Should we bring back the death penalty?

[Natsku]

I'm not sure what the system is called but they re-did the whole thing in the 70s, they used to have the Russian system (very punitive and harsh, one of the highest imprisenment levels in Europe) but then the academics (rather than politicians) pretty much re-wrote the whole system over a couple of decades. I think its something like only a 3rd of the original penal code is still as it was.

 

[Redhead84]

Yet again, not allowing TV is a recipe for disaster, and as for no phone contact, are you kidding me?

Try having the most important person in your life go to prison for one mistake and not being able to speak to them so they can let you know they're ok.. Try that for size and then come back and give me an answer. Should visits be banned too and families of the offender be punished by proxy?

I know it must be hard for you...but what about crminals taking responsibility and paying for their crimes? It's punishment...not disneyland.

He never had any problem with the punishment part, none at all... But should families be punished also when they have done nothing wrong as that is what you are advocating.

 

[Tasha]

I think they should let the victim's families 'take care of the murderer'...cheaper.

The thought of this makes me feel sick. How would that make the victim and their family better than the criminal? How would it impact on the victim and their family's mental health, I mean they could act in anger or because they can but then they have to live with that for the rest of their lives? Where does it stop, if they do something 'worse' than what the criminal did, does the criminal and their family then get to punish the victim and their family?

 

[Tasha]

He never had any problem with the punishment part, none at all... But should families be punished also when they have done nothing wrong as that is what you are advocating.

It is very clear in his diary that he accepted his punishment and I got the impression he felt worse for you and his parents than he did for himself cos you never did anything.

 

[JASMAK]

I think they should let the victim's families 'take care of the murderer'...cheaper.

The thought of this makes me feel sick. How would that make the victim and their family better than the criminal? How would it impact on the victim and their family's mental health, I mean they could act in anger or because they can but then they have to live with that for the rest of their lives? Where does it stop, if they do something 'worse' than what the criminal did, does the criminal and their family then get to punish the victim and their family?

Well, I wrote that half-arsed, tbh, but what I mean is...I deal with shit head crminals ALL the time at work...I see the truth with shit head crminals and their arrogant entitled attitudes. ALOT of them don't give two shits that they hurt someone, or stole, or that they have ruined people's lives, and actually, I don't agree with the death penalty *in most cases* but...if someone ever hurt my child...I would go mamma ape shit...and that son of a bitch would pay. I am not going to romanticize murder and raper with forgiveness. That's bullshit. No one forgives someone for senselessly raping and murdering their child.

 

[JASMAK]

Yet again, not allowing TV is a recipe for disaster, and as for no phone contact, are you kidding me?

Try having the most important person in your life go to prison for one mistake and not being able to speak to them so they can let you know they're ok.. Try that for size and then come back and give me an answer. Should visits be banned too and families of the offender be punished by proxy?

I know it must be hard for you...but what about crminals taking responsibility and paying for their crimes? It's punishment...not disneyland.

He never had any problem with the punishment part, none at all... But should families be punished also when they have done nothing wrong as that is what you are advocating.

Sorry to be blunt, but it has nothing to do with the crminals families. This is and should only be about the victims. If you don't like that your loved one is in jail, then that is a relationship issue, and nothing more.

 

[Redhead84]

If you'd bothered to read, my OH was in jail 5 years ago, he's sat near me now watching a very sodden 24 Hour race from Spa.

Sorry to be blunt but I've also been a victim of horrific violence - I was raped and beaten over a period of nearly 3 hours to the point that I was put on a high dependency unit. I was then "advised" not to seek any form of counselling before trial as it might reduce the quality of my evidence, go to court and have my credibility ripped to shreds by a defence barrister who has just doing his job. It is an experience that is degrading, humiliating and frightening in the extreme.

The aftermath, well... I still suffer from PTSD and cry uncontrollably when I'm caught off guard by violence etc on TV or in a movie - I still cannot sit comfortably alone in a room with a strange male when the door is shut.. doctors, opticians, the lot.

I have no idea if my assailant has family that keep in touch with him, but if he has, and they want to keep in touch, it is not for me to say they shouldn't be allowed to... they have done nothing wrong, I have no quarrel with them whatsoever.

There are more victims in the criminal justice system than the injured party.. and this is true for both sides of the coin, there are no winners at all.

