Sleep Sense Support Group!

[aimee-lou]

Well, I think we can call last night a success of sorts.

After the fiasco that was bedtime, I decided to do the water as you know.

Dreamfeed went fine as normal. Put him back to bed with 2 muslins instead of 1 (he just looked so snuggly lol) and he immediately turned onto his side and passed out lol.

the rest of the night went as follows:

4.15 - woke up. CHecked him and he was soaked (must have been all the drama earlier in the night had dislodged the nappy). So I changed his nappy and trousers (soooooo much easier with 2 piece pyjamas!!) and sat down with his water. He immediately calmed down and went back down within 5 minutes . He then woke up at 5.45 - so a whole hour and half. Now normally I would just say 'close enough' and we'd get up then have a nap at about 7-8. But, he seemed quite chilled out, just whinging. I waited for him to cry and then did pretty much the same thing again. Offered him water, cuddles and 10 minutes later he was asleep again....excellent. He woke up again at 6.15 but again, I just thought, I'll keep going. I managed to shush him until he was snoozing (does this really cute thing of long blinking lol) and I lay down on the sofa (in his eyeline). We both must have dozed off becuase the next thing I know Earl is laid there in his cot blowing raspberries at his pink hippo and it was 7am!

This has made such a difference! He only took 1/2 an oz of water all night as he kind of sussed that it wasn't milk, he doesn't need milk, and just wanted back to bed lol. He's sooooo much more smiley....recently he's been waking crying, we've been getting up and going downstairs then having a nap around an hour later, then proerly waking up all smiles. Now he's all smiles now, and I know he wont need a nap until around 9.30

Thanks so much for the support girls! I feel sooo much better this morning. I know it's not true sleep sense, but heck, it seems to have worked. We'll see how it works tonight Don't think I'll be bothering with the bedtime part though (one thing that I didn't realise until I went up to do the dreamfeed last night though - Hubby brought me up a 6m+ dummy and he took it fine. He wouldn't take them 2 weeks ago and I had planned to wait until he was 6m to try them again. But, he seems really happy on it now, and it seems to stay in better lol - who'd have thought the next size up dummy might have helped.....d'oh! lol

 

[polaris]

Morning everyone - wow it's been busy in here!

Aimee Lou - so glad the rest of your night went better than the start! Good luck tonight.

Hivechild - - In my experience naps are a LOT harder than night time sleep and take a lot longer to get sorted out. I think there is nothing wrong with mainly focusing on night time sleep to start off with and working on naps once that is sorted out. Quite a lot of people on here have taken that approach and it doesn't seem to confuse the babies. I think you made the right decision to make sure that he got some decent sleep during the day - there's nothing worse than having a totally over-tired baby and it definitely does make it harder for them to settle. So I think while they are learning to settle it is so important that they do get their daytime sleep even if they are not doing it the proper sleepsense way.

CatStorey - glad you had a nice weekend away - farm sounds like great fun!

Lindak - welcome on board! When I started the programme Thomas was already settling at bedtime but waking every two hours through the night and I had to feed him back to sleep every time (yawn!). Within about two or three nights he had gone down to just one feed in the twelve hour period. Basically as Jacs says you just do the same as you do at bedtime in terms of sitting by the cot with the occasional shush or pat. However I would recommend leaving it for a few minutes before you do anything at all - when I started Thomas was still in the room with me so I could keep an eye on him without him seeing me and I was totally amazed that he was actually generally able to settle himself back to sleep without me doing anything at all! When I started I also made a decision that I would definitely not feed him if it had been less than 3 hours as I knew he could go that long during the day at the age he was then. The first night waking was horrible - but he actually only cried for less than ten minutes before going back to sleep - and then he just stopped waking up so often or would settle himself back to sleep pretty quickly if he did wake. I still give him one night feed usually at about 2 or 3 and he also goes through occasional phases of wanting two feeds at about 12 and about 5ish. I'm happy to go on feeding him at night for the moment - but I wasn't happy feeding him every two hours when he clearly didn't need it.

