Sleep Sense Support Group!

[hivechild]

Cattia - That's fab news about Abigail! I hope that given a few more days it all clicks for her and she will be content to drop that feed altogether.

Cutie4evr01 - Poor you, and poor LO. It must be trying for all of you. I hope that she can adjust and start to get a little better sleep. This is exactly what I'm afraid of going on vacation with Ronan end of next month, too! How much longer do you have before you get back home?

Megewansmum - I'm not sure about the sticky thing. I think that one of the great things about BnB is that there are so many different people who follow so many different points of view and ways of going about things (see my sig ). I personally feel like just being an active member on the board and following threads where people are having sleep issues and asking for help has been the best way to share information and advice and to offer support. There have been quite a few people who made their way here after posting elsewhere on the board about their sleep troubles and one of us has pointed them in this direction!

----

Well, as for us, Ronan has gone back to sleeping much better the last few nights (knock on wood). It's funny but I was never quite sure about his development since he was born 2 weeks early, but his crappy sleep started right around 21 weeks of age, which is bang on in line with the 19 week developmental leap, and got better about a week and a half later (even if it felt like forever at the time)!

I know that it's nothing new to all of you with older LO's, but I've been able to really start noticing the changes in him, too. He's so much more aware and alert of his surroundings in a way that's hard to explain in words, and there's less flailing when he reaches for things. There have even been a few times when he's passed an object from one hand to the other, albeit clumsily still! Every day his coordination seems to improve and his movements are much smoother. Seeing him manipulate his toys is interesting, and he will happily sit in his jumperoo just trying to figure out all the bits and bobs. He's doing a lot more rolling about, too (both ways), and loves standing up as well. I keep trying to get him to spend more time sitting unsupported to work on his balance but as soon as I sit him up, he pushes and flings himself back trying to stand!

As some of you have already read in the weaning forum, I'm flailing back and forth with myself on the whole BLW thing as he's shown real interest in food and successfully passed the banana test a few times (with proof in his nappies the next morning!) but I'm not sure *I* am ready for it yet, so we're just going to take things slow for the next few weeks unless he starts being persistent about it.

I also got his doidy cup in the mail this week so I'm going to start teaching him to drink from that! I think that's a little adventure we may have to embark on outdoors and stripped down to his nappy.

Off to bed for me now. Sleepy dust and happy dreams to all of you and your LO's!

 

[polaris]

Good morning everyone.

Cattia - wow that is fantastic progress! It sounds like hard work but it does sound like hopefully she should be sleeping through by the time school starts back after the summer. You might find that her sleep becomes a bit more settled once the tooth breaks through - I know that many sleep books maintain that teething does not affect sleep, but I definitely find that Thomas has more random night wakings just before he gets a tooth. So I blame teeth anyway even if it's not backed up by research, LOL!

Cutie4evr - That doesn't sound like a relaxing holiday at all. We are going away for two weeks at the end of August and it is my worst nightmare that it would turn out like that. Thomas is similar in that he won't sleep for long anywhere except for his cot, he will cat-nap in the buggy or the sling but that's about it. He does sleep in the car seat but wakes up as soon as the car stops moving. The last time we went away, Thomas did not respond well to the travel cot at all - I keep meaning to put him in it for a couple of days while we are at home, to get him used to it, but the right time never seems to arrive! I really hope that she gets used to the new surroundings and settles down so that you can relax a little bit more for the rest of the holiday.

Hivechild - yay, so exciting that Ronan is making such progress! It is totally amazing at that age because they do just seem to do new stuff every single day! So glad that he's sleeping better too! Weaning is great fun but there's no harm waiting until you are ready - I think it's probably good to hold off as long as you can - he will let you know by becoming more insistent if you leave it too long!

Well Thomas seems to have got over his unsettled patch, he is going down perfectly for naps again, sleeping an hour in the morning and two hours in the afternoon. He seems to have settled into a pattern of waking at 6.30 and chatting to himself for a bit and then I get him up at 6.45. We haven't had a 5.30 start to the day in ages, touch wood! The only thing is that his night feed seems to have got earlier - he is now waking at 2.30 or 3 instead of 4 or 5. I don't know what that's about but he's still only waking once so I'm just going with the flow for now.

