Spouses with low sperm count.

[Briss]

WhiteOrchid, thank you so much for your support. that really helps me get through this continues nightmare. I do not actually blame myself (maybe I should), I blame a little bit my DH and a lot the universe

My DH is generally healthy but he does have lots of social drinking. His last SA was around 10 mil, with normal motility and only 1% morphology. Last night he was out drinking until 5 in the morning so he basically had 3 hour sleep before showing up at the urologists and going for tests, (I am shaking with anger as I type)

 

[WhiteOrchid24]

Definitely do not blame yourself or really your DH, but do blame the universe!! It's such a crappy situation and unfortunately out of your control so in my eyes the universe is to blame for that!! If it makes you feel any better the night before my DH's first SA he ended up getting quite drunk! We had a really tough day as at a funeral and so we had some wine with dinner. I went to bed early and had no idea until way after the test that he had stayed up and drank quite a bit more!! As it turns out the motility from that test was WAY better than his last one when he hadn't had anything to drink!! Go figure - Still.....men!

The whole sperm situation really frustrates me....I have NO idea why DH's is so bad other than I know his Dad mentioned once that he was told he had a low count but had 2 kids no problem so told DH to just ignore it.... I worry if it is hereditary then my poor DS has no chance! Still we eat really well, drink only moderately at weekends, don't smoke and get exercise although DH could probably do with getting a bit more but he works hard and at time very labour intensive jobs and is a very healthy weight etc so I don't get it. Chances are though his count has always been like this and either we just got super lucky only taking 5 months to conceive our DS or something else - I don't know other than the fact it was meant to be....

I'm here to talk whenever you want to as I totally understand the frustrating, horrible situation we are in and the lack of control we have over the one thing we want more than anything

 

[Briss]

WhiteOrchid, thank you so much for being so understanding. I so hope we will get lucky soon.

 

[Briss]

I just noticed that the urologist asked my DH to do sperm reactive oxidative test. Has anyone done that before? seems quite useful https://www.clevelandclinic.org/reproductiveresearchcenter/pub/uronews_2007_1.pdf

 

[Relaxedlevis]

Hi everyone - I've been TTC for awhile with my wife and we haven't had any luck. We went to the doctor and they referred us to a specialist. They had me do a SA but found it to be not terrible - about 17 mil. They then looked into my wife and found that she was perfect condition. So then it went back to me. After they gave up and couldn't find anything I looked to the Internet for some help and found this thread on this forum. WOW I must say - I redid my SA's before and had 9 mil per ML and 20% motility in about a 6 ML total sample. To now after vitamins - I'm at 30 mil per ML and 48% motility with 7ML total sample. Needless to say the doctors are confused because they really don't believe it is vitamins but it really is. My wife and I are now working a little more happy with TTC with my results.

 

[Briss]

More bad news for me. The urologist looked through DH's new SA and bloods and he started talking about lifestyle changes to address his 0% morphology! (that's the first time we got down to 0) and he did confirm that alcohol affects morphology so DH should not exceed 5 units a week (he also said that any physical exercise for more than 30 min will affect SA as the body temp goes up killing sperm and any tight sports wear affects the sperm as well but of course we know that I was just happy DH heard it from an expert) but then I told the urologist that we have in fact done all that antioxidants etc and he did 3 months off beer and was taking vitamins etc but his SA was never above 11/12 mil. The urologist then looked through all DH's previous SAs over the last 3.5 years (I put together a table with all the info and attached the results). After that he said that unfortunately he now sees a totally different picture because his SA goes up and down but never reaches normal levels so clearly lifestyle changes are not going to make any difference.

The urologist said that usually there is an underlying reason why this happens. This cannot be caused by an obstruction because obstruction is characterised by low SA volumes, high PH and it never fluctuates it only goes down while DH's SA volumes are always around 2-6, PH is normal and the count fluctuates.

The other major potential problem is genetic. If there is a genetic issue it will affect the sperm cos it will make the dna unstable and the embryo not viable. (btw it's nothing to do with various diseases being passed on genetically). I have not researched this yet but basically there are two options: either you get it on conception or while in your mother's womb but in both scenarios I understand there is nothing that can be done. SA will never improve whatever you do. the fact that I had chemical may also indicate that if the sperm had this chromosomal abnormality it made the embryo unstable so basically there is only way for us is to improve the math i.e. to have stim IVF to get many eggs and observe embryos in the lab for longer to pick the good one for ET. unfortunately I had to tell him that with my FSH this is not an option for us. we could only do natural IVf and he said in our case natural IVF does not increase our odds compared to TTC naturally. So basically this is the end of the road. We may get lucky or we may not.

