Selfish...

[PeanutBean]

Just a little moan or something, I'm not sure what. I've read a few things round the forum that have more or less subtly expressed the notion of mums wanting a better birth experience as being selfish. I can't really say how but it's sort of bothering me a bit.

Of course we would do anything to have healthy babies. But healthy babies and happy mums don't have to be mutually exclusive.

 

[chuck]

The whole 'you should be grateful' thing really grates with me too, We are incredibly lucky to have healthy babies but wanting a happy birth is far from selfish.

 

[PeanutBean]

It's like any suggestion out of the ordinary is automatically taken as some risk to baby for the benefit of the mother as if the two of us are connected. Usually also said by people who have done zero research with complete confidence.

 

[chuck]

It doesnt matter so long as you get a healthy baby....ergh said by women who don't expect any better and women who shut up and put up with what was pushed at/into them and think that all interventions are done for the good of the baby - labour is agony what do you expect kind of people.

As I see it now the better the experience the happier the Mummy the better for the baby in the long run.

Surely it can't be coincidence that PND rates are soaring along with interventions/CS rates?

 

[PeanutBean]

Exactly. I know we haven't had the same experience but I think you and I are peas in a pod as far as our personal journey goes for this labour. It's not possible to really say to others somehow, however rude their comments are. I want women to expect more but the last thing I want to do is make them feel bad about their own experience even if they're happy trying to make me feel bad about my plans...

 

[Mervs Mum]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Dont let other people's baggage become yours. x

 

[PeanutBean]

They're not getting to me in the sense of making me feel any different about my own experience or hopes for this time. I just sometimes find it hard to bite my tongue.

 

[nov_mum]

I think there is still a large degree of "Dr is right and we must do what he says" mentality around. It is an old fashioned notion but is bred in to us from past generations. I have a friend who signed up for a section with an OB as soon as she found out she was pregnant. The OB cut her open as per the plan and handed her a baby telling her not to eat for 24-48 hours. Despite all of the midwives and her friend who was a NICU nurse telling her that it was a very old fashioned notion which does nothing for milk supply and is no longer recommended by most OBs and hospitals, she went along with it and said "I'm paying him 4k for this advice so I'm going to take it".

My friend is a nurse and knows about good science but she also works in an area where Drs are god and you still stand by the bed while the doctor visits the patient and say nothing unless spoken to! You get what you pay for I guess

 

[nov_mum]

There is a big influence to do what the doctor says and anything else is plain stupid and selfish. If a doctor says you must be cut open and have your baby delivered now as Doctor has dinner plans then that is what happens and if you disagree they pull the old 'you are putting your baby at risk' I had two phone calls from an angry mw from a day clinic who told me I had to come in to hospital daily to have monitoring. I told her I would not be and she told me the Dr said I had to and that I was putting my baby at risk. When I asked her how I was putting him at risk (he was a very good size, placenta flow was awesome and protein in my wee was minimal, plus they chose not to medicate me for blood pressure) she had to concede that coming in daily as opposed to twice a week (which I had agreed to) would achieve nothing more, she backed down but told me the Dr wouldn't be happy. I assured her the Dr's happiness was not of my concern but the health of my baby and routine of my 15mth old was. She hung up.

 

[PeanutBean]

I don't understand why people don't want to think for themselves; to take responsibility for themselves.

 

[nov_mum]

I guess they have been told for long enough that birthing is a medical intervention that frequently goes wrong. TV shows Drs delivering babies in hospitals. My mother was horrified I was being cared for by a MW and no Dr. Women are told at every step that we don't know how to birth and nurture. We are marketed to by so many companies 'helping us make the right choices', then we have the social status of prams, nappy brands and designer clothes. Fancy cots, travel systems and countless amounts of 'safety gear'. If all women (aside from those that do need medical intervention) had normal births and breast fed, maternity would be a very poor business sector. Hahahaha

 

[nov_mum]

Gosh, I really am in a bit of a ranting mood today but I wanted to add that women who want to have some input in to their births often get labeled as 'control freaks' who are hippy and anti medicine. Then comes the snide remarks from drs and mothers too unfortunately that 'no one gives you a medal' for pushing a baby out with no drugs etc. I try to explain that it really isn't about what everyone thinks about and your birth, it is actually to do with what you, yourself, experiences.