I've been thinking more about night feeds and I always said that I would try to go cold turkey on night feeds at nine months - well that is about a week away and I don't really feel ready to do it! I'm now thinking I might give him until he is a year old to drop the night feed naturally. Am I being silly? It's not really too much hassle for me to just get up and feed him and he does go straight back to sleep after his feed so the whole thing only takes 20 minutes maximum. What do you girls think? I know that he could go through the night without a feed but another part of me is thinking that he will drop it when he's ready?

 

[hivechild]

Polaris - I usually put Ronan down in his travel cot for his last nap of the day if it's later in the afternoon so I'm hoping that will help him get used to it. I may even try having him sleep in there a few nights before we go away so I know whether he can or will!

I'm glad to hear Thomas is doing better too. I don't know what I would do if I were you on the night feed. If it's no real problem I might be inclined to keep it, especially since I would usually be awake just as long if not longer just waking up to go to the loo anyway!

 

[cutie4evr01]

Thanks for your hugs! I am pleased to report last night went much better. She went to sleep at 6:30 and woke at midnight for a feed and again at 3:45 so I fed her again, but luckily did go back to sleep after that until 6. Then she took a 30-40 minute nap while we walked on the beach this morning and now has just gone down for a nap in her travel crib (10:10 am here). DH thinks since today is day 3 she is starting to settle in, because he read somewhere it takes 3 days for them to establish new routines. I'm hoping she'll spend some time today catching up on sleep she missed the past couple days. We'll be here for 5 more nights, so hopefully she'll settle in for a couple days before she's disrupted again when we go home. So I'm sure your travels will be fine too, even if you have a few awful nights, it seems that it may get better.

Polaris, I always think that mommy (or mummy) knows best! If you feel that he still needs a night feed and you are happy to do so, I think you should continue and don't feel guilty. It may be harder to break when he's older, but on the other hand he probably will drop it on his own when he's older anyway.

Hivechild, sounds like Ronan is doing terrific! I'm glad to hear his sleep has been better lately, and I agree that it is amazing to watch as their coordination develops! Don't worry about the sitting - Christina only started sitting unsupported for a few minutes at a time in the past week or two - he will be there before you know it! Good luck with the weaning - I think if he's ready it's ok to let him play a little, but I agree it's good to take it slow. We are doing traditional weaning and all she's had so far is baby oatmeal and some avocado I mushed up, but this morning she had some banana, and she loved it! She even did some chewing motions and was able to swallow some lumps (I was breaking off tiny pieces for her to eat rather than blending it). I'm finding weaning to be lots of fun so far.

 

[megewansmum]

Hello everyone...

Polaris - I think some babies drop the morning nap as early as 12 months but most babies its between 15-18 months. I'm hoping Megan will move to one nap earlier rather than later as I absolutely hate putting her down for them and it makes it so limiting as to where you can go and what you can do. I like her to sleep in her crib and we live 30 mins away from the nearest shop so by the time we've got there its pretty much time to come home again for the afternoon nap.

I think that as long as 20 mins in the night doesn't bother you, and Thomas seems such a lovely, happy and content little chappy then hey don't stress and do whatever you feel is right for you both. We planned to feed Megan once in the night as her low weight worried us but she weaned it herself so I'm sure Thomas will when he is ready too.

Cattia - I'm absolutely thrilled for you and Abigail. I really hope that it continues for you

Cutie4evr01 - My heart really goes out to you. I am in awe of anyone that can take their LO on vacation. I'm absolutely terrified at the prospect of her sleeping anywhere else other than in her crib with her blackout blinds and peace and quiet. We had planned to return to England for a visit before she was 6 months old and I was BF but with her being so poorly we never managed it. Now she's napping, STTN, supplemented on special formula for her milk allergy and has special bath solutions and creams for her skin plus the thought of the 4 hour time difference and the whole sleeping thing fills me with dread. I really hope your LO will settle for you again soon. Yeh for you for being brave enough to do it

Hivechild - Fantastic that Ronan is doing so much developmentally and that he is so happy too. I pondered for so long with Megan with the whole food issue too. I think Ronan will let you know when he's already although he passed the banana test with flying colours. Megan's been on solids since almost 6 months and I gave her a banana yesterday and all she did was mush it in her hands and use it as shampoo

 

[megewansmum]

Hi Polaris

Sorry I've been meaning to ask you this for a while as I'm not sure if I might try this with Megan. Why do you wake Thomas up from his morning nap after 1 hour rather than let him sleep for 1.5 hours in the morning and 1.5 hours in the afternoon?

