most convincing evidence that Jesus couldnt have been born in December at all is because the bible says that shepards were living out doors at night tending to their flocks in and around Bethlehem at the time of his birth. The cold, rainy season usually began in October, and shepherds, especially in the colder highlands, such as those around Bethlehem, brought their sheep into protected shelters at night. The coldest weather, sometimes accompanied by snow, occurred in December.
The date was solely chosen by the church to coincide with pagan festivals and to encourage pagans into the church. Those festivals included the Saturnalia, in honor of Saturn, god of agriculture, and the combined festivals of two sun gods, the Roman Sol and the Persian Mithra. Those pagan festivals began to be Christianized in the year 350, when Pope Julius I declared December 25 to be Christs birthday. It is absolutely nothing to do with Jesus.
The bible doesnt give a date for Jesus birth, only his death. Its his death that was instructed to be commemorated.
As a christian i do not celebrate christmas, so no santa here, but our DD has two 'present days' a year. Just something we have decided to do so she doesnt feel as if she is missing out. Plus everyone loves to give and recieve presents!!
Its so magical because she does not know when they will be, they are a complete surprise for her
I think i know the video you are talking about Dragonfly, its a very thought provoking watch.
Truth is virtually everything about christmas is pagan in origin, taken from rituals and symbols in worship to pagan Gods.
Even where Jesus is involved - the nativity scene and christmas story - It isnt true nor accurate to the account in the bible. Most people just accept it without even picking up a bible to check.
With the date, I think the most convincing evidence that Jesus couldnt have been born in December at all is because the bible says that shepards were living out doors at night tending to their flocks in and around Bethlehem at the time of his birth. The cold, rainy season usually began in October, and shepherds, especially in the colder highlands, such as those around Bethlehem, brought their sheep into protected shelters at night. The coldest weather, sometimes accompanied by snow, occurred in December.
The date was solely chosen by the church to coincide with pagan festivals and to encourage pagans into the church. Those festivals included the Saturnalia, in honor of Saturn, god of agriculture, and the combined festivals of two sun gods, the Roman Sol and the Persian Mithra. Those pagan festivals began to be “Christianized” in the year 350, when Pope Julius I declared December 25 to be Christ’s birthday. It is absolutely nothing to do with Jesus.
The bible doesnt give a date for Jesus birth, only his death. Its his death that was instructed to be commemorated.
As a christian i do not celebrate christmas, so no santa here, but our DD has two 'present days' a year. Just something we have decided to do so she doesnt feel as if she is missing out. Plus everyone loves to give and recieve presents!!
Its so magical because she does not know when they will be, they are a complete surprise for her
It always feels like a cop out, Jehovah's witnesses make such a big thing about not celebrating Christmas, yet have present days, which I don't see any difference between that and a non Christian celebrating Christmas, it's just about exchanging gifts, what's the difference? As Christians we accept that the 25th of December is not the specific date off Christ's birth, yet it's just a day to remember and celebrate! As for the nativity, we read it direct from the bible, so I don't see your point, yes you get some varying interpretations of it, but my church and many I have seen, other than school ones, use verses directly from the bible.
I think i know the video you are talking about Dragonfly, its a very thought provoking watch.
Truth is virtually everything about christmas is pagan in origin, taken from rituals and symbols in worship to pagan Gods.
Even where Jesus is involved - the nativity scene and christmas story - It isnt true nor accurate to the account in the bible. Most people just accept it without even picking up a bible to check.
With the date, I think the most convincing evidence that Jesus couldnt have been born in December at all is because the bible says that shepards were living out doors at night tending to their flocks in and around Bethlehem at the time of his birth. The cold, rainy season usually began in October, and shepherds, especially in the colder highlands, such as those around Bethlehem, brought their sheep into protected shelters at night. The coldest weather, sometimes accompanied by snow, occurred in December.
The date was solely chosen by the church to coincide with pagan festivals and to encourage pagans into the church. Those festivals included the Saturnalia, in honor of Saturn, god of agriculture, and the combined festivals of two sun gods, the Roman Sol and the Persian Mithra. Those pagan festivals began to be Christianized in the year 350, when Pope Julius I declared December 25 to be Christs birthday. It is absolutely nothing to do with Jesus.
The bible doesnt give a date for Jesus birth, only his death. Its his death that was instructed to be commemorated.
As a christian i do not celebrate christmas, so no santa here, but our DD has two 'present days' a year. Just something we have decided to do so she doesnt feel as if she is missing out. Plus everyone loves to give and recieve presents!!
