Suicide - Bravery or Cowardly?

I don't think it's either brave or cowardly to be honest - I feel it's just incredibly, very, very sad that someone feels that the only way they can get past the utter desperation they feel is to end their life. If you think, as a rational person how scary it seems to commit suicide, just think how far past depression someone must be to actually do it :cry:
 
I don't think it's brave or cowardly either, my Dad comitted suicide 16 years ago and for him it was just that he didn't see his life ever getting any better and he couldn't cope anymore.
 
What really really upsets me is when a rich business man who has lost his business due to financial problems, murders his entire family (wife and 2 kids) and their dogs and horses and then torches the entire property which was a huge mansion, and then shoots himself in the head. This is what happened recently and I have no comprehension of why?? Its not the first time I have heard this happen either.. when money is a reason to comit suicide :wacko:
If he was truly at his wits end with failure, I really dont get why he was so selfish to take everyone with him. What seemed like a sane comprehendable successful guy one minute can commit murder on the people he loves :(
 
See here is where some of the trouble lies with me...

When I had this discussion years ago with someone I no longer speak to now, they said even if someone has depression it doesnt give them the right to take a life - even if that life is their own - he said for that reason it is selfish, always selfish and what would make that any different from someone taking someone elses life out of desparation or having depression? I have depression, its an awful illness to have but I got where he was coming from. I cant quite put into words what im trying to say :wacko:

Skaterbun, in the case you mentioned, that man also must have had mental health issues and serious ones at that. It doesn't excuse his behaviour, nothing would, but kinda just demonstrates that anything is possible with an altered mental state. I feel so sorry for his family to have their lives taken too though.
 
^ it really does, and just goes to show just how complex the subject is, how we just dont understand how the human brain works. Mental illness is not visable like a physical condition, it is easily judged by outsiders even those who have suffered themselves.
 
I remember seeing that on the news Skaterbun :( truely tragic.
 
I don't think its always depression either though. My Uncle was the most laid back, happy go lucky bloke I knew. I know people can hide depression but I honestly don't believe he was. Maybe he just had nothing to live for?

I still think it's selfish though. Selfish = Concerned chiefly or only with oneself and in most cases that is what they are doing, thinking of themselves and not the consequences. A local man here killed himself on a railway line last night. The train driver is going to have to live with those images for the rest of his life now.

I do understand that many people, in that state of mine, probably don't think of these things and can only think of pulling the plug on life, so to speak...but then, that IS selfishness itself.
 
The thing is, depression is by its very nature a selfish disease where the person concerned cannot get beyond their own situation. That's not a criticism, it's just one of the symptoms of the illness.

I don't believe that terms like selfish, cowardly or brave can be applied to depression, every case is just so different. For alot, it's pure desperation. My DH is severely depressed and has been for a couple of years. We had a time when I had him on suicide watch and thankfully we seem to have come out the other end of it now. He says that he doesn't want to die but he wants to go to sleep and never wake up - I don't understand the distinction but then again, I'm not suffering from his mental illness. He is suffering from another mental illness at the same time and it is frustrating to see the lack of understanding of mental illness from so many :nope:
 
The thing is, depression is by its very nature a selfish disease where the person concerned cannot get beyond their own situation. That's not a criticism, it's just one of the symptoms of the illness.

I don't believe that terms like selfish, cowardly or brave can be applied to depression, every case is just so different. For alot, it's pure desperation. My DH is severely depressed and has been for a couple of years. We had a time when I had him on suicide watch and thankfully we seem to have come out the other end of it now. He says that he doesn't want to die but he wants to go to sleep and never wake up - I don't understand the distinction but then again, I'm not suffering from his mental illness. He is suffering from another mental illness at the same time and it is frustrating to see the lack of understanding of mental illness from so many :nope:

I sort of get what your husband is saying...at times, Ive been so down. I didn't want to die (well, some of the time I did), but living was just so difficult. It was my only option though, I had my other kids to think of. Life can be so God damn hard that sometimes, its hard not to think 'whats the point?' xxxxxx
 
I remember seeing that on the news Skaterbun :( truely tragic.

