Swine Flu Vaccine - Pandemrix or Celvapan Jab - yes or no?

[EmmaDueInFeb]

Mmmm - some interesting points. Just a few more points to add to the mix:

- relenza (though licensed for pregnant women) has not been tested on pregnant women....so if you get SF (suspected) you will be under pressure to make a decision as to whether or not to take relenza, even though it falls into the same category of hypothetical risk as the SF jab

- the pandemic is not escalating as fast as was originally feared but the proportional numbers of people needing hospital treatment is causing alarm (i.e. the cases we do have are more serious than anticipated)

- while pregnant women are not dying in mass numbers, a fairly high number of women (60 at any one time, according to current figures) are in hospital requiring treatment

- while seasonal flu (currently) kills more people, the demographic of who it kills is vastly different to the demographic that SF is targeting (i.e. children under the age of 5 and pregnant women.....both seasonal flu and swine flu impact people with suppressed immune systems)

- the government is not rolling out the swine flu vaccine to under 5's

Now, we can all do the maths - the chances of us dying or ending up in hospital are still pretty low, so we could probably take the chance and be fine. However, with the way things stand, and the fact that people are not dropping like flies, do you really think that the government and the drug companies are going to risk a HUGE scandal of pushing an unsafe drug to pregnant women and small children....? If it turns out the drug is not safe, just take a minute to think of the impact this would have on the entire world.....some of our politician are a it annoying and drug companies like to make money, but I just don't believe that they would be such numpties as to take such a risk!!!

So in summary, I think that the vaccine is probably safe.....though I also think that if you don't take it, you will probably be ok too.

Dor the record - I'm getting it - I know (for a fact) that stress can subtly impact the neurological development of my unborn child (I did my PhD in this area so feel quite strongly about it), so personally for myself, I would feel calmer knowing I am protected.

Good luck to all of you with your choices and please try to stay calm, despite the fact that this is a trying time!!!!

Hi, I heard on the radio on the way home today that they are extending the vaccine to under 5's......this may be rubbish, but thought I'd add !!

Agree with you on all above, my thought was that you hear about how the pregnant women who end up very ill (not necessarily in ICU) are the ones who waited over 3 days to get anti virals, so I would like to think women would be straight on the phone should they have symptoms, but this brings that debate to the forefront !! you can't win. I vote for men to have the babies!!!!

My doctor said that if I caught it now, I'd most probably be fine (26 weeks) but if I caught it at 36 weeks, its likely to be a very different story, and who wants to be ill in late pregnancy !!

 

[tonique]

Hello there, just wanted to give some factual figures from France, I dont know whether flu is spreading as fast as expected or less but it is worrying me a bit:

More than 1 million and a half people have already been infected, and today 150 schools are closed. The number of people deceased has doubled last week, as well as vaccination- no good information on details of groups of people.
Out of the 200 000 people vaccinated with Pandemrix in France so far, one pregnant woman in her 38th week had very bad news 2 days later as she developped flu- I know positive info is preferred but I thought facts could also help make our minds up.
All this info is on the official french website-in case you want to check it, they publish a report on side effects of vaccins and antivirals every week, there is only a french version- the government agency is called afssaps and the report is on the first page: Surveillance des effets indésirables des antiviraux et des vaccins

A pick for swine flu is expected end of November, whilst the pick for seasonal flu is usually December-January.
It is a very hard decision to make...good luck to us all

 

[Carmela]

...
Dor the record - I'm getting it - I know (for a fact) that stress can subtly impact the neurological development of my unborn child (I did my PhD in this area so feel quite strongly about it), so personally for myself, I would feel calmer knowing I am protected.
...

What scares me a lot is - while thinking that we are protected, are we really?
I read and heard that "Safety and effectiveness of the H1N1 vaccine have not been established in pregnant women, nursing mothers or children less than 4 years of age." To me this doesn't guarantee protection. In fact, nothing that I've already read about the SF vaccine guarantees protection.

 

[mumofboys]

Just because a drug company can't be sued doesn't mean that it wouldn't be absolutely RUINED if it came to light that a vaccine they had created damaged hundreds of thousands of people - who would ever trust them again.....even if the drug company managed to pass the buck and place the blame on the WHO or the government, the mud would still stick......it would be an almighty mess and a risk that I don't think the government of the drug companies would risk it. There is no precedent for such a scandal in recent history (and thalidomide doesn't count as the government weren't pushing the drug...it was a "nice to have" to combat morning sickness)

As for all the David Icke stuff - well if the government wasn't to kill us all off then they will get us all in the end and the jab is the least of our worries!!!

 

[EmmaDueInFeb]

Just because a drug company can't be sued doesn't mean that it wouldn't be absolutely RUINED if it came to light that a vaccine they had created damaged hundreds of thousands of people - who would ever trust them again.....even if the drug company managed to pass the buck and place the blame on the WHO or the government, the mud would still stick......it would be an almighty mess and a risk that I don't think the government of the drug companies would risk it. There is no precedent for such a scandal in recent history (and thalidomide doesn't count as the government weren't pushing the drug...it was a "nice to have" to combat morning sickness)

As for all the David Icke stuff - well if the government wasn't to kill us all off then they will get us all in the end and the jab is the least of our worries!!!

And I'm sure they'd be a bit more sneaky about it, like contaminating Greggs sausgage rolls yum !

