Sleep Sense Support Group!

[PieMistress]

Ah PM, I know consistency is the key to this, but how do you think it would be with the shushing/stroking method for 3-6months? Maybe the picking up is stopping him falling asleep to some extent. If he's crying a lot anyway, perhaps it would be no worse to listen to? I know you may feel it's messing him about, just trying to think of some options for you!

That actually sounds like a good idea. When Thomas learned to settle himself at bedtime, the only reason it happened was because he was clearly getting totally frustrated being in my arms and wasn't able to fall asleep being held anymore, I think it had just got too stimulating for him. He would just cry and fuss for hours when I tried to rock him to sleep as I had done till then. I just looked back on my diary and he was twelve and a half weeks when this happened so about the same age as your little one is now. I had to just put him in the cot and let him fall asleep himself, I just rested my hand on his tummy while he was crying and he actually fell asleep much quicker that way. Might be worth a try to see if it is any easier?

I had thought about this!! Sleep Sense is the total opposite to the Baby Whisperer is that BW says PU/PD should be used for over 4months + as is too stimulating for those younger and that Shhhh/Pat should be used on 3 month olds! Confusing eh! Will get OH to purint off the 3-6 months chapter and have a read.

Kyle napped but only in the car today ..... lets see what tonight brings. I said to OH that when we decide to seriously concentrate on naps it would be good if he could take some time off as I would really struggle to do it all day on my own!

 

[TennisGal]

Hi Geekone - welcome! You can start Sleepsense from any age, have you had a look at the links?

Polaris - DD had big growth spurt at four months, she was feeding approx. double the usual amount. Few days of interrupted sleep, but we didn't have any kind of decent routine in place at that point. Just bath, BF and (attempt!) bed.

Our nap routine is close curtains in bedroom, ten minutes of some calming music (flute & harp today), snuggle with Mummy and in cot - can see Mummy reading her book on the bed.

Flowers - hope you have a better night

On the PU/PD - always makes DD much more agitated...shushing and patting has always calmed her more

WELL, we managed 30 mins of nap in the cot After that, she got quite upset...and her seeing me actually seemed to make it worse today SO, got up...and since then she's had very little nap time, as we had houseful...and she was loving it!

I've asked OH to take a few days off to help with naps, too - or we'll try in earnest over a long weekend.

She was actually watching me cook when she should have been napping - and laughing her head off at my singing (says a lot for my pitch!) which varied from Puccini to Florence & The Machine. Apparently all of it warrants hysterics!! SO cute (DD NOT my singing!)

She's tired now, she's rubbing her eyes...so we're bringing routine forward a bit. She's had a busy weekend, and has been a treasure with bedtimes.

How's everyone?

 

[Foogirl]

Hi

This sounds like a really good idea, please can you let me know what the best age to start it is, lo is not a bad night time sleeper except last night but I assume growth spurt) but really fights it during the day he is only wee so I am not too worried but I would like to try this when he is the right age.

Thanks

You can start it from the day they are born. It has different options for different ages of babies. Even though your night time sleep is ok, you might find the way he falls asleep affects how he naps in the day.

 

[history_girls]

Another successful put to bed tonight (day 3) and she didn't even dose on her bottle so i think she is realising sleep is in the cot! popped her in the cot wide awake and started on my puzzler (LO gets very agitated if i look at her), within 10 words of a wordsearch she was asleep! We've discovered she hates pu/pd but loves head stroking. but at bedtime we don't need. middle of the night we might!

Naps different matter (see earlier post)

I would recomend having oh off to tackle naps. I found the weekend 10 times easier as oh was around to support, debate stuff and take a turn. Shame he hasn't got any holiday left!

Going to keep going on naps.

 

[PieMistress]

Booo, just typed a huge message and lost it

I think we might change tack here. Kyle seems to escalate his cries when we PU and it takes ages for him to settle when we PD again.

Can anybody summarise the method that you are using? I read Dana's programme and it seems to be a case of putting LO in their cot and sitting beside them (for 3 nights) and if they are crying to either put a hand on their tummy and pat/stroke them and say a few key phrases until they eventually settle? Is that right?

He did go to bed okay tonight though, he did those sleep cries for about 20 minutes and some arm flailing then eventually fell asleep.