I'm really scared to wake Megan as I don't want to get her into the habit of short napping again but the day she woke early herself at 45 mins then went until her normal nap time in the afternoon she was much happier.

Mind you today she seems much better (touch wood!)

 

[polaris]

Hi Polaris

Sorry I've been meaning to ask you this for a while as I'm not sure if I might try this with Megan. Why do you wake Thomas up from his morning nap after 1 hour rather than let him sleep for 1.5 hours in the morning and 1.5 hours in the afternoon?

I'm really scared to wake Megan as I don't want to get her into the habit of short napping again but the day she woke early herself at 45 mins then went until her normal nap time in the afternoon she was much happier.

Mind you today she seems much better (touch wood!)

The reason why I started waking him after an hour from his morning nap was to try to stop him waking up for the day at 5.30 a.m. I read somewhere that babies who wake early often take a long morning nap to compensate so by keeping the morning nap relatively short you encourage them to sleep longer in their night time sleep instead. Also by limiting the morning nap to an hour, I found that he started to take a longer nap in the afternoon (usually a full two hours) which tides him over better until bedtime now that he is not having a third nap.

Glad to hear that Megan is in better form today.

 

[hivechild]

I wish Ronan would take longer than 30-45 minute naps in the morning! I am beginning to think that part of his sleeping shoddily when he has an off night is when he has really long naps late in the afternoon (2+ to 3 hrs long). It might just be coincidence but it seems like he doesn't sleep as well or long for that first stretch of the night. I don't know if it's the nap itself, or because he doesn't feed as much in the time he's awake before going down for the night. Even if I feed him when he wakes from the nap, and then again just before bed, the interval isn't long enough for my supply to have replenished enough for him to take a good proper feed right before bed (and he's still kind of full from the feed an hour or so before that).

Oh, and I don't know how I missed your post saying you missed jacs awhile ago Polaris, but I miss her too! Does anyone know where she's gotten to these days?

 

[Cattia]

Hi all

Glad to hear most of you are doing well. Cutie, I hope you have another more settled night, I am sure that it does take a while to getused to new surroundings and a different routine.

Hive - I love it when they go through those phases of real change. I really noticed it with Abigail when she was 6 months, it seemed like every morning she was different from the day before!

Polaris - gladto hear that Thomas is more settled. Sounds like he is doing really well. I think if you are happy with Thomas doing one night feed then keep it going. I decided we needed to stop the night feeds becasue we were on three,and I didn't want to end up stopping some but not others in case it gave mixed messages. If we had been reliably on one, I think I would have stayed with it.

Has Jacs gone AWOL? What about TG? I miss her, she came back for a brief while then went again

Well, progress for us!! Last night, Abigail went down at 7pm and we didn't hear from her again until 6am! It's the first time ever that I have not had to get up and re-settle her.I am not expecting her to do it again tonight, but it has made me feel that it was OK to drop the night feed. It has been really hard sitting up with her for long periods in the night, but to have gone from three feeds down to none, I would say it has been worth it. I hope it is not just a fluke. I bet now she will be awake three times again tonight!

Sleepy dust to you all

 

[PieMistress]

Hi Peeps,

I will write a more comprehensive update later on today, Kyle will be up soon and i'm not even dressed or had my morning coffee!

Cattia - YOU GIVE ME HOPE!!! To get down from 3 nights feeds to sleeping through the night is fantastic, you have done soooooo well! Did you always stay in the room with Abigail and speak to her (no touching?) or did you go in and out of the room at set intervals? Was there much crying? I think we are going to have to bit the bullet as the constant broken nights of sleep is really starting to get OH & I down and i'm back to work soon

xx

 

[polaris]

Cattia - wow congratulations! Abigail is doing so well with her sleeping! I know tonight could still be different but I bet it won't be long now before she is consistently sleeping through. Consistency really pays off doesn't it?