Its so magical because she does not know when they will be, they are a complete surprise for her
It always feels like a cop out, Jehovah's witnesses make such a big thing about not celebrating Christmas, yet have present days, which I don't see any difference between that and a non Christian celebrating Christmas, it's just about exchanging gifts, what's the difference? As Christians we accept that the 25th of December is not the specific date off Christ's birth, yet it's just a day to remember and celebrate! As for the nativity, we read it direct from the bible, so I don't see your point, yes you get some varying interpretations of it, but my church and many I have seen, other than school ones, use verses directly from the bible.
Im truly sorry you feel that way
Not all Jehovahs Witnesses have present days at all tho, Its not like its something we practice or anything, just some of my friends do who have small children etc and we liked the idea as well. Its a personal choice as parents. And its not about exchanging gifts or expecting gifts or anything in return but rather about giving them, Of course we buy her stuff at other times too!
Growing up i never had present days as such, my mum would just randomly buy me something and id come home and it would be in my room, not wrapped or anything and not a certain amount of times in a year or anything like that.
If i didnt buy DD presents to unwrap id probably be criticized that she was missing out. I dont want her to feel that way either. We arent evil parents who deny our children gifts lol
Theres nothing wrong with gift giving or getting together as a family, these are not the things as a christian i have an issue with. We just choose to do it at other times instead so we are not involving ourselves with all the aspects of xmas that are non christian and tbh in opposition to the bible.
In regards to the accounts in the bible of the nativity etc, this is what i was referring to......
The three wise men, were actually sent by King Herod, in an attempt to locate Jesus to have him killed (unbeknown to the 3 wise men mind you - he told them he just wanted them to report back to him once they had located him so he could do obeisance or an act of worship to Jesus). He ordered that all boys under the age of 2 be murdered (in which he was successful but Jesus escaped with his parents as God warned Joseph in a dream to flee), Herod ordered this in an attempt to eradicate the 'son of god and prophet' that had been born. This also suggests that Jesus was not newborn at the time they visited as boys up to the age of two were targeted.
The bible also says that they did not visit Jesus in a manger either but rather a house.
The account of this is at Matthew 2:1-16.
The star that lead the three wise men to Jesus first led them to King Herod in an attempt to help Jesus be killed, so it wasnt God who used a star to guide them.
Anyway Eternal im sorry if my beliefs offend you in any way, i respect others right to celebrate as they wish (christian and non christian) but was pointing out both historical and biblical facts when it came to xmas as reasons for us not celebrating and what we choose to do instead. The op asked if we teach our kids if santa is real so obviously we dont so was explaining why.
I think i know the video you are talking about Dragonfly, its a very thought provoking watch.
Truth is virtually everything about christmas is pagan in origin, taken from rituals and symbols in worship to pagan Gods.
Even where Jesus is involved - the nativity scene and christmas story - It isnt true nor accurate to the account in the bible. Most people just accept it without even picking up a bible to check.
With the date, I think the most convincing evidence that Jesus couldnt have been born in December at all is because the bible says that shepards were living out doors at night tending to their flocks in and around Bethlehem at the time of his birth. The cold, rainy season usually began in October, and shepherds, especially in the colder highlands, such as those around Bethlehem, brought their sheep into protected shelters at night. The coldest weather, sometimes accompanied by snow, occurred in December.
The date was solely chosen by the church to coincide with pagan festivals and to encourage pagans into the church. Those festivals included the Saturnalia, in honor of Saturn, god of agriculture, and the combined festivals of two sun gods, the Roman Sol and the Persian Mithra. Those pagan festivals began to be “Christianized” in the year 350, when Pope Julius I declared December 25 to be Christ’s birthday. It is absolutely nothing to do with Jesus.
The bible doesnt give a date for Jesus birth, only his death. Its his death that was instructed to be commemorated.
As a christian i do not celebrate christmas, so no santa here, but our DD has two 'present days' a year. Just something we have decided to do so she doesnt feel as if she is missing out. Plus everyone loves to give and recieve presents!!
Its so magical because she does not know when they will be, they are a complete surprise for her
It always feels like a cop out, Jehovah's witnesses make such a big thing about not celebrating Christmas, yet have present days, which I don't see any difference between that and a non Christian celebrating Christmas, it's just about exchanging gifts, what's the difference? As Christians we accept that the 25th of December is not the specific date off Christ's birth, yet it's just a day to remember and celebrate! As for the nativity, we read it direct from the bible, so I don't see your point, yes you get some varying interpretations of it, but my church and many I have seen, other than school ones, use verses directly from the bible.