On my own tomorrow with naps. Going to concentrate on the morning nap only for starters as it's far too stressful staying in all day on my own and doing nap sleep training! Will put him in his sleeping bag about 1hr after waking and sit with him in the dim bedroom and cuddle/read to him.

Lets see how the night goes - good luck everybody! xx

 

[jacs]

Hi PM,
I know - BW and SS contradict each other, but I had nothing but screaming with PU/PD, when Evan was 13 weeks.

Yes, at first we sat next to the cot, although it was as dark as we could get it so he couldn't see us, but knew we were close. We only shushed occasionally, so that it didn't become a prop (talking stimulates him too much, so I go for long, quiet shushes instead of phrases). I stroked Evan's head when he was at the height of crying, and at that stage it didn't annoy him (couldn't do it now!). Obviously you would do the wind down routine first still. One thing I noticed was that being low down at his side was less distracting for him than leaning over him (even though he couldn't see us!).
We were very lucky that Evan was really ready for this, and we only did this for one night instead of 3 - after that we never touched him, and moved the chair further away (not how it's done in the book, but he just didn't need us!).

Good luck x

 

[flowers04]

ahhhh this is getting frustrating - i ended getting angry at lo today - of all days

she seems to be getting worse at settling herself than better - cries whenever we put her in the cot, gets angry with me when i feed her as i talk to her to keep her awake - she is well and truly fighting it grrrr

anyone been through this?

TG - Well done on the cot nap - u must be so happy

Polaris and PM - hope u have a better night tonight

Lyre - well done - lo's doing really well - i wish my lo would look forward to sleep . one q about ur nap rouine - when u put lo down is he wide awake??? i might have to try this method

im not sure when the growth spurts happened for my lo if they did - my hv just laughed when i asked if lo was going through one

HG - i totally agree about family not understanding about lo's sleep - my family have a habit of rocking lo and i don't have the heart to tell them not to

Polaris/TG - Do you give Sophie the giraffe at bed/nap times to lo or is it just a teething toy for them?

i hope everyone else had a good day

mini rant - i seriously need to be consistent with bedtime - does everyone put lo to bed at the same time or do you find it varies everyday - i just can't bring myself to put her to bed until after 7.30pm - because she wakes so frequently i keep thinking il let her get proper tired then put her down - i think im going craaaazzzyyy

 

[Foogirl]

We don't put her to bed at the same time but it is around the same time. Generally start the bath at as close to 6 as she will go and she's in bed by 6.45 usually.

Keeping her up later definitely results in her kicking off at bedtime and keeping her up too late is a recepie for disaster.

Maybe waiting for "proper tired" is causing problems?

 

[history_girls]

Flowers - we always start bedtime between 6.30 and 6.45. OH gets home at 6.30 and on a bad day it is straight to bed on a good day they have 15 min play before she is really grumpy. i think being over tired can be a prob. Sometimes it takes 2 mins for her to put herself to sleep, sometimes it takes 20 mins. but we don't get crying anymore

Got nothing planned today (yipee) so going to try naps.

Can anyone suggest a good nap routine? Does putting them in a sleeping bag work? she has one at bedtime?

Hope you all had better nights!

 

[TennisGal]

Morning!

Flowers - I tend to just give Sophie when DD is awake...if I give her anything at nap/bed time, she gets a bit cross!

I hope you have a better night tonight. We tend to start bedtime routine at 7:20ish...can go to 7:30, but no later. We try to act before DD gets very tired, as she then gets very upset.

PM - our routine was to start by sitting the cot, stroking head, shushing and repeating 'sleepy time' (three/four evenings, protesting)...we then moved to the middle of the room, kept repeating 'sleepy time', (one evening, bit of grumbling) Now we just say sleepy-time.
Start with bath, classical misic, feed.

I also found PU/PD made DD more agitated. Hope it goes well this evening

HG - we're on naps today, too! Good luck!

Hope all had a good night, DD was up a bit early - but other than that, very good!

 

[jacs]

flowers - hope you had a better night. Evan sometimes gets annoyed during his last feed. I tend to just put him to bed when he's like this, if he was that hungry he would want it more. Our bedtimes vary too, usually around 6.30pm when we put him down, but sometimes goes up to nearly 7pm.

