Suicide - Bravery or Cowardly?

[Ozzieshunni]

Adding onto my post about my godmother's daughter, I saw her while we are visiting in California and you can still see the pain and hurt in her eyes. This time of year is so difficult for those who have lost loved ones.

 

[SKATERBUN]

When I was 11 (I am now almost 32) and my best friend Cameron was 12, he hung himself. I will never forget the day my school principal (Mrs. Stangle ) came into my classroom and took me out of class. I still remember what she was wearing, a crisply ironed shirt dress shirt, a heather grey skirt and her eyes were red but I was unsure if she was mad or had been crying. She held my hand as we walked down the hallway, this made me very uncomfortable. I remember thinking "oh no what did I do wrong?" (I was a brat!).

My mom was there, the school counselor and my mom began talking and telling me about the weird phone call I answered the night before. Rick, Cameron's father called at 9pm (to me then that was late). He sounded so far away, so distant, he asked to talk to my mom and by the time I got her, he hung up. She said Cameron hung himself from the top of the stairs, his dad broke his ribs trying CPR. None of it made sense. He was gone.

I had no idea he was even sad let alone depressed, let alone thinking about killing himself. I knew his family life (with his mom not dad) was very messed up.

Do I think he was selfish? No, I think he was in a sort of pain...I could never understand. He was so desperately hurting he felt this was his only way out.

Sure he deeply hurt and wounded the people he left behind, he was an only child too boot (his poor father was destroyed). His dad was a life long family friend, we lost touch a few years after wards. He couldn't deal with anyone who had been a part of Cam's life. But I still do not find his act selfish.

Was he brave? In some ways, I think yes. In most no. I think yes because he took on so much at such a young age, and he never let on he was suffering. To me it is some what brave to struggle that deeply and not allow it to affect the people closest too you, though in the end yes, he hurt us beyond measure. But he was also hurting beyond measure.

Sure maybe if he had let someone into his emotions, mind and heart...maybe he wouldn't have killed himself. But this was his story and his journey, and I just cannot find him selfish for it. I miss him to this day. And all I really hope is where ever he is, he is finally at peace.

I think suicide is something that not truly understandable until you have been there. I cannot judge what I have not felt or experienced for myself. I have thought about harming myself, but this was not a means to end my life, but a means to end the situation I was in (a very physically abusive relationship). I never acted on those feelings, but I have no doubt if I had not plucked up the courage to finally call the police on my BF when I did, I would likely not be here. Either from his hand or mine.

My biological mother is a self harmer. And has been for many, many, many years. She is also a recovering addict. And oddly enough? I do find her selfish, and her actions. Why? Because a lot of what she does, she does to purposefully hurt others (usually me or my adoptive mom, as she has major guilt/emotional issues over giving me up...I was adopted by my grandparents, thus making my bio mom my legal sister).

I am pretty sure a two years ago she attempted suicide though she denies it. She stabbed sewing scissors into her thigh and neck, sorry but that is a little beyond cutting. She lucked out (though she said she missed on purpose) and didn't hit arteries.

I do think her attempt was selfish and cowardly oddly enough, unlike Cameron's. I would explain why but it would turn into a Jerry Springer like post very quickly!

I know from experience that this is definitely something that can drive you over the edge of despair

 

[Tiff]

My post might be sensitive to some people, so I'm putting it in spoilers.

Spoiler

I wasn't going to read this thread either, tbh. My DF's father took his life back in April and I find I waffle back and forth on how I feel about it all. Some days I am incredibly angry, other days I am very sad (generally on days when its painfully obvious that he isn't there... like at holiday dinners or at my daughter's birthday party on Saturday).

I don't think its brave at all, personally. There is nothing brave and noble about giving up. Brave and noble (to me) would be to fight through your illness. I get what people say and yes I've been depressed myself but to have him just turn our backs on us really freaking hurts. He took his life because my MIL didn't want to be married to him anymore. There were other stuff in his life, yes, and its not my place to air his dirty laundry on a public forum. But her leaving him was the catalyst for sure.

I do agree that there is something wrong in the mind though, for someone to do that. Healthy minds fight to live. You see all the time people going against all odds in disasters and whatnot because they had the will to fight for their life. To want to die goes against all of our basic instincts.

I think that's about all I can say on it without really offending people. I'm very angry with him right now as I mentioned earlier, it was my daughter's birthday on Sunday and he should have been here, dammit. Instead we all go through the motions and try to keep going with life but man... its hard.

 

[aob1013]

Is it selfish? Yes

However people who commit, or attempt suicide have a serious mental issue which means their brain is not working correctly. They cannot rationalise properly, or see a way past problems that might seem minor to others. They are not in any frame of mind to make correct decisions, and unfortunately if they don't get help then it can end in the worst possible way.