Yes to take someone with you who is unaware is uncomprehendable to me, with this example its like failing financially was like he was failing his family, and if he just took his own life then how would they cope without him.

And what about when couples commit suicide together is that selfish?
You hear about older couples where one doesnt want to leave the other behind so they make a pact. I feel very sorry for people who feel they need to leave the world behind, :cry:
 
I kind of have 2 very different opinions tbh

Firstly Ive suffered with self harm and depressin since I was about 14 on and off. Ive had times when Ive felt so low its the only way I could see a way out. That clouds your judgement, and you think people will be ok with it because they'll see you're not suffering any more. At least thats how I felt.

But, my friends brother comitted suicide last year and it has taken me a LONG time to understand why. He has a wonderful sister, gorgeous nephew, loads of friends that love him, his sister was about to get married and it was coming up to christmas. How could he have let her go through all of that without him by her side. How do you explain to child where their uncle has gone and why.

So I dont know really. I can understand why someone might feel its the only way out. But.... I dont know :/ Its really difficult.

xx
 
I think euthanasia and suicide in the face of terminal and debilitating illness is hugely brave, both for the person dying and their loved ones.

I can't think of many things braver than that to be honest.
 
Cowardly and selfish.

When i hear about people who have killed themselves or that self harm, it makes me angry. I feel sympathy as well, because i used to self harm and have suicidal thoughts when i was younger. But a 'friend' of mine who has children who would often think about killing herself and i can't help but think, you have two little girls who need you!! I know you have problems and worrys and doubts, and i know it's hard for you right now, but you two little lives that depend on you and you're willing to possibly fuck up their lives just to escape the pain of yours? It's selfish and i can help but lose respect for people like it.
 
My uncle committed suicide. In no way do i hate him for it and in no way do i think he is a coward or selfish. No matter how upsetting it is and how much he has hurt his family it was his decision. It kills me to think it has happened and sometimes i cant believe its true.
He was such a lovely man and he is missed dearly.
Yes sometimes i get angry and think why did he do it, but something must of been going wrong in his life and he fel he couldnt cope. I can never hate some1 i love so much
 
My cousin commited suicide just 16 years of age, Her friend found her hanging in her bedroom. There was nothing they could do it was too late. I believe she was pushed to it and if the SYSTEM would ahve helped her and not ignored her cries for help she would still be hear with us. I think in a way its selfish but sometimes when you think there is no other way out what are you suppose to do, she tried asking for help and also self harmed but no one helped her
 
My dad committed suicide. I haven't read this thread as I don't want to get upset reading people's views. However, I did want to give my view.

I don't think it is brave or cowardly. I think it's extremely sad that someone gets so depressed that they no longer feel they can be alive, that it's less pain for them to be dead than to live with the pain they are going through.
My dad was depressed, a mental illness and I believe that him killing himself was the result of this mental illness and lack of help.
It is very hard to live with the knowledge my dad killed himself and I really wish he was here- especially now I have my son, but I don't blame him, hate him or anything like that. I just think it's extremely sad, for him, for me and my family and for my son, who won't get to meet his wonderful loving grandad.
I think to say it's brave or cowardly is naive and doesn't show an understanding of mental illness.
 
My dad committed suicide. I haven't read this thread as I don't want to get upset reading people's views. However, I did want to give my view.

I don't think it is brave or cowardly. I think it's extremely sad that someone gets so depressed that they no longer feel they can be alive, that it's less pain for them to be dead than to live with the pain they are going through.
My dad was depressed, a mental illness and I believe that him killing himself was the result of this mental illness and lack of help.
It is very hard to live with the knowledge my dad killed himself and I really wish he was here- especially now I have my son, but I don't blame him, hate him or anything like that. I just think it's extremely sad, for him, for me and my family and for my son, who won't get to meet his wonderful loving grandad.
I think to say it's brave or cowardly is naive and doesn't show an understanding of mental illness.