HG - We put Evan in a sleeping bag for naps as he just sticks his legs through the bars! Also, it's to keep it the same as bedtime. Sometimes I take some of his clothes off though, so he's comfy and not too warm as the heating is on a lot through the day. We do: curtains closed, into bag, holding/swaying for a minute or so, then cot.

 

[lyre]

Morning everyone, hope things are good with you all.

PM, Max is always awake if a little drowsy when he goes into the cot.

HG, I find the sleeping bag and lullaby work really well and anyone can do it.

 

[polaris]

Flowers04 I think everyone probably has days like that where it seems like everything is going backwards instead of forwards. Hope today is a better day. We do have a pretty consistent bedtime, we generally start the bedtime routine at about 6.15 and then he is in bed between 6.45 and 7, depending how long it takes to wind him. Oh - sorry about the confusion about Sophie, we were a bit off topic chatting about her on this thread - she's just a teething toy.

HG - my naptime routine is pretty similar to Jacs. I also take some of his clothes off if I think he might be uncomfy/too warm in the sleeping bag. I don't think the naptime routine has to be too elaborate, just something to signal what is coming next. I think they get to associate the cot with sleep anyway no matter what routine you use. Good luck with naps today.

PM - Yes that is pretty much what we did for naps (he was already settling at bedtime). But I wouldn't be rigid about the 3 days - you will be able to judge by your LO whether you need to stay with them for longer or whether they can do without you sooner.

TennisGal - glad you had a good night - good luck with naps today!

We had a good night last night too - LO woke up at quarter to six again but I didn't go in to him (he wasn't crying, just chatting and shouting a bit) and he went back to sleep in about 15 minutes and slept for another hour till 7! Yay!!!

 

[PieMistress]

Can anyone suggest a good nap routine? Does putting them in a sleeping bag work? she has one at bedtime?

Hope you all had better nights!

We are starting with a nap routine today. With suggestions from others on here in mind I am going to put him in his sleeping bag, hold him in the dark bedroom and perhaps sway to the lullabies music I play at night when i'm feeding him.

Last night was a personal best for our wee man but I know it could be a one off and not happen again for a while! Finished feeding about 7.40pm but he had almost fallen asleep whilst feeding so gently blew on his face to rouse him (rather than fully wake him up which is what we had done in the past which really irritates him!) so his eyes were open when he went in the crib. He fussed for about 20 mins then OH laid his hand on his chest and he fell asleep until 01:30am (!!!!!) OMG, 6hrs between those feeds (and he'd been fussing at the boob too most of the day so I was shocked!). Then then went back in his crib, eyes open again and fussed a little more (but not as much) then slept until 05:40am (!!!).

Each time he woke up he seemed to be happily chewing on his thumb and hand before starting to grizzle for food and then I hung on another 10 mins as suggested by Dana before feeding him.

As he was up so early he's already down for a nap (!!) OH was brilliant this morning and managed to put him down for a nap in his crib before going to work. He hadn't started yawning yet but had been up for a good while so put him in his sleeping bag, cuddled him and OH rested his hand his chest and softly spoke the key words which worked and he's been asleep for 35 mins now (OH OH Just starting to stir!!!)

But he is showing he can do it!! It's just a case of perseverence isn't it and remembering that he can even in the middle of the night when everybody is crying!!

xx

 

[PieMistress]

PS - Kyle is still sleeping in our room. Are all your LOs now in their own rooms?

We have got a cot now too, just need to build it and transition him into that! Fingers crossed

x

 

[lyre]

Can anyone suggest a good nap routine? Does putting them in a sleeping bag work? she has one at bedtime?

Hope you all had better nights!

We are starting with a nap routine today. With suggestions from others on here in mind I am going to put him in his sleeping bag, hold him in the dark bedroom and perhaps sway to the lullabies music I play at night when i'm feeding him.

Last night was a personal best for our wee man but I know it could be a one off and not happen again for a while! Finished feeding about 7.40pm but he had almost fallen asleep whilst feeding so gently blew on his face to rouse him (rather than fully wake him up which is what we had done in the past which really irritates him!) so his eyes were open when he went in the crib. He fussed for about 20 mins then OH laid his hand on his chest and he fell asleep until 01:30am (!!!!!) OMG, 6hrs between those feeds (and he'd been fussing at the boob too most of the day so I was shocked!). Then then went back in his crib, eyes open again and fussed a little more (but not as much) then slept until 05:40am (!!!).