I always say that I did get two medal actually. They are two gorgeous boys who remind me every day how it was all worth it. Without a natural birth with my first, he would have definitely ended up in NICU. A vaginal birth allowed his lungs and other organs to be prepared for life on the outside. A 35 week baby needs all the help he can get and a pile of meds via mum and then removal by section would have seen him on breathing support.

 

[PeanutBean]

But it is a bit different in the uk as mw-led care is the norm and we don't pay at point of use. I dunno. Just grrrr.

 

[special_kala]

I think some people think im selfish for wanting a HB but i dont see how i am in the slightest.

With River i had a epidural and a fair amount of intervention. She poo'ed in my waters after becoming distressed and i put alot of that on my hospital birth.

She was very very unsettled the first 2 days and i put alot of that on how she came into this world.

If people want to think of me as selfish for wanting to bring my baby into the world in the most natural, calm and gentle way then they are more then welcome too.

I know the decison i have made for a HB is just as much for my baby then it is for me. Actually its all for my baby as if i didnt have my babies interests at heart id go straight for a epidural again and have no pain but put them at extra risk

 

[nov_mum]

MW led care is the norm her too but there is that American influence via TV and celebrities etc that have normalised sections and hospital births. Here you can book a private OB but that will cost 4K upward. If you need specialist care (like I did once preeclampsia showed up) you get one assigned to you via the public system. Most private OBs here work part time in private practice and part time for the hospital so you get the same dr, you just pay for one if you choose one when it is not medically indicated. There is an increasing number of women opting and paying for private care as they assume they will get better quality care, which is not the case, you will just be more likely to end up with a section. Again, there is an increasing amount of women who opt for a section as they feel they will never cope, it is an easier pain free way to deliver and it is run of the mill these days.

 

[chuck]

Dr knows best!
*puke*

 

[Jenniflower]

MW led care is the norm her too but there is that American influence via TV and celebrities etc that have normalised sections and hospital births. Here you can book a private OB but that will cost 4K upward. If you need specialist care (like I did once preeclampsia showed up) you get one assigned to you via the public system. Most private OBs here work part time in private practice and part time for the hospital so you get the same dr, you just pay for one if you choose one when it is not medically indicated. There is an increasing number of women opting and paying for private care as they assume they will get better quality care, which is not the case, you will just be more likely to end up with a section. Again, there is an increasing amount of women who opt for a section as they feel they will never cope, it is an easier pain free way to deliver and it is run of the mill these days.

This is one of my biggest pet peeves. Women that think C-sections are in fact the easy way out. There's been a few women in Third Tri asking if she can get a section simply because she's afraid of giving birth and think it would be easier. EASIER?! I mean I know I haven't had one, so by all means I can't talk but I sure can listen. My good friend wasn't able to even pick up her baby for the first 2 days because of the pain she was in. She had to press a button any time her LO was crying so that a MW would come and help. Sitting in a recovery room with 3 other women watching them come and go as the please and sooth their baby when they cry made her feel like less of a mother. Especially when the MW's were too busy to come help and the baby would cry at 2am waking everyone else up.

And man if I read one more time in Third Tri someone telling a women who wants to wait to be induced that she's going to kill her baby (Not exaggerating!) I'm about to scream. I mentioned in a thread in there some where that I was happy for a girl who just gave birth. Everyone was going on and on about how glad they were for her that baby was ok. How even though she had this crazy scary experience AT LEAST baby was ok. I went on to let her know how amazed I was at how strong she was. How even in the middle of the experience she was still able to stay strong and make an informed decision and how I'm glad both baby AND mother are ok. I don't think that gets said enough.

 

[PeanutBean]

If these people could see the scars some of us wear inside maybe they would be more careful with their comments. It starts with the criticisms of everything we choose to do in pregnancy, continues with the criticisms of our birth choices and then forever more in our parenting choices. Why can't we mums be people in our own right too? Why can't people accept that a happy mum makes for a happier baby? It's like we are supposed to disappear from existence in order for our babies to exist but it doesn't have to be that way.

 

[Jenniflower]

If these people could see the scars some of us wear inside maybe they would be more careful with their comments. It starts with the criticisms of everything we choose to do in pregnancy, continues with the criticisms of our birth choices and then forever more in our parenting choices. Why can't we mums be people in our own right too? Why can't people accept that a happy mum makes for a happier baby? It's like we are supposed to disappear from existence in order for our babies to exist but it doesn't have to be that way.

Preach it sister!

 

[PeanutBean]

And women are the biggest critics of all!