Is it cowardly? No, I don't think so. I wouldn't say it was brave either. People who attempt suicide don't think that way. All they want is the pain to stop. There is no ability to think beyond the here and now. The only thoughts are pain is happening now, need to make it go away. Its a slefish thing to do because they can't think beyond themselves, but it isn't intentional.

Depression is a horrible, horrible disease.

This!

 

[moomin_troll]

I haven't read the whole thread so I might be repeating.
From the outside I believe suicide is selfish BUT it depends on the reasons behind it which changed the way I see it.

You get people who've got themselves in debt with loan sharks and it's all down to them but take their lifes, not thinking about ppl they are leaving behind. I no a man who's tried to kill himself many times for no reason and seems to do it when one of his daughters are pregnant! To me that's beyond selfish.

Since my oh passed I've thought a few times why can't I just die, but no I would never kill myself because my children need me.

I also no a woman who's got thru loosing a parent, abuse on many levels and she's still here fighting thru, I admire her

 

[SKATERBUN]

I haven't read the whole thread so I might be repeating.
From the outside I believe suicide is selfish BUT it depends on the reasons behind it which changed the way I see it.

You get people who've got themselves in debt with loan sharks and it's all down to them but take their lifes, not thinking about ppl they are leaving behind. I no a man who's tried to kill himself many times for no reason and seems to do it when one of his daughters are pregnant! To me that's beyond selfish.

Since my oh passed I've thought a few times why can't I just die, but no I would never kill myself because my children need me.

I also no a woman who's got thru loosing a parent, abuse on many levels and she's still here fighting thru, I admire her

same happened to me

 

[moomin_troll]

It's truly awful skater bun.
Obviously it's not my story so I can't go into what this woman went thru, but whenever I think I've got it bad I look to her and think if she got thru this and that ile be fine.

Life is so cruel!

 

[nkbapbt]

I know from experience that this is definitely something that can drive you over the edge of despair

I so wish you didn't know what this felt like. It's not even that I wanted to die, I was 16 and alone. Every inch of my body was bruised or broken, inside and out. I truly felt desperate to escape.

So in some ways I can understand the desperation of people who do commit suicide.

Tiff - I fully get where you are coming from. I think it's extremely normal and rational to be upset, to be totally pissed off at a person who ended their life. It's fully normal to think they just gave up too.

I think it's truly frustrating and makes even harder to understand if you did what I did, and watched/read stories about people who tried to commit suicide (I don't mean people who od'ed or something, I mean people who jumped off bridges that should have killed them, like the Golden Gate bridge in SF and shot themselves) and they all say they were happy it didn't work. They all had second thoughts.

I think in the end the stigma around suicide needs to change, I don't mean it should be come dinner conversation with our kids. But there needs to be a more open means of communication about it. I think too many kids, teenagers and even adults are scared to speak up about it because it's so taboo, so thought of as selfish and cowardly. That too many people opt to do it, instead of confessing they feel this way.

I am just not sure how one opens the lines of communication about this topic.

 

[Tiff]

There are NO lines of open communication about it here.

So much in fact that my SIL and I actually formed a Suicide Support Group for our area as there was nothing here. Can you imagine? Not to mention when I called trying to find support after it happened no one knew what to do with me because I was "essentially a daughter in law". The counsellors I spoke with were more concerned about my SIL and my MIL than me, who actually called them.

I'm still pretty bitter about that.

 

[SKATERBUN]

nkbapbt, so sorry you experienced it so young

I never thought I could be broken mentally as well as physically, when another person has such control and force over another, and can effectively sap the life out of them, then at lowest times you believe that you are better off dead It will never happen again

 

[nkbapbt]

Tiff - That is truly disgusting. I don't understand how anyone can say who should be grieving more or given more support. If you were calling, you clearly needed support. That is so f-ed up!

As much as I know I might get frowned on for doing so, I plan to talk to my kids about suicide. I plan to approach it in a way that they feel safe admitting they have those feelings or thoughts, and they will never be judged for them. I hope they never will, but I would rather know I approached the subject with an open mind, than find out after wards they had those feelings. I will not be a victim of silence.

Skaterbun - I don't think anyone ever believes or even wants to think they could be controlled or broken. I especially didn't as I was told my WHOLE life about how abusive my real father was to my real mom and myself before I was adopted. I was told about his abuse, but my adoptive mom failed (as did my school..) to educate me on the signs or circle of violence. I look back now and know if I had been taught about it, it would not have happened. It's such a clear pattern it makes me sick to my stomach, as I can pin point the exact steps in the circle which took place in that relationship.

Don't get me wrong I am not trying lay blame, but it did spur me into going to talk to highschool kids about it.

My adoptive mom was so mad at me for staying, and yet she didn't get she made herself completely unapproachable to me because she basically blames women for staying. By saying the typical "how could anyone let that happen", I know she doesn't "get it" and she's old school being 78 years old. But still.