Each time he woke up he seemed to be happily chewing on his thumb and hand before starting to grizzle for food and then I hung on another 10 mins as suggested by Dana before feeding him.

As he was up so early he's already down for a nap (!!) OH was brilliant this morning and managed to put him down for a nap in his crib before going to work. He hadn't started yawning yet but had been up for a good while so put him in his sleeping bag, cuddled him and OH rested his hand his chest and softly spoke the key words which worked and he's been asleep for 35 mins now (OH OH Just starting to stir!!!)

But he is showing he can do it!! It's just a case of perseverence isn't it and remembering that he can even in the middle of the night when everybody is crying!!

xx

thats great, really encouraging, glad things are going well for you. My lo is in our room too at the moment x

 

[history_girls]

Great news PM!

Our LO has been in her own room since 8 weeks! OH goes to work really early and snores like a steam train!

 

[polaris]

Can anyone suggest a good nap routine? Does putting them in a sleeping bag work? she has one at bedtime?

Hope you all had better nights!

We are starting with a nap routine today. With suggestions from others on here in mind I am going to put him in his sleeping bag, hold him in the dark bedroom and perhaps sway to the lullabies music I play at night when i'm feeding him.

Last night was a personal best for our wee man but I know it could be a one off and not happen again for a while! Finished feeding about 7.40pm but he had almost fallen asleep whilst feeding so gently blew on his face to rouse him (rather than fully wake him up which is what we had done in the past which really irritates him!) so his eyes were open when he went in the crib. He fussed for about 20 mins then OH laid his hand on his chest and he fell asleep until 01:30am (!!!!!) OMG, 6hrs between those feeds (and he'd been fussing at the boob too most of the day so I was shocked!). Then then went back in his crib, eyes open again and fussed a little more (but not as much) then slept until 05:40am (!!!).

Each time he woke up he seemed to be happily chewing on his thumb and hand before starting to grizzle for food and then I hung on another 10 mins as suggested by Dana before feeding him.

As he was up so early he's already down for a nap (!!) OH was brilliant this morning and managed to put him down for a nap in his crib before going to work. He hadn't started yawning yet but had been up for a good while so put him in his sleeping bag, cuddled him and OH rested his hand his chest and softly spoke the key words which worked and he's been asleep for 35 mins now (OH OH Just starting to stir!!!)

But he is showing he can do it!! It's just a case of perseverence isn't it and remembering that he can even in the middle of the night when everybody is crying!!

xx

That's brilliant - it sounds like it is definitely working for you! As you say even if he doesn't do it again tonight, he is showing that he is moving in that direction which is fantastic!

Thomas is in his own room but only for about two weeks. I was really really reluctant to move him but I do find that he sleeps better as we were definitely disturbing him moving around in bed at night etc. Even having said that, I don't think I would have moved him any earlier than I did, I just didn't feel ready before.

 

[Elski]

Morning ladies! Happy Mothers Day for yesterday, I hope you all had lovely days..... and a restful night !

I've got a minging cold at the moment and as LO had her jabs a few days back and is still a bit unsettled so I've decided that this friday will be SLEEPSENSE START DAY I'm going to buy it today and spend the week reading through it all, then I'll tackle the night for the first couple of weeks, then start on naps (which is the bit I'm really dreading).

It's good to read all the success stories and little achievements on here - well done girls. And as for the small set-backs, I hope they all rectify themselves quickly (I'm sure they will).

One small question - LO sleeps in a co-sleeper (a 3-sided cot attached to our bed), do you think if I start all this now, it'll regress when we put her in her proper cot in her own room in a few months time?

 

[polaris]

Hi Elski - great that you've set a date to start! I don't think it should be much of a problem with the co-sleeper personally. At the worst you might have one or two bad nights and then things should just get back on track. When I moved Thomas from the Moses basket to his cot (still in my room) he had a terrible night's sleep the first night (awake nearly every hour - arggh!!) but by the following night he was back to normal and the next night he was totally used to it. When I moved him to his own room it made no difference at all to his ability to settle himself, he did seem a bit perplexed during the bedtime routine because we were in a different room but as soon as I put him in the cot he went straight to sleep - and I think he slept a bit better because we weren't disturbing him. As I said in a previous post, I still don't think I would have moved him any earlier than I did because I wasn't ready.