I've already said that I'm a massive, massive hypocrite when it comes to the death penalty, as although I don't agree with it, if it had been available in my case then I not only would have wanted it, I'd have wanted to do it myself. That would make me, quite rightly if they were supportive, a villain in the eyes of his family and goes against everything I have just said, and it's maybe just as well that these decisions are left to the courts and not the victims.

 

[Ozzieshunni]

:hugs redhead24, that's horrific I can't believe you were told not to get support

 

[marley2580]

:hugs redhead24, that's horrific I can't believe you were told not to get support

They also say this to kids for fear of contaminating the evidence. Defence barristers are vicious.

 

[lindseymw]

Cheers for the info. I think thats something that should be changed, better rights for the victims. Here the victims can be involved with the whole process, they can submit evidence and comment on it and suggest questions to be asked during the investigation or in court and can seek compensation for any offence.

It does depend on the case in regards to compensation. A victim who is robbed for example can request compensation, but they might not always get it if the offender has no money.

It's a fine line to walk with victim/offender rights. You can't give too many rights to a victim because the offender will get upset and you can give too many rights to an offender or the victim becomes upset. It's because of the Common Law system. What type of system do they run on over there, Nats?

Victim compensation is awarded regardless of the offenders money. You can put a claim to the CICA & the money awarded to you comes from the Government not the offender (unless of course you put in a private claim through the civil court system).

With the CICA, its awarded to violent crime victims or families that have lost someone through a violent crime.

 

[lindseymw]

In some cases, I think the death penalty is suitable. For people that can't be rehabilitated (serial killers, paedos etc) I see no reason why they should be kept at everyones expense.

In this country (UK) there always seems to be a wrong balance of 'Rights' as in the offender seems to have more rights than the victims. One example, Thomson & Venables (Jamie Bulger killers), they never actually spent a day in Prison (they were released before moving to Adult Prison, they had spent their time in Juvie, despite being given the term "At Her Majesty's Pleasure i.e indefinate prison term (or until they were deemed rehabilitate). They were awarded £1000s in compensation due to a cock up in the court case (Lord Chief Justice interefered) & when they were released new identities were given to them. One of them is back indue to finding Child Porn.

The Mother would have received £11k & the knowledge that two boys brutally tortured & killed her little boy, one of which is roaming free with a new identity & £1000s (i'm sure it was around £50-60k) in the bank. I hardly see that as fair/justice.

 

[Ozzieshunni]

Cheers for the info. I think thats something that should be changed, better rights for the victims. Here the victims can be involved with the whole process, they can submit evidence and comment on it and suggest questions to be asked during the investigation or in court and can seek compensation for any offence.

It does depend on the case in regards to compensation. A victim who is robbed for example can request compensation, but they might not always get it if the offender has no money.

It's a fine line to walk with victim/offender rights. You can't give too many rights to a victim because the offender will get upset and you can give too many rights to an offender or the victim becomes upset. It's because of the Common Law system. What type of system do they run on over there, Nats?

Victim compensation is awarded regardless of the offenders money. You can put a claim to the CICA & the money awarded to you comes from the Government not the offender (unless of course you put in a private claim through the civil court system).

With the CICA, its awarded to violent crime victims or families that have lost someone through a violent crime.

Not true. I volunteer for Victim Support and process CICA claims.

 

[lindseymw]

Cheers for the info. I think thats something that should be changed, better rights for the victims. Here the victims can be involved with the whole process, they can submit evidence and comment on it and suggest questions to be asked during the investigation or in court and can seek compensation for any offence.

It does depend on the case in regards to compensation. A victim who is robbed for example can request compensation, but they might not always get it if the offender has no money.

It's a fine line to walk with victim/offender rights. You can't give too many rights to a victim because the offender will get upset and you can give too many rights to an offender or the victim becomes upset. It's because of the Common Law system. What type of system do they run on over there, Nats?

Victim compensation is awarded regardless of the offenders money. You can put a claim to the CICA & the money awarded to you comes from the Government not the offender (unless of course you put in a private claim through the civil court system).

With the CICA, its awarded to violent crime victims or families that have lost someone through a violent crime.

Not true. I volunteer for Victim Support and process CICA claims.

Law A levels/Degrees & Direct.gov need to update their information then

 

[Natsku]

I think the compensation is paid by the offender here and if they don't have the money I assume the government pays it but then takes the money back from the offender's earnings over time

 

[Ozzieshunni]

Apparently, they do. You can get CICA for mental trauma as well. In addition, the crime does not have to be horribly violent. You can get criminal injuries if the attack has left you disabled or scarred or if you have missed an extended period of work to recovered.