Seraphim - difficult one about the tummy sleeping. I think the problem might be that if she is used to sleeping on her tummy it may be much harder for her to learn to settle on her back (I'm normally a tummy sleeper and it killed me not being able to sleep on my tummy during pregnancy - I found it much harder to get to sleep!). I think I would be inclined to keep putting her down on her tummy personally. I think it would be a good time to start working on it before she becomes even more active - it must be much harder once babies are able to stand up and crawl around etc. It sounds like you have already made a start anyway as she is going down very drowsy instead of fast asleep. According to sleepsense, a bit of patting is fine to soothe them but try not to have it a constant thing - because as you say, you don't want them to rely on that to get to sleep.

TennisGal and Jacs - hope you both had a good night!

We had a fantastic night - just one night feed at 3 - heard him stirring at 6.30 and was sure that we would be up for the day - but it never developed into anything and the next thing I knew it was 7.30 so we obviously both went back to sleep!

 

[jacs]

Polaris that's fab! It's great that Thomas can go back to sleep in the morning.

We also had a great night - night 2 of no feeding at all!
He woke at 6am as usual though, gave him a bottle and he was nearly asleep, so put him back down. No luck - he was wriggling around in no time, and I just went and got him after 20mins (he hadn't been crying).

He's napping now, looks like a long one. He had breakfast in his new high chair today - looked so little!

aimmee-lou - sounds like things really turned around! Might be even better tonight, as he'll kind of know what's coming.

hivechild - I agree with Polaris, naps are trickier, I think consistency really is the key to this. Well done for getting so far and keep going. Maybe read through the original thread (the link is in post 1). You might get some comfort seeing that most of us have had this problem also!

CatStorey - I hate those cots as well! MIL works for a hotel chain and we always get tatty old travel cots with no cushioned base (bet it's the same chain!).

Hope everyone else is doing well - how was your night TG?

 

[diz]

Hi ladies...whats this sleep sense malarkey then..?

Could it help me....?

Noah is BF. 7 months old. Has the same bed time routine since he was 3 days old and is usually a sleep at 7pm. Then will wake up in the night lots.

I have the biggest bags under my eyes, and i'm sure the old crows feet are getting worse too! xxx

 

[jacs]

Hi diz, sounds like you're in the right place! If you click on the sleep sense link in the first post you can see the sleep sense website, then come and ask any questions here!

what happens when he wakes in the night? Do you leave him/BF/cuddle etc?

 

[ms0206]

Hi Ladies
Polaris & Jacs: good news on the sleeping
Aimee-lou: well done on getting through the night hopefully tonight will be better. We I first started I didn't do "true" sleepsense just what worked for us.
We had a funny night she went to bed at 7 as normal but had a real crying fit, ended up picking her up and walking round the room. She went back to bed and fell asleep for 40mins then had another crying fit. Went back up to room and settled her and then 10mins later she was crying again, but managed to self settle and slept for the rest of the night so not sure what was wrong. She also managed 1hr 10mins nap this morning. It makes such a difference to see a smiling baby after a nap.
Hope all the babies have good sleeps today x

 

[polaris]

Hi Ladies
Polaris & Jacs: good news on the sleeping
Aimee-lou: well done on getting through the night hopefully tonight will be better. We I first started I didn't do "true" sleepsense just what worked for us.
We had a funny night she went to bed at 7 as normal but had a real crying fit, ended up picking her up and walking round the room. She went back to bed and fell asleep for 40mins then had another crying fit. Went back up to room and settled her and then 10mins later she was crying again, but managed to self settle and slept for the rest of the night so not sure what was wrong. She also managed 1hr 10mins nap this morning. It makes such a difference to see a smiling baby after a nap.
Hope all the babies have good sleeps today x

It's funny - I think they just have the odd bad night where it is more difficult for them to settle for whatever reason. I was thinking about this after Thomas's screaming fit at bedtime during the week - and I guess there are some nights that adults can't go to sleep easily too, maybe if your mind is too active and you are just tossing and turning for ages? I guess it could be the same for babies - but of course they cry when they can't get to sleep whereas we just have to suffer in silence, LOL.

