soy isoflavones vs clomid

[neuros]

Hi,

I did some research on soy isoflavones on the net and am pretty interested in trying it out since the last 3 rounds of clomid did nothing for me at all and I'm not keen to up the dosage further (i was on 150mg last 2 rounds).

i'm not clear on some points though - can someone help me answer some qns?

* soy is thought to decrease fertility except when taken in the first 5 days like clomid - is that right?

* Is the first 5 days CD1-5 / CD2-6 / CD3-7 / CD5-9??? I've seen various different ranges so don't know which is the right one.

* i've seen varying recommendations for dosages too - incl 50mg / 80mg / 150~200 mg. how do i know what's the right one to start?

* when I'm on clomid, my FS will do scans and blood tests to determine whether i ovulated. when on soy isoflavones, how will i know whether it worked or not? is it the basal temperature? strangely i've not been able to find a basal thermometer for sale so never really knew how to do it. is there any other way?

thanks in advance!

 

[PrayerfulHope]

Hi,

I did some research on soy isoflavones on the net and am pretty interested in trying it out since the last 3 rounds of clomid did nothing for me at all and I'm not keen to up the dosage further (i was on 150mg last 2 rounds).

i'm not clear on some points though - can someone help me answer some qns?

* soy is thought to decrease fertility except when taken in the first 5 days like clomid - is that right?

* Is the first 5 days CD1-5 / CD2-6 / CD3-7 / CD5-9??? I've seen various different ranges so don't know which is the right one.

* i've seen varying recommendations for dosages too - incl 50mg / 80mg / 150~200 mg. how do i know what's the right one to start?

* when I'm on clomid, my FS will do scans and blood tests to determine whether i ovulated. when on soy isoflavones, how will i know whether it worked or not? is it the basal temperature? strangely i've not been able to find a basal thermometer for sale so never really knew how to do it. is there any other way?

thanks in advance!

I don't think that soy decreases fertility, that's silly. Maybe if you take high doses all month, obviuosly it will raise your estrogen levels greatly for a while which make it impossible to conceive, however I got pregnant after taking soy and so have many other ladies that I know.
I was not ON soy when I got pregnant, it was several months later, but it was because of taking soy after failed clomid(by failed I don't mean I just didn't get pregnant, I mean that it failed to make me ovulate. There is a very big difference. Clomid usage that results in ovulation but not pregnancy is not a failed use of clomid. Clearly in that instance the clomid did what it was meant to do.) that brought on ovulation.
You can chart your BBT using a regular thermometer. You do not need a special thermometer. The difference is that a Basal thermometer goes over to the hundredth decimal place rather than a regular thermometer which goes to the tenth.
You can also help track but not confirm ovulation with the use of Ovulation Prediction Kits.

I used 80 mg soy from cd 2-6 to induce ovulation, and it worked. I ovulated for several months on my own after discontinuing the use of soy.
I suggest starting at a low dose, and the days you use it will determine when and how strongly you ovulate. Earlier usage will result in more, less mature follies, while a later dose (as late as cd5-9) will result in a later, stronger ovulation, a more mature egg.

 

[neuros]

I don't think that soy decreases fertility, that's silly. Maybe if you take high doses all month, obviuosly it will raise your estrogen levels greatly for a while which make it impossible to conceive, however I got pregnant after taking soy and so have many other ladies that I know.
I was not ON soy when I got pregnant, it was several months later, but it was because of taking soy after failed clomid(by failed I don't mean I just didn't get pregnant, I mean that it failed to make me ovulate. There is a very big difference. Clomid usage that results in ovulation but not pregnancy is not a failed use of clomid. Clearly in that instance the clomid did what it was meant to do.) that brought on ovulation.
You can chart your BBT using a regular thermometer. You do not need a special thermometer. The difference is that a Basal thermometer goes over to the hundredth decimal place rather than a regular thermometer which goes to the tenth.
You can also help track but not confirm ovulation with the use of Ovulation Prediction Kits.

I used 80 mg soy from cd 2-6 to induce ovulation, and it worked. I ovulated for several months on my own after discontinuing the use of soy.
I suggest starting at a low dose, and the days you use it will determine when and how strongly you ovulate. Earlier usage will result in more, less mature follies, while a later dose (as late as cd5-9) will result in a later, stronger ovulation, a more mature egg.

thanks prayerfulhope for the quick revert! yes - by failed clomid i meant that i didn't ovulate on it. doc says i've stubborn follicles.

i've never had a +ve on OPK's before either, tho doc say i do ovulate, just not every month. and since i've v irregular cycles, OPK's tend to be exp for me. perhaps i'll try doing the BBT then - which is taking my body temperature 1st thing in morning when i get up, right?

crossing fingers...

 

[clairew22]

It can change your cycle, how long was your cycle before?

You could ovulate as late as CD 21 by taking them on cd 5-9. Did you track ovulation?