If Dh's genetic test comes back as normal then he said we could try and increase his numbers by throwing ever known treatment at poor DH. The urologist said there is no point in wasting money on any more tests and it's more practical to just go through and try treatments including antibiotics (there is a possibility of some infections being undetected), tricking DH's body into producing more testosterone etc. To be honest when I went there I was hoping he will suggest just that and I just was not ready for the genetic thing. he said he understands the despair but it is what it is and we need to know it because he sees men getting their women pregnant with DH's low numbers and because it's been 3.5 years and nothing, it makes him feel that there is a reason.

If it comes back as bad news do I leave my DH? I do not think I can I do love him. what the hell do I do, I cant live without children. I feel numb, It's been a tough journey going progressively from bad to worse. Every time I am struck I try to get up and get struck even harder.

 

[CaliDreaming]

Hi everyone - I've been TTC for awhile with my wife and we haven't had any luck. We went to the doctor and they referred us to a specialist. They had me do a SA but found it to be not terrible - about 17 mil. They then looked into my wife and found that she was perfect condition. So then it went back to me. After they gave up and couldn't find anything I looked to the Internet for some help and found this thread on this forum. WOW I must say - I redid my SA's before and had 9 mil per ML and 20% motility in about a 6 ML total sample. To now after vitamins - I'm at 30 mil per ML and 48% motility with 7ML total sample. Needless to say the doctors are confused because they really don't believe it is vitamins but it really is. My wife and I are now working a little more happy with TTC with my results.

That is very very encouraging progress. I'm sure you two will have a bfp in no time.

 

[CaliDreaming]

More bad news for me. The urologist looked through DH's new SA and bloods and he started talking about lifestyle changes to address his 0% morphology! (that's the first time we got down to 0) and he did confirm that alcohol affects morphology so DH should not exceed 5 units a week (he also said that any physical exercise for more than 30 min will affect SA as the body temp goes up killing sperm and any tight sports wear affects the sperm as well but of course we know that I was just happy DH heard it from an expert) but then I told the urologist that we have in fact done all that antioxidants etc and he did 3 months off beer and was taking vitamins etc but his SA was never above 11/12 mil. The urologist then looked through all DH's previous SAs over the last 3.5 years (I put together a table with all the info and attached the results). After that he said that unfortunately he now sees a totally different picture because his SA goes up and down but never reaches normal levels so clearly lifestyle changes are not going to make any difference.

The urologist said that usually there is an underlying reason why this happens. This cannot be caused by an obstruction because obstruction is characterised by low SA volumes, high PH and it never fluctuates it only goes down while DH's SA volumes are always around 2-6, PH is normal and the count fluctuates.

The other major potential problem is genetic. If there is a genetic issue it will affect the sperm cos it will make the dna unstable and the embryo not viable. (btw it's nothing to do with various diseases being passed on genetically). I have not researched this yet but basically there are two options: either you get it on conception or while in your mother's womb but in both scenarios I understand there is nothing that can be done. SA will never improve whatever you do. the fact that I had chemical may also indicate that if the sperm had this chromosomal abnormality it made the embryo unstable so basically there is only way for us is to improve the math i.e. to have stim IVF to get many eggs and observe embryos in the lab for longer to pick the good one for ET. unfortunately I had to tell him that with my FSH this is not an option for us. we could only do natural IVf and he said in our case natural IVF does not increase our odds compared to TTC naturally. So basically this is the end of the road. We may get lucky or we may not.

If Dh's genetic test comes back as normal then he said we could try and increase his numbers by throwing ever known treatment at poor DH. The urologist said there is no point in wasting money on any more tests and it's more practical to just go through and try treatments including antibiotics (there is a possibility of some infections being undetected), tricking DH's body into producing more testosterone etc. To be honest when I went there I was hoping he will suggest just that and I just was not ready for the genetic thing. he said he understands the despair but it is what it is and we need to know it because he sees men getting their women pregnant with DH's low numbers and because it's been 3.5 years and nothing, it makes him feel that there is a reason.

If it comes back as bad news do I leave my DH? I do not think I can I do love him. what the hell do I do, I cant live without children. I feel numb, It's been a tough journey going progressively from bad to worse. Every time I am struck I try to get up and get struck even harder.

