Suicide - Bravery or Cowardly?

[beccad]

I don't think it's either brave or cowardly. It's desperation...

 

[gemabee]

To me suicide is selfish.I don't think that people that attempt or commit suicide are bad people but when they do it they are doing something that they consider 'good' for themselves while hurting everybody else. The people doing it may think people are better off without them but it is almost never true. I know that there are alot of people that cannot help being depressed. Trust me, I have depression as a result of my genetics, I had it as a child even so I do understand how awful the disease is. I had huge periods of times where I didn't want to live, as disgusting as this sound I used to hope that I'd get cancer because then that would let me die and my family wouldn't feel as bad about it as if it was suicide. When I was depressed I didn't value my life very highly, I valued the people I loved more than I valued myself and I knew if i commited suicide that I would ruin their lives, so I didn't.
Permanant solution to a temporary solution fits a lot of situations, a 14 year old girl from my brother and sisters school killed herself because her boyfriend dumped her. What a huge waste of a life. I think that it is a very tiny fraction of cases of depression that cannot be helped in any way and I really hope that medicine will advance so that these people can be helped too. My depression would have been considered 'biological' but that does not in any way mean that it could not be helped

This is very untrue. Look up real biological depression. It is engrained in your brain chemistry and CANNOT be changed. I have to say I'm very angered by this.

i agree... that comment was made fully knowin that it would be hurtful... not very nice at all

 

[aliss]

There's no bravery or cowardice. Believe me, as someone who has shared "last words" with many (now dead) suicidal people, there's no thought to it except "it has to be". It is what it is. There is no choice, no option, no other thought. Those who are 100% determined to commit the act have a different tone of voice and a very strange sense about themselves, impossible for me to describe. I always get chills with those people because in the first few seconds, I usually know they're going to do it.

 

[strawberry19]

people have a lot of mixed views on this issue i get angry when i hear people saying there going to kill themselves over silly things like their boyfriends leaving them etc but having said that a dear friend of my mums commited suicide last year it was very well planned! she was extremely depressed had been for 15 years she had already tried once but was found and helped and this made her worse she wanted to die each die she was suffereing so much in the end she ended up in a unit and carefully planned her suicide she managed to figure out what time the staff handover was and which day was best to take advantage of this and done it she ended it. needless to say no one was actually mad at her not even her own son because everyone knew how much she was suffering for me and alot of people we knew she was finally at peace .. yes it may have been some what selfish leaving her son behind etc but if you know the person well enough you know why they do it i spoke to her the night before and i just knew that it was going to be soon .. i still miss her an aweful lot but i know she is a peace no longer suffering and neither are her family

 

[Blue_bumpkin]

Some forms of biological depression can be treated, or helped to an extent, but it depends on what part of the brain is effected etc. Its not as clean cut as everyone with depression can be treated or vice versa that biological depression cannot be treated - it depends on the individual case. So as ozzieshunni said, her god sister had tried various treatments to no effect, but what hopeandpray said was hers could be treated - different situations.

Its different for each individual. Its one of the worst forms of depression anyone can have and my heart goes out to those who are struggling with it x

 

[hopeandpray]

Can I say that it was not made intending to be hurtful, I suppose what sounded like I was trying to was by saying 'in any way'. The back sotry is that I had been depressed for so long that it was just the way the world was to me. I thought it would be like that forever. I thought I had no hope but that was not true. I would hate for anyone to think that there is no hope for them. What I was trying to stress was that people should not think that because they have a biological depression that it cannot be helped. Yes it cannot be cured as such but it usually it can be managed

As I stated there are some cases that cannot be helped but having depression linked to brain chemistry doesn't mean that it can't be treated. What anti-depressants do is try to re-balance the brain chemistry. There just isn't one type of depression that doctors diagnose and from that point on there's nothing that can be done. Refractory depression is considered the most serious and is often classed incorretly as 'untreatable' depression but really it is catagorised as being not effected by at least 2 different medications. ECT and other types of drugs can be effective in some cases with people with this kind of depression and I didn't want anybody to see this thread after being told that they have a biological form of depression and think that there can be no hope for them.
It does sound like that in you friends godchild's case there was nothing that could be done and I am very sorry for her loss