Hi my cycle was normally 46 days on average no longer than 49 do not think i was ovulating. i did track but got frustrated with them.

its driving me crazy loads of success stories but not many stories of it messes you up only when you are ovulating!

How many mg were you taking?

I'm sorry it seems to have messed with your cycle, are you charting? this is the only real way to know if you are actually "late" or not..
And you can ovulate with a 49 day cycle, just takes longer. Don't let people tell you that a long cycle means you don't ovulate.

Hi thanks for coming back to me no ive not been charting i always forget and get up to go to loo or something and then think it wont be a correct temp. i was using opks but no really dark lines.

holland and barret soya is 23mg and i started on 2 tablets but raised it to 3 when i realised they were only 23mg days 5-9.

My last period was december 5th and there is no signs of it coming other than soar nips ( sorry tmi ).

Getting me really down now i just want to start again I have baught some soya from tescos now they are 40mg.

thanks for your support

 

[PrayerfulHope]

I don't think that soy decreases fertility, that's silly. Maybe if you take high doses all month, obviuosly it will raise your estrogen levels greatly for a while which make it impossible to conceive, however I got pregnant after taking soy and so have many other ladies that I know.
I was not ON soy when I got pregnant, it was several months later, but it was because of taking soy after failed clomid(by failed I don't mean I just didn't get pregnant, I mean that it failed to make me ovulate. There is a very big difference. Clomid usage that results in ovulation but not pregnancy is not a failed use of clomid. Clearly in that instance the clomid did what it was meant to do.) that brought on ovulation.
You can chart your BBT using a regular thermometer. You do not need a special thermometer. The difference is that a Basal thermometer goes over to the hundredth decimal place rather than a regular thermometer which goes to the tenth.
You can also help track but not confirm ovulation with the use of Ovulation Prediction Kits.

I used 80 mg soy from cd 2-6 to induce ovulation, and it worked. I ovulated for several months on my own after discontinuing the use of soy.
I suggest starting at a low dose, and the days you use it will determine when and how strongly you ovulate. Earlier usage will result in more, less mature follies, while a later dose (as late as cd5-9) will result in a later, stronger ovulation, a more mature egg.

thanks prayerfulhope for the quick revert! yes - by failed clomid i meant that i didn't ovulate on it. doc says i've stubborn follicles.

i've never had a +ve on OPK's before either, tho doc say i do ovulate, just not every month. and since i've v irregular cycles, OPK's tend to be exp for me. perhaps i'll try doing the BBT then - which is taking my body temperature 1st thing in morning when i get up, right?

crossing fingers...

Believe me I know about how expensive OPK testing can get, with 60 + day cycles!! I bought cheap OPK in bulk, they worked for me, then when I would get a positive on the cheap opk I would confirm with a more expensive "brand" OPK.
You can check saveontests.com for pee sticks in bulk, or ebay also sells OPK in bulk. I think I spent $25 for 100 tests or something like that.
Good luck lovely!

 

[PrayerfulHope]

It can change your cycle, how long was your cycle before?

You could ovulate as late as CD 21 by taking them on cd 5-9. Did you track ovulation?

Hi my cycle was normally 46 days on average no longer than 49 do not think i was ovulating. i did track but got frustrated with them.

its driving me crazy loads of success stories but not many stories of it messes you up only when you are ovulating!

How many mg were you taking?

I'm sorry it seems to have messed with your cycle, are you charting? this is the only real way to know if you are actually "late" or not..
And you can ovulate with a 49 day cycle, just takes longer. Don't let people tell you that a long cycle means you don't ovulate.

Hi thanks for coming back to me no ive not been charting i always forget and get up to go to loo or something and then think it wont be a correct temp. i was using opks but no really dark lines.

holland and barret soya is 23mg and i started on 2 tablets but raised it to 3 when i realised they were only 23mg days 5-9.

My last period was december 5th and there is no signs of it coming other than soar nips ( sorry tmi ).

Getting me really down now i just want to start again I have baught some soya from tescos now they are 40mg.

thanks for your support

With a dose that low I can't be sure I can give you any accurate advice. You may not have taken enough to force an ovulation. Next time try to take a higher dose. Also, I know temping is a pain in the butt but it is an INCREDIBLY useful tool in understanding your body, and a lot of times your doctor will ask you to temp for a few cycles before they do testing or treatment. It is very effective in detecting ovulation, FS and LP.
Set an alarm earlier than you would normally get up to make sure you temp on that alarm. Then when your normal alarm goes off it wont matter if you push "snooze" because you will have already temped. You can get a thermometer that stores your last temp and so all you have to do is stick it in your mouth and go back to sleep. Then when you actually get up for the day you can push the button and your temp from earlier in the morning will be stored on there and you can record it then. There are also some with lights in them so you don't have to turn on the light to read the temp if you want to do it that way.
Good luck!

 

[schnoodle]

hi girlies in trying soy for the first time tnight, gona try 80mg or would you try 120? i have 40mg capsuels??

i know i ovulate, i just havnt got pregnant yet on over a year so hoping soy will help x

 

[sunnysun]

hey ladies, thought to join you in this intersting thread,

Neuros do you have PCOS? just asking cause i read you cycle is irregular and don't when you O.

