Sleep Sense Support Group!

[Elski]

Morning all, glad to see that after a spate of night wakings/short naps and exhausted parents (isn't it weird how you all had issues at the same time!) that things are back on track for you.

Welcome to Hivechild too!

Well, I don't think I can do this the last four nights have been truly horrendous. LO wins every time as I just can't cope with the crying. At bed time she cries for three hours before I give up and BF her to sleep, she'll then wake every couple of hours and cry for ages which is much worse than it was before we started SS. MUCH worse! It's causing huge rows between me and OH as he is better at leaving her than me. What do you think? Maybe she's just not ready? I just feel so depressed. I was excited about starting this but had that doubt in the back of my mind that it would work and that seems to be coming true.

 

[jacs]

I am exhausted though - didn't sleep well last night at all - couldn't get back to sleep for ages after I fed Thomas and then I had horrible dreams that I was staying in a huge rambling mansion and couldn't remember which room I'd put Thomas to bed in and was searching the house for ages and couldn't find him. Horrible!! I couldn't find my glasses/contact lenses either in the dream so I couldn't even see properly, LOL.

Ah bless, sorry, the glasses/lenses bit made me laugh a little bit!
I have weird dreams too, where I'm holding him then cuddle him in and he just vanishes and I don't know where he's gone. Guess it's a mum thing!

Shame about the 6am waking - Evan does this religiously, hoping it will change soon.

Hivechild - sounds great, it's amazing how quickly they can catch on!

 

[jacs]

Morning all, glad to see that after a spate of night wakings/short naps and exhausted parents (isn't it weird how you all had issues at the same time!) that things are back on track for you.

Welcome to Hivechild too!

Well, I don't think I can do this the last four nights have been truly horrendous. LO wins every time as I just can't cope with the crying. At bed time she cries for three hours before I give up and BF her to sleep, she'll then wake every couple of hours and cry for ages which is much worse than it was before we started SS. MUCH worse! It's causing huge rows between me and OH as he is better at leaving her than me. What do you think? Maybe she's just not ready? I just feel so depressed. I was excited about starting this but had that doubt in the back of my mind that it would work and that seems to be coming true.

So sorry you're having a hard time. I definitely felt Evan was ready when we started this, but I would not recommend letting yourself getting to the point of desperation like we did either!
What do you do when she starts crying? Do you and OH do exactly the same thing? Sorry for all the questions - maybe we can come up with some ideas if you could go through exactly what you and your OH do.

 

[Elski]

We take it in turns (sort of like shifts, as Dana suggests) of 20 mins each. The room's dark and we're very quiet when we change shifts and we just 'shhhhh' rhythmically and rub her tummy occasionally. She gets herself in such a state, she's soaked in sweat from the effort of crying, her face is all puffy where her little fists pummell her eyes so much. It's heartbreaking. She must hate me.

How did you know Evan was ready to start SS?

 

[aimee-lou]

Hi everyone,

Hope you don't mind me joining in the discussion (Polaris invited me ) but I was hoping for some advice. I posted a thread in Baby club this morning that I think you would be the most qualified to help me with.

https://www.babyandbump.com/baby-club/305609-nipping-bad-sleep-habits-bud.html#post4942219

Any suggestions would be really appreciated. If you can't be bothered to read the essay (I don't blame you) basically Earl is getting harder to settle at night (around 10-12 mins compared to 5 just a couple of weeks ago) and he wakes at about 3.30am every day and continues to wake every half an hour until we get up for the day. He takes about 20 mins to settle back to what I would consider restful sleep, and then 10 mins later, is awake again. I think it's partly habit (stopped giving his night feed at 4am as he was waking out of habit) and partly his dummy. He isn't overly reliant on the dummy, just uses it to go to sleep but spits it out pretty much straight away.

I'm wondering if you could give me any advice on stopping this behaviour? Should i take his dummy away too?

Info about our routines are in my post.....apologies that it's so long.

Thanks in advance

 

[hivechild]

It's now 7:20 and the monkey is still asleep! He stirred around 6:45 and cried out in short bursts of a few seconds for a couple mins (he often does when he's got gas to pass!) then went back to sleep. My boobs are so sore but I don't want to express and then have him wake starving 10 mins later so I'm holding off until after he's had a feed. My poor boobs are used to being called to action every hour to 2 hours through the night!

Elski, do you think that using the pick up/put down method used and outlined in the newborn chapter might be more successful for all of you? I haven't really read the later chapters for age brackets in great depth so not sure if it's written in as an option but your LO is still so wee and while she might still cry, she gets to do it in your arms and with you soothing her that way.

I honestly think that if we hadn't had our diaper explosions and he hadn't gotten overtired that Ronan would have slept much quicker last night that way.