Off topic - but Thomas has made such huge developmental leaps in the last day or two. He has started proper crawling as well as his usual commando crawling, he is now able to take a few steps independently with his walker, he is pulling himself up on everything, and this morning when I went in to check on him at five past 7 as he was still asleep (very unusual for him), he woke up, sat straight up in the cot (first time I've ever seen him go from lying down to sitting) and then pulled himself to standing on the cot bars! Plus he has his fourth tooth just about to come through. He just seems to be moving an an incredible pace at the moment, no wonder he was a bit unsettled!

Probably the next thing is going to be going back and lying him back down multiple times at bedtime - as he has absolutely no idea how to sit down again from a standing position.

 

[TennisGal]

hi ladies - hope you are all well, and great to see how well all the LOs are doing

DD has me on my toes at the moment, she's going about 100mph...and investigating absolutely everything!! P - get ready to say goodbye to any sitting down time, lol, they get SO inquisitive and brave, it's hilarious! We've been babyproofing non stop, as her favourite things are leads, electronics...the usual heartstopping baby magnets! argh!

She's still waking for a night feed most of the time, but I'm so used to it, I've decided to just go with it...tbh, she's pretty much ready to drop her mid morning feed...so I kinda want to make sure she has enough milk until she's one. Does that sound ridiculous or ok? She's only on morning, mid morning and evening...and she just doesn't seem that bothered by mid morning, so the 3am-er will keep her milk levels up?

She's been very unsettled with the heat, but we're back in a routine (even if the mornings are slightly earlier some days!) She was in a bit of a habit of standing up and shouting until she came in with us, but we've found that shushing and rocking her has worked well. Strange she likes PUPD down now, but used to hate it!

She's just a delight I love watching all the joy she gets from learning a new skill

We're off on holiday soon, and I'm very excited - we're eating out a lot, so will be a real BLW fun time!

((hugs)) to all xx

 

[megewansmum]

Hi everyone...sorry having terrible trouble with this site and had to contact the administrator. I couldn't see any posts past my last one. Apparently it was a cache problem and she helped me sort it. Hope you are all ok.

Polaris - Thanks, I wondered if that was the case with waking Thomas during the first nap. I think I would just panic that if I put her down at 1pm and she only short napped then its such a long time till bedtime. I think its a good idea as a longer afternoon nap is what you're aiming for once they start having just 1 nap a day Great to hear that Thomas is doing so well. I think once they get their minds set on doing something they don't rest until its accomplished. Megan is still making no effort to even try to crawl but can now sit herself up from lying down. This isn't such a great thing as both naps today she was bang upright as soon as I laid her down. She hasn't figured out how to lie down again though which is a bit of a pain. Dreading when she's standing upright in the night like you said.

Cattia - Fantastic news about Abigail. I'm soooo happy for you and hope it continues. Once she gets into the swing of it she will be fine. You may get the odd night of testing but if you continue to do what you have been doing then all will be well. Thankfully Megan never ever tested us in the night (touch wood) but I have heard that it can happen.

The past few days Megan seems to be back to her normal happy self so I don't know what it was but I'm glad its over for the time being. She has no more teeth so it can't have been that.

 

[polaris]

TennisGal
So good to see you, we have missed you! Sounds like your DD is doing great! We are the same with the one night feed - I have also decided to just go with it for the foreseeable future, it really doesn't take long and I don't mind feeding him at night so for me it is easier that having to go through the difficult nights that would be needed to encourage him to drop the feed. Where are you going on your holidays?

You are right, Thomas is really starting to get into everything, we are also spending all our time baby-proofing. There are just so many hazards and Thomas is also really attracted to cables, wires, the cords of the blinds, anything he can pull down on top of himself, etc.

We had a lovely day today, we visited a friend who has a baby a little younger than Thomas and spent the morning with her. I was a bit worried about his napping as he fell asleep in the car seat on the way home (it was time for his nap anyway) but then woke up when we got home. It's only about half an hour's drive so definitely not enough sleep. But when I put him in the cot he screamed and got upset even though he was clearly still tired. I ended up having to give him a quick feed and then thankfully he went back off to sleep for another hour and a half. Thank god for breastfeeding sometimes, it is nice to have a sure-fire way of calming them down when all else fails!

 

[history_girls]

Evening ladies and babies!

Well no posts from me because she has been so good with her sleep - except two really early starts today and yesterday but i don't mind really! She is sleeping brilliantly at night and naps are fine. She can just about crawl forward but whizzes backward! Her favourite toys are leads!

