Sterilizing Special Needs Children

[BrandiCanucks]

November - I'm pretty stunned about the quote! "pain and inconvenience of menstruation"?! You'd think a man had made he decision. Pain and inconvenience of being a woman perhaps. Blimey.

jasmak. Try not to take it too personally. I do understand how you feel and I think those who haven't expressed disgust have been thinking about very severely disabled people, much more so than with autism. As it's something that has happened/been talked about in society I do think it's a valid debate thread.

I would be really interested to compare responses to the drug addict sterilisation thread...

Try not to take it personally??? HOW can I not take that personally. People are saying to sterilize children with special needs. My child is a designated student, with aids and has Special Needs.

Where do we draw the line here? HOW do people draw the line. This is messy business. How about a child with ADHD? Or how about those with a mental illness, such as depression, or more severe? How about a child who is physically disabled but is mentally "normal"? What about children who have blood disorders, such as hemophilia? Or what about a genetic disposition that they could pass on, such as Cysitic Fibrosis, diabetes etc? Heart conditions??? What about criminals for murder, petty theft? See how this can get out of hand. NO ONE has the right to say WHO has babies, and the person who threw a statement in there about two people who are disabled throwing their child down the stairs and killing their child. Um...that happens to people who are not disabled ALL THE TIME....so give me a break. Yes, I am offended...worse, I felt like vomitting after I read the first post. Now I am angry. This is MY CHILD you are all talking about. She is a good person. I dream of her wedding day and her children...my grandchildren. Maybe she won't be able to get there in life, but I am sure the hell not going to take that away from her...and no one should be trying to even suggest taking that away from her. Don't get offended...I am way beyond offended....I have gone momma bear. Try putting your child into this coversation...and see how you feel. Actually, don't bother...because you can't. You don't know what it's like until you have a child with a dissability, and even then, you can't speak for everyone else.

I haven't even made it to the last page of this thread and honestly, I'm appalled that you are offended. There is no need to be. Not one person here, who has a child with special needs or not has said they would go ahead and force a vasectomy or hysterectomy on their child, special needs or not. What is there to be offended about?

Yes, this topic has been discussed among my support groups, and yes, some people in those support groups have said they would pursue the legal right to sterilize their child, but not one person has said that here.

My daughter has microcephaly. Her brain isn't growing and is equivilant to the average size of a 14 month old child. She'll be 4 in March. I watch her struggle every day to speak, to keep steady, to interact and socialize with kids younger than her and older than her, but that's not the worst part. According to her MRI and chromosome testing, she has the short arm of a chromosome translocated to another chromosome, and her white matter in her brain is disappearing, vanishing into thin air. The scariest part is that we don't know what her condition is. We don't know when she will pass away from it. What we do know is that she will. The white matter controls the signals sent to the rest of her body. Eventually, her body and organs are going to shut down and there is no way to stop it from happening.

So yes, I have put my daughter in this thread, and have made the conscious decision that I WOULD NOT have her sterilized for comfort or to prevent pregnancy, unless it was absolutely medically necessary, such in the way that she also had endometriosis and we could no longer treat it.

While I do not discount the fact that children with autism struggle with daily life (I am studying to work with kids and adults with disabilities and am pursuing a career in ABA therapy), when mentioning 'severely cognitively/physically disabled", I was referring more to those children who chronologically, at 10 years old, are still infants cognitively, or those children who are confined to a wheelchair or are tube fed, or who take medications to control the debilitating symptoms of their condition.

Please verify this next time before assuming we're discussing something disgusting for the sole purpose of ticking off and offending the special needs parents.

 

[BrandiCanucks]

Brandi, im intruiged to know, since you say its been debated many a time amongst support groups that you frequent, what are some of the opinions and reasonings of parents who feel sterilisation is the best option for their children?

Before I answer this, I must address Jasmak's last question. LESS THAN 50 years ago, and I just finished studying this in school, it was common practice to sterilize all children and adults with special needs AND their families. It didn't matter if your grandmother had 6 healthy children before birthing a child with special needs, as soon as that child was born, your grandmother, grandfather, all their children and grandchildren were ALL sterilized as a prevention technique against more special needs births.

And what does sterilizing people of colour have to do with this? We have ALL agreed we would not and are against sterilizing a child with special needs, so why would our opinion be different of sterilizing people of colour?

Polo..thank you for asking. When it comes to issues of pregnancy and vulnerability to abuse, most of the opinions were on the side that their child isn't able to function at a level where he or she could take care of themselves let alone another person. They also stated that they would want to save their children the heartache and confusion of carrying a pregnancy that was "completely preventable". Some stated they already feel overwhelmed with taking care of their child (these children range from newborn to 35 years old, with the oldest cognitive age being around 10), that they would not want the responsibility and stress of raising their child's child, as well as their child. For some conditions, a person with disabilities is an at increased risk of birthing a child with disabilities themselves. They have also stated they could not bear the fact that if their child was molested or raped and became pregnant, they do not agree with abortion, but could never force their child to carry the pregnancy to term.