 

[TennisGal]

Hi ladies!

Well, nap success! Two naps (of just over an hour) in the cot...one on Mummy. Really pleased...

Last night was an interesting one - DD woke for three feeds! She'd had two solid meals yesterday, and her usual number of milk feeds. Guess she was having a hungry time! I feel a bit gormless today, as DH and I had got a bit complacent and sat up watching a film last night. She settled perfectly, and was fine post feeds - but just seemed ravenous

DD has been looking around everywhere today - I think she's wondering where DH is.

Got a lot of posts to catch up on here... DD is currently leaping around in jumperoo!

 

[hivechild]

For those of you who emailed Dana to ask if you could email questions instead of calling, did you email her address or the customer service address?

 

[TennisGal]

I emailed SS client support - and they got straight back to me I was asking whether it would be disruptive to postpone starting naps!!

 

[hivechild]

Well I'm already seeing some hint of routine in the 2nd night.

The monkey woke from his nap around 6:15 (he'd slept almost 3 1/2 hrs in bed with me) so I changed and fed him which took us to almost 7 so I started the night time routine with a bath and then top up nursing.

I first put him down in his crib at 7:30 and like the night before there was 2 hours of pick up and put down before he calmed enough to want to go to sleep. Twice he drifted off and then almost (or within 5 minutes) woke himself up and started wailing. Finally at 9:30 he fell asleep.

So...two nights in a row he's been ready for sleep around 9:30, so I'm wondering if a) He's falling asleep because he's just exhausted himself and that's also why he sleeps such a good stretch...

or b) if I should try putting him to bed later, the risk there being that if I started later (around 8-8:30), he may still go through 2 hours of fighting it before he falls asleep.

Now, both nights he stirred and woke between 3-3:30 at which point I got up, changed and fed him. The first night he went back to sleep within a half hour after nursing and with some grizzling but by and large happily. Last night took a bit longer for him to go down and with much more crying. He would have fallen asleep at the half hour mark but he startled and woke himself so it took another 15 mins after that before he finally fell asleep.

All in all he's not doing bad. He's sleeping 5 1/2-6 hrs on the first stretch and then 3-3 1/2 hours on the second stretch before waking for the morning.

I am just dithering on whether to shift his bed time in the hopes of less crying (it's so hard to get through for me), and hoping that he'll learn to settle better and fall back to sleep quicker after his night time feeds. Right now it ends up being an hour to an hour and a half investment from me when he wakes, and it's generally another hour's worth of lost sleep on my behalf before I get back to bed and get back to sleep. How long did it take people to get their LO's settled after a night feed (especially if you BF)?

We've also kind of made things a little harder for ourselves as hubby decided that since Dana advises weaning off swaddling between 8-12 weeks that we should just go cold turkey and make it all part of learning to settle with the sleep program and putting him in his sleeping bag. I didn't want to fight him on that one but unfortunately I've also seen the monkey startle himself awake just as he was drifting off so not sure if I should just bear with it for now.

As for naps...well...he had a nice nap this morning of 1hr 20 mins but that was in his car seat/stroller while we went for a walk.

I had limited success in getting him to sleep in his crib after we got home and he had another feed if you count 20 mins as a nap. He worked himself up into such a state after waking from that that I brought him back downstairs for another feed. I think he's just tired and cranky at the moment because after his feed he threw a major crying hissy fit while I was holding him for a good 10 mins before he once again passed out on my shoulder for 13 mins, woke and had another crying fit and then fell asleep once more on my shoulder.