It's not likely that you'll be awarded compensation from the government either by the court. I've actually never heard of the government awarding compensation in court to be paid by the government If the offender can't pay, you usually go away with nothing.

 

[lindseymw]

Apparently, they do. You can get CICA for mental trauma as well. In addition, the crime does not have to be horribly violent. You can get criminal injuries if the attack has left you disabled or scarred or if you have missed an extended period of work to recovered.

It's not likely that you'll be awarded compensation from the government either by the court. I've actually never heard of the government awarding compensation in court to be paid by the government If the offender can't pay, you usually go away with nothing.

The claim isn't awarded in the court....you put a separate claim in. The Offender doesn't need to be have tried and/or found guilty either. The Government has a 'pot' of money for this.

The only time money will be awarded in Court is if you take the offender to court in a civil matter (i.e personal injury claim) which has nothing to do with criminal offense per se. The money awarded in that case will be from the offender & not the government.

 

[marley2580]

You can get criminal compensation even if no one has been arrested for the crime against you, therefore the govt does pay it.

 

[Ozzieshunni]

Apparently, they do. You can get CICA for mental trauma as well. In addition, the crime does not have to be horribly violent. You can get criminal injuries if the attack has left you disabled or scarred or if you have missed an extended period of work to recovered.

It's not likely that you'll be awarded compensation from the government either by the court. I've actually never heard of the government awarding compensation in court to be paid by the government If the offender can't pay, you usually go away with nothing.

The claim isn't awarded in the court....you put a separate claim in. The Offender doesn't need to be have tried and/or found guilty either. The Government has a 'pot' of money for this.

The only time money will be awarded in Court is if you take the offender to court in a civil matter (i.e personal injury claim) which has nothing to do with criminal offense per se. The money awarded in that case will be from the offender & not the government.

I think you misread what I said, lol. Sorry, it's early. CICA claims money does come from a government pot. I think we're saying the same thing.

 

[lhancock90]

Yet again, not allowing TV is a recipe for disaster, and as for no phone contact, are you kidding me?

Try having the most important person in your life go to prison for one mistake and not being able to speak to them so they can let you know they're ok.. Try that for size and then come back and give me an answer. Should visits be banned too and families of the offender be punished by proxy?

I agree, the victims familys should not be punished, contact should be allowed. But TV? I don't see that as necessary.

 

[JASMAK]

If you'd bothered to read, my OH was in jail 5 years ago, he's sat near me now watching a very sodden 24 Hour race from Spa.

Sorry to be blunt but I've also been a victim of horrific violence - I was raped and beaten over a period of nearly 3 hours to the point that I was put on a high dependency unit. I was then "advised" not to seek any form of counselling before trial as it might reduce the quality of my evidence, go to court and have my credibility ripped to shreds by a defence barrister who has just doing his job. It is an experience that is degrading, humiliating and frightening in the extreme.

The aftermath, well... I still suffer from PTSD and cry uncontrollably when I'm caught off guard by violence etc on TV or in a movie - I still cannot sit comfortably alone in a room with a strange male when the door is shut.. doctors, opticians, the lot.

I have no idea if my assailant has family that keep in touch with him, but if he has, and they want to keep in touch, it is not for me to say they shouldn't be allowed to... they have done nothing wrong, I have no quarrel with them whatsoever.

There are more victims in the criminal justice system than the injured party.. and this is true for both sides of the coin, there are no winners at all.

I've already said that I'm a massive, massive hypocrite when it comes to the death penalty, as although I don't agree with it, if it had been available in my case then I not only would have wanted it, I'd have wanted to do it myself. That would make me, quite rightly if they were supportive, a villain in the eyes of his family and goes against everything I have just said, and it's maybe just as well that these decisions are left to the courts and not the victims.

I am sorry that happened to you, I have been a victim of two crimes, well, three...and I do NOT want the offenders to have the priveledge of a family. I did read that your hubby was in prison, but I still don't think they should have any outside rights. But, this is about the death penalty...and mostly I am opposed...and that my opinion, and I have a right to have it. I have been on the other side than you...the side where criminals lie to protct their own asses, even if it hurts their own families....you don't see half that in court, if any. They 85% of the time lie to cover their own asses, increasing costs, and further hurting victms.