Im truly sorry you feel that way
Not all Jehovahs Witnesses have present days at all tho, Its not like its something we practice or anything, just some of my friends do who have small children etc and we liked the idea as well. Its a personal choice as parents. And its not about exchanging gifts or expecting gifts or anything in return but rather about giving them, Of course we buy her stuff at other times too!
Growing up i never had present days as such, my mum would just randomly buy me something and id come home and it would be in my room, not wrapped or anything and not a certain amount of times in a year or anything like that.
If i didnt buy DD presents to unwrap id probably be criticized that she was missing out. I dont want her to feel that way either. We arent evil parents who deny our children gifts lol
Theres nothing wrong with gift giving or getting together as a family, these are not the things as a christian i have an issue with. We just choose to do it at other times instead so we are not involving ourselves with all the aspects of xmas that are non christian and tbh in opposition to the bible.
In regards to the accounts in the bible of the nativity etc, this is what i was referring to......
The three wise men, were actually sent by King Herod, in an attempt to locate Jesus to have him killed (unbeknown to the 3 wise men mind you - he told them he just wanted them to report back to him once they had located him so he could do obeisance or an act of worship to Jesus). He ordered that all boys under the age of 2 be murdered (in which he was successful but Jesus escaped with his parents as God warned Joseph in a dream to flee), Herod ordered this in an attempt to eradicate the 'son of god and prophet' that had been born. This also suggests that Jesus was not newborn at the time they visited as boys up to the age of two were targeted.
The bible also says that they did not visit Jesus in a manger either but rather a house.
The account of this is at Matthew 2:1-16.
The star that lead the three wise men to Jesus first led them to King Herod in an attempt to help Jesus be killed, so it wasnt God who used a star to guide them.
Anyway Eternal im sorry if my beliefs offend you in any way, i respect others right to celebrate as they wish (christian and non christian) but was pointing out both historical and biblical facts when it came to xmas as reasons for us not celebrating and what we choose to do instead. The op asked if we teach our kids if santa is real so obviously we dont so was explaining why.
You belief does not offend me, I know a few JWs and although it may not be part of your religion it seems common practice to have present days, I just can't see the difference is all, you make a huge thing about not celebrating Christmas yet what is there difference between what you do and what a non believer does? That is my point. I have no issue with what your believe or how you choose to practice it, just saying it sounds like exactly how a non believer would view Christmas.
Yes I am we'll aware that jesus was not a baby in a manger and I am well aware of that whole scripture you described, I still don't see how that nil and voids the whole nativity? The wise men did visit Jesus at some point.
Why don't you celebrate things as a religion?
I think i know the video you are talking about Dragonfly, its a very thought provoking watch.
Truth is virtually everything about christmas is pagan in origin, taken from rituals and symbols in worship to pagan Gods.
Even where Jesus is involved - the nativity scene and christmas story - It isnt true nor accurate to the account in the bible. Most people just accept it without even picking up a bible to check.
With the date, I think the most convincing evidence that Jesus couldnt have been born in December at all is because the bible says that shepards were living out doors at night tending to their flocks in and around Bethlehem at the time of his birth. The cold, rainy season usually began in October, and shepherds, especially in the colder highlands, such as those around Bethlehem, brought their sheep into protected shelters at night. The coldest weather, sometimes accompanied by snow, occurred in December.
The date was solely chosen by the church to coincide with pagan festivals and to encourage pagans into the church. Those festivals included the Saturnalia, in honor of Saturn, god of agriculture, and the combined festivals of two sun gods, the Roman Sol and the Persian Mithra. Those pagan festivals began to be Christianized in the year 350, when Pope Julius I declared December 25 to be Christs birthday. It is absolutely nothing to do with Jesus.
The bible doesnt give a date for Jesus birth, only his death. Its his death that was instructed to be commemorated.
As a christian i do not celebrate christmas, so no santa here, but our DD has two 'present days' a year. Just something we have decided to do so she doesnt feel as if she is missing out. Plus everyone loves to give and recieve presents!!
Its so magical because she does not know when they will be, they are a complete surprise for her
It always feels like a cop out, Jehovah's witnesses make such a big thing about not celebrating Christmas, yet have present days, which I don't see any difference between that and a non Christian celebrating Christmas, it's just about exchanging gifts, what's the difference? As Christians we accept that the 25th of December is not the specific date off Christ's birth, yet it's just a day to remember and celebrate! As for the nativity, we read it direct from the bible, so I don't see your point, yes you get some varying interpretations of it, but my church and many I have seen, other than school ones, use verses directly from the bible.