I'm a little concerned with the pick up and put down that he's incorporating that into part of his soothing/settling to go to sleep since he gets worked up, I pick him up and he cries and then settles, gets really drowsy and I put him down. It's like 90% the same as when he actually does fall asleep on my shoulder!

 

[polaris]

Yay hivechild - it sounds like he is doing brilliantly! That is amazing night time sleep for a breast fed baby of his age. I don't think Thomas even really knew day from night at that age - it used to take me forever to settle him back to sleep after night feeds and he was feeding every two hours at least = no sleep for me! So he's doing really well getting two long stretches during the night time hours. As he gets older it will get much easier to settle him after night feeds - I find with Thomas now I can have the whole thing done in 15 minutes, just pop him back in his cot and straight back to bed and he settles himself down no problem.

Regarding the bedtime - I think I would be inclined to move bedtime to the later hour for the moment - I'm pretty sure that you will find that he will naturally move towards an earlier bedtime as he gets older - whether you like it or not. Thomas started off with a 9.30 bedtime and gradually moved it earlier and earlier. So I wouldn't worry about that - if he seems more naturally ready to settle at about 9.30 then I would go with that.

I don't think you should worry too much about him incorporating the pick-up put down into his settling routine. He's very young and he still does need some help from you to settle - it's not like an older baby where they really can do it all for themselves once they are given the opportunity. The important thing is that he is starting to learn self-settling skills and gradually as he gets used to the new routine you should be able to put him down less and less drowsy until finally you will be able to put him down wide awake.

I'm not sure about the swaddling - doesn't the startle reflex become a lot weaker at about two to three months - which is why it's recommended to leave it until then to wean off the swaddling? My LO never really tolerated swaddling - although I only figured out how to do it properly when he was about 6 or 7 weeks old - so too late really. I think I would definitely try harder to swaddle if I have another baby. Maybe you are making things harder for yourselves by weaning from the swaddle early?

I'm so fascinated to hear about how sleep sense is going with a younger baby - thanks for keeping us updated.

 

[hivechild]

Well the funny thing is, we swaddled him for the first week or 2 but then I thought he was fighting/hating it so we stopped until about 6 weeks when at my wits end with the lack of sleep and his short sleep times I wrapped him up and to my surprise he went down for a few hours, so I started to swaddle again. It only half solved our problem though as you know, since we were still having to get him to sleep and then manage the delicate transfer to put him down!

I think he's starting to do better with the moro reflex thing not startling him quite as much as he used to, so I'm inclined to keep going with just his sleep bag. He really does prefer having his hands free when he sleeps (and looks so cute when he has his first curled up to his cheek).

If you're going to swaddle your next LO, I would highly recommend a swaddler (we have a Kiddopotamus SwaddleMe) as it makes it SO much easier and is a lot more secure than trying to swaddle in receiving blankets. Ronan would break free from a blanket swaddle in no time. I've heard good things about the Miracle Blanket as well for swaddling.

 

[jacs]

Great news hivechild. I remember when Evan was tiny he would thrash about when he was tired. We also thought something was bothering him, but it turned out it was just his was of going to sleep. He still wriggles all over the place in his cot! Don't worry about PU/PD, especially if you're seeing an improvement anyway. For us it never worked, and Evan hated the stimulation.

Well, we just had our third night of sleeping through, and to make it even better, he didn't wake at 6am, but 7am!!! Can't believe it, I haven't slept like that since before he was born.
It's DH's birthday today, and loads of people have taken the day off work, so we've got a busy house - good job Ev's had a long sleep; don't think the rest of the day will be very restful!

TG - great news on the naps - how did last night go?

 

[polaris]

Yay Jacs - that is fantastic news! Don't they say you need three nights to start a habit? Fingers crossed anyway! And doesn't 7 feel like such a lie in compared to 6?