:hugs: Absolutely agree with you and so do alot of others on this thread :hugs:
 
My husband was found hanging and just in the nick of time.....before we met. He is having counselling to this day for things that happened in his childhood. It haunts him...he suffers with depression, we cant comment or criticise until we ourselves have been in this position, people who get this desperate are not thinking rationally, they are not thinking about family , they just want the hurt and pain to go so badly :cry:
 
Its not just people who want to end their own suffering that commit suicide. Some people do it as they feel that there loved ones may be better off in some way without them or others may feel they are that insignificant that noone will miss them anyway.

Does the reasoning behind it make it any less sad though, or devastating for the ones left behind? Imo no. Its still the tragic loss of life whatever that person's reason for ending it :flow:
 
When I was 11 (I am now almost 32) and my best friend Cameron was 12, he hung himself. I will never forget the day my school principal (Mrs. Stangle ) came into my classroom and took me out of class. I still remember what she was wearing, a crisply ironed shirt dress shirt, a heather grey skirt and her eyes were red but I was unsure if she was mad or had been crying. She held my hand as we walked down the hallway, this made me very uncomfortable. I remember thinking "oh no what did I do wrong?" (I was a brat!).

My mom was there, the school counselor and my mom began talking and telling me about the weird phone call I answered the night before. Rick, Cameron's father called at 9pm (to me then that was late). He sounded so far away, so distant, he asked to talk to my mom and by the time I got her, he hung up. She said Cameron hung himself from the top of the stairs, his dad broke his ribs trying CPR. None of it made sense. He was gone.

I had no idea he was even sad let alone depressed, let alone thinking about killing himself. I knew his family life (with his mom not dad) was very messed up.

Do I think he was selfish? No, I think he was in a sort of pain...I could never understand. He was so desperately hurting he felt this was his only way out.

Sure he deeply hurt and wounded the people he left behind, he was an only child too boot (his poor father was destroyed). His dad was a life long family friend, we lost touch a few years after wards. He couldn't deal with anyone who had been a part of Cam's life. But I still do not find his act selfish.

Was he brave? In some ways, I think yes. In most no. I think yes because he took on so much at such a young age, and he never let on he was suffering. To me it is some what brave to struggle that deeply and not allow it to affect the people closest too you, though in the end yes, he hurt us beyond measure. But he was also hurting beyond measure.

Sure maybe if he had let someone into his emotions, mind and heart...maybe he wouldn't have killed himself. But this was his story and his journey, and I just cannot find him selfish for it. I miss him to this day. And all I really hope is where ever he is, he is finally at peace.

I think suicide is something that not truly understandable until you have been there. I cannot judge what I have not felt or experienced for myself. I have thought about harming myself, but this was not a means to end my life, but a means to end the situation I was in (a very physically abusive relationship). I never acted on those feelings, but I have no doubt if I had not plucked up the courage to finally call the police on my BF when I did, I would likely not be here. Either from his hand or mine.

My biological mother is a self harmer. And has been for many, many, many years. She is also a recovering addict. And oddly enough? I do find her selfish, and her actions. Why? Because a lot of what she does, she does to purposefully hurt others (usually me or my adoptive mom, as she has major guilt/emotional issues over giving me up...I was adopted by my grandparents, thus making my bio mom my legal sister).

I am pretty sure a two years ago she attempted suicide though she denies it. She stabbed sewing scissors into her thigh and neck, sorry but that is a little beyond cutting. She lucked out (though she said she missed on purpose) and didn't hit arteries.

I do think her attempt was selfish and cowardly oddly enough, unlike Cameron's. I would explain why but it would turn into a Jerry Springer like post very quickly!
 

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