I'm really sorry for upsetting anyone I didn't want people to think that if you have type 'x' that there was no hope, that is really all I meant and I wasn't trying to have a go at anyone. Going through what I did was bad enough,people that live with it for a long time are very brave and strong

 

[massacubano]

Is it selfish? Yes

However people who commit, or attempt suicide have a serious mental issue which means their brain is not working correctly. They cannot rationalise properly, or see a way past problems that might seem minor to others. They are not in any frame of mind to make correct decisions, and unfortunately if they don't get help then it can end in the worst possible way.

Is it cowardly? No, I don't think so. I wouldn't say it was brave either. People who attempt suicide don't think that way. All they want is the pain to stop. There is no ability to think beyond the here and now. The only thoughts are pain is happening now, need to make it go away. Its a slefish thing to do because they can't think beyond themselves, but it isn't intentional.

Depression is a horrible, horrible disease.

I love you Nic! this is it exactly.... exactly....

 

[Eve]

I think to take your own life for the most part, you need to have serious depression or other mental illness going on, as people in their right mind, wouldn't want to take their own life (unless to spare another etc... ) so brave? Not usually, maybe in movies, selfish? Sure, some people are... sad, yes.

 

[Laura2919]

I think its cowardly but thats because no matter how hard my life has been I wouldnt be able to do it.
I couldnt imagine ending my hurt and sorrow to cause my family that pain.

 

[Blue_bumpkin]

I think its cowardly but thats because no matter how hard my life has been I wouldnt be able to do it.
I couldnt imagine ending my hurt and sorrow to cause my family that pain.

But some people do it in the frame of mind that they will be relieving their family of a 'burden' or that their family will be better off, its not just necessarily to end their suffering.

Depression massively alters how you think.

 

[strawberry19]

I think its cowardly but thats because no matter how hard my life has been I wouldnt be able to do it.
I couldnt imagine ending my hurt and sorrow to cause my family that pain.

But some people do it in the frame of mind that they will be relieving their family of a 'burden' or that their family will be better off, its not just necessarily to end their suffering.

Depression massively alters how you think.

i agree with this i know my friend who commited suicide wanted to relieve her family of always being a burden but her situation was different she was serverly depressed and not in the right frame of mind very well planned suicide, she is at peace and i do believe finally able to be happy now and her family are able to move on and lead a normalish life

 

[Floralaura]

I do think there are different answers to this question dependant on what is happening at the time of a 'suicide'..I have the following experience of it.
Aged 14 a friend was bullied on the bus home from school one day, people said he had stolen £1. He went home, stood on a chair in the garage with a rope around his neck and waited for his Mum to come home to find him like that. Only the chair was rotten and before she got home a leg snapped on the chair. His Mum arrived home to find him dead. She coudn't even cut him down as she was pregnant and couldnt life him and had to get a neighbour to come get him down. Liam was 14. He wasnt brave, a coward, depressed, selfish. He was a Child that wanted attention (Thou at the time I blamed him) and got it the wrong way. He didn't mean to die but he killed himself by accident.
Thats stupid suicide.
4 years ago my Friend (Who incidentally after Liam killed himself swore it was something she would never do!) Took a overdose of pills. At the time she was 23, had 'life' worries and nothing bad. She took the pills and immediately rang a Married Man who she 'loved'. He then ran to her rescue, took her to A&E and rang her family. People we so worried about her, even after it emerged she would be ok there was the whole 'will she do it again?' thing. She also had no intention of killing herself..but thought that she would allow others to think that she had in order for her to gain sympathy and love from people..especially the Man who she rang.
Thats stupid suicide
A family friend was terminally ill, no hope of a cure..only a long drawn out death with his loved ones having to sit by and watch. So he ended it whilst he could. To spare his loved ones having to watch him fade slowly and painfully he went peacefully.
Thats desperation suicide.
After my Dads death I became scared of dying..became worried that I would not wake up, that it was my last day, that I was dying of < insert one of hundreds of illnesses that i 'had'> I got so messed up that I cam to a conclusion, which at the time seemed right to me..You are scared of spiders, so you hold a spider. You are scared of flying, so you go in a plane. You are scared of dogs, you go stroke a dog. You are scared of dying, so you go kill yourself. It was logical to me at the time, if you are scared of something then you go confront it head on, so scared of death then go ahead and die and you wont be scared anymore and will have won. I never did it (obviously ha) and never tried to but I can see how easy it would have been for me to do it and for me to have considered it normal to do.
Thats depression suicide.
You cant just label all suicides as X..theres so many reasons why people would do it, some are selfish, some are brave, some are stupid, some are desperate, some are ill, some are cowardly, some cant live with something they have done, some cant live with the death of a Child, some dont want to spent the next xx years in prison, some want to spare their family the horror of watching them die from a terminal illness and so on..you cant label them all as one thing, thats impossible. What you can say is every one is in its own way to people that loved that person a tragedy.