I will never make my kids feel like that. Ever.

Big ladies.

 

[SKATERBUN]

^ the other thing I forgot to say was that whe you are abused and have no one you can tell or go to to escape, suicide is not only a place to end all the pain and suffering, but in a way, the victims way of claiming back the 'control' over their own life.

Anyway the way I see it now, is whatever/whoever is driving someone to suicide is in fact the enemy who will win if the person takes their own life.
The victim has to believe in hope in order to change their mind.
Such a complex situation.

 

[Tiff]

Well for starters we (and I mean "we" as a collective whole... not just people commenting on this thread) can work towards making Suicide a less taboo subject. I honestly believe that because there is a such a stigma along with even the word suicide that many people who are having those dark thoughts don't want to come forward and get help.

I know with my FIL therapy was for "sissies" and a real man just shrugged off his problems and moved on. But where did that mentality get him? We're now preparing for our first christmas without him here! I'd rather him be a "sissy" initially and get HELP as opposed to sucking it up until he felt so overwhelmed he took his life.


Just my opinion.

 

[Tasha]

I only just found this thread, and have been unable to read it all, as it brought back painful memories, that are still quite raw. Sorry.

I use to think selfish, but then my husband tried to commit suicide. I found him with a belt around his neck and if I had been any longer, well the outcome would of been death. As I took that belt from around his neck, and he came round, I looked into his eyes and they were not the eyes of the man I knew. As he realised what had happened (me stopping it), those eyes began to fill with both anger and desperation, he was angry that I had stopped him and desperate to not be here. That look of desperation will never leave me.

He had been begging since our little girl had died, no one wanted to help, he went to the doctors numerous times, help just never came. Even after he tried to commit suicide the help wasnt there, with him being seen for just over an hour in total over the first ten days. He tried a further two times in the next two weeks, each time was really traumatic, and again the support wasnt there.

CALM says that suicide is the biggest killer of young men in the UK(under the age of 35), I had no idea this was the case until I was desperately searching for help.

 

[Laura2919]

I think its hard to understand if you havent been there with yourself or a loved one so my opinion on this is that its cowardly and selfish. I dont want to offend anyone but to me thats what it is. I love my family and I couldnt imagine leaving them behind. But everyone has a difference of opinion and this is mine. Everyone is also entitled to their opinion so people who get angered by what people say should understand that. Not everyone will see eye to eye on this situation. It is a selfish thing to do but like I said I dont know what peoples mental state is like and this could have a huge affect on someone. I think its sad that so many people have tried to end their lives because the feel like they have no way out. I wouldnt want that to be the case but it is.

 

[Tiff]

Laura. I find it cowardly and selfish (my FIL took his life) too. You are right, it depends on the people involved and their situations.

 

[binxyboo]

I lost my brother to suicide in february 2006.
I think about him every day.
It is neither cowardly or brave. I do sometimes feel that he was so terribly selfish to do something like that, and then I think that he must have been so terribly lonely and down to even contemplate doing it. Maybe I was the selfish one to not notice that he needed me.

 

[Hayley90]

Personally, I dont think suicide is brave or cowardly... It's just an end. It is choosing your own death, making the end how you want it to be.

I dont agree with it though. I believe greatly in life, in LIVING it, making it worthwhile.. making a difference. Everyone has a purpose here, and I would hate to see life wasted in such a way.

I know my mum tried to commit suicide when she was trapped in a terrifying abusive relationship with my dad. She took an entire pack of paracetamol, a whole pack of co-codamol and a bottle of wine. She felt sick, and just laid on her bed waiting. My dad laid next to her knowing full well what she had done... he didnt do anything. She eventually was sick and she is fine.

I find it incredibly upsetting to see on the news young teenagers who have killed themselves, in pacts or because of internet abuse etc... its such a waste, and so unnecessary. There is definately a lack of awareness in this country, and hardly any accessible channels for people to get help.

I plan to teach Harrison about it, and be as open with him about everything as i possibly can. The more open we are as a parents, we hope the more comfortable he will be to talk to us about anything, at any time.

xxx

 

[Kerry.]

I think it depends on the circumstances. If you're leaving behind a family, who will suffer after you're gone, then it could be deemed as selfish. However, when you are that depressed, that you don't see any other way out, then it's neither brave nor cowardly, it just is. I have attempted it myself, and have lost a friend to suicide and it's heart-breaking to think of how deeply and irrevocably sad someone must be to take their own life.

 

[Drazic<3]

I think it's cowardly and selfish, but sometimes being selfish is all we have left. It's an issue which has cut my family to the very core, and I could write essay-loads on my feelings, which would probably contradict themselves a thousand times over anyway.

All I can say is Melody will be taught about suicide and how to reach out and help herself and others. Talking about suicide and mental health will remove the stigma and save lives.