Briss, what terrible news. I hope with all my heart that the problem with dh's sperm is not genetic and something can be done so that you can at least have that option.

Are you two open to using donor sperm? That would seem like the perfect option, even if there's nothing genetically wrong with dh. Anyone who cares anything about you could see how badly you want to be a mother, so it would be a perfect way to make that happen. I'm sure your dh wants children too, but it just seems that you want them more. With donor sperm, he doesn't have to make changes to his lifestyle and you get what you need. I just can't see this as being the end of the road for you when you are so close to success.

 

[Briss]

CaliDreaming, thank you! unfortunately donor sperm is not an option for DH. I so hope we have no genetic issues. otherwise it means either we have no children (unless some kind of miracle happens) or we get a divorce and I go single mum/donor sperm route. I am just so upset at the moment...

 

[CaliDreaming]

Oh that is a terrible position to be in.

Hopefully it's not genetic, but even if it is, perhaps your dh's views on it would change in light of the circumstances. I could see how he would feel that way if he thought there was a chance that he could father a child, but if it's shown that he can't, maybe his views would change. For instance, I know for a long time I said I would never consider IVF under any circumstance, but once I was faced with the actual possibility that that was the only option, I became a big fan of it. The only reason we didn't do it was that we didn't have the funds for it.

I know your hubby cares about you and it must kill him to see you suffering. I have a feeling he will come through for you in a big way whether it's having to undergo treatment/make lifestyle changes or having to change his stance on using a donor.

 

[Relaxedlevis]

CaliDreaming, thank you! unfortunately donor sperm is not an option for DH. I so hope we have no genetic issues. otherwise it means either we have no children (unless some kind of miracle happens) or we get a divorce and I go single mum/donor sperm route. I am just so upset at the moment...

Oh wow Briss! I am a guy that has had a lot of troubles with my semen. I have found looking after myself and taking these vitamins daily have really helped me out.

3x 100 MG of Co-Q10
3x 1500 MG of Vitamin C Time extended release
1x Time Release Vitamin B-100 Ultra B-Complex
2x 400 MU of Vitamin E
1x Men Daily multivitamin with 87mg of Selenium
3x 2000MG of Fish Oils (Omega 3)
2x 100MG of Maritime Pine Bark Extract
3x 1000MG L-Carnitine
3x 1000MG of L-Arginine
2x 50MG of Selenium
2x 25MG of Zinc

I take these with 500ML of Water everytime and stay hydrated throughout the day with about 2+ Litres a day. I also work out with about 30 mins of cardio 5 times a week and lift weights 2 times a week. I take protein as well after these work outs.

Let me know if there is anything I can do to help! I've got so much information running around my head I may be able to help

 

[Relaxedlevis]

I forgot to mention:

3x 1000MG of Maca

Folic Acid is also in my vitamins already too so that is something to factor in.

 

[Relaxedlevis]

I also forgot to put in that I take those vitamins spread throughout the day (morning, noon, evening).

I also keep my scrotum and testicles separated from my body by using anatomically correct briefs like these:

Andrew Christian Almost Naked Brief
Obviously Naked Brief

Can't post URL's yet so that isn't going to help

These have helped keep me very cool and I have found help me have larger ejaculations. Plus they look good and my wife likes that

 

[Yammas]

I cant believe Ive only just found this thread, I was starting to think I was the only one with male factor.

My sig says it all really well be 2 years ntnp/ttc in jan and were told about a year ago that wed only be able to conceive via IVF, which confuses me because I thought thay as lobg as OH has swimmers wed have a chance.

Good luck to everyone here its nice to see a guy in the boards.

 

[Relaxedlevis]

I cant believe Ive only just found this thread, I was starting to think I was the only one with male factor.

My sig says it all really well be 2 years ntnp/ttc in jan and were told about a year ago that wed only be able to conceive via IVF, which confuses me because I thought thay as lobg as OH has swimmers wed have a chance.

Good luck to everyone here its nice to see a guy in the boards.

I can completely relate to the 2 years TTC - I always thought it would be easy and just doing the deed would get you a baby. It has not been the case. I was told originally that an IUI might work so they required me to do a swim up test. When they gave me the results - I was very sad. The doctor told me that I have sperm that doesn't seem interested in doing anything - so IVF would be the only option going forward. My wife is NOT interested in any of that. I felt pretty defeated because it was my fault. After feeling sorry for myself for a long time I picked myself up and started doing something about it.