 

[EternalRose]

What I dont understand is, why Baxter International were able to file a patent for a H1N1 vaccination over a year ahead before the outbreak in Mexico? Its all so confusing to me

 

[JessiHD]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1226704/GPs-bigger-bonuses-meet-swine-flu-jab-targets.html

I dont know about anyone else, but this just angers me! Why are GP's getting incentives to cash in, at a time like this

I think it's less about GPs cashing in and more about the DoH using the carrot/stick to persuade GPs to promote the vaccines when they are not really comfortable about it. From what I gather from the BMJ, doctors themselves are pretty pissed off about it. This is a clear conflict of interest when GPs are being asked by patients whether they should take the vaccine or not, which needs to be clearly stated when obtaining consent from patients.

 

[AimeeM]

I agree with Mervs Mum. On the whole this thread has been really helpful with people providing factual information based on research they have done via sources like doctors, midwives, consultants etc. All which can help us come to a decision at this difficult time. There are conspiracy theories about so many things but on this subject it is too close to home and we are talking about the health of our babies here!

Yes we are and i am sure this is why eternal rose is looking into all these 'conspiracy theories' here, to be as informed as possible as to make the best decision for herself and the health of her baby. Theories or not i think we need to look at all angles.

 

[EternalRose]

I agree with Mervs Mum. On the whole this thread has been really helpful with people providing factual information based on research they have done via sources like doctors, midwives, consultants etc. All which can help us come to a decision at this difficult time. There are conspiracy theories about so many things but on this subject it is too close to home and we are talking about the health of our babies here!

So the fact that baxter international filed for a patent for the swine flu vaccination over a year before the mexican outbreak is conspiracy and not factual? I am also thinking about the health of by baby too, and to be honest I think its very unfair that because a few of us may have looked at this swine flu topic from a different perspective, we are getting shot down or told its rubbish. Its like there is only one view on this thread, and if you dont like it shut up.

 

[Luella123]

Each to their own. I would prefer not to base such an important decision on the rantings if David Iyke and conspiracy theories. It is all confusing enough as it is. I guess we each decide which sources we trust.

 

[Mervs Mum]

Oh I know what you meant when you used the term crack pot, I still thought my reply about not smoking crack was quite fitting. Anyway, nothing else left to say now is there.

Enlighten me then please?

I really cant be bothered

You need to be because your implication offends me in much the way my apparent comparison of you and my OHs friend offends you.

 

[saffy1978]

What I dont understand is, why Baxter International were able to file a patent for a H1N1 vaccination over a year ahead before the outbreak in Mexico? Its all so confusing to me

WTF? I didn't know that! How did they know an outbreak was gonna happen? x

 

[EternalRose]

What I dont understand is, why Baxter International were able to file a patent for a H1N1 vaccination over a year ahead before the outbreak in Mexico? Its all so confusing to me

WTF? I didn't know that! How did they know an outbreak was gonna happen? x

Exactly, my point!! How can you plan for an outbreak on a mexican farm?

 

[Mervs Mum]

What I dont understand is, why Baxter International were able to file a patent for a H1N1 vaccination over a year ahead before the outbreak in Mexico? Its all so confusing to me

WTF? I didn't know that! How did they know an outbreak was gonna happen? x

The way these companies work is that they take a strain of flu and try to predict how it will mutate. They make lots of different variations (dozens) and then patent then all, hoping their company will get lucky and have the one that fits that particular strain. It's how they have the seasonal flu jab ready BEFORE the season really starts.

 

[saffy1978]

So basically we're putting our lives, and the lives of our unborn child, in the hands of these money grabbing companies that are just hoping to 'get lucky'?

 

[Mervs Mum]

I suppose you could look at it for a negative point of view and see it that way but ultimately they only make the money if they get it right and save vulnerable people from suffering All the other money spent on the other variations that dont get used, is gone.

I guess you can look at it from either angle. They are big business but would you say that about them coming up with new cancer drugs?

 

[kermie219]

So basically we're putting our lives, and the lives of our unborn child, in the hands of these money grabbing companies that are just hoping to 'get lucky'?

They've been doing that for years and years in the states! All they care abou is money at the end of the day!

 

[EternalRose]

So basically we're putting our lives, and the lives of our unborn child, in the hands of these money grabbing companies that are just hoping to 'get lucky'?

They've been doing that for years and years in the states! All they care abou is money at the end of the day!

Kermie, have you ever watched the programme " sicko ", omg I was so shocked!! xx

 

[kermie219]

So basically we're putting our lives, and the lives of our unborn child, in the hands of these money grabbing companies that are just hoping to 'get lucky'?

They've been doing that for years and years in the states! All they care abou is money at the end of the day!

Kermie, have you ever watched the programme " sicko ", omg I was so shocked!! xx

never seen it! But to be honest nothing a government does would surprise me! not ever! If that's what it's about!

 

[EternalRose]

So basically we're putting our lives, and the lives of our unborn child, in the hands of these money grabbing companies that are just hoping to 'get lucky'?

They've been doing that for years and years in the states! All they care abou is money at the end of the day!

Kermie, have you ever watched the programme " sicko ", omg I was so shocked!! xx

never seen it! But to be honest nothing a government does would surprise me! not ever! If that's what it's about!

It was looking at the healthcare system in the states, and how the big CEO were cashing in from health insurance policies that had a list of medical complaints from here to australia that patients couldnt claim for, and they showed CCTV footage of patients being dumped in the street by ambulances if they couldnt afford health care, it was an eye opener.