Im truly sorry you feel that way
Not all Jehovahs Witnesses have present days at all tho, Its not like its something we practice or anything, just some of my friends do who have small children etc and we liked the idea as well. Its a personal choice as parents. And its not about exchanging gifts or expecting gifts or anything in return but rather about giving them, Of course we buy her stuff at other times too!
Growing up i never had present days as such, my mum would just randomly buy me something and id come home and it would be in my room, not wrapped or anything and not a certain amount of times in a year or anything like that.
If i didnt buy DD presents to unwrap id probably be criticized that she was missing out. I dont want her to feel that way either. We arent evil parents who deny our children gifts lol
Theres nothing wrong with gift giving or getting together as a family, these are not the things as a christian i have an issue with. We just choose to do it at other times instead so we are not involving ourselves with all the aspects of xmas that are non christian and tbh in opposition to the bible.
In regards to the accounts in the bible of the nativity etc, this is what i was referring to......
The three wise men, were actually sent by King Herod, in an attempt to locate Jesus to have him killed (unbeknown to the 3 wise men mind you - he told them he just wanted them to report back to him once they had located him so he could do obeisance or an act of worship to Jesus). He ordered that all boys under the age of 2 be murdered (in which he was successful but Jesus escaped with his parents as God warned Joseph in a dream to flee), Herod ordered this in an attempt to eradicate the 'son of god and prophet' that had been born. This also suggests that Jesus was not newborn at the time they visited as boys up to the age of two were targeted.
The bible also says that they did not visit Jesus in a manger either but rather a house.
The account of this is at Matthew 2:1-16.
The star that lead the three wise men to Jesus first led them to King Herod in an attempt to help Jesus be killed, so it wasnt God who used a star to guide them.
Anyway Eternal im sorry if my beliefs offend you in any way, i respect others right to celebrate as they wish (christian and non christian) but was pointing out both historical and biblical facts when it came to xmas as reasons for us not celebrating and what we choose to do instead. The op asked if we teach our kids if santa is real so obviously we dont so was explaining why.
You belief does not offend me, I know a few JWs and although it may not be part of your religion it seems common practice to have present days, I just can't see the difference is all, you make a huge thing about not celebrating Christmas yet what is there difference between what you do and what a non believer does? That is my point. I have no issue with what your believe or how you choose to practice it, just saying it sounds like exactly how a non believer would view Christmas.
Yes I am we'll aware that jesus was not a baby in a manger and I am well aware of that whole scripture you described, I still don't see how that nil and voids the whole nativity? The wise men did visit Jesus at some point.
Why don't you celebrate things as a religion?
Well i assure you its not common practice. What i was sayin really has nothing to do with non believers tho? but rather christians. And i never said its not how a non believer would view xmas, i wasnt even discussing non believers at all.
It doesnt nil the nativity but rather the account isnt accurate or should i put it 'the whole truth'. Its deceptive really.
I think ive already well and truly explained your final question as to why we dont celebrate it as a religion, his death we do tho, not easter itself for many of the same reasons as xmas and the way were told to in the bible and on the date given in the bible, Nisan 14 (usually falls the week before Easter long weekend)
I think i know the video you are talking about Dragonfly, its a very thought provoking watch.
Truth is virtually everything about christmas is pagan in origin, taken from rituals and symbols in worship to pagan Gods.
Even where Jesus is involved - the nativity scene and christmas story - It isnt true nor accurate to the account in the bible. Most people just accept it without even picking up a bible to check.
With the date, I think the most convincing evidence that Jesus couldnt have been born in December at all is because the bible says that shepards were living out doors at night tending to their flocks in and around Bethlehem at the time of his birth. The cold, rainy season usually began in October, and shepherds, especially in the colder highlands, such as those around Bethlehem, brought their sheep into protected shelters at night. The coldest weather, sometimes accompanied by snow, occurred in December.
The date was solely chosen by the church to coincide with pagan festivals and to encourage pagans into the church. Those festivals included the Saturnalia, in honor of Saturn, god of agriculture, and the combined festivals of two sun gods, the Roman Sol and the Persian Mithra. Those pagan festivals began to be Christianized in the year 350, when Pope Julius I declared December 25 to be Christs birthday. It is absolutely nothing to do with Jesus.
The bible doesnt give a date for Jesus birth, only his death. Its his death that was instructed to be commemorated.