We had a fab night too - bed at 7.15, asleep after ten minutes of practicing all his new sounds, didn't wake fora feed until 4.45 a.m. and then straight back to sleep till 7.30!!! I could live with this!

 

[TennisGal]

Fab news, ladies!! Jacs - hope you have a good day, with the celebrations. Has Evan bought his Daddy a pressie?

HiveChild - PU/PD really didn't work for us, either - made DD MUCH more grumpy!

Well, we are right in the middle of the six month growth spurt (at least we're thinking that's what it is!) DD woke for four feeds last night - and woke up around 6am. She was fine settling for bed and after her feeds...just hungry!

I'd put this up with the early spurts for feed frequency, and it's left me v. hungry - was chomping Dr Karg crackers at 4am.

Tbh, it's not that bad - as previously DD wouldn't settle during spurts, now she has her feed...gives a grin...rubs her eyes as if to say 'done, sleep please'.

DH got up with her this morning to allow me to sleep until 7:30, which was v.nice.

DD is now napping (drum roll, please...) IN HER COT!

 

[ms0206]

Fantastic news everyone.
Jacs fab news on sleeping through the night.
Hivechild: we swaddled our DD up until about 12weeks and then weaned her off it once we started SS as she wanted to suck her thumb and fingers. I also agree with Polaris about the bedtimes. Our wee one wasn't going down until much later when she was that age then brought it forward herself.
Well we had a really good night went down at 7 without any tears and was sleeping 15mins later until half 6 this morning. Already on first nap and she went down without any tears which is a first. She babbled to herself for 10-15mins then it all went quiet!!!

 

[polaris]

Wow TennisGal - DD definitely sounds very hungry! Good excuse for you to munch away on any leftover easter goodies though! Great that she's still settling after her feeds. And yay for napping in the cot!!! Drum roll trumpets drum roll!!

MS0206 - Brilliant news about the nap! I found that made such a huge difference to my stress levels when Thomas started going down for most of his naps with no or very little crying.

 

[PieMistress]

, sorry haven't posted (again) for ages, I need to go and catch up on everybody's progress! Kyle is nothing if inconsistent with his sleeping at the moment but after having a bit of a read of some books I think he is now ready to move from a (rough) 3-hour EASY routine to 3.5hrs and we will see how that goes. Seemingly (well, according to BW) this can be an indication - will see how it goes! Last night he woke twice for a feed but settled quickly afterwards and woke up and happily gurgled about 8am.

Will be back!! PS - we went cold turkey on the swaddling at about 12 weeks, it wasn't too bad.

xx

 

[hivechild]

Well I think we can call last night a success even though overall he slept about an hour less.

We started his bed time routine later around 8pm. We would have started 30-45 minutes later except that we were out at the park with our dog earlier in the evening and the monkey woke at 7pm so by the time we got home and got him fed it was closing on 8 and I didn't like his chances of a mini nap.

Anyway, he went down in his crib at 8:45 after a top up feed and was asleep at 9:40. Daddy took his turn sitting by the cot with him last night and I just sat back in the room and wouldn't you know it he got coos and smiles followed by grizzles and whinges but no actual escalating cries so there was zero pickups!

He woke a bit earlier than the past 2 nights for his night feed at 2:45 (3 & 3:30 the prior 2 nights) and in his cot by 3:30 and asleep at 4:20 once again with no pickups required!

He woke this morning at 6:45 as well this morning so still earlier but not bad.

I'm thinking if I can push that last feed to after 9 and closer to 9:30 he might sleep that little bit longer.

I'm not sure how to work in that evening nap though so that he's not awake for 2 1/2 hrs before going to sleep, or even if that's helping get him to sleep!

I'm also hoping that he will start settling quicker now going forward as mummy's insomnia reared it's ugly head last night and I only got 4 hours sleep in all of that. Nap time now that he's fallen asleep in his swing. I swear I only intended to put him in there for 10 mins while I got breakfast and daddy's lunch before he left for work!