Clomid did nt work on me either..so i'll be trying soya isoflavones in my next cycle, i read that you need at least to take 80mg, on top of that you drink or eat soya that can count as well although it doesn't have much of affect on its own.

claire- i found some on amazon, there are 30 capsules with 40mg in each. Have a look at it https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_s...rds=soya+isoflavones&sprefix=soya+isoflavones

 

[neuros]

sunnysun - my 1st gynae mentioned i might have pcos and gave me a brochure to read. but my 2nd gynae (fertility specialist) didn't say anything about it at all.

in any case, even if i have pcos, not sure what can be done about it since the brochure said to take contraceptive pills (which is obviously not feasible since i'm ttc!) and lose weight (which I'm trying to do, though progress is slow). any suggestions / advice very welcome!

 

[PrayerfulHope]

You can have irregular cycles without having pcos. I did. Hormone imbalances.
schnoodle - has your OH had a sperm count done? And have you had progesterone levels etc checked out as well?
Soy will probably help your cycle if there is anything wrong, but it won't help much if OH's sperm count is low. Unfortunately there isn't much you can do about that. My OH took fertility blend for men and it increased his sperm count but it was still on the very very veery low side. Would be good for someone with a borderline sperm count I think!!! sorry that was off subject.

 

[sunnysun]

Did you have scan on your ovary? if so your doc would have been able to tell you if you have PCOS, it may be that your hormones are not working properly, but if you have PCOS, unfortunately there is no cure, we just have to live with it!!
Things like clomid or soya isoflavones should help at least with O.

The says to take pill just cause in this way you rest your ovary and hormones, but it doesn't solve the problem so yeah if you TTC there is no point.

Are you taking soya iso.?

 

[neuros]

yep - had many many scans. gynae didn't mention pcos though...

i'm looking to start soy next cycle. waiting for AF to arrive first.

i didn't O on 150mg clomid. anyone knows if that means i need to start on a higher dose of soy to start with? the tabs i wanted to buy are in 50mg - wondering whether i should start with 150mg soy...

 

[sunnysun]

oh, if he didn't mention the you may not have it.

150mg of clomid is quite a lot, no? clomid doesn't work with everyone, i tried it for several months and didn't work on me.
I haven't tried soya yet but it works with a lot of people..I use chinese herbs to O, the only thing that worked on me!

 

[DOBBY]

Hi there, was hoping someone can help? Have been trying to conceive for just over 5 years, Have been under fs for a year and was seeing doc for about 18 months before that and wasn't too worried in the 2 years before that due to having 2 ops and family stresses. We have been put in the unexplained category but have had a couple of low progesterone tests, OH's SA fine, lap and dye clear apart from 2 small spots of endo. Fs will not prescribe clomid so was thinking about trying the soy isoflavones, my cycles are anything between 24 to 28 days but i start spotting between 3 and 5 days before af arrives. Which days should i take them? and how many mgs? I have bought some from tesco today they are 40 mg capsules but after reading the ingredients it says containing 10% soya isoflavones. Sorry this is long winded but wanted to get a bit of back ground info up as i really don't want to mess this up, any help would be much appreciated, thankyou.x

 

[PrayerfulHope]

yep - had many many scans. gynae didn't mention pcos though...

i'm looking to start soy next cycle. waiting for AF to arrive first.

i didn't O on 150mg clomid. anyone knows if that means i need to start on a higher dose of soy to start with? the tabs i wanted to buy are in 50mg - wondering whether i should start with 150mg soy...

Start with 100mg of soy. You don't want to hyper stimulate your ovaries.
Also if you have been on clomid for a while, take a few months break to give your body time to adjust back to normal. When was your last clomid cycle? Wait at least 3 clomid free cycles before starting soy. You don't want to stress your body out!

 

[neuros]

my last clomid cycle was in Jan - so technically am still in same cycle waiting for AF. didn't know have to wait 3 months! i guess i've been trying for so long getting impatient. 3 months wait is another 3 months closer to the 35 year old mark. sigh..

 

[sunnysun]

dobby I have got mine from Amazon https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mind-Body-...5MLI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1296671694&sr=8-2 it says there are 40mg in there..not sure if you in the UK though?

neuros is this your first? i'm 32 and starting to feel the pressure!

 

[DOBBY]

Hi sunny thanks for replying, yes i'm in the uk, just had a look at your link and mine are the same just from tesco, how many do you think i should take and what days? any suggestions much appreciated.x

 

[sunnysun]

is 40 mg - 10 % soya? i didn't know that! i haven't started mine yet (waiting for AF to arrive) i will be taking 2, 80mg to start with on day 3-7 anything from 80mg should be good. Have you been taking them before?

 

[neuros]

hi sunnysun - i'm 34 and been trying since > 2 yrs ago. if and when i succeed, yes this'll be my first.