Was Oh's 30th Yesterday so we went out for a meal for the first time in over 9 months!! it was lovely.

Cattia - so pleased for you! Go Abigail!!!!

Right last day of term tomorrow = Whooooooooo 5 weeks off Whoooooooooo so I need to prepare myself for battle!

 

[TennisGal]

Helloooo!!

Thomas and DD clearly loving the same things, DD is obsessed with leads, cables - with a special penchant for computer cables, the hoover cable and my mobile phone. I came into find her eating it earlier...literally, I was two seconds (chasing boy cat out of the room, he had dirty feet) HOW did she get it?!

We're off to Cornwall - keeping it quite low key this year, although the amount of stuff I've packed would mean that going anywhere outside England would have required a private jet I'm pleased DD enjoys fish, as we'll be eating lots of that. She had haddock loin, roasted vegetables and mash for dinner...and ate the fish first.

I'm with you on the BF-calming approach. Works wonders! Especially in the middle of the night Totally agree on the night feed, thing - I just take it as a bonus the nights where she decides she's not peckish.

Glad you had a lovely day

 

[TennisGal]

HG - five weeks off!!

 

[Cattia]

Evening all.

TG - so nice to see you, and so happy to hear that DD is doing so well! I know what you mean about holidays, when we went to Devon there was hardly room for us in the car once we had packed everything we needed! I hope you have a lovely time. Make sure you have lots of cornish cream teas.

Polaris, it sounds asthough Thomas is going great guns! I know I might eatmy words,but I can't wait for Abigail to crawl. I think it will be so exciting for her to be on the move,but I do think we are going to have a lot of work to do to babyproof the house.

PM - I will leave Abigail for up to ten minutes but after that I will go to her. I found that what worked well was sitting in the chair in her room and just keeping on repeating 'sleep time now Abigail, night night'. The worst night it took almost an hour, but she cried on and off, and it got less, it was never full on screaming so that made it easier to cope with, and the fact that she could see I was there made it easier as I knew she was not crying because she thought I had abandoned her, which worried me.

Well, last night was not quite so good but still a great improvement. DH was away so I was on my own, which meant I was more on edge and didn't sleep at all well anyway. Abigail;s tooth seems to be bothering her, maybe she has another one coming through, as she has been waking up screaming and ramming her fist in her mouth. She did this a few times last night but re-settled within minutes. The only time she really started screaming and would not settle was at 5.30. I thought about feeding her, but I don't want her to start thinking that is morning, so I went in, turned her on her side and put her thumb in her mouth, whcih seems to work well. She re-settled and then slept until 6.30am
Now we have come this far though, I feel that I can'tre-introduce the night feed no matter how bad our nights are as I don't want her to get mixed messages.

Anyway, I hope you all have great nights. HG - hoory fir the holidays

 

[TennisGal]

Cattia - you are going great guns! Brilliant for you and for Abigail!

Crawling is brilliant - exhausting, but SO brilliant. It's the utter joy on their faces at being able to move!! We had to get a playpen, because if I need to go to the loo or answer the door etc, DD is right behind me. I nipped to the loo the other day, and found DD eating a shoe I freaked out (germaphobe)

She doesn't seem to mind being in it, as it's just for five mins etc.

When I go into the kitchen, I always get the giggles, as I can hear this determined little patter and 'rararararar' noise right behind me

Looking forward to the cream teas - I've got no baby weight left, so feel like I deserve a couple I'll probably manage to accumulate it ALL back again! hahaha

 

[hivechild]

Glad to see you poke your heads in TG & HG, and it's good to see everyone's LO's are doing well!

I think I spoke too soon with Ronan's sleep getting better again as our last few nights have gone to pot again. He keeps rolling himself into corners or the bars and then getting stuck because he only rolls in the one direction. I figured him rolling in his cot wouldn't be bad since he can roll front to back and back to front, and doesn't mind sleeping either way, but I never considered that he can't roll back the other way and would get annoyed and cry when he ran out of rolling room! He'll roll himself from one side of the room to the other in the blink of an eye if I put him down on the floor these days.

He also took a marathon 2 hr and 45 min nap late this afternoon so we'll see whether he sleeps any better tonight. He's only been doing about 4-5 hours in the beginning of the night which is highly unusual for him. I hope it's not a new trend he intends on continuing!