Some have posed the question: Is it more cruel to force a person with disabilities to undergo sterilization, or to carry a pregnancy of which they cannot cognitively comprehend, nor have the ability or capacity to care for themselves, let alone another human being?

On the issue of puberty and comfort, most who said they would sterilize have stated exactly what was stated in this thread: For comfort. They wouldn't want their child to go through the pain and confusion of menstruation, and have also stated that they do not think their child could comprehend what is happening to her, let alone be able to change her pads and tampons every specific time interval.

 

[BlackBerry25]

In Alberta and British Columbia, it was practiced in recent history.

Brandi, thanks for your thorough replies

 

[BrandiCanucks]

In Alberta and British Columbia, it was practiced in recent history.

Brandi, thanks for your thorough replies

Yup, I believe it was 1971 when they finally stopped, when we were approaching the end of the Asylum Era.

It's no problem. I appreciate everyone's opinions here. I hope everyone understands this thread is not intended to offend, and I'm sorry if you take offense to it. There really is no reason to. Clairification before assumption might help clear up the confusion.

I apologize that it took me so long to respond. I'm in class from 2pm-8pm EST Monday to Thursday and couldn't access the internet today.

 

[PeanutBean]

Thanks Brandi.

Jasmak in Sweden until very recently people were sterilised who were considered to have a disability or be otherwise imperfect, in Germany there was a rather famous eugenics programme. Do you think such things would've stopped without others stopping to consider and discussing the actions? Besides which this thread is pretty different as it's discussing a choice for a single vulnerable individual not some programme. I can't imagine any situation where a parent of a coloured child would wish to sterilise them because of their colour. It's rather an irrational analogy.

 

[Eve]

My son is concidered disabled by the government of Canada/his psychiatrist/family doctor etc... and I am not offended by this topic, I am however disturbed by some of the posts on here. I think when things are taken very personally (been there and the drug addict one might piss me off I tell ya) it's hard to see the other side of things. My son has severe violent outbursts a few times a day to the point he may need to be removed from our home and placed into a child psychiatric hospital at some point in the near future. It has almost happened already! I do not believe if my son continues this path of aggression that he should have children. I wouldn't sterilize by no means as I do not agree with it, but I would stand in a court room and file for custody of the child, and push for only supervised visitation... and some may think that is mean and nasty to do, but like I said if he were to stay the same with his violence and aggression, then I wouldn't trust him at all to care for a child. That is different though.

I do not think sterilizing a child would prevent abuse, just the possible outcome, which can be prevented by other methods, such as contraception. If no other options were available and a pregnancy could seriously harm a child/teen/young adult/adult resulting in serious physical injuries or death, then yes... but I do not think it's possible for that to be the only option as there are so many different types of contraception out there. I hope this makes sense and I hope I didn't offend anyone here.

to JASMAK

 

[smokey]

Brandi, im intruiged to know, since you say its been debated many a time amongst support groups that you frequent, what are some of the opinions and reasonings of parents who feel sterilisation is the best option for their children?

Before I answer this, I must address Jasmak's last question. LESS THAN 50 years ago, and I just finished studying this in school, it was common practice to sterilize all children and adults with special needs AND their families. It didn't matter if your grandmother had 6 healthy children before birthing a child with special needs, as soon as that child was born, your grandmother, grandfather, all their children and grandchildren were ALL sterilized as a prevention technique against more special needs births.

And what does sterilizing people of colour have to do with this? We have ALL agreed we would not and are against sterilizing a child with special needs, so why would our opinion be different of sterilizing people of colour?

Polo..thank you for asking. When it comes to issues of pregnancy and vulnerability to abuse, most of the opinions were on the side that their child isn't able to function at a level where he or she could take care of themselves let alone another person. They also stated that they would want to save their children the heartache and confusion of carrying a pregnancy that was "completely preventable". Some stated they already feel overwhelmed with taking care of their child (these children range from newborn to 35 years old, with the oldest cognitive age being around 10), that they would not want the responsibility and stress of raising their child's child, as well as their child. For some conditions, a person with disabilities is an at increased risk of birthing a child with disabilities themselves. They have also stated they could not bear the fact that if their child was molested or raped and became pregnant, they do not agree with abortion, but could never force their child to carry the pregnancy to term.

Some have posed the question: Is it more cruel to force a person with disabilities to undergo sterilization, or to carry a pregnancy of which they cannot cognitively comprehend, nor have the ability or capacity to care for themselves, let alone another human being?

On the issue of puberty and comfort, most who said they would sterilize have stated exactly what was stated in this thread: For comfort. They wouldn't want their child to go through the pain and confusion of menstruation, and have also stated that they do not think their child could comprehend what is happening to her, let alone be able to change her pads and tampons every specific time interval.