As a christian i do not celebrate christmas, so no santa here, but our DD has two 'present days' a year. Just something we have decided to do so she doesnt feel as if she is missing out. Plus everyone loves to give and recieve presents!!
Its so magical because she does not know when they will be, they are a complete surprise for her
It always feels like a cop out, Jehovah's witnesses make such a big thing about not celebrating Christmas, yet have present days, which I don't see any difference between that and a non Christian celebrating Christmas, it's just about exchanging gifts, what's the difference? As Christians we accept that the 25th of December is not the specific date off Christ's birth, yet it's just a day to remember and celebrate! As for the nativity, we read it direct from the bible, so I don't see your point, yes you get some varying interpretations of it, but my church and many I have seen, other than school ones, use verses directly from the bible.
Im truly sorry you feel that way
Not all Jehovahs Witnesses have present days at all tho, Its not like its something we practice or anything, just some of my friends do who have small children etc and we liked the idea as well. Its a personal choice as parents. And its not about exchanging gifts or expecting gifts or anything in return but rather about giving them, Of course we buy her stuff at other times too!
Growing up i never had present days as such, my mum would just randomly buy me something and id come home and it would be in my room, not wrapped or anything and not a certain amount of times in a year or anything like that.
If i didnt buy DD presents to unwrap id probably be criticized that she was missing out. I dont want her to feel that way either. We arent evil parents who deny our children gifts lol
Theres nothing wrong with gift giving or getting together as a family, these are not the things as a christian i have an issue with. We just choose to do it at other times instead so we are not involving ourselves with all the aspects of xmas that are non christian and tbh in opposition to the bible.
In regards to the accounts in the bible of the nativity etc, this is what i was referring to......
The three wise men, were actually sent by King Herod, in an attempt to locate Jesus to have him killed (unbeknown to the 3 wise men mind you - he told them he just wanted them to report back to him once they had located him so he could do obeisance or an act of worship to Jesus). He ordered that all boys under the age of 2 be murdered (in which he was successful but Jesus escaped with his parents as God warned Joseph in a dream to flee), Herod ordered this in an attempt to eradicate the 'son of god and prophet' that had been born. This also suggests that Jesus was not newborn at the time they visited as boys up to the age of two were targeted.
The bible also says that they did not visit Jesus in a manger either but rather a house.
The account of this is at Matthew 2:1-16.
The star that lead the three wise men to Jesus first led them to King Herod in an attempt to help Jesus be killed, so it wasnt God who used a star to guide them.
Anyway Eternal im sorry if my beliefs offend you in any way, i respect others right to celebrate as they wish (christian and non christian) but was pointing out both historical and biblical facts when it came to xmas as reasons for us not celebrating and what we choose to do instead. The op asked if we teach our kids if santa is real so obviously we dont so was explaining why.
You belief does not offend me, I know a few JWs and although it may not be part of your religion it seems common practice to have present days, I just can't see the difference is all, you make a huge thing about not celebrating Christmas yet what is there difference between what you do and what a non believer does? That is my point. I have no issue with what your believe or how you choose to practice it, just saying it sounds like exactly how a non believer would view Christmas.
Yes I am we'll aware that jesus was not a baby in a manger and I am well aware of that whole scripture you described, I still don't see how that nil and voids the whole nativity? The wise men did visit Jesus at some point.
Why don't you celebrate things as a religion?
Well i assure you its not common practice. What i was sayin really has nothing to do with non believers tho? but rather christians. And i never said its not how a non believer would view xmas, i wasnt even discussing non believers at all.
It doesnt nil the nativity but rather the account isnt accurate or should i put it 'the whole truth'. Its deceptive really.
I think ive already well and truly explained your final question as to why we dont celebrate it as a religion, his death we do tho, not easter itself for many of the same reasons as xmas and the way were told to in the bible and on the date given in the bible, Nisan 14 (usually falls the week before Easter long weekend)
Then why not just celebrate and depict the nativity your way? I assure you my religion do follow the account of the King James Version of the nativity, which I assume is what you use too?
I think generally the whole concept of the nativity which is depicted so often is so that younger children understand it, without going too in depth.
Sorry if you find my questioning offensive, I don't understand your religion, I am constantly trying to get my head around it, after all there are loads of Kingdom Halls everywhere, all car parks full, and you all seem pleasant, so I'm just trying to understand.
I enjoy hearing your point of view and giving you insight into my beliefs. We base everything on the bible so anything you dont understand perhaps you could PM me and i can direct you to the scriptural reasoning for it. Its quite straight forward really. This is from what I could gather.