 

[LoraLoo]

My Uncle and little Brother in Law have both killed themselves. My brother in Law, just 3 months ago. He was 25 years old, and has left behind my 2 year old little Nephew . I can't believe he has done this to us all, especially his baby boy. I think its very selfish. I also think you have to be brave to actually go though with it- I know I couldn't. I've thought about it...when my baby girl died. But I couldn't ever put my family through that. Besides...I'd be too scared. I guess they just get to a point when they see no other way out, its really sad....for them, they will be at peace, but its the family that is left to pick up the pieces.

 

[dani_tinks]

Having tried to kill myself on two occasions, I think I can safely answer this easily. It is cowardly and selfish. I was so mean to put my family through that, and what if I succeeded? I'd never go there again and I can safely hold my hand up and say I was selfish. It would of stopped my pain but created heaps more for the people I love. It's not fair.

 

[LoraLoo]

I had a big disagreement with my friends about a similar subject not that long ago. I was speaking about those who have to deal with the loss of a child (which I just have no idea how you can deal with) and I was quite open with my view that I couldn't live in a world without my baby girl.

Now, I don't expect people to agree with me, in fact, a lot disagree, but God forbid if I ever lost Holly, I would be with her soon after. I know for a fact that I couldn't physically or mentally cope without her. Speaking to my dad about this, he oddly enough said he and my mum made a similar 'decision' when I was a child that if they lost me, they would not be able to live without me.

Before Holly, there was nothing in the world that would ever drive me to feel this way, but since having her, and living my life with her in it (which is the most precious and amazing thing I have ever experienced), I know I couldn't carry on without her.

I totally admire the strength of women (and men) who cope with the loss of a child. But I know I wouldn't be able to.

I always said, if Eve had been my first baby, I would have done it...but I couldn't, I had 2 other baby's that needed me. Its like the couple who killed themselves together, they jumped from the cliffs with their little boy in a suitcase...he had died a couple of days before and they just could't live without him. I totally get that, was so sad though xx

 

[PeanutBean]

I've got to say not one anecdote on this thread has altered my opinion about suicide being neither brave nor selfish but desperation (whatever the cause of that desperation).

The reality is that people and their lives and their minds are complex and we can none of us see into their head's and hearts and fully understand what is going on in their perception of their life. Labelling is pointless and only confirm that suicidal people are not understood by others. The fact of the matter is we should all be openminded about things happening to others whether is suicide or a dodgy boyfriend. We're not them, we don't know how it is to be them just as no-one knows how it is to be us. I just don't understand why people are so judgemental.

 

[aliss]

I've got to say not one anecdote on this thread has altered my opinion about suicide being neither brave nor selfish but desperation (whatever the cause of that desperation).