This is what I was getting at in my earlier post, for this sort of reason I can undserstand why in some certain cases it may be seen as for the best of the child involved but obviously im not refering to a overal "right do it to all children with special needs" type law.
I also dont think it should be a case of to prevent pregnancy in general but more of a case of to make the most comfertable life of a child where entering puberty and mentrating could be mentaly damaging (sorry im trying to pick my words carfully but still get across what I mean)
I dont think a across the board type law like that could ever be passed anyway, each case would need to be valuated on a personal level by drs, psychiatrists, the parents and only apply to very severe cases.

 

[BlackBerry25]

As I have posted in the past, I have a paranoid schizophrenic 30 year old brother, who has had a few pregnancy scares (since I had my own daughter) with his long term paranoid schizophrenic girlfriend. They do not have the mind set to realize they cannot raise a child. They both are on very strong drugs which very well could cause birth defects, and I believe it is a very high percentage (80%?) risk of a child of theirs to also have schizophrenia since both parents have it.

What should be done about their case? I don't know. Unfortunately, no one is his medical guardian. He has control over his own penis, but he cannot comprehend not being allowed to raise a child. I know my mom has called social services when the gf was pregnant before (she lost the baby), and they cannot do anything really, until the child is born, and then it would most likely be apprehended. She did have her meds lowered so not as many drugs would be crossing the placenta, but than she was a danger to herself and society (IMO).

Similar to the drug addict thread, when do we think about the rights of the unborn child?

I really have no idea what my position on this is.
I think sterilization is wrong, but like the drug addict thread, this is not a "problem" (sorry I could not think of a better word?) that will be solved. Like a schizophrenic is going have a mental problem for life, unlike an addict being able to turn their life around and get sober.

Thoughts?

 

[BrandiCanucks]

I agree. Like the schizophrenia patient, my daughter's condition can never improve, she can never get better, she can never change her life and suddenly start reproducing her white matter. She will never recover from her condition. Regardless, I still do not believe that taking away her ability to reproduce will solve anything. Sure, she might have a little more comfort where she would have her monthly cycles, and sure, she would never have to deal with the trauma of labour and delivery, but what does taking that away from her teach her? What does it solve? What does it change?

It would change her moods because her hormones would be out of whack. But would it change her condition? Not at all, and it takes away another learning opportunity.

Ultimately, for me, it comes down to this: I wouldn't want anyone to force sterilization on me, so why would I do it to my own child? I'd much rather help her change her pads or teach her how to do it than know I took away a huge part of her.

 

[PeanutBean]

Blackberry it is tricky. Like in the other thread I remain against it but I don't have any answers!

The thing with sterilisation, for a woman in particular, is that it's bigger than removing a risk. Aside from that it would be an invasive surgical procedure against consent, the change in hormone balance comes with its own risks. Not just alteration of mood, which I think could potentially be severe in someone who already has a mental state that is vulnerable, but also for risk of future cancers and other diseases which our natural hormone balance protects against. Every woman going through the menopause faces a big increase in risk of certain illnesses and this would effectively do the same thing.

 

[BlackBerry25]

What about a man though?

Any difference between a man and a woman?

 

[PeanutBean]

How do you mean? With the effects of sterilisation?

 

[NuKe]

Contraception yes but sterilisation, certainly not. xxx

wss. I could never do that to my child. but I can understand where you are coming from.

 

[BlackBerry25]

How do you mean? With the effects of sterilisation?

Yeah, do you think people would be more comfortable with it being done to a man rather than a woman? As it is not so major?

 

[PeanutBean]

In theory maybe, it may also be reversible, but personally I found it equally wrong. It's still invasive and without consent in this context.

 

[cherryglitter]

I never know what to say to these type of threads as I don't know how the person with special needs feels on a day to day basis.

Like PeanutBean said, im against it, but I don't have any answers!!

 

[Eve]

Yeah I think that is a good way to put it... I'm against it, but I don't have any answers.

 

[~RedLily~]

People with special needs are just that...PEOPLE, they deserve the same basic human rights as everyone else.
Having said that I don't have any answers either.

 

[hopeandpray]

If there is somebody that is likely to have sex, but unlikely to ever fully understand the implications, be counted on to take contraception or be able to raise a child then I don't see a huge problem with sterilisation. I know that people are saying that this isn't a decision that anyone should make for anyone else but a parent of a child that will never be capable of properly making decisions of this magnitude will inevitably be making alot of huge decisions on behalf of the child
I don't think that this should ever be brought in on a large scale but on an individual basis I think that it's alright if it's for the benefit of the child

 

[Tegans Mama]

I don't agree with it, can't really go into detail though because I am HUGELY biased and would likely be talking about Tegan and not just people with SN in general.