Hopefully I can help with some insight from this end of things.

 

[CaliDreaming]

I cant believe Ive only just found this thread, I was starting to think I was the only one with male factor.

My sig says it all really well be 2 years ntnp/ttc in jan and were told about a year ago that wed only be able to conceive via IVF, which confuses me because I thought thay as lobg as OH has swimmers wed have a chance.

Good luck to everyone here its nice to see a guy in the boards.

It really depends on your dh's numbers whether you have a shot without IVF. It's a little more complicated than just needing one sperm to fertilize the egg.

Sperm are like bullets in a battle. It might only take one bullet to kill the general, but in order to get to the general you have to have a lot of bullets to get through the defenses of the opposing army. So you need to have a certain number of sperm per ejaculation and enough of those sperm need to be able swim fast and relatively straight. A large amount of the sperm is not going to be able to make it through the cervix. Half of what's left is going to go up the wrong tube. A certain percentage are going to be swimming in circles or are just too slow to make it to the egg. So it's no wonder why you really need more than a few.

For most couples, the only problem is getting one sperm to reach the egg, but there also are rare cases where the dna the sperm carries is itself compromised.

 

[Yammas]

@Relaxedlevis Just reread my post its actually 3 years lets hope third times the charm! Im the same I dont want to go through IVF unless I really have to but OH has to get healthy first.

Wow I never thought about it like that CaliDreaming they never explained it to us the FS just looked at his results said hed be a perfect candidate for IVF and come back in 3 years when were eligible for funding. We took the results to our GP and they couldnt explain what the results meant either.

 

[Briss]

Relaxedlevis, thank you very much. My Dh has been on every known vitamin and antioxidant and Chinese herbs etc etc you name it for several years. the reason why genetic testing has been suggested is because none of that made any substantial difference. Having said that vitamins/lifestyle is the first thing to try to improve and if it works you will see the results in a few months. if it does not unfortunately you need to move on and investigate further.

btw, our urologist recommended to limit any exercise to 30 min and not more as it increases body temperature and kills sperm. Also BD every day around O (rather than every other day)! I know this goes against everything I read so far but I totally trust our urologist, he is considered the best in the UK and he said it will improve the quality.

if it's helpful here's my DH's list of supps:

Wellman Conception
Vitamin B complex
1,000 Maca
1,000 Ginseng
200 COQ10
60 Pycnogenol
1,000 Flaxseed oils
1,000 Fish oils
1,000 L-Arginine
1,000 Carnitine
700 Horny Goat weed
500 tribilus
60 Zinc
50 Selenium
800 Calcium
1,000 Vitamin C
1,000 Vitamin B12
800 Vitamin E
4,000 Vitamin D

 

[Relaxedlevis]

Very welcome Briss! Sounds like you have been having a frustrated go of this with your DH. I can relate for sure because - well - guys don't get it (I'm one and I am learning haha). One thing that I found interesting when I saw the FS was how interested they were in my wife and not me. I did only 1 SA and the results weren't great but they didn't care for a long time. Fast forward a bit - I have had blood test return ok and everything else but my sperm count, motility and morph weren't good (9 million, 20%, and 3%). I have gone to 3 urologists since and have been poked, prodded and asked many crazy questions. It can all be a lot intense and for a guy - it seems like a huge embarrassing time and egos can be tested (ejaculating in a hospital bathroom isn't any good time). The big 3 things I was told by all of them were - you have your hair(that is something interesting I guess), I need to ejaculate more often, and how much water am I getting into my system because some may not be enough. I think the gene test is a great idea and I need to look into that!

 

[WhiteOrchid24]

Briss I am so sorry about your news Do you think the 0% morphology could have just been a one-off due to the fact he had been out drinking til 5am?(I know he has low morph but since it was the first time it reached 0% maybe that was why?) I know it's been a lot to take in and seems like the end of the road today but give yourself and your DH some time to process everything before deciding the next best course of action. Obviously the genetics testing will provide more answers so fingers crossed that is ruled out.

Hopefully you and DH can sit down and work through it together.

Hello to relaxedlevis and yamma's! :wave: It's nice to have male input here in such a difficult situation so lovely to hear from you Relaxedlevis. Yammas - what was your DH's actual results? Ie. his count, motility, morphology etc?