The reality is that people and their lives and their minds are complex and we can none of us see into their head's and hearts and fully understand what is going on in their perception of their life. Labelling is pointless and only confirm that suicidal people are not understood by others. The fact of the matter is we should all be openminded about things happening to others whether is suicide or a dodgy boyfriend. We're not them, we don't know how it is to be them just as no-one knows how it is to be us. I just don't understand why people are so judgemental.

My friend's brother hung himself when he was 12, because his internet girlfriend broke up with him. He was bullied and she was his only friend. At 12, I don't think anyone can say selfish or brave. I think it shows how some young people, predisposed to depression, can really see nothing in their world for them. There's nothing to it but it being truly sad.

LoraLoo, my heart breaks for you. You are a very strong mother. Nobody should go through what you and your family have.

 

[LoraLoo]

I've got to say not one anecdote on this thread has altered my opinion about suicide being neither brave nor selfish but desperation (whatever the cause of that desperation).

The reality is that people and their lives and their minds are complex and we can none of us see into their head's and hearts and fully understand what is going on in their perception of their life. Labelling is pointless and only confirm that suicidal people are not understood by others. The fact of the matter is we should all be openminded about things happening to others whether is suicide or a dodgy boyfriend. We're not them, we don't know how it is to be them just as no-one knows how it is to be us. I just don't understand why people are so judgemental.

I totally get what you are saying. Thats the hard part with suicide, nobody know what is going through their heads at the time, even if they leave a latter. Only THEY know. I do agree with what others have said, every situation is different. In the case of my Brother in law, he was selfish. His little boy now has to grow up knowing his Dad killed himself. Yes he was depressed but he also stopped taking his medication and started, well, lets say, self medicating.
On the other hand, one of the parents at school, her little 10 year old killed himself a few weeks back ...could I call a 10 year old selish? No. Desperate? Yes.
I think thats the one common factor...desperation.
If there wasn't such a stigma attached to depression and mental illness I'm sure there would be alot less suicides
xxxxx

 

[LoraLoo]

I've got to say not one anecdote on this thread has altered my opinion about suicide being neither brave nor selfish but desperation (whatever the cause of that desperation).

The reality is that people and their lives and their minds are complex and we can none of us see into their head's and hearts and fully understand what is going on in their perception of their life. Labelling is pointless and only confirm that suicidal people are not understood by others. The fact of the matter is we should all be openminded about things happening to others whether is suicide or a dodgy boyfriend. We're not them, we don't know how it is to be them just as no-one knows how it is to be us. I just don't understand why people are so judgemental.

My friend's brother hung himself when he was 12, because his internet girlfriend broke up with him. He was bullied and she was his only friend. At 12, I don't think anyone can say selfish or brave. I think it shows how some young people, predisposed to depression, can really see nothing in their world for them. There's nothing to it but it being truly sad.

LoraLoo, my heart breaks for you. You are a very strong mother. Nobody should go through what you and your family have.

Have just posted very similar about a 10 year old. Its just awful. I wouldn't even have known what suicide was at that age
And thank you, been the worst 3 years of our lives with Eve and Matthew and God knows what else, but heres to 2011 xxxxx

 

[Tegans Mama]

I don't think you can label suicide as anything, not even desperation in some cases. When I was 14, my best friend killed himself. I was the person who found him - he'd been there 4 hours and his parents thought he was still asleep. It was the most horrific moment of my life and I will never, ever forget it. He's been dead 8 years on Saturday. I don't think he was selfish, brave, or cowardly. In his case, he probably WAS desperate, but I still don't think he should have done it. I am still angry at him now for what he did. He was like a brother to me. He should have been here to meet my daughter.

I have tried to kill myself 3 times - and I don't think I was desperate. I think I just felt like I'd reached the end - I didn't need help, I didn't need love or attention or anything, I just needed to go to sleep and never wake up. I was a huge burden on my family at the time, suffering from an eating disorder that was killing me anyway. I just felt if I killed myself, no one would have to worry anymore.