 

[polaris]

Wow`hivechild, that is amazing success for night one!!! Looking forward to seeing how it goes for you over the next little while!

Welcome over aimee-lou!! I'm sure some of the girls will be along shortly

 

[Cattia]

URgh not going well for us! Abigail is waking at 2am for a feed, which is fine, then she wakes again at about 4-5 and has terrible wind so won't settle. Last night I had to feed her twice in an hour between 4am and 5am to get her to sleep. If I leave her she just gets more and more worked up. She is not napping at all today either, I wonder if it is because she slept too late this morning? She didn't wake up until 7.15 then went down for her first nap from 8.30-9am but she would not do her morning nap at 11 or any naps since! I wonder if we are hitting the 16 week spurt? I am only just over the 12 week one! She is 16 weeks on Tuesday....

Glad to see others are doing well. Hivehcild, seems things are working great for you, hopefully doing it this early will save you problems later.

Aimee lou, I think getting rid of the dummy sounds as though it will help, since you are having to keep putting it in which is stopping him from self settling. Sounds as though your LO already has some good sleep skills there as well.

Funny how they can be doing so well and then everything seems to go backwards again!

 

[hivechild]

Well the monkey woke at 7:30 after my last post. Apparently his earlier stirring was him messing up another diaper so I can understand that waking him up!

We got up, changed and had a feed. I put him back in his cot about 45 mins later as he was acting sleepy. That was around 8:20 or so. Getting back to sleep hasn't been so easy. He started off ok and in a good mood but then got upset and started crying about 15 mins later so we went back to pick up/put down.

Twice now he's dozed off for 5 mins before waking himself up and having a bit of a cry. Then I have to soothe him again and spend a bit longer before he settles and dozes off again. I'm not sure why he's waking up again though? Any thoughts? If he keeps it up much longer I may take him out for another feed but I have a feeling if I do that he'll snack for 5 mins and then fall asleep on the boob.

Edit: Well that answers that. He needed to poop again. He hasn't pooped this often in a day in weeks!

 

[polaris]

The poos can really mess with sleep can't they? My LO has a poo every morning sometime between 6 and 6.30 - I honestly sometimes think he knows that I can't ignore it and have to get him up and change him, LOL. Only joking, but I do think he might probably sleep a bit longer in the mornings if it wasn't for his morning poo!

Aimee-Lou - I was just thinking about your dummy dilemma - as you know Thomas didn't ever really have a dummy and he went through a phase of sucking his thumb a lot when he was learning to self-settle - however I have noticed that he doesn't do it very much any more, he tends to rub his face with his blankie or sometimes sucks on the blankie a bit but rarely sucks his thumb anymore. So if you do decide to get rid of the dummy it doesn't necessarily mean that he will end up a serious thumb-sucker.

 

[polaris]

We take it in turns (sort of like shifts, as Dana suggests) of 20 mins each. The room's dark and we're very quiet when we change shifts and we just 'shhhhh' rhythmically and rub her tummy occasionally. She gets herself in such a state, she's soaked in sweat from the effort of crying, her face is all puffy where her little fists pummell her eyes so much. It's heartbreaking. She must hate me.

How did you know Evan was ready to start SS?

Elski -
That sounds horrendous, you poor thing. I don't know what to suggest - maybe it might be worth emailing Dana and asking for some advice?

Does it always take so long for her to settle to sleep or does she ever manage to settle more quickly? How does she finally drop off to sleep?

 

[aimee-lou]

Aimee-Lou - I was just thinking about your dummy dilemma - as you know Thomas didn't ever really have a dummy and he went through a phase of sucking his thumb a lot when he was learning to self-settle - however I have noticed that he doesn't do it very much any more, he tends to rub his face with his blankie or sometimes sucks on the blankie a bit but rarely sucks his thumb anymore. So if you do decide to get rid of the dummy it doesn't necessarily mean that he will end up a serious thumb-sucker.

Thanks for that. Funny you should say about rubbing his face with his blankie as Earl does this which of course knocks the dummy out. Maybe he will be ok without his dummy after all

I can see it's going to be a difficult night or 4 but I think it will be worth it in the end. I don't think it's necessarily getting rid of the dummy 100%, just getting rid of that sleep crutch. I am sure that I couldn't do wihtout it when he's teething and such like but for the time being we have a dummy embargo in this house as of 5pm tonight lol

 

[polaris]

Aimee-Lou - I was just thinking about your dummy dilemma - as you know Thomas didn't ever really have a dummy and he went through a phase of sucking his thumb a lot when he was learning to self-settle - however I have noticed that he doesn't do it very much any more, he tends to rub his face with his blankie or sometimes sucks on the blankie a bit but rarely sucks his thumb anymore. So if you do decide to get rid of the dummy it doesn't necessarily mean that he will end up a serious thumb-sucker.

Thanks for that. Funny you should say about rubbing his face with his blankie as Earl does this which of course knocks the dummy out. Maybe he will be ok without his dummy after all

I can see it's going to be a difficult night or 4 but I think it will be worth it in the end. I don't think it's necessarily getting rid of the dummy 100%, just getting rid of that sleep crutch. I am sure that I couldn't do wihtout it when he's teething and such like but for the time being we have a dummy embargo in this house as of 5pm tonight lol

Good luck!! Let us know how you get on. Earl has generally been a pretty good sleeper so I'm sure he won't be too long getting the hang of it.

I think even in the sleepsense book, it says somewhere that you can still use the dummy when necessary during the day etc. but just not to use it for sleep.

 

[hivechild]

Oh the dirty diapers are definitely messing things up here! I swear this is my monkey's way of expressing protest over the whole thing!

It's funny you mention the thumb sucking. I noticed Ronan's been doing the same thing today when he can manage to find his thumb. In fact, he's just now passed out with it in his mouth after about 3 seconds of sucking on it!

 

[jacs]

We take it in turns (sort of like shifts, as Dana suggests) of 20 mins each. The room's dark and we're very quiet when we change shifts and we just 'shhhhh' rhythmically and rub her tummy occasionally. She gets herself in such a state, she's soaked in sweat from the effort of crying, her face is all puffy where her little fists pummell her eyes so much. It's heartbreaking. She must hate me.

How did you know Evan was ready to start SS?

Poor little thing!
With us, DH couldn't get him to sleep (Evan would only sleep when we walked around with him, then it got that it had to be me - ridiculous!). He put him in his cot and came downstairs to get me, all the while Evan was screaming. I went to get him a bottle and it went silent upstairs. He had fallen asleep by himself, and we were sooo shocked! It just had never occurred to us that he could do it alone. That's when we knew he needed us to let him be a bit more independent.

What happens if you stay nearby but don't touch or shush for a few minutes? It could be that she's getting more stimulated by it? It'll probably escalate a bit, but might be worth trying for a little while. I think it was TennisGal who said her LO doesn't like her to talk/touch at bedtime.
Good idea of Polaris' as well, to email Dana.
x

 

[ms0206]

Hi ladies
Well after my last post my DD has been doing really well. We have managed morning naps lasting 1.5hrs and 2hrs today and yesterday. I couldn't believe it had to double check that she was ok!! I think that I have been guilty of over stimulating when she has been awake so for the last few days have tried to calm things down a bit and touch wood its seems to be paying off. The rest of the naps have been 45mins but hopefully we are starting to get somewhere.
Elski: as someone else asked are you trying PU/PD, our wee ones are around the same age and we first started we did this. I didn't pick her up all the time just when I thought that the crying was getting too much i.e. when there was real tears. Sorry if you have tried this. Keep going though it will be worth it in the end

 

[jacs]

Hi ladies
Well after my last post my DD has been doing really well. We have managed morning naps lasting 1.5hrs and 2hrs today and yesterday. I couldn't believe it had to double check that she was ok!! I think that I have been guilty of over stimulating when she has been awake so for the last few days have tried to calm things down a bit and touch wood its seems to be paying off. The rest of the naps have been 45mins but hopefully we are starting to get somewhere.

Sounds great! We only get one long nap each day as well (also in the morning!). I'm thrilled with that as it was always 40mins up until now.

 

[polaris]

What happens if you stay nearby but don't touch or shush for a few minutes? It could be that she's getting more stimulated by it? It'll probably escalate a bit, but might be worth trying for a little while. I think it was TennisGal who said her LO doesn't like her to talk/touch at bedtime.
Good idea of Polaris' as well, to email Dana.
x

I think that sounds like a good idea to try that for a bit - as it doesn't sound like she is soothed by the touch or the shushing - as Jacs says maybe it is too stimulating for her and stopping her from figuring out what she needs to do to settle down?

 

[hivechild]

Who knew naps would be so hard for a newborn who should want to sleep all the time anyway!? We've had 1 45 min nap since he woke at 7:30 this morning and fingers crossed, I've finally gotten him down for another one now at 12:30pm that will hopefully last longer than 45 minutes this time!

 

[aimee-lou]

Thanks Polaris - I will let you know. The dummies are in the box for tonight, we've had our last nap (4.15-5), our tea (scoffed a big portion of veggie lasagne the gannet!) and we're good to go. T-minus 45 minutes and counting until we enter the bath zone! lol

Ooh thanks for the tip from the book. Being such a newbie I don't have any literature yet. Payday tomorrow so amazon here I come! lol. Good to know we don't have to go completely cold turkey if we don't need